I’m 67 and waited 30 years to re-enter the bike scene whilst raising kids. Having never had a Harley, and always admiring them, I bought my first one two years ago. Taking some time to figure out what I wanted, and three Harleys later, I’m now on a 2020 Ultra Limited that I bought from an independent retailer, not an HD dealership. It’s my dream bike and I can’t believe I’d ever want something else. And I’ll tell you, I’d never buy a bike from a Harley dealer again. Ever. They have become exceedingly greedy and abusive toward buyers.
Is this why the most popular bike in jap is Harley Davidson .. there is a company in Japan called Trijya that buys new Harley's from Milwaukee , rebadged them with the name Trijya and sells them back to americans for double the money .... There are already Trijya dealerships on the west coast
This is exactly the reason why Ive owned probably 2 dozen bikes in my 55 years and not one of them was a harley. Im just too into the engineering aspect and the capability of bikes. I took my brother's harley for a ride one day after he forced me to and I was shocked at how heavy, lethargic and awkward it was. Far worse then I expected. I was so paranoid at slow speeds that id drop it, felt like I was trying to maneuver a drunk elephant. Having said that, I do really like the way those sporter bikes look. Im guessing theyd handle far better as well.
@@Jojo-o6o6w Harleys have their place. I find low-speed manouvers on an FLH (with the steep head angle) are easy and intuitive. If you rode one of the more raked-out models I’m sure it was different experience. So yeah, I like motorcycles. Harley is a brand of motorcycle. But it’s not the only brand, and there are other brands far better in certain ways.
@@BillLaBrie correct... im not sure the model but it was a long low heavy pig of a bike. Even tho Im in my 50s now I still like to ride to my limit here and there so Im still buying sport bikes and motocross bikes for my local track. Maybe when Im even older Ill get a harely of some kind.
I am 57 years old and own 4 EVO powered harleys (two baskets - an 89 springer and 91 fatboy, an 93 FLTSC - evo softail cruiser and a 92 FLHS - electraglide tourer). I have ridden Hondas and Ducatis. They are great bikes. Traditionally the fit and finish on Harley's are better, and the RIDING EXPERIENCE - even on the rubber glides - are VISCERAL. Just the right amount of vibe, gobs of torque, and predicatable reliable handling. Not world beating, but predictable. And the product line has enough variance (at least in the softail, dyna, touring frame days) to please everyone. And if you can't get what you want, you can make it your own. This is a close to "lean customization" (I am an engineer) running as close to an open source architecture as we have seen in mass market transportation. Please note that I am not a "biker" - I ride all motorcycles, and I would LOVE to have a Moto Guzzi. I think my favorite HD product was my 2013 Dyna Fatbob - great handling, relatively light weight for a "sport cruiser" - with a stage two kit, and a seat and bars and floorboards added after. It was my "modern FLH" - beautiful to look at and fun to ride. Thanks for covering this topic.
I think the huge aftermarket choices are one of Harley's draws. Anything Evo (84) and up are "Big Boy Legos". Almost anyone can build a "custom" motorcycle with no fabrication skills. And people want to "personalize" their bikes. Even though a million owners are building slight variations of the same thing. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. It powers a large industry that feeds thousands of peoples families, and gives riders a sense of kinship with their machine. Personally I prefer nearly stock bikes or full fabricated choppers. Lucky for me, I can show up at an event with either and no one is going to berate me for my choices. It's a wonderful world.
I disagree because the fit and finish on any Harley is very low. Heck for they fell apart so often I literally met Harley riders in Home Depot looking for and getting the same basic low scale nuts and bolts. Dealers tell owners to go to HD. Visited a HD during Daytona Bike week and meet many Harley riders there in the hardware section. Harley relied on the sales pitch of. "Buy American sicne the World Wars." Which they have not been now for years.
