I agree 😊😌🫶🏿 Dude I wouldn’t change a thing maybe 🤔 ride weight, play with the ratio but in all honesty it’s PERFECT!!! I hope you tagged Honda race team in this thread, I would definitely give you good recognition, my friend like bravo 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
When Honda held the type r challenge in Gran Turismo 7 the car was set and unable to be changed in any kind of way from what it was. There were probably 50-100 drivers that dominantly beat the real world time. But when you watch the videos there were near track limit violations left and right literally that would get a person removed from the track. There was a ton of awd slides, or neutral drifts whichever you prefer and insane short cuts over curbs through corners.
I beat the time without doing anything crazy but the car was not setup well. Tons of understeer due to no fuel weight and the stock diff was way too open. You had a front splitter and different wheels to help but Polyphony could’ve set it up a lot better.
@@felipelima5505 Me? No I didn’t beat the time during the challenge. I beat the time I think for the old record but the car was pushing way more power when I beat the type r record. My car was at 430 hp I think
I'm surprised that Honda used a left-hand drive version car for their attempt on a clockwise track. This could explain the 2 tenths difference you achieved with your advantageous weight distribution. 🤪 Great lap and video - remarkable how similar the laps are.
@zalu It was firmly tongue in cheek, but in theory if there are more right-hand corners than left, more weight on the right side of the car should be beneficial. Sidecar motorcycles at the Isle of Man TT have one guy hanging out left or right to aid cornering. I assume that any advantage in a car around the Ring must be negligible as the Honda engineers are much smarter than me.
Great content mate.. You need more than the subs you have! Good vid. I would like to have seen what the stock time for the Civic would have been without modifications.
As a fl5 owner and a gt7 gamer. I tried every evening on nur. Thx 4 ur video, it explained a lot for me. 7:50 now, trying to be better. face-blue-smiling
When worried about final drive ratio, I never heard you mention tire size… Sure, changing ratios is as easy as clicking a button, on GT, but not in real life. I don't have stock size tires for my car. I run tall narrow tires in winter (195/65-16), & wider shorter tires in summer (225/40-18). Changing tires is the easiest way to mess with final drive ratios! I could make changes beyond that, too, but that is my daily-driver. (perhaps that is what Honda did)
Yes I wanted to do the lap in VR with no HUD to make sure I wasn’t pacing myself to match the lap. I wanted to to be as natural as possible. So I didn’t know sector times or final lap time until the lap was complete.
one thing we're not taking in consideration is where the lap ends - the real life version ends right after the turn, while Gran Turismo ends at the end of that little straight. Basically if we match those two, you set around a 7:40 or 7:41
I think you made a mistake putting a dog box sequential transmission in. Your shifting is far faster than the original because of it. There is a customizable manual transmission option available in the game. Should have used that one
If you look when I show the tuning page you’ll see I used the fully customizable manual option. Yes it’s slightly faster but no way around that besides doing manual shifting, but without auto rev that would be slower.
This is finally it. You can no longer call GT7 a "simcade" anymore. I have known full blown "sim racing" games from the mid 2010's which physics have aged WORSE than GT7. And whatever is at the top these days are all seperated by such marginal nuances you can compare it to a dialect difference of "tomato, tomato".
The way I see it, Gran Turismo is realistic-if we assume a cool, clear, calm day with a nice, grippy track surface. I find it worthy of note that when there is a significant discrepancy between the game and reality (this also applies for Assetto Corsa), it’s because the real life lap times were set in either hot/windy weather (which can cost more than 2 seconds per lap), on a low grip or dusty track (especially common with street circuits), or with old cars where tires were significantly less grippy than modern tires (I think the RH tires in GT7 are representative of late 80s/early 90s qualifying tires, RM tires are representative of mid-late 90s to mid-2000s slicks, and RS tires are representative of modern racing slicks).
@@calvinstraveldreamsuhm no, GT7 tires are based on the era of the car you are using If you are using the Porsche 917 you will have tires with the characteristics of that era, if instead you use the Toyota Hypercar you will have different tires characteristics And I'm not the one saying it, Polyphony Digital said it in one of the videos they released before the game came out
I agree that the "simcade" label is stupid because the genre of racing games is a spectrum, and it doesn't make sense to put them in neat little boxes. However. Gran Turismo is designed to be easily playable on a controller and to appeal to more than just the hardcore audience, because it used to be one of Sony's best selling flagships. Even a few old sims from the mid-2000s like GTR2 have more detailed physics. I agree that the most hardcore sims are generally comparable in terms of realism, but Gran Turismo is quite a bit more forgiving and less nuanced than those sims.
