I mostly agree with your findings on this camera. I have had it now for three months or so and also own the A1. If this camera would’ve been available before purchasing the A1, I would’ve definitely chosen it over the A1. The main reason I purchased this camera was due to focus bracketing because I do a lot of macro work. I normally keep the camera in mechanical shutter with electronic first curtain shutter enabled. Having said that, this camera produces some outstanding images. As far as photographing people, I have never seen anything come close to the focus abilities of this Camera. In fact, in a lot of areas it is better than the A1
Great video, thanks for sharing your experience! A classic bird photography trick with Sony cameras is to set up the AF-ON button for one AF mode and the AEL button for another one. On my A9, I use the AF-ON button for tracking with the smallest focus point, and the AEL button for wide non-tracking. Used together, they sort out most of the issues of the camera focusing on the completely wrong thing.
Great video. I have the Sony a1 and the a7rv and have been using both to photograph Barn Swallows in flight. These birds will test any autofocus system to the max. I would completely agree with you about the a7rv bird recognition autofocus. When it nails it then it does it well but it's not precise enough. No af system will be perfect but I think the "artificial intelligence" side of it is its achilles heal ironically. it will recognise some birds as birds but not others and I think this adversely affects its ability to lock focus at times. when photographing Swallows it sometime just doesn't recognise them as birds whatever distance yet when a Crow flies past it will instantly recognise that as a bird . My a1 on the other hand while obviously having eye detect for birds primarily looks for "subject" movement and will lock on much quicker to anything it perceives is moving. Im not suggesting the a1 is 100% accurate all the time and both a1 and a7rv get caught out with birds in front of fussy backgrounds at a distance but there is lot going on so a lot to expect the cameras to get this right. In every other area I have tested the subject recognition the a7rv is extremely good. People, animals, trains, cars all good but perhaps this is because there is less combinations of shapes for the AI to work out. Birds seem to come in all shapes, sizes etc and dont necessarily have a stereotypical look because of the way they can fly, contort and move around which is less normal bird looking. Hopefully Sony can refine the AI autofocus a bit and improve it as it certainly has a lot of potential.
I really enjoyed this review. I've been thinking about giving Sony a whirl just to use that awesome 200-600 lens and the A1 is just too expensive for my usage. The A7rV ticks a lot of boxes, but a lot of the A7R series cameras haven't played nice with the 200-600 so was really great to see a professionals experience with that combo! Looking forward to your next release!
I use this camera with 200 600 and I can assure you this combo has nothing to do with previous A7R models, it plays in another championship. I also have R5 with 100 500 and the file experience, with 61mpx and without a moiré filter, is really different. Also, AF never seen in 7R series until now. Canon has better burst of course, but this new Sony AI based AF compensates the 10fps. Similar results (more than brilliant in both case), but with same AF catch/right freezing, Sony’s sensor will bleed your eyes. I’m talking about bif. Hope my bad English helped your doubts.
I have had own all of the A7R models apart first the very first one and the one to avoid with the 200-600 is the mk4 it really isn’t good but the v5 is very good. You need to use wide tracking for bird in flight and use spot tracking otherwise setup back buttons to switch between for speed. If you adjust the responsive eye detection in the bird setting it will stick more. Don’t use silent shutter use mechanical for birds and the results are great. It will pick up eye focus from 90ft easily. I think the mk5 is what the mk4 should have been and the increase in pixels wasn’t dealt will very well and gave the mk4 problems with the 200-600. I’m very happy with using this mk5 with bird photos and it is a game changer from the mk4. I have shot peregrines and white tail sea eagles with it without any problems.
Great video, I actually own this combo, the biggest thing I've struggled with using this combo is birds at longer distances. I can get sharp in focus photos at short, medium distances but it struggles real bad at longer distances. Large birds perched on trees over 100 yards are nearly always out of focus despite the focus indicator telling me I've hit focus. I thought this was a lens issue but maybe it's a camera issue.
You're the only reviewer who doesn't falsely praise the Sony cameras. You review the camera for what it is unlike other youtubers who get paid to say nice things despite the downfalls.