Of course a Guzzi is your other desire. These are two of the “loosest” brands when it comes to connection to the road. They feel like my 85 suburban with 90 degrees of play in the steering, floating along on marshmallow suspension components. How you could have ridden any Ducati with crisp precise feedback and prefer a 90’s Hog I cannot fathom. But you are not alone, so please help me understand what I’m missing…
"make it your own"...ah yes, the marketing gimmick that allows HD to put out incredibly expensive bikes with sub-par components (suspension, power, etc.), so riders can then spend $thousands more trying to get it up somewhat near to average standards from other manufacturers.
Said this better than I could. After owning a bunch of bikes from sport bikes to dual sports and everything in between, I just bought my first HD, and am actually looking forward to the ownership experience more than any of the prior ones.
Harley as a trucker reminds me of Peterbilt. There are more efficient trucks on the road. But that big long square hood and chrome stacks that are timeless and iconic to people.
I am relatively new to the biking scene. I’ve wanted a Harley ever since i can remember. I bought my first Harley 2 years ago at 58 years old. And now i see. Yes it is a lifestyle! I’ve put over 30k miles on in about a year
@@gtestastretta1 wow. Harley riders own other bikes. Stop being a douchebag and let riders enjoy what they want to ride. It doesn’t impact you. If I ever see you on my channel, I’ll block you.
@mountainmandale1587 What even are you chatting about? My 2010 flhtcu has 105k miles on it. It still ran with less than 2% leak down on compression testing. Only tore into it to replace cam tensioner shoes and decided it was as good a time as any for a big bore kit. Rides great! At 30k I'm usually replacing a rear tire (double dark)
Eric Buell , Project Nova ,, HD spent $116 Million to shut down the new Buell Factory .. Now they are losing Millions on the Livewire.. HD spent $400 Million to shut down the Modern Kansas City plant. HD lost $85 Million in 2022 and $117 Million in 2023 on their electric bikes.
I love my four Evos. I like my three beemers, a Ducati, a GasGas, a Husky, and a KTM. New Harleys? Nah, the older stuff for me. All time favorite bike -- FXR.
During the AMF days a friend on his CB750 struck up a conversation with a Gold Wing Rider at a gas station. My friend couldn't help but notice the large Harley Davidson Logo on the back of the Goldwing riders jacket and asked why. "I own a Harley Dealership but today i want to just ride and not work on a bike."
I've been a rider for over 50 years and have considered buy a Harley on several occasions. What stops me each time from pulling the trigger is the image of the "typical" Harley rider. Or as my wife puts it, "You're just not a Harley type of guy." As much as I like Harleys and I would love to be able to tap into their massive dealer network as well as the huge aftermarket support, I would more likely buy an Indian because of the different image I would project as an Indian owner. So yes, image does so much to motivate buyers.
Nobody drag races limousines so why are people road racing baggers? I simply don't understand what the possible appeal is for the King of the Baggers series. They're just these big, heavy, long wheelbase, slow lumbering turds.
@m.f.m.67 I have seen video of semi trucks road racing. It's the same as bagger racing. Giant lumbering turds taking valuable track time away from the real racing classes.
I have an 06 Springer Classic, it's a work of art but a good motorcycle it is not! The front brake is so bad it's bordering on lethal. I also have an XR1200 Sportster, it's powerful and fast (with the usual caveat of "for a Harley") but the suspension is complete crap. For me it's unacceptable that "premium" motorcycles need money spent on them to make them usable but still mediocre compared to other brands. I bought into the Harley dream/ lifestyle and regret it. I will never buy another Harley even though there are a couple of current models I like. My next motorcycle will be a Royal Enfield.
Sportster is a Sportster, then they ruined with the Sportster S and then even did themselves more damage by discontinuing the Sportster. Huge Mistake, makes them seem very out of touch with what people want or love. They are sinking all their efforts into these stupid electric and off road bikes, oh and baggers, all they sell is baggers. No more choppers, or Sportsters, it's all geezer gliders and saddle sofas. Sad really. I'll love HD till I die, but they need to stop thinking social credit score and think about what built them and that's old fashioned motorcycles that people LOVE.
It was ...so much so that Harley sued Yamaha because it too was using a single pin air cooled V-Twin. I had a 2006, which blew away the similar softail platform because they had the 88ci twin cam, compared to the Star's much bigger 1700cc power plant. Mine had V&H Longshots and sounded great!
