Coming from a similar background having studied Software Engineering, I can tell you that you have hit a lot of the right steps during your studies. First, you knew pretty early on what you wanted to focus on and you worked hard on it, then you met the right people and got the right timing. I envy you a little, but I am also grateful to learn from my mistakes and compare your success story to mine to see what I could have done better. I didn't get experience when I graduated and as you said, everyone wants to hire people with experience, and so, finding a job has been really difficult. Throw in some imposter syndrome and anxiety issues and it can get pretty tough. Anyways, you inspire me to go forward and not give up. Everyone's path is different, I guess.
We are the same bro. That imposter syndrome and anxiety is just terrible. And the worst part is there's is so much to learn before I can get to the point where I feel like I would be good enough? Like not to have the anxiety and imposter syndrome. I am trying to get a data science job, how about you?
@@stanford19 Yeah, it's rough, but we got it! I'm interested in graphics programming actually but I feel like I need to learn so much more before I can even get a junior position, I am just trying out webdev for now and putting graphics programming on the side to learn as a hobby.
Honestly I sometimes feel like I completely wasted my 4 years of uni. I'm sure a lot of people feel like that, but it's not a good feeling either way. I hear about people, including my sister, who had good relationships with their professors, loved what they were learning, and all that, while I just kind of felt like I was being swept along without any time to appreciate the things I was doing. I guess the biggest two factors were that I didn't have any work ethic, and I was not entirely sure what I wanted to do anyway.
Absolutely was on the same boat as you. Can relate a lot. Took me time to find a path. It's now only near the end of those 4 years that things seemed to be coming into real order... and feel like something's happening... but yet a long way to go. Don't feel alone.
i did a game design course and also felt that focusing on the tech specifically was what i wanted loving the storytimes so far, thanks for uploading cherno :)
one thing I tell people who ask "should I go college and get a CS degree?" My answer is simple, "meet people, make network connections and choose a college that is right for you. don't go to a college because it's well known." In 20 years of developing software, the best engineers I know have one thing in common, they have great problem solving skills and analytical thinking focus. when I interview people, I don't care what degree a person has or what college they went to. I always ask questions around a real problem and ask them to think through it. I want to see how a person tackles a problem, their thought process and can they communicate clearly. If they can do these 3 basic things well, I know they'll work out. In contrast, I've met or interviewed people with huge chip on their shoulder that were terrible developers. If I list the top 5 people I know, they don't have a CS degree at all.
@@Erebus2075 are you kidding me? having a degree has zero correlation to good code. Some of the worst code is from academia. In my experience, the best predictor of good code that is well designed, documented and tested is caring about maintenance. There's literally mountains of junk code by people with CS degrees in open source. Back when I used DB2 mainframe, I discovered horrendous bugs in the SQL parser written by someone with a CS degree. I've met my fair share of CS grads who think "I have to show how smart I am with my code." they proceed to over design and implement a pile of spaghetti code. If you want to know if someone will write good code, ask them to solve a problem and see if they resist the temptation to over design the solution. Better predictor is do they take time to really understand the problem and ask great questions before proposing a solution. Garbage code is a mind set, not the result of a degree.
Problem #1 is that people think a CS study is to teach you how to code. It's called computer *science* for a reason. Programming is just the tool, and although it gets thought as well, it's still just secondary, and for the most part students have to learn it themselves. That is, unless we're talking about things such as the "science of" software technology, in which case there is much more focus on the code than with other disciplines. Learning about cryptography, computer graphics, artificial intelligence, robotics, etc. is one thing, and learning how to properly code is another. (I'm not saying they're unrelated. You learn how to code in other engineering fields as well, but nowhere does it have as much of a focus than in CS. Nonetheless it's important to make a distinction.)
Thank you, that actually help me somehow. I live in a third world country without any programming field degree, and I know it is a very low percent for me to get any job with programming though I've been studying it online for years because i really like it, but I was wondering, what if i got the chance? Will it all be in vain without the degree? Thankfully the world has some people like.
Hey I'm at the university you went to! Just about to graduate from the Software Engineering degree! 😁 Your videos are what got me through DSP and Games Programming units. Thank you 🙏
As an electrical engineer, I got a good laugh hearing that The Cherno started as a software/computer engineer. There is a lot of weird overlap between Comp Sci, EE, and CompE majors. It made me very sad that he decided to end his circuits class early, the physical side of how electronics interact with software and the world around us is where my passion is. Yet here he is teaching me about C++. Funny how paths can intersect with eachother the way that they do. Keep up the good work man, I really appreciate your passion for describing how to implement C++ and when/why the concepts are important.
Hey Cherno, your story is really inspiring. Thanks to you and your channel I learnt opengl and done 3D graphics last year which was the reason I got selected into Google Summer of Code program. This program is a huge deal for me and will most probably help me a lot in my career. I got accepted because of you and your video and I'm really grateful. Cheers from the other side of the planet you are the best man!