Awesome video and loved you sharing your real world experience rather than just giving numbers! I can't help wondering what the AI sensitivity and narrow/wide settings would do at longer distances and if adjusting those can help acquiring more focus hits at those distances
@@WILDALASKA I had to come back to tell you, I completely agree with your findings. I tested it over the weekend and was disappointed to the point where I found my A7RIII with spot focus would probably have done a better job for birds, especially over longer distances. I am so disappointed with how some YT channels promote it's AI AF capabilities as if it's doing some kind of magic, where I found it to work just OK. Thanks for being truthful and stating the facts!
11:54 Great review! We’re you shpoting electronic shutter or mechanical for that bird shot at 11:54? Auto ISO? The colours and depth are gorgeous! Thanks!
I also have focus set up a little differently, I shoot wide back button with eye detect set to lens button, even at 600f4 my DOF at the distances I shoot is always about 10-15 feet so I don't think the eye detect is very critical. I also have a toggle preset that lets me switch to "small spot" for when branches and other obstructions are present, just my 2 cents bud, happy shooting
Went out to a Egret rookery this April using several lenses 200-600, 24-240, 24-70 f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8. All did great and as with distance I was from a 100 yds to 200 yds from a rookery tree and the further shore. Even using the 24-70 and at 150 yds (very small in eye piece) the birds would be focused when cropped to 2000. In the trees at 600mm a box would come up even a elongated for a adult and baby focus would be on eye and all was in focus as well as several in the frame, about four nest could be used as the money shot with perfect focus on a baby eyes/mother eye. The key is using the +/- EV to negative EV to get rid of zebras ( set at 109) giving higher SS and low ISO getting great detail of feather at 150 yds./600mm with multi nest in the image but a crop of down to even 2000 were perfect with babies eyes sharp like it was eye AF but just a medium square area of one nest. A couple of flyers using the 600mm at 150 yds (small in frame) cropped to 2000 had sharp eye and limb it was carrying for nest and with - 3EV on dail for zebra (faster shutter) got great feather detail with less whites blow out just bring out shadows in post also even the 200-600 has great Bokeh in unfocused area set at f/10, just super WOW, and my second try in a few years at birds. Greatest camera with any lens, last time was with A7iii with white pelicans '19.
I have the A7iii and thinking of upgrading for bird photos and videos. I wonder if you considered an A7iv, and why did you go for the 7rv? Thanks for sharing.
For birds (A7iv) I always use small or medium spot tracking. Placing the square on the head of the bird and the camera locks. Either catching the eye or the head allowing me to freely compose as I like. I only use wide for BIF.
You also get 100% auto focus across the entire censor. Instead of only 86% coverage!!! My shooting preference is zone focus, unless the birds are flying in open space. I will shift to wide!
I would agree with you. I’ve had this camera for about a week and have been using it with 100-400GM. Focusing is good for BIF but it does struggle with birds further away.
Great video - thank you! Can I check which firmware you were using on the lens and on the body? As I’m wondering if that plays a part in the issue you had at longer distance bif
Solid summary of what this camera can do, and cannot do. The rolling shutter is what eventually had me return my A7R V - what you showed matches my experience exactly and for my wildlife shooting, it's a non-starter. It also impacted my street photography (street musicians especially if they got animated). Regarding the AF, there may be ways to set it up that helps with the problems you saw. What you observed with tracking for birds on water is very typical - sony AF gets tricked by any reflection on water - but if you focus with a non-tracking mode it will find those birds and their eyes without issue. In sony, eye-AF is disconnected from tracking (you can do eye-AF with continuous AF, non tracking) so it's much better to set-up the camera with a way to disengage tracking instantly for situations like what you ran into. My AF ON button has AF with tracking, my AEL button has the same AF mode without tracking - both with eye-AF activated - and I use C1 to scroll through a short list of pre-selected AF modes. So if I use C1 to select AF spot Large, AF ON button will be spot Large tracking and AEL will be spot large non-tracking automatically. I just shift my thumb whether I want to track or not, depending on whether the AF struggles or not. That solves 90% of situations. No AF is perfect, this one is not Sony's best for wildlife (the A1 is better still), but considering how slow this sensor is, it's impressive already. I can't wait to see what happens when they pair that AF with the A1's sensor and a new processor.