@ronfriedman8740 I've got a roadstar warrior and a harley ultra classic. Love both. For a truly ripping ride I take my concours 14. Different tools for different jobs
It's more than a machine. You don't ride specifications, but you do ride for the experience of it and Harley has evolved it's machines into a unique riding experience.
It's your roads, from my visits I can see how a lazy v twin would be really good. Europe's roads are very different, there are some US roads that are similar, but they're far rarer than the large, mostly straight ones.
I have owned Harleys and I thought they were great bikes, but the company is now cynically ripping off its customers, I won't be buying another one. They have never been the best quality or most reliable but the behind the times engineering does have a certain appeal but not at the prices they now seem to think they can get for them.
I love and still own the only bike I ever bought new, an 1987 1/2 FLST-Special. I love all bikes cause it just so fun to see how all the manufacturers put there ideas out to market and get the 2 wheeled job done. Singles, twins, triples etc... Each bike gets the job done but each in so much a different way. It's fun. In short, I hope the bike you own & ride puts a smile on your face everytime you throw a leg over it. Mine does, hope yours does too.
Thank you for the kind reply. On my "To do" list is to ride a foot clutch/tank shift Harley and ride my late uncles' 2018 Ural 2-WD. With both I want to experience the most memorable yet terrifying 45 MPH of my life. 😃
EXACTLY! To make matters worse HD has gone woke! I never thought I’d say this, but HD has lost me as a customer for good. I sold my last Harley. If I decide to buy another bagger to replace my HD Ultra, it will be an Indian. Harley has lost me as a customer for good.
A rabid MotoGP fan with a fleet of superbikes - I've never owned an HD. But seeing Kyle Wyman beat Tyler Ohara in that incredibly close final lap of the 2023 King of Baggers race at Road America, with the intensity of screaming at the big screen monitor with the throng of beer toting pirates going ape shit behind me in the grandstand was overwhelming. If you watch the official video of that race you'll see Kyle lean his bike against the wall and run along the turn-5 fence high-fiving fans until he was was completely out of breath. Mine was the first hand he slapped and it was seriously one of the most moving experiences of my life. Made me sure I'll own a Harley some day, just to be a member of that camp.
And the newer they are the more of a pile of junk they are. As the years rolled on, the design, engineering,and craftsmanship has gone down in quality, year after year
Hey, ride what you like. You do you. Personally I can have a blast on a Vespa motorscooter or a boss hoss 3/4 ton contraption. Two wheels good. This video was as honest as it gets really. More objective then I've seen, and I'm quite the motorcycle geek. You quite possibly ride strictly for the ride wich is cool. But to mock the quality and value is of ignorance or just plain biased. Just think of the Last time you saw a pile of mangled motorcycles laid out for scrap or salvage with rusted chrome and sunburnt plastic bits. Take a close look and see what brand of motorcycle is not among the heap. Because the only way to render a harley-davidson useless is to burn it. Even after a severe crash it's got value like it or not. The new updated harley-davidson motorcycles will actually be LESS reliable as they age because of the modern ever changing technology that is really unnecessary for the operation of the antiquated beloved design. Your opinion is your opinion of corse but it rings clishea (where's spell Check when you need it?) The last few years of AMF bikes suffered from quality control issues addressed usually buy the dealers or later by the bike owners. I favor the ergonomics of a 1980 and up FLT (moderrn HD bagger) over anything of comperible size. Also the smaller no longer produced Fxr. You may need/want absolute rocket power but torque #'s are more then needed unless you pack really heavy, carry a portly passenger, attach a side hack, or pull a trailer. I like the triumph rocket 3 as far as #'s go, but that is really in a class of it's own. Ride safe mate!
Folks were still into that mindset that a real Harley was strictly an air cooled V-Twin. Not only that, it was a Porsche designed engine, so no self-respecting harley rider would ride a German bike. Nowadays, H-D uses parts from around the world and the M8 has liquid cooled heads...go figure!
@freebehindbars8654 You want character? Ride a Moto Guzzi, plus they stop and handle better than anything HD ever made. Also, you won't see one at every stop sign.
