How the fuck is everyone missing the fact that Crosby has been MORE than a ppg for 19 consecutive seasons and gretzky was MORE than a ppg for 15 consecutive seasons. Season 16 he had 48 points in 48 games. Crosby has the MOST seasons with MORE than a ppg in NHL history. Look it up for fuck sakes. No shame to gretzky obviously. The goat
I guess Wayne has to live with the most consecutive seasons of over 2 points per game of nine. An actual record would just be 1 or more points per game, not more than one point per game. I get what you're saying but that's just not how it gets looked at. Nobody is missing any facts.......take a breath.
Not sure that is the correct way to rate players these days as the game has changed so much. Greatest player of his generation is my take. Howe, Hull, Orr, and Richard with Sir Sid #5? Gretzky, Lemieux and a host of others come to mind also.
Connor Mcdavid and Austin Matthews need a Stanley Cup! Crosby figured it out, Sakic figured it out, Yzerman figured it out, Lemieux figured it out, Ovechkin figured it out you have to have a cup!
Sid's gonna get another 250 pts before he's done And he missed 150 games in his offensively prime years. He's the best Complete Player to ever play the game!!!!!
As a Pens fan since 1988 I think Sid is in many ways as great as Mario, and Mario is my favourite player. I think if Mario had Sid’s drive to win he would have smashed all the records and won more than 2 cups. Mario was super competitive but Sid is committed to winning in a way Mario took for granted. 2 cups for Mario was an underachievement. Sid makes the highlight reel plays regularly but also commits to doing all the little things and practicing them incessantly.
MY ASS Datsyuk would put him to shame in the defensive game and hands, Best all round player is Datsyuk. Crosby never even won a selke, I give Sid his respect but defensively no chance. He is so much more offensive.
Sid is too much of an offensive star to ever win a selke anyway, no matter how good his 2 way game is. The top of the top offensive players will never win it, again, no matter how good their defense is.
@@Musso88Ya because they are just offensive forwards. Not power forwards. Can't do much else but score assist or whatever. Getting tired of excuses and this conversation.
I dunno about placement. I think his injuries held back his absurd prime. However I agree with the Era of his play it was hard hockey. Now he's older and it's a shooting gallery. He missed the easy windows.
What???? Makes zero sense!!!! 80s Era was garbage the fact you'd dare to think otherwise shows us you have zero knowledge about hockey. Gretzky Era was pure trash
The part about Crosby having more 30 goal seasons than Lemieux is moot. Everybody knows that's only because of all the health issues Lemieux had. What happened, happened. I get that. But I think Lemieux's numbers are more amazing than they even look on paper, because he was playing sick or injured for basically his entire career. But it's all beside the point. All that aside, Crosby certainly deserves his spot among the elite of the elite.
@@v4v819 The high ankle sprain, the concussion (that was actually a broken neck, which people seem to forget), and the busted face. Sure. That's bad. But it's not close to what Lemieux went through. Cancer, a back infection (that had Lemieux literally bed-ridden for months, and nearly ended his career in 1991), two bad hips, and the heart problem that finally forced him to retire.
@@Connor8609 I love Crosby, but I think the top 3 is Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr in any order you want. Gretzky has video game numbers. Lemieux has video game numbers, despite of all the health problems. Among forwards, those two are in their own class. Then Orr completely redefined his position. A defenseman winning the Art Ross (twice) is something that will never be replicated.
As a western Pennsylvanian, I want to thank Canada for all the great hockey talent you’ve sent our way! Mario, both as a player, and now owner of the Pens made Pittsburgh hockey what it is today. Sidney Crosby was and is the perfect successor to Mario. In fact, my family has a 15 year old dog we named Sidney as a personal honor to him. We got her as a pup in December of 2008, the season the Pens avenged their loss to the Redwings and won the Stanley Cup. Our doggy Sid is blind and incontinent, but otherwise healthy. I hope the Pen’s Sid doesn’t suffer such a fate. 😉 I expect we can count on him for another 4-5 years. It’s been a great run having two of the best to ever play the game playing in Pittsburgh. Here’s hoping Mario lands another killer player who can keep the tradition alive!