I used tracking and non tracking with subject detect. The af didn't get confused by a reflection it was hitting areas no where near the ducks. It was searching near and far and you can see it in the EVF footage. But in closer it had no issues. Ill be checking out the A1 soon
Why not use the mechanical shutter to get rid of rolling shutter. It seems for panning, moving subjects and frame rate mechanical is the way to go. Anything static use the electronic shutter if so desired.
@@ayfj4572 looks like you didn't watch the whole video;) I stated early on that the electronic was a no go due to rolling shutter and the FPS was better. And you should only shoot mechanical on the A7R5
@@WILDALASKA I did watch the whole video and I understood it. I was not commenting on what you had said. I was commenting on the thread starter that returned the R5 camera because of rolling shutter, a problem that can easily be solved with mechanical shutter.
Hi, would u definitely recommend the S ArV over Z8 for big game photography (mostly red deers, wild boars, walking foxes) ? mostly from a hide, mosty slower panning. I had lots of difficulties with d850+500pf Af inconsistency and lost my trust in Nikon (however it was my favourite brand). now I tend to turn to Sony. The speed of mechanical shutter would be ok for me I guess, was getting used to d850. thanks Zsolt, Hungary
oh not even close. the AF on the Z8 blows the a7tv out of the water. the d850 vs the z8 is apples and oranges.plus the 500 pf colors are more flat. use an aspherical lens for even better colors over the pf.
This was a fantastic video. Absolutly honest and complete. I guess I'll stick with my R5. I love the results and it's easy. Love your laid back style. I also love Alaska. Spent time in Ketchikan and Sitka. What a marvelous state. Be well.
Birds, wildlife, great. Can anyone suggest best camera settings for "Subject Recognition" for action sports like youth gymnastics? Youth ice hockey my Sony a7r II to a7r IVA to a7rV has been inconsistent at best. Upgraded to a7r V for improved subject recognition and tracking. I can't seem to find the right combo of settings for consistent in focus results.
Great video, I'm new to wildlife photography and I recently discovered your channel, I love your reviews and camera tutorials, but above all I love the videos in which you go out to take photos, thank you very much for all the content
Hi Scott, Interesting to see a review of this Sony a7-R5 from the viewpoint of birding, which I didn't see yet from anybody else. Seems like a very good camera, but I'm not gonna drop my R5 to get this one instead. Really love your waxwing images, mostly the one on 28:46 👍
Doesn't matter when it's in full electronic as the readout speed of the sensor is going to cause the straight line bends regardless. Only way to make it not happen is to be in mechanical shutter.
Great review- I like your folksy delivery too :) I’ve had this model a few months and I found similar distance-focusing problems, particularly just before sunset. In my case I was tracking a barge far off the Caribbean coast, & I couldn’t get focus for the life of me! But sports is my main $$ , and it has awesome focus (i use the 100-400 f/4.5-5.6).
the desktop setup is Ifootqge Cobra 2 and the beach setup is smallrig Ap-10 with a Brno GH5C gimbal. Both should be in the descriptions of any of the videos for purchase
that bending and warping on your horizontal pans was gnarly! i have an a7iv and have never experienced that, maybe its bc you didn't use the stabilization switch for panning motions?
lens was set to pan stab. Its just what happens with that low a sensor readout speed. We even used 2 different A7rV's testing it also and 4 different serious Sony shooters looking at it. The Canon R7 will bend also but not as bad a hook on straight lines. It has a hook but not as bad as the sensor on the A7rV. If you are in electronic shutter and pan with a bit of speed with any straight vertical line you will get this bend. 100% of the time
Thank you for posting this video. I have been looking for one like this for months! I have been shooting wildlife and BIF for 5 years with my Sony A7R3 and 200-600, with reasonable success, but was thinking about upgrading to the new A7R5 in hopes of getting a better hit rate. After actually seeing evidence of someone using this camera for birds, I found it very disappointing. I doesn't seem much better than what I am used to with my A7R3. I know there are probably dozens of different setting combinations that could maybe improve that in the A7R5, but without experimenting with the camera for days, it is hard to tell. Yes, I know that the A1 is probably the ultimate Sony camera for the job, but here in Canada it costs $9,600 CDN (including tax) which is insane. The A92 and the A1 are both due for a refresh sometime soon too as they are getting a bit old and are missing a lot of the new features that the A7R5 has. I hope to have a chat with a Sony rep that is visiting a local camera store in a few days. Thanks again.