Not every motorcycle rider cares about all out performance! That's why there's Porsches and Cadillacs. Dad rode indians & Harleys. I've owned/rode 4cyl Japanese superbikes like an Kawasaki 750 Turbo, track-prepped '82 Suzuki GS-750, and big-bored '83 GS-1100ES as well as several Harleys from the 40s~90s. I've road-raced and drag raced. But the street is NOT a racetrack. Great to see Kevin Cameron! Been reading his technical wisdom in Cycle World since the 80s.
I've owned 4 new harleys and 3 used ones. I now ride a kawasaki z900rs and a Vstrom XT 1050. Harley is a lifestyle...not a technical motorcycle. I've rode them from Halifax to Key West and Arizona. I'm just not interested in that style of bike anymore. Too expensive and the same old same old every day. The z900rs is 400 lbs lighter, light years faster and generations smoother.
Great talk.. in 1990 bought my gsxr1100, 2006 Hd Road King now a 2013 Dr650. Will never sell bikes ,will only buy more ..Love Harleys ,next bike is xr1200x or yamaha xsr900
Ride a Harley by all means. Just be sure and keep the left lane clear for my cruiser that can safely handle the left lanes of US highways and byways. I'll take a H2 SX SE over 100 Harley bloat bikes. I prefer living in the present and aspire towards the future and retro bikes simply don't cut it for me. Retro bikes aspire toward vanity over purpose. That is a solid pass for me.
I would never own a Harley. 1. The reputation in USA as a bike ridden by less skilled riders. 2. Yesterdays technology at tomorrows prices….3. Underpowered and still over priced. 3. LACK of driving technology design. Harley is for people who want to be SEEN on a bike. For windy and twisty roads, Harley is absolute Garbage.
The fact that H-D actively and openly tells its long time, die-hard fans to go fuck themselves is a real turn off. They wouldn't even mount the HD tires on new rims with sealed bearings for my 91 FXR because it was too old. New wheels, new tires, off the bike. Never been ON the bike. Nope. We don't work on bikes older than 10 years. Love the bike, but HD can kiss my ass. You don't treat customers like that.
Remember ‘Bronson’s Rock’? Every week on the TV series Then Came Bronson, Michael Parks rode into a new town on his Sportster and the weekly villain would run him off the road in some way or another and set up the conflict for the episode. Inevitably, before the ending of that weeks episode, Bronson would have found a rock and completely repaired the bike to ride into the sunset of the next weeks episode. That rock could fix anything!
I love motorcycles. Harleys Suzuki Yamaha Kawasaki moto guzzi Triumph, if it puts a smile on you as soon as put leg over it , buy it. And dont stop riding it.
Insecurity ig. Gotta show your supposed friends you're cool by buying something you can't afford & will never ride. Maybe I'm wrong. It'd be cool to see data on how many miles get ridden by every model bike
Bought my first Harley in 1978. It was a ‘72 Sportster 1000 kick start only. I ride daily. I have owned Harley’s ever since. Every now and then I consider other makes and go test ride them. I even bought a BMW S1000RR and rode it for a while but kept a Road King and sold the Beemer. Harleys seem to be in my blood.
I have two bikes, 2019 HD Ultra, and a 2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250SA, which is highly upgraded. I ride 15k - 20k miles a year. at the end of the day we must ride what emotionally attracts us. I had a test ride experience on a 2023 BMW K1600 GT. I was test riding with my wife, the dealership test tide leader was a retired CHP motor Sgt., Im a retired Stockton PD motor officer. After talking a little about our careers and riding he says "I'm going to take you on a real test ride". A short distance later we accessed a 25 mph corkscrew on ramp to I-80 at about 60+ mph, then rolled up to 120 entering the freeway. My wife later commented, " I thought my head was going to scrape the road". All on a bike I had ridden for two blocks, and with a passenger. The point being the bike was incredible at doing its job, almost without me. It didn't need me, it was "soulless" As great as the K1600 GT was I still don't have a strong desire to own one. I enjoy tiding the HD because it reminds me of being on the police Road King. I enjoy riding the Bandit because it reminds me of my dad's GS1100, also highly upgraded. The only other bike that really attracts me is the Triumph Bonneville. Why? as a kid I remember my dad and uncle street racing Triumph's and BSA's
I would never buy a HD bike just because I don’t want to be part of the click. All Harley riders look the same as do the bikes and not everyone wants to be part of it no matter how good the bike may be
I love my Softail Heritage 114. Just put on some TAB chrome slip on exhausts. I skipped the bogus Screaming Eagle Street Tuner. The ECM on my bike adjusts for the aftermarket pipes. It runs a bit richer is all. The O2 sensors can handle the mod. Saved me $400. Now I do think the EPA is trying to kill the HD market with choking the M8 on emissions rules. The EPA is determined to kill the motorcycle market for cruisers.