Really appreciate your candidness Cherno. The thing so many refuse to understand is that the universe does align - the stars do align (as you said) to help you attain your goals … if you’re willing to put in the effort. And we both know what that means - you work your butt off and network like crazy. The point is: you do your part - which is often a little more than most people are actually willing to give - and the universe will usually make up the difference.
I just need to tell you that you inspire me a lot. I am currently doing my 3rd year of college (in Spain). I haven't been taught many interesting things. I struggle a lot to keep motivated to finish my sutff in college, because I always think that my time is better invested when I work and learn by myself. I've been teaching myself Unity and C# for 3+ years now, and I recently started your series about c++ and also about making Sparky Engine, which are both incredibly great. Even after having put so much effort into everything, I still think that it seems impossible to get a job in the gaming industry. It just feels like a really important milestone that is incredibly hard to get, because my university doesn't have any relationship with any game company. I don't know, I just wanted to thank you for all the videos you have made so far, because they are all incredibly helpful and interesting.
Absolutely loving this #StorytimeWithCherno series. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences from back them. I can tell I'm much in the same position you was back then, and it really helps me get a clearer picture of what I should do to get somewhere like you did.
every time i see these types of vids it comes down to "i got lucky and thats how i got it"... yesyes you worked hard, we all freaking do/did/does; maybe most of us dont love doing it like these always sound like but none the less put in the work :)
Ill just gonna be honest. Yes LUCK is very important in life and you can't force it so much aswell. I was lucky i got a steady contract inside the 2008 crisis. (Boss said no steady contracts untill crisis is over) But i got it, and therefore i could get a mortgage. And houses where cheap on that moment. I got myself a very nice house which is now worth so much money... that i could not buy it currently with my salary. Alot of things are luck in life.
I want to thank your professor too, he was pivotal in your formation and hence, in all the amazing content you are now capable of producing. Thanks, professor!
Thank you for sharing your story! I'm feel like your upload timing on this topic is really relevant for me personally right now because I am currently looking for game developer job myself. 11:35 really hits home for me, I didn't apply anywhere else because I was really set on this one Company, sent them my portfolio, profile and stuff, got myself into the final interview with them, and of course, I blew it at the final interview. Then COVID happened so nobody was responding to my e-mails, and here I am now. I guess I should have not risked it during times like these, but I've learned my lesson now.
Im trying to learn game hacking on my spare time alongside my regular cs degree. I can actually carry the knowledge over to my goal job/degree as a pentester mainly for malwares analysis and reverse engineering. My first semester i took a c++ course and this was my first ever programming course. Next semester hopefully will be object oriented but Im now trying to learn game hacking so im going ahead and watching your c++ series. This way i learn about my hobby and also will already know what I’ll be learning next semester in class. Wanted to thank you for your amazing c++ series. I love the detailed descriptions. I actually take notes kind of word by word!
I would love with all of my hear to work in the games industry. But man, every time I hear about people who actually work there, it's always a litany of passionate people who burn themselves out, or sacrifice their life savings for a single game at a decent game. For every one success story you hear, I can imagine 100 different life-destroying professional horror stories, so I was very curious as to how Cherno got his job as a teenager working at EA. Turns out, all you need is a once--in-a-lifetime, miracle set of circumstances to be hired by a reputable company in the core games industry. Great.
I think it's important to remember that people who had a great time are less likely to talk about their experience than someone who had a terrible one.
Loved the story. It's always hard to see the jobs behind a big company if there is so much stuff to hear about it and you only see the results of the visual teams. (Level designers, Artists, Modelers, sometimes programmers) So this kind of story are valuable and this sounds like a really nice workplace. Ofc every place is different but I get why you worked there
I recently chose to study computer games programming in university. I chose this course because the particular university I applied to teaches all the game design stuff like shaders and 3D modelling but also goes very in depth into programming in a decent number of different languages compared to other universities that focus more on how to use engines and stuff like that. However, I recently started seeing a lot of bad things being said about games degrees and how they're useless for actually getting you a good job which led me to consider switching to CompSci. I can't put my finger on how or why, but this video has all but cleared my mind of all doubt and made me even more excited about starting my game degree for some reason. Thanks man!
you were some how lucky . In my case I wait for 3 years for some one in teaching staff to teach me about game development 2005. After getting my final FYP best project of the batch I was still bagging for the gaming companies to give me a chance and then I Shift towards C# and java script but I never give up and I believe that I can still be be able to find a job in this industry.