@@v4v819how many comment threads are you gonna reply to saying this same thing? Sid played in shortened seasons as well, so either they all count or they don't.
I don’t know how many times I’ve seen him play, but I’ve never seen him go less than full throttle every shift. And then add the talent, leadership, and clutch play. What a great player.
points are so much harder to come by in today's game compared to 99's era. Crosby is 8th all-time in points-per-game, in a much harder era. To me that makes him quite possibly the best ever. *McDavid is higher that Crosby now but half as many games so likely will slow down at some point
I wouldn't kick out anyone in the top 5 for him he's top 10 for sure... But who would you replace for him in the to 5? Howe was in the top ten for points for most of his 20+ seasons in the NHL and more if he didn't join the WHL. He had a his best season being only the second to score over 100 (Phil E is the first and did it same year beating him by a few games) did i mention he was 40 during during that all-time season! He even continued playing professional hockey in his 50's... I don't think Syd is better than Mr Hockey, the closest to him is Mess and i'd still take Mark over Crosby... McDavid if he keeps tearing up the league for several more years and wins a cup could be the only one i see to break open that all-time top 5... And then don't forget the Rocket! Big company!
It's weird that Mike Bossy doesn't get more love for being a Rushmore candidate. Four cups, Nine straight 50 goal seasons (all but his injury shortened final year), ranks 4th in career points-per-game. And where does he rank in Goals-per-game? FIRST! 😳
Bossy was an amazing player don't get me wrong, but his career averages are inflated due to having to retire early and only playing his prime years in the late 70's and 80's when scoring was at an all time high. The consecutive 50 goal seasons are impressive, but it wasn't like he was leading the league every year. Gretzky and Lemieux were beating his goal totals while putting up far more assists at the same time. I know some Bossy fans will kill me for this, but I don't think he's that far above a guy like Stamkos when you take into consideration the difference in eras. Bossy does have a big advantage in the playoffs though.
@@michaelshields6326 You brought up Gretzky and Lemieux, but we already know they are ahead of him. It's the quest for fifth on the so called Mt Rushmore of hockey where I think Bossy needs more attention. I just don't think people are that aware of the numbers he actually put up. Hopefully, some people will read this and look them up. They're pretty astounding, really.
@@Statsy10 I just explained why he wouldn't be 5th lol. He was really good but his career averages are greatly inflated by retiring early and playing in the highest scoring era in NHL history. Even if you removed Gretzky and Lemieux completely he would have only won 1 Art Ross trophy. Great goal scorer but he's not better offensively than guys like McDavid, Crosby, Jagr, Beliveau, Richard, Esposito, who all were multiple Hart and Art Ross winners.
@@michaelshields6326 I didn't say he should be fifth, for the record. I just think he should be in the conversation. Also, I hope you're making those same retiring early arguments for Orr. Lol. Bossy was scoring 50 and 60 (nearly 70) goals well BEFORE he ever reached what people would consider a player's prime. I wish we could have seen him continue his career. Same with Orr and Mario.
Hope Crosby does this another couple seasons, and it becomes just his record. Maybe he'll break it next year and Ovi will break Gretz's goal record how dope would that be.
The problem with Matthews? He happened to come into the league when he’ll always be overshadowed by 4 or 5 others that are overall better, and more valuable to their teams.
OMG thank you. My friend, the most die hard Leafs fan I’ve ever met, thinks Matthews is the best player in the league and the vote for the Hart shouldn’t even be close. According to him Matthews should win the Hart hands down. I wouldn’t be upset if Austin Matthews was on my team but if I could choose I would pick McDavid and McKinnon before him without hesitation.
This is no disrespect to Wayne Gretzky, but no one was allowed to hit him when he played. The level of competition today is way better than it was back in the day.
I was surprised looking at Ovechkin's stats and saw that he had 6 seasons with less than a point per game. That's quite a lot considering Crosby has never had a season with less than a point per game.
It's between him and Beliveau for that 5th overall spot I would think. You could probably make an arguemnt for either guy. McDavid will be up there with all those guys at some point, and soon from the looks of it.