I've owned 2-stroke dirt bikes, a couple GSX-R's over the years and now it's all about cruisers. a VTX1300R which is a fantastic bike done up like a Street glide & 3 Harleys a 14 Ultra, 14 Slim & 18 Fatboy. All are great for different reasons & all are keepers.
I have owned and still own many different motorcycles, off road and street for the past 45 years. One of my favorite current bikes is a 2010 Road King, that bike hustles faster on back roads than it should, glides for hours at 85mph and never wears me out....As a bonus I get to take all of my crap with me and have the choice of windshield or not, sissy bar or not, rear rack or not.
Kind of. I think you're putting too much emphasis on the company as a whole, they still sell plenty of bikes and discontinuing Sportsters was a huge mistake.
The amount of “profoundnesses” that sprang forth from you guys’ discussion in this episode was astounding - Bravo!!! 👍👍 From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
All of what was said is true but the appeal of Harley (older HDs) for me is different. Simplicity, power/torque at RPMs most people cruise, great mpg, aftermarket support, low maintenance (air cooled, one carb or throttle body, hydraulic lifters, belt drive, etc)
And today they’re not american anymore. so I bought a Polaris Indian. Simple. It’s better, too. HD5 bikes are not serviced here and not build in USA. Not that it’s better technically made in USA, but if I want a indian manufactured bike or a thai, I buy such a bike, not a Harley. The PanAm got excellent reviews by paid influencers, the bikes are sheit, international dealers have them standing flat in their shop. And you don’t see them on the street like any other chinese-italian, german, austrian, english big trailer. They might sell in the US, thx to the Brand, but the technical market in Europe has technical customers, not fools. The rider of that harley is looking for parts in that old defunct factory, unless he’s wasted all his money on parts and now needs to sleep on the floor protected by a defunct factory.
I have a theory about Harley’s appeal: dopamine. We return again and again to any stimulus that causes the release of dopamine. My Electra Glide is heavy, hot, noisy, shakes, has lousy suspension, is relatively top heavy, but I’ll be damned if I can get rid of it for, say, a new Gold Wing DCT or BMW R1250RT which I KNOW are more advanced motorcycles. My Harley produces feelings I can’t put my finger on except to say that riding the beast releases dopamine. What say you and your viewers? Nutty theory?
I bought the first r18 my local dealer received. I tried everything to make it work for me and gave up. Traded it in on a Harley at a huge loss but was thrilled not to own it .
I have never owned a Harley and possibly never will but I appreciate their place in our motorcycle history and hope they continue to be a significant player.
Great show gentlemen As a life long Harley-Davidson owner, rider & enthusiasts, I was pleased to hear your insight on this sometime misunderstood subject. I think you hit this elusive nail squarely & fairly on the head 🤔
Harley owes a debt to Hells Angels and one percenters for creating a mystique about owning and riding a Harley. I have owned a Harley and it was awful. It constantly needed repair. Yes, sure it was an AMF Harley but it was crap. I test ride Harleys every so often and I still think they are awful. And despite that, I still want one because of the mystique and allure and romance of owning a Harley. But, for the price of a Harley I can buy four Royal Enfields and still have enough money for a steak barbecue and invite all my friends. Harley is a shit bike with incredibly valuable romantic mystique.