I’m with you on that. I have the A7RIII and tried the A7RV and while specific subject tracking is incredible (ie. Anticipating where someone’s head is - animal or human) but for more complex tracking (ie. Sports) where there are multiple subjects it could lock onto, it was worse than the A7RIII.
@@RichardoBrit Thanks for the feedback. One concern is that the readout speed on the higher megapixel sensor may make the blackout periods longer. The A7Rv is generally faster though and with more intelligent focusing so it might be better. I see on Sonyalpharumors that there are more rumors coming tomorrow on the A9iii. I would hate to to lose the high megapixel count, for it's cropping ability, if they don't bump the count on the A9iii.
@@PhilT993 agree, that was one of the other disappointments - it had one of the slowest sensor readout speeds creating slow fps and high rolling shutter and cropped 4k and 8k. Would love a higher megapixel A9iii as I love the cropping ability of my A7Riii
The camera is back at the store, but I will be doing the A1 soon and will do a set up off that camera. And I may rent the camera again to show how I set it up sometime.
amazing vdeo. i have a few questions. i would like to do some bear by water photography where is the best location for that and which lens do you recommended. 200-600 or 100-400mm
Great and honest review. I also have experienced your water af problem, in which the green spots search on the bottom water area. Then I tried different AF settings (AF priority, different stickiness to the subject, animal body part, pre-burst off, etc) and the situation got really better. But my thoughts head to an AI deep learning improvements. For me, the camera learned itself to not focus the bottom area on water. But is just my thought, the important is that I have now better results, no matter why. As I wrote down in the comments, ‘low’ burst rate is compensated by the new AI deep learning AF. 10fps are even too many to analize at home 😂
From your review seems like the focus system gives high priority to grabbing the eye which could be great for large and close birds in flight or fast action but it struggles to focus when the eye is not clearly visible. I feel like the Canon R6 AF locks to the body first and then tries to find the eye which it fails to do many times in fast action. Pros and cons as always; thanks for sharing.
Everyone really discounts this camera as being unsuitable for wildlife due to slow sensor readout, blackout and slow frame rate. Yet here you are showing that it totally works and can take great pictures. It's a reflection on the state of camera tech that this gets viewed badly for BIF; so many amazing cameras out there with machine gun fast frame rates, awesome AF and so many bells and whistles that it's easy to forget how awestruck I was as a youngster nearly 3 decades ago, getting a 640 X 480 newfangled digital camera that held about 40 pictures, took one picture per hour (it was a little faster to be fair haha) and I'm not even sure it had autofocus!
I tried all the different focus box sizes and I believe I stated that in the video (been a while). I also met with a few of my pro Sony shooters also to go over their settings and such after my initial testing.
Hi Im new to Sony. In photo mode: If I select (AFC) and (focus area tracking) and then half press my shutter I get a green square that tracks with my camera in a horizontal position. But when I orientate the camera to verticle the green tacking box stays in the middle and doesnt track. Can anyone explain how I get to track in verticle.
For what it's worth, your issue with warp using a 200-600 and a A7RV has been mitigated by a firmware update. I too used it in that fashion and find NO warp when not whip panning in electronic shutter. So my experiences with shooting birds in ES and the 200-600 has provided perfect results without distortions. Also your settings were clearly NOT optimum for flying birds. I use this combo for birds at a great distance away and it locks right on their heads and stays put. I do NOT use your large wide open setting which would indeed cause focus to wander.