Its just too hard to include the guys who won so much when there were only 6 teams. I always like to start it at the first big expansion, so that would be the Orr/Esposito Bruins. Don't wanna take anything away from the very early guys, but its just say too different a situation.
I'm no Kucherov fan, but he is also having an amazing season - closing in on 50-100. Probably won't hit it but will be close. Only 2 players hit that mark ML once and WG rediculoulsy 8 times.
What a joke of a video this is. Can’t even give Crosby the respect he deserves. Absolutely pathetic. Matthews and McDavid need to win. They are not in any discussion ever until they do.
Top 5 no doubt. The best all around player to ever play the game. Not even that close. Mcdavid will finish with more points sure but unless he wins 3-5 cups I’m not sure he can or will ever surpass Crosby. Crosby just did so much for the game.
Sidney Crosby is the third best player in NHL history. At some point, we have to start realizing he’s the best player to ever play. Just so we’re clear, also - there is only one person in NHL history with BETTER than a PPG in 19 consecutive seasons - that’s Sidney Crosby. Gretzky finished with 48 in 48. Sid has been the 5th best player in nhl history since 2016. There’s no a single person on earth that can make a serious argument that Gordie Howe is a better HOCKEY PLAYER than Sidney Crosby.
You can't hold the Olympics against 97 and 34. That being said. Neither of them have a chance at catching Crosby in terms of Legacy. They are point and goal scoring specialists respectively. Have not proven to be winners, two way players, team first players or playoff performers. They both lack complete play especially in the playoffs or the key games. Crosby not only has won at every level, hes been instrumental in deciding moments. Crosby will stand above them at the end of their time even if they surpass his points or goals unless they have a dynasty run. They're both no question HoF already so it feels weird to exclude them from the upper echelon. His major claim to fame. Even on his own team, I've always felt Malkin had more raw talent than Crosby but Crosbys IQ and work ethic is simply unrivaled. We lost his prime and his totals would've been quite a bit higher. Probably the most complete player to lace up.
Of course TSN HASSSSS to even mention anything resembled to Toronto Maple Leaf Hockey - let alone maybe even make it more important than the ACTUAL subject of the video … SIDNEY CROSBY … to be honest - I’m glad SID is getting the recognition he deserves … he’s a God to us Yinzers … lately I think the people of Pittsburgh have been taking him for granted . After tonight’s comeback win against the Devils - Pens are 3 pts shy of playoff spot . this living/PLAYING legend in Pittsburgh ain’t gonna quit . ( last 6 games - 6 goals - 9 assists - 15 points )
Auston Matthews has played 8 years in the NHL and is 4 even strength goals away from breaking the franchise record for most even strength goals as a maple leaf. Think of that for a second, swish it around. 8 years is all it took for this next generation of talent to break a goal scoring record on an ORIGINAL SIX NHL TEAM. I told you that story to tell you this STATEMENT; Sidney Crosby is the best hockey player of all time. If there’s an argument for anyone else to be there, it’s Lemieux.
mcdavid and mathews won't be on any top 5 list if they don't win a cup. they got almost 20 seasons between the both of them, and they haven't even got 1 ring
Where where does Jagr sit on the list? Number two all time in pts, 2 cups. Not saying he needs to be top five but would argue he has more right to that claim currently than McDavid Matthews or my active player not named Crosby or Ovechkin.
Sids easily Top 5. He deserves another shot at a Cup but with Dubas as GM that’s doubtful. After all he fk’d the Leafs. As for Mathews empty netter he was actually trying to pass to William Bystander so he could get his cookie.
@@Brian-dg3ghHe's also playing a higher scoring league than when Ovechkin was in his prime. If scoring stays the way it is now and IF (it's one hell of an if considering how well Ovechkin aged) he stays healthy and ages well I would not be surprised to see him end up beating Ovechkin's totals. I still would consider Ovechkin the better player though, Matthews has never been the all around offensive force Ovechkin was at his peak.
One debate I never hear is who has had the better career. I'd put Messier up there as the best career out of all NHL players. Gretz and Crosby are in the top 3 for me.