Well, for me, it doesn't matter if honda changed the car a little. Except for the final drive, there's nothing so special about it or at least nothing that almost every one cant do. It only shows how to me how capable this car is. Everyone forgets that this car beats very healthy, modified, and striped Renaut Megan with 0.5 sec and its wast record wit huge difference. Check the times for the old format of the trach, and you'll be surprised.
i dont know what you guys have with the gear ratio. On the records its 235kmh at 5500 rpm. Thats exactly the value i can see on the clip of the guy on the internet.
Your Heel-Toe-Heel downshifting allowed to keep more average speed through slower sections. You were roughly keeping 6-10KpH extra in the corners compared to the IRL run, which added up in the final time. Same goes with your cleaner run through Karussell and less use of the brakes in unnecessary sections compared to the IRL run.
The problem with indicated speed is that you have the game’s sim driven speed, the car speedometer and the data logger GPS speed shown. Depending on when you look at them they can each be 10 kph different. Some points GPS speed is higher than the dash readout and other times it’s 10kph lower. Really only way to compare is visually and there is some difference corner to corner for sure.
@hubblespheres which is why we have a simple physics formula. Distance, Speed, and Time. It'd take a bit of time, but using reference points on the track, we can see what time it takes for each of you to go through certain sections, giving us a distance and time value to calculate speed. Of course, depending on the complexity or broad range of distance, it may be more suitable to attain average speed rather than precise speed.
The GT7 animation for shifting gears is a little weird. Obviously its hard for the game to predict what you're going to do, but its really obvious its just reacting to the input. The amount of the lap the fictitious driver spends one handed steering is ridiculous.
I told all those honda fanboys that it is not faster than a bmw supra at the ring. When you compare their laptimes everywhere around the world tracks it is several seconds slower. That's how I always knew something didnt add up to their claims.
My time in the trial full stock and RH did 44.375 you are just your slow for this type of comparisons. Tune car and R.M 44.6 you just don't have the speed mate... You need more km for this comparisons
@@felipelima5505 Honda set the record on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s so you are saying it’s the right tire then? R888 is not a fast tire by the way. I’d say Pilot Sport Cup 2 R or RE-71RS is closer to Sport Soft. But every car is different and depends on tire width which GT7 doesn’t really allow you to control in detail.
I don't even mind if Honda cheated. Everyone "cheats" a little. But I don't see anything wrong in taking a stock car and modifying it slightly to show just how much extra potential there is.
nice,it seemed u were extremely accurate with the gearing, I figure the reason for the lower top end speeds is because u don't have the extra high boost in 5th & 6th gear & gran turismo is coded to simulate different boost for different gear, I don't get why ppl call this a sim-cade when it's so accurate in it lap times, can you do comparison vid for a nurb or any other track, that is 1 to 1 without any tweaking or tuning needed
My 992 911 GT3 comparison I didn’t change anything with the car except medium to Sport soft tires. Almost all cars end up setting their records on a softer tire than what they come with normally.
@@mkldnl GT simulates results, other sims overcomplicate the interface of simulation with less accurate results. It's like a PC in user mode (GT) vs Administrator mode (AC), is user mode any less a PC than admin mode, they both do the same thing. Hiding the interface control of system elements, that The average user doesn't use or need to know doesn't make it a sim-cade, because Arcade means that it exaggerates and fictionalize stuff, which Gran Turismo does not do, that's Forza or NFS territory, GT strives for absolute realism, nothing more, nothing less
@@4thManonCrossThat doesn't make any sense, it's unrealistic beacuse you can replicate the same time so easily, you can't just perfectly replicate a lap that's not how driving works
@@ethanwayne6973 nope it's real, tweaks what only made cause the version of the car Honda used is not in the game, because as some ppl say Honda cheated, and that is the whole premise of the video. Another reason why it's real is because when the cats are exactly the same, Luke with the latest Porsche 911 GT3 RS and no tweaking one thinking is needed the results are still accurate and nearly identical. Btw that Porsche 911 video is also available on this channel
I had a chat with Nestor Girolami (the driver of the record lap) in september 23 about the record attempt. He said it was rainy that day an they had to wait for the right track conditions. The footage shows the 5th attempt and he had some mistakes on that lap like one misshift and the mentioned Karussell. They also had a special alignment to the suspension. You can see it being quite tail happy in the corners. If you look attentive you notice his special driving style to maintain the balance of the car. Also I dont think that Misha Charoudin or any hobby driver can compare to a TCR pro driver on the Nordschleife. Nestor is also a really really nice guy and he is so proud to this spectacular lap and the opportunity to give it a try. So did Honda cheat on the car specs. Probably yes. Did other Manufacturers cheat on the car specs? You can bet on it. Are these lap times important to anybody? Do we consumers buy cars after their Nordschleife lap times? Or is this just marketing? So does the Civic Type R drive good? Oh yes you have no idea unless you take it for a spin by yourself.