Thanks for the info, but no the rolling shutter on this camera (and I was using the latest firmware and even used a 600mm f4 from a friend to test) is still rough. And I used the settings provided by some serious and awarded Sony shooters in my area. The A7rV has issues at distance. These same shooters had the same conclusion on this model. We talked about this camera and many Sony pros and cons. These reviews are honest and not fanboy'ed in any way. It's just the way the cameras are. Canon, Nikon, and Sony reviews will be 'this is what the camera does and doesn't do well'. Firmware WILL NOT fix sensor readout speed, thus you will always have rolling shutter same as the Canon R7 and anything else in that 30+ms readout speeds. Other than that and the bad EVF lag this camera rocks. A1 is next on the test bench in a couple weeks which is more wildlife centered. Happy Shooting.
Great review! I've been shooting with A7RV + Sigma 150-600 Sport since its release and have noticed that maybe more often than not the autofocus is not "nailing" the shot. Even with relatively stationary subjects where eye tracking is locked on, the focus is just slightly off with the occasional perfect tac sharp focus. I've updated camera/lens firmware. I've tried the various focus/tracking settings (leaning on flexible spot tracking as I too experience the inconsistency with shooting "Wide" or "Zone" tracking). I've tried various steady shot settings. I've tried shooting at higher than necessary shutter speeds etc... I am relatively new to wildlife specific photography and only have experience with Sony system so I do not have a good comparison for reference. I just feel like in certain situations when light is good and subject is relatively still, and the focus is showing that it is locked on to the eye (in playback), that the focus should be perfect. I'm not saying at that focus is terribly off, but you can tell when perfect and when it's slightly off. Ultimately, I would just like to know if this is normal or if I have a potential gear issue.
I don't know about the sigma lens on Sony myself. the 200-600 performed really well. I would suggest maybe renting another lens and seeing if you still see the issues.
@@Clayton_White I think it is probably the lens. I have the same one and have similar issues. Im not using the same camera but I get a lot of slightly soft shots and then a few sharp ones, I think maybe the lens can’t focus fast enough.
Thanks, Scott. I'm not in the market for a new camera, R5 shooter, but I always enjoy reviews of other brand cameras. I was really surprised about the sensor read out speed of this camera. I have an R7 as well. I would think for the price of this Sony camera, the readout would be better to help with rolling shutter. Also surprising was the fps comparing mechanical to electronic. I've never heard of electronic being less, but that does make sense considering the photos are 61 mp. It feels like Sony is encouraging mechanical over electronic. How is the buffer on this camera? Your Cedar Waxwing photos are stellar. Very beautiful!
Buffer is ok. You can shoot forever just it slows down from 7 to about 4fps. This camera is a pure hybrid camera for landscape, people, and wildlife. The reason to revise was the autofocus is their most advanced. The A1 is their wildlife shooter. I really wanted to understand how Sony's AF worked and how good it was so I could speak to it honestly when talking about cameras, etc. The A1 I will be reviewing hopefully in April. Depends on when the R8 drops this month on timing as I will be doing a lot of R8 content im sure.
The biggest issue I've got with the Sony e-mount range is that everyone says it's an "open mount", but not a single 300 2.8 for it exists. No affordable good lenses (like prime telephotos) exist for emount, and the adapted lenses perform really poorly. I wanted to like Sony but their ecosystem for wildlife is exclusively for rich people. Canon's R range can adapt all good older prime telephotos and they perform amazingly well.
What a shame it doesnt have the "pro capture" of Olympus or the Canon similar system..then it would of been a much better wildlife camera. Panning well you need the A1 to fix that or A9.
Scott, great review as always. This camera seems to be a stopgap, released to compete with the R5, but not quite reaching its potential. Maybe a firmware update will fix the auto-focus but from what I've read, Sony is not very good with those.
A7RV is in the same price point range, but don't think it is directly competing with the R5. Though a lot of people compare it to areas it isn't meant for.