McDavid and Matthews both have a lot of help. Is the fact that they did not do it yet their fault or the management. Crosby has never played with a star winger or a sought after defensive core. Other than Malkin and Fleury, he did not have the talents that McDavid and Matthews have. But, some how Crosby got it done.
Did you forget a HOF Dman there? And Guentzel is going to be a top FA on the market. So I think you are wrong on that too. I think Crosby is top 5 too and not even sure if I put him 5. He did play with 3 HOFers though. And McDavid is probably more talented and will pass him. Matthews is special too and will have a shot to end up the greatest goal scorer of all time and the greatest American. I think way too many talk about them as just offense too. They play much better defense then gets credited to them. And there are real management and team problems that have led to them not winning yet. McDavid’s postseason stats are crazy. They play in Canada too and NHL doesn’t want Canadian team to win. Coming from an American.
@@cjcable6995 crosby won a cup without guentzel tho. the amount of money edmonton and Toronto has spent on their core alone, it would be embarrassing if they don't get a cup out of it.
@@meladgoat it’s a salary cap sport. Most teams are spending pretty similar amounts of money overall. I wish it were more like baseball (my primary sport) but money spent feels like a weird metric. I’d expect Canadian teams in general to spend well because they are going to be more consistently well supported than most American teams and they have to keep players from leaving to the US. And he said that Crosby has never played with a star winger. I was just pointing out that this was clearly wrong. I love Crosby as much as the next guy but I do think his career gets hyped in weird ways to try and make the “he’s clearly the modern GOAT” debate. I think he clearly is without the exaggerations anyways. I do think McDavid is more talented and will pass all his individual accomplishments rather easily. He just happens to play for a Canadian team so 3 cups feels hard to see. And Matthews isn’t even in the GOAT discussion but he has a very good shot at being the greatest goal scorer of all time.
Statistically he's on pace, if he stays health AND if he can win. The greatest american players have all won at least one cup along with their great stats.
They stopped debating top 10 all time like 5 or 6 years ago atleast. Then it went to Top 5 argument now it seems closer to replacing Howe on the top 4.
I'm a Pens fan, so yeah, I'm a total homer for Sid. Having said that...Lemieux and Gretzky were on an entirely different level; otherworldly talent that I saw with my own eyes. Sid has talent, but he makes his bones by never taking a day off; the greatest grinder in the history of hockey. The fact that he's still better than a PPG at his age is incredible and speaks volume about his dedication to preparation. But one thing I've never seen Sid do is dominate a game, just completely take it over, put his team on his back and carry them to victory, the way those two could. Malkin has; it's rare, but he's done it. But Sid never has. Yet with Sid, you always what you're going to get from him, game after game, whereas Malkin could simply disappear for entire stretches. And so, I can only wonder whether Sid truly belongs on Mount Rushmore or the next tier down of great, but not legendary.
The definitive first tier of Hockey's Mount Rushmore is .. Howie Morenz .. Maurice 'the Rocket' Richard .. Gordie Howe .. Wayne Gretsky .. the second tier could include .. Jean Beliveau .. Mario Lemieux .. Mike Bossy .. Mark Messier .. Jaromir Jagr .. Denis Potvin .. Phil Esposito .. Ray Bourque .. Guy Lafleur .. Bobby Hull .. Stan Mikita .. Alex Ovechkin .. etc .. The absolute top of Hockey's Mount is "Henri Richard" .. back in 50 game seasons .. one of the earliest to reach 1,000 points .. "eleven" Stanley Cup Rings as a player .. a record that will never be beaten ..