At 50k miles my 2019 HD Ultra Limited destroyed its engine due to an inadequate oiling system . warranty is putting a brand new engine in. even at that I'm still 50/50 if ill keep it. Great motorcycles if you upgrade everything
The first time I rode my 2021 Road Glide Special I could not believe the torque and smoothness of the ride. The lower center of gravity made handling a breeze. I purchased a slightly taller windscreen and the riding experience got better. I added a Tall Boy Seat and Tall Boy handlebars and the riding experience got even better. I got some TAB Performance Bam Sticks and the riding experience improved even more. Now my riding time is a pure joy; the look, sound and feel of my bike as I go down beautiful country roads reminds me of all the other riders that have enjoyed their Harley’s for over a hundred years.
KOTB Racing is uniquely American with Indian and Harley. Some have called for other manufacturers to be included but I am not one of them. I love the fact that it is distinctly American and we own it! Ride American Ride Indian!
The older gentleman speaking about the Indian with the light green paint job reminded me of a couple years ago I was heading back from TOTD and pulled into a hotel and checked in. I went back out front for a smoke and that color Indian pulled up with light brown seat with matching saddlebags. I swear I sat out there for 3 hours staring at it. It was beautiful.
[non-Harley] Suggestion - Could you review the Best Open Class UJM of All Time, the GSF1200S? I have owned three Gen 1's, have raced them, built them, and toured Coast-to-Coast on them. Clark Kent in Stock configuration, the bike becomes Superman when slightly modified. What's the design history?
One of the best discussions ever. Only thing missing was the influence of the outlaw motorcyclist phenomenon, which through Hollywood and TV has had a huge impact on Harley-Davidson's success once they embraced it instead of fighting it. But that's understandable since Cameron is more of a tech guy than a social studies teacher. 😅
That's an important area of analysis; the "Outlaw image". In 60 years of motorcycling, I've never been attracted to Harley because I've always thought they were too heavy, too slow and too outdated. Retro styling is fine, I own a Triumph Bonneville 1200 T120 after all (along with two vintage Yamahas, a BMW sport tourer and a KLR). However, retro styling with Triumph does not mean obsolete technology. A Harley barrier is the Outlaw image. I simply don't identify with them and none of my rich boomer cycle buddies do either. The Harley image is repugnant for many of us older riders and so yesterday for younger riders. Harley has a real problem with it's aging fan base and it's unaffordable offerings for younger riders.
The outlaw MC thing was more prevalent in the 70s biker culture than it is now. Nobody I know spends 1 second thinking they are an outlaw because they own a Harley. We ride them because we like the V-twin, push-rod, loping experience. And whether you think it's a marketing gimmick or not, Harley's do have soul that you feel when riding. As far as all the other usual complaints regarding outdated technology and being mechanically unreliable...well it's simply not been true for at least 20 years. I'm still putting miles on my 14 Limited that hasn't had any problems other than normal wear and tear. The technology is "outdated" because that's the bike we want, and even with that they are upping their tech game w/ VVT, liquid cooling and onboard electronics. But nobody buys a Harley to red line at the track on weekends. Also I see a whole lot of young guys riding or wanting to ride HD, but they do have a pricing problem. $35k for a new bagger out the door is pushing the envelope.
In 1970 I was 14. I road a bus from CA to Maine. Bought the Cycle Magazine Buyers Guide. I had owned a Suzuki 80 Hillbilly since I was 11. Norton Commando spanked them all in the quarter. I wanted that. By the time I had it in 1977, it wasn't so hot anymore. Especially a Mk III. I still love it E start removsl and all, but for me, it isn't about the bike any more. It is the journey. The trip. A fleet of GS850/1000/1100G were all priced between 3000 and 600 dollars. I could take my brothers along for less than purchasing an image. I'm getting one of my Commandos back on the road. Then the MK III. There are 3 GS1000G readdy to go. I want to go. I dont care what i look like. I drive a Cortina when the weather permits.