Nice job, I have experience with the R4, I have 25k in Sony gear and mostly shoot with an A9 and 600F4. I shoot 10k images a month on average and after 120k images with the R4 I came to a few conclusions. #1 the 200-600 is not ideal with that camera, even Sony lists it at "partially" compatible. #2 shoot above 1/2000th for BIF and turn IBIS "OFF". I was able to get about 80% hit rate but shooting at such high rez is just very challenging. ANY minor user error and you will PAY LOL. I would also recommend more than a week to really figure out the nuances of that camera. If someone asked me I would say get an A-1 and personally I wont buy any cameras going forward w/o a stacked sensor. My 5 year old A9(original) is just nearly perfect but cropping is limited, Again good job nice presentation, very much enjoyed 👍👍
Here's an idea for AI autofocus. Use the phone as well. Especially since they'll be getting AI chips of their own. Here's how it would work You'd type in a prompt of what you wanted to focus on. Then you'd use neural networks - LLM / Unet / grounding dino to find the item based on the description. I'm just throwing out terms here. I only know some of NN. Anyways, the app would get the coordinates of hte item to track based on your prompt, and then send that info back to the camera. The camera can take over at that point - just as if you touched that item on the screen, but touching isn't so easy with a moving object. That's where entering a prompt comes in...
I bought the A7CR but my wife stole it on me. I then bought this SONY A7RV and I’m learning the menu language now. I’ve been on Canon for 40+ years, and when Canon announced their R1 at 24 mp like my R3 Canon, I bought these SONY’s with 61mp 😁 for a change. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the small size. Especially after lugging around my Canon R3 with the RF 600 f4.0 lens attached 😯
Color Science is good on all 3 major brands and you just have to shift your edit style at start a hair to get them 'right' for you. Nikons for myself type is pretty close right out of camera. Canon and Sony I have to adjust it a hair. I feel on Sony the Contrast is a bit high and if you touch the clarity slider at all in Lightroom you will see it fast. So the editing took me a little bit to get used to that higher contrast in the images and the reds were bit hotter in Sony. Canons I sometimes need to adjust the white balance in very good light on the magentas sometimes. So I think for my style its Nikon, Canon, and then Sony. But its VERY close on all 3. Its hard to eyeball a picot and tell it came from which camera sometimes , its that close.
Color science on this camera is much better than the predecessor sony(s). My girlfriend is much happier about that. Still, I'm not in love with the colors of the sony 200-600, especially on the water, sky, the color is just almost unreal. My girlfriend decided to try the sigma 150-600 sport, and even if slightly slower than the sony, colors rendering are much better. I'm sure that if you could have test it with the 600 f4 you would be happier than you are already Thanks for the video review
The lens itself is not going to change the AF in the camera. It will affect the hit rate though. I was happy with the colors and the camera really. and the af performed well in most situations unless I had something farther out and smaller in frame. Thanks for the info on the lenses also
@@WILDALASKA true about the AF attitude of the camera. I meant about the colors, sorry I did not specify it. I'm sure that the glasses mounted in the 600 are definetly better in color rendering than its little brother 200-600. I'm exploring as well the other brands (I'm nikon shooter), and because those nikon colors, I find difficult to change permanently to another brand. Is there any chance I can download a raw file from a couple of shots you made with Z9+canon lense (you use a 500mm f4 if I'm not wrong). Would be very interesting to see in deep the results. Ciao and thanks again
Your experience is similar to mine. The autofocus is not perfect for birds. I find it loses birds behind trees or a branch more often than I'd expect. I find myself fighting the autofocus for birds more often than not. So far I've mostly shot around the forest preserves near home, and the trees will confuse it quite often. I'm assuming this will get better over time as the Sony engineers are able to train the AI models over time. I'm also having trouble with my 200-600 at 600mm and 6.3, so it could be attributed to that as well. I tested still subjects at 6.3 using a tripod and bluetooth remote and the images are like watercolors they're so soft.
I still have yet to make the jump to mirrorless as mine is more a hobby. I hope that by the time I make that jump maybe canon and the third parties will have played nice with each other
Great informative video! I think the auto focus is not on par for that level of camera, but really think that 200-600 is a fair price. Rented r7 and 100-500 the auto focus was next level and thanks used your AF button layout. Take care
Specialized camera for stills, expensive... what about wildlife and sport photography Sony mind : let's not worry about exploiting the processor speed and the sensor quality, we won't need to release major firmware update if we do, keep the readout speed low, even slower than what we did in 2017 (a7R III can do better 10fps with 8 times slower processor) ... but let's raise the price, don't stop the a7R III production yet people buy this for sunny day portraits, architecture and landscape only... and the screen, for a1 and z8 price frankly it is disappointing