Why is Crosby #5? What possible argument is there to say Howe ranks up there with Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr? IF Howe is legitimately in the top 4, then he is absolutely 4th. I argue that Crosby is #4 and Howe is #5. At this point in time, Howe went from being considered the best ever when he had the points record and goals record. Well, he's 4th in points now, and 3rd in goals. When do generations after him eventually get some credit? My ranking (based on pure talent, not just results and longevity): 1) Lemieux 2) Gretzky 3) Orr 4) Crosby 5) Brodeur? Bossy? Hasek? Howe? Jagr? Lafleur? Sawchuk? Lidstrom? Pick someone for 5th, but I don't know why goalies don't get any credit for being one of the best of all time. Why is it always top point producing forwards and Orr? No other D gets mentioned, and no goalie ever gets mentioned. I think that's criminal to the best ever at those positions. Also, why not a great 2-way forward (or defenseman for that matter) who put up tons of points and excelled in his own end? That is another list to break down. Those are pure championship winning caliber Clydesdales that every team dreams of drafting. A lot of not-so-sexy attributes get left out of the discussions of the best ever.
Sidney Crosby???? I'm one of the most knowledgeable experts in the world on hockey, maybe the most knowledgeable, and I've never even heard of this person. Was this some kind of an April fools joke?
Problem is, McDavid has already established himself as the only other player who is on Gretzky Lemieux Orr level, and when its all said and done, he could very well be considered the greatest. At the very least he's already the most skilled ever.
Imposible to be the greatest, how many stably cups first Wayne have, and the points that Wayne has…it’s imposible…in order for Connor to beat Wayne’s points, he would have to play 30 seasons playing at the same pace he is, which is imposible
Crosby did as well. When he was hurt in his prime years, he was putting up mcdavid numbers in a much lower scoring area. In Crosby early years, he got a hundred points rookie year, won mvp as a teen (youngest I believe), won Stanley cup, gold medal with golden goal, and many more. Crosby absolutely dominated but too bad he was hurt. People have short term memories. Crosby has won 3 cups, multiple MVPs of everything, goal titles, most points, and so much more. Crosby used to fly too but he is so well rounded now that he is older. I would choose a prime Crosby any day and mcdavid has a lot more to do in order to catch Crosby
@@justindietzler8787As great as Crosby was in his prime, the fact is he got hurt and never actually completed full seasons at that pace. What McDavid is doing now is above that, even when adjusting for scoring levels McDavid's numbers come out ahead. With the exception of 1 month during the 21/22 season and the first 16 games this year, McDavid has maintained an 150+ point pace for almost 4 years now. At 27 he's still head and shoulders above anyone else as the best player in the world. After his age 26 season Crosby's offensive production dropped off and he was no longer the undisputed best player in the league offensively. Do I believe he could have possibly done what McDavid is doing without the injuries? Maybe, but unfortunately it didn't work out that way and you have to give McDavid credit for actually doing it. Crosby has had an amazing career and I have him as the 5th best all time currently, but I have zero doubt that McDavid will bump him down to 6th once his car eer is over.
Your a "Butter Boy" That means you give credit, when credit is due. BUT, you still talk about McDavid, and Matthews. If you want to consider them would be greats, They BOTH need more than 1 Cup. Because that means they are leaders not scorers. If you feed people all the time they will score. Just look at Ovechkin. He has no clue how to distribute a puck. Or motivate a team. Crosby 3 Cups, Lemieux 2 cups, Gretzky 4, Howe 4, and Orr 2. The greats make their teammates better. Ovechkin, McDavid, and Matthews have yet to prove that. Score all you want. But to REAL Hockey fans, scoring, ASSISTS, and Cups are the decider in who is great.
Yeah! And Orr only ever had one season over 40 goals so take him out of the conversation too! Cuz clearly all time players list only means goal scoring ability.
Messier only had one 50 goal season too, and Howe had none, and Messier played in thr highest scoring era ever, on the highest scoring team ever, and with the most dominating scorer ever plus tons of other talent. 🤷♂️
Lets be real any player whos peak was prior 2010 should not be mentioned. Sorry gretzky himself said he could only dream of being half as decent as today kids. So gretzky automatically out of the conversation. Any player from them era should not be mentioned garbage real trash hockey worst than todsy beer league
Gordie Howe could've played amazing in any era, and almost did. The cups, trophies, and insane longevity are tough to beat. He was in the top 5 in scoring for 20 straight years.