Not the first big manufacturing corporation to make more money off financing than product. But then look how some of them have failed, spacifically General Motors and General Electric. Most motorcycles are sold as a luxury item, not a transportation item. As such no one should ever buy one on time. If you cant afford to pay cash for a bike, you can't afford a bike. Harley Davidson is one economic downturn away from crisis. With Harley an economy in resessioin would mean slower sales compounded with defaults on $30,000 bike loans.
@@jerryandnancywertzbaugher7778 Since the Plandemic there has been a shortage of Repo Men.. so HD Corporate is forcing Dealers to Repo Bikes that the owners are behind on the payments.
@@jonnycando I got a loan for my 79 Z-28 Camaro $7,190.00 new $2,500 down paid it off in 2.5 years it was a 3 year loan. I paid cash for my 2016 Yamaha FZ-07 $7,400.00 out the door.. I got a low Interest Loan from Yamaha on my 2006 Yamaha Attack $9,500.00 Snowmobile. I used a low Interest Credit card to purchase a new 2014 Skidoo Rev 800 $11,000.00 but I out I guess $500 down on snow check on both sleds for the purchase price would have been plus the $500 Deposit.
Sorry to be the negative guy here but for me as a young person, Harleys are not very appealing. They're mostly giant, heavy, inefficient, overpriced cruisers with outdated technology.
The R18 in my opinion did not sell very well because they designed a bike nobody over 6ft could truly be comfortable on, I know this because I tried for 6 months after getting one for a bargain. It was a bargain because BMW's other mistake was trying to sell a base trim cruiser for $17k you could not customize without taking out a loan. A true shame!
Brilliant video - all those backgrounders, phantastic! Not only explained Kevin Cameron in an excellent way the tech details of the engines, also the "reasons why" and the relations to other influencing areas. Really good!!! IMHO a not mentioned reason for the sales in Europe, Japan is that you not only buy a lifestyle, but you buy the original. aka if I wanna buy a Rolex, I get myself one and NEVER one of the many lookalikes. That´s why a Japanese chopper, bagger etc. - how well designed ever - will not succeed. What I really would like is a second part of this video, maybe titled with "Will HD be able to sell Millions in the near future?" Because you stopped your discussion before the TwinCam and M8 engines. And I really wanna hear the thoughts of Mr. Cameron on the disaster of the M8 after launch. The woke Zeitz of Germany you can gladly leave out ...
I rode a FXDX for 19 years, 89000 miles, all uncomfortable. Back breaking ergos unless you have a bagger with a backrest. A bagger with a backrest can be driven all day, and that’s the HD with all the cred.
I have a few motorcycles. Rz 350, rc 51, drz 400 and a beta 500 rs. I don't have a Harley. But I have always been a Harley fan. Despite the AMF epoch. I would love to own a xr 750. But I do have a 84 vw gti that was owned by the son of evel. It's highly modified and fun. And seems to have a special energy. Motorcycles are a special experience. Good for an old bicycle mechanic and track racer. The spirit is the same.
My mint xl1200l was $3500. I also have a Triumph clone of the Road King which is better in every way except part quality, motor beauty and Screaming Eagle sound.
H-D's have amazing build quality, and they FEEL right. A sewing machines runs smooth, but sewing machines aren't very fun to ride. And neither are mega-powered bikes that are fun, but exhausting to ride an on the street can only use a fraction of their performance without breaking many laws. Motorcycling is not just performance, it's an emotional connection with the machine and the environment I'm in. I have many motorcycles; Japanese, German, but nothing, I mean nothing, makes me feel like I feel on my Harley. My garage fleet changes all the time, except my Harley.
AMF made the EVO ,it took 6-7 years to develop the motor. The new buyers did not come around with the new motor overnight. AMF was responsible for the EVO coming into existence. Honda makes more bikes in a month than HD makes in a year. New motors are crap . Image not reality. I am so tired of this kind of bullshit. More granpas didn't ride anything . Army went to jeeps because people in the USA drove cars. People in Europe rode motorcycles,only the rich had cars. I ride, none of my grandparents rode. My dad didn't ride. I cannot imagine life w/o a bike. Motorcycle nuts are born not made.