"Also I dont think that Misha Charoudin or any hobby driver can compare to a TCR pro driver on the Nordschleife." You wanna bet on that? Mr. Charoudin has a RingTaxi business and is driving pretty much every single day several laps around the Nordschleife with passengers and he IS in fact a race driver as well with a racedrivers license too..... so he can very much compare to a TCR driver, especially on the Ring..... better get your facts before you "think".....
@@320iSTWEdition To say that you overrate him (Misha) would be a massive understatement. He has his little army of fans who are just as delusional as him. I mean he said he would be faster than Lewis Hamilton in the same car. He's that delusional. The guy who keeps crashing all the time because he never learns and remains overconfident and cocky. He's not even good as an amateur and his teenage fans keep comparing him to pro drivers which is laughable. Don't talk about facts because you have no idea what the facts are. Also don't talk about thinking because apparently you're not great at that either.
The problem is that Honda's cheating is very obvious. I bet other manufacturers cheat too, but there is simply no evidence that they do. So it isn't crazy to assume that their cheating is more subtle and has less effect on the end result. I'd still get a Type R over any other hot hatch, but they're so expensive at the moment
Many people would say "try a real Sim" but there is no sim with this car in Oficial or acurate physics, other than mods that look good but nobody asures you than the physics would behave like the real car so GT is the best option here
Finally someone making a comparison video like this who can ACTUALLY drive. Over the years I've seen so many of these types of videos but with drivers who can't drive for shit. Hats off to you, great video, comparison and analysis!
@hubblesphere Hello guys! I’m a Honda shop in California. I believe I know how Honda changed the gear ratio in 5th & 6th gear making them shorter/faster while keeping the parts HONDA not aftermarket. In USA Honda Accord 2.0L Turbo 6 speed has the same transmission as type R fk8 and fl5, except 5th/6th are shorter but use a longer 3.9 final gear. I owned this accord and changed to Type R final gear 4.1 ratio and added LSD. This gave me a better transmission than FK8/FL5. 1-4th gear ratio in my accord matched Fk8 But I now had faster 5th and 6th gear. Here is my video done years ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XeS4yhT5qHk.htmlsi=0wPvKgiWaRItAUSh Since accord had 3.9 final and type r 4.1 final, Honda gave the accord faster 5/6th to make up for the longer final gear. So it make sense Honda was able to use off the shelf Honda gears from USDM accord to mod their FL5 to be faster gears, along with more boost of course.
Having watched the Honda clip prior to this, I knew the real life car was set differently than the version given to us in the game in the Online Time Trial mode, namely the in-game top speed is much less than the real life car's. Of course I didn't go and adjust the car in the same way this video did, but it should be noted that this video can only be a reference, as there were a lot more players who can drive the in-game Online TT version of the car and beat the real life record easily, which means the player's skill level, which is something very hard to measure objectively, is also factored into this side-by-side comparison video.
I wanted to touch on this but cut it for time. I did the time trial and beat the record as well, but should note that car had different wheels in 18”, a front lip and more downforce, no fuel or tire wear and different wind conditions. It was on Sport Hards but everything else played towards a faster lap.