@@FUCKTHEFASCISTSCONTROLLINGYT considering the fact that there were less than 20% as many teams and players in the league when he won his cups and trophies, I don’t think they mean quite as much. Let’s be intellectually honest here. I don’t deny that Howe would be an all time player in any era, but nobody should be putting him as a lock above Sid
The funny thing is, i took mcdavids first 7 or 8 seasons all of them basically last year and compared to crosbys BEST 7 or 8 seasons and guess who had better stats😭 spoiler its not Crosby
@@mdmazing183 even if we did focus on points, the years you’re picking for Cosby were when 100 points would win the scoring title. This year there will be 10 players with 100 points. Also, Crosby 3 cups McDavid 0. Nobody is taking you seriously.
@@Brian-dg3gh yea youre right, Patrick maroon has 3 cups we should be comparing it to him right? And he has 3 in a row on 2 different teams. Its settle. Maroon better than corsby
@@mdmazing183 if Pat maroon was the captain of those teams it would be an indicator that he is arguably better than McDavid. There is a big difference between winning a cup and leading a team to a cup. For example if McDavid can’t win a cup he may not even be considered better than Malkin or Jonathan Toews.
@@Damphouse see right there. Assuming I don’t know how great Orr, lemieux and Wayne were is crazy. The league is BETTER than it was in the 90’s, 80’s, and 70’s by miles. But it’s ok bro. I’m not going to argue with you. I know I’m right. Sid by the end of his career will be top 3 all time.
@@mathewglatt6645if the league is SO MUCH BETTER today than it was in the 90s, why was a 43 year old Jagr (who was playing in the early 90s) still a first liner in the mid 2010s? Oh I know, maybe because equipment/coaching/training aren't the same thing as inherent talent and great players adapt to the time periods they're in regardless. People overinflate this "the game is so much better" bullshit and try to make it sound like hockey players in the 90s were cavemen with tails and we've evolved in a decade. It's extremely lazy rhetoric that I've been hearing for years.
Mcdavid will retire at #2, no question. But the fact that he's so much better than everyone at a time where everyone is so good, it's a testament to how great he truly is.
Injuries are not factored in plus different eras you are a casual and never played hockey you can't just go by stats silly ppg plus team composition I mean Jagr had Lemuiex. messier had the great one Yzerman had federov, shanahhan, lindstrom, sackic had forsberg rob blake patrick roy etc. I mean Crosby only had Malkin and Letang and chris kunitz. Again you have not played hockey at a high level@@thrace5134
@@thrace5134Comparing career stats is not a great way to compare players. Not when there has been such large fluctuations in league scoring levels and with Crosby having spent the bulk of his prime in a very low scoring league. It's better to compare how they performed against their own generation of players and see how much they dominated. I think Howe and Jagr are the closest to him. I have Howe ahead of him with Jagr just a little below Crosby. The other guys you listed he is a level above.
Scoring goals is quite important in hockey, I'd say. The greatest goal scorer of all time doesn't make it into the top five? Ovi has scored almost as many goals as Wayne Gretzky, but he's done it against elite athletes. It's disingenuous to have the top four be untouchable. They paved the way, yes, but they played in eras where hockey was far less competitive than it is today. Gretzky, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Lidström, Hasek. Not necessarily in that order.
@@yannikarmas2695 We could potentially see Matthews outscore Ovechkin during his career. Isn't that worthy of a position on the mount rushmore of hockey despite team accolades?
@@Regalman I was not only speaking about american hockey players, but there are a bunch of amazing players from Swedish, Finnish, Russian, and Czechia that doesn't even get a nod.
@@JonasStavborg For me, no and im not being a hater, winning is required in my opinion. Hence why it was huge for Ovie winning his cup. Had he not he would always have the stigma of one of the greats to never win. With that said, this is all subjective and there is not exact metric for ranking players but in my opinion you need to win at least one cup to be considered a top 10 guy, let alone on the mount rushmore. Also, the potential for surpassing Ovie is just that, a maybe, and in all likelyhood not going to happen. He would, like Ovie, have to be very lucky in terms on staying healthy and longevity to do it. We'll see how it shakes out, he's definetly one of the best players in the game today. Cheers!