Harley Davidson, parts failed on my '02 Dyna daily, it's in the back yard. Recently they're one of the loudest voices AGAINST right to repair. Fun to ride, less so to own. (Unless your Paris Hilton of course, then it's reversed) My '24 Husqvarna 901Ex. has computer problems caused by a bad seat heater from the factory so after a long ride the check engine light goes on & I can't utilize cruise control. Thanks Sweden for doubling down & making a small thing worse ! Not sure who makes the most reliable long distance bike out there but a fact based chart w/real statistics would be helpful. And no I won't buy another MC that voids my entire warranty because I changed my own oil or checked my own tire pressure, adjusted my mirrors or got rained on w/out factory authorization. (Jury's still out on this one.) Oh yea, the seat sucks after 4hrs, at least Harley got that much right
@@freebehindbars8654 Only 3% of Drivers License Holders have a motorcycle Endorsement. My Camaro has 54,000 miles on it and it's in to storage.. I would like to do an LS swap .. put in a 4 ling Dana 60 rear axle .. bigger 4 wheel disc brakes rool cage and an LS engine swap set up to run on E-85
What’s funny is what you’re talking about is what’s killing the brand. It worked in the 90s and the early 2000s it’s not working for them now. The dealerships are crap. Can’t get parts. Lucky if they call you back. Took 2 weeks of calling and final you have to be an asshole to get any service. Their business model of producing junk and then having to spend $10,000 to make it run proper is not a good business model. Oh and by the way AMF made Harley what it is today. Dumping millions of dollars into research on the Evo engine.
Old Retired Americans want Aircooled, carbureted, push rod, simple, non-electronic bikes that can run on 80 octane with a low cost of ownership due to needing zero maintenance.
thats why this time I bought the 2024 low rider st my baggers were too heavy mine cost 30k from maui with zero options payed cash. love it. big island been riding since the 70s my first true love was a XLCH I was a 14 kid riding on the back of the galloping gooses mc being friends from my best friends older brother. c ya
Harleys have class and are considered cool and ridden by dangerous types,and they almost always have that four stroke music coming from aftermaket twice pipes,need I say more?
Harley’s DEI nonsense may be what destroys the image and culture that they have depended on for decades. It certainly is going to see how this all plays out in sales and market cap, but I really doubt Harley can attract enough woke customers to offset what they lose from their traditional base. Time will tell.
Most of it is probably "monkey see monkey do." I've ridden my whole life and didn't get into cruisers until my late 40s. I like the looks, though they're so common it doesn't excite me. My first Victory was all about the ride and practicality. While HD at the time was put together with better parts like switchgear and hidden wiring harnesses, the Vic was a way better riding bike at the time IMO. Move forward to HD's M8 and now they got a 4 valve head that runs cool and strong thru the rev range. They also improved the suspension braking and frame along the way. But on top of being able to travel in comfort two up and handling well enough for a street bike, one of their best features that no one talks about is simplicity. It's so bloody easy to do anything to them. Change the airfilter with one bolt. I used to have an FJR and while it was fast (and buzzy), it required removing about 40 fasteners to get the stinkin Tupperware off it to do anything. And the Michelin Commander tires out now are sticky enough for as far as they can be leaned and last about 20k miles. If you actually ride a lot and don't feel the need to demonstrate how brave you are to have the most powerful bike on the Cycle World tech spec page, one could do a whole lot worse than a modern HD.
I like all types of motorcycles. Ride what you want. Harleys are great for cruising down the road. Comfortable on long trips. Very versatile to a point.
Fifty+ years ago, and old biker told me the real difference between Japanese motorcycles and Harley Davidsons. He said, "A Japanese motorcycle will get you a speeding ticket, and a Harley will get you laid." 🤣
What you wrote means that people who ride Harleys don't get laid, so they buy a Harley in the hope of getting laid. So people buy Harleys because they're not getting laid and want to get laid. Ah, OK. Some people don't want to be associated with that desperation.
40 years ago, an old guy told me, "Kid, when ya get to MY age, all ya think about are the girls you COULD'VE screwed, but didn't". Damned if he wasn't right 😑.