@@hubblesphere wow u really went through so much details. Btw i could only get as close as 2.X seconds from the record. Great job for u for getting there
@@Theyassinovic92 I try to keep it consistent with a 4.5-5.0 m/s west-south-west wind. Afternoon temps around 15 Celsius. That actually gives a bit of a tailwind on the Kesselchen climb and a headwind on the Döttinger Hohe. In testing you can sometimes see standout straight line differences and use wind direction to even them out. Obviously we never know true wind conditions for the real laps. Also cooler temps improve real engine performance which does not seem to change in GT7. Temps only influence grip/tire performance in game it seems.
As a type r owner(fk8 20’) the ratios in game are different (much longer) than IRL. Also, IRL, the car is able to achieve 263kph factory relatively easy, where in gt7 default settings it takes much longer to achieve that speed. Almost like it won’t make it in game to that speed.
Weight doesn’t affect a car’s top speed, only power and drag. The difference is definitely due to the higher boost they were running in 5th and 6th gear as he mentioned himself in the video.
nice lap, you'll be putting the Honda driver out of a job soon. perhaps the last few miles per hour are slight difference in tire pressures? i wonder what the record lap car was using for pressure and if they were nitrogen filled or not
As long as Nords lap record are not being recorded by independent 3rd party. Just take it with a whole grain of salt. Why no one take a step ajudicate this record attempt thing till now?
My FL5 GT7 Ring time, stock with SS tires, is a 7:52. I play in VR too. Not sure how much more time I can cut from this, but the real life FL5 'S Grade' definitely has more modifications that Honda is letting on.
I just ran a 7:51.94 for my first run. Certain I could match it after 5+ runs. I think 7:45 is totally possible all stock, granted I do believe they changed the gearing a tiny bit
Pretty darn good to me. I can imagine GT isn't able to model in the environmental factors like change in wind direction and parts of the track that will act as wind tunnels like standing between tall buildings in a large city so those things will affect the real car more than the virtual one.
Awesome video! I would've talked a BIT more on the Renault Megane, as it was the RS Trophy "R" (similar to the Type R "S Grade") except, everyone calls it cheating when Honda does it... I have to mention from the FL5 Nurburgring record judgment by many: I don't understand the animosity of the few people who say it's cheating. And here's why: For reference, the record set before the FL5 was by the "Renault Megane RS Trophy R" and no one cared when that one “wasn’t stock” and released in limited numbers (about 500) for homologation purposes (If you could call it that). Basically to say: "We released this version to the public, so the record stands". Meanwhile, Honda comes out with the FL5 Type R “S” (also releases it in limited quantities to the public) and everyone calls it cheating… As far as I’m concerned, Renault started with the “not stock” record. And making the Type R "S" version the stock Type R (as in: the one sold as the ONLY Civic Type R available) would be too bare bones for most buyers to bare with no comfort for the normal road. As it is a race car version with many items/functions of comfort stripped and a different gearing that is not suitable for street driving. It's kind of like a double-edged sword: damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not to mention, lots of FL5 owners are switching to the Integra Type S's ADS because they find the ride to be too stiff. So the FL5 broke the record. But I still see people calling it cheating. It makes no sense.
Honda driver shifts gears so leisurely... The game has visual indication for shift but it seems to shift instantly, if thats true then the IRL driver can go faster with a faster shift. the 2 thenths can be down to the IRL shifting vs Game insta shift
two drivers with the same car but different abilities wont ever get the same times. great fuckin driving is how these records are made otherwise they couldnt claim to be.
Trust me, every lap time below 7mins was cheated. The Dodge Viper is the fastest car on the Ring, but the Germans & other foreign brands weren't having it. Imagine having an American built racecar on the throne of your hometrack everytime a new version of itself rolls out.
As someone who messes around a lot with stock/near stock tuning in GT7, the Civic has an usually high level of grip on he sport hards - like they grip pretty much as good as other cars on sport mediums. Could that plus maybe a little bit more horsepower in the track prepped version (due to the boost) be responsible for some of the difference?
Now that was all that was needed, to say that the GT7 is a metric to say which brand cheated. All that remains to be said is that gt7 is more realistic than reality, it is sold as a real driving simulator, which makes the slogan and advertising a farce trying to sell a simcade as a pure simulator.
Bear in mind GT7 has the lap time end further ahead than in real life same for Bathurst. It’s more like some 4.2 seconds quicker in the game. But it’s still really cool how accurate the laps were.
The lap time also starts further ahead. It’s the same distance for both either way. So not 4.2 seconds quicker, just timed from a different point in the lap.