Thank you for this video. I'm actually in a very similar boat right now. However, I'm just finishing my Bachelor of Medical Science degree but losing my passion and interest in this field. Over this past year, I find myself looking more and more into the technical aspects of graphical rendering and hardware such as real-time ray tracing, PBR, texture streaming, image compression and AI for upscaling, animations and simulations. Therefore, I've applied to start a Bachelor of Software Engineering with a Diploma of Engineering Practice which gives me opportunities for two 6-month internships during my degree and now I'm very thankful I made that decision.
3:02 I absolutely agree with you. On real life, your work experience will outweigh by a long run any degree you have, and that's why I also started working in software development via an internship that gave me work experience and pay. Now I am still working there, no longer on the internship, while I also do my software engineering on the side. Pretty hard, but fun. :)
The University im currently in didnt have the computer science degree I wanted, thats why I opted to go for their next closest degree which is Information Technology. And honestly find the class topics lacking and doesnt consist of the things I want to know more of. Your channel has been such a big help in opening up more doors of knowledge for people who are in a similar situation as I am
I'm listening to him talking about all of these work experiences, and I'm just here with no internship nor job experiences. I've only been completely focused on a research project that failed miserably for pretty much the entirety of my university years. And I'm 4th year, taking a medical break for trauma-induced depression (long f*cking story). Even if I was functioning properly like before, I am a coward. I am such a coward that I applied to a convenience store job, did the interview, got accepted, and still freaking turned it down because of "reasons" (although that was a great choice given the amount of time I was spending on the "research"). I. Am. So. Fucked.
Although, I like how the EA interview was more interested in admitting that you don't know how to solve the presented problems precisely while having a go at it nonetheless, which I think I have trained myself through lab discussions + the one thing that I despise the most is people lying about what they know and don't know especially when they are completely aware of their own shortcomings, and I have applied that thinking since I left high school (another long story).
I am honestly at same stage at my life, where you were at, I honestly thank you for sharing your experience and how you got this internship! You gave me hope that I can do the same thing like you did and work where I actually love my position
I had a chance but I actively avoided getting into games industry. I went into large scale backend engineering instead. Now I get paid much better and the work is also intellectually stimulating enough. Unlike preconceived notions, I got to work on large scale spark applications, latency sensitive applications and just usual web backends, and not pigeonholed into one specific expertise
Opportunities come along your path based on your choices ;) Great story! Love that!
4 года назад
Thanks for the insight, that was fascinating, thanks. Luck and self drive both play an equally important role. Your university contact was a game changer!...that, and your drive to change courses.
i am 43 years old and still trying get a job as video game tester with no experience so far been rejected 40 times and counting . ?i would email saying sorry the position has been filled meaning no job.? the only emails i get is rejection email from the company . don't see how playing video game tournament is experience or not .?
I graduated college 2 years ago in Communications...I really didn't enjoy it. I always wanted to do game design but I guess I never knew it until now. I don't know where to start but my end goal is to work there
I got mine by accidentally walking into an AlphaGraphics print shop in 1989. Had that one event not happened I would not have had a spectacular career. Keep your spidy sense up because the universe is always trying to show you the way at all times.
It just shows how nothing is known like anything can happen. It happens at some point. Personally I couldn’t start college right after high school and i still am kind of thinking about it and speculating if im behind or not. But it just shows that nobody is behind or ahead and we’re all on our own timeline and stuff y’know
Its crazy how much relationships matter in addition to tech skills. Good job! I really enjoy programming Arduinos because of the instant feedback you get when you work with electronic components, plus I also love physics (one of my fav subjects in highschool) which goes hand in hand with programming and circuit design. This is why I also love games that have cool circuit puzzles like Ratchet & Clank
Hi, nice story. We're almost the same age with you with the difference that in my country I only had the engeneering option of the degree and finished that. During uni I worked web development and now I'm finaly in the game industry starting from this year.
Cool video about your career! I feel the same about some decisions that ended up leading me towards where I am today. It's both amazing and frightening how minor things can have such an influence on your future. Before university and while on school I actually developed websites (basic stuff) and even did websites for some of my father's friend's companies. At 16 I already earned my own money. Two years latter I went to university to study phisics engineering (it wasn't an easy choice between physics and software) and 2 years in and after a couple of programming units (not related to web development, such as C, C++, Java, data structures) I realised that I realised that I liked programming way more than all my other units. So next year I decided to go study software engineering to another university (I went alone). But I really liked it. It was a great feeling to be studying what I really liked. I also did an internship while studying and after finishing I worked for 7 years on critical systems (such as aircraft flight controllers). However I once again have found another even bigger motivation/focus/interest that has nothing to do with software. Now I only code on my spare time when I have some "brilliant" idea. It's been great until now...
@ good question. It was somewhat important in the sense that it gave me some confidence/buffer to be able to take my time. I had been financially independent since I was 16. My dream job has always been to do something related to off-road and Africa (as I said on my post, not related to software). I had done many trips over the years with some close friends, where we drove our trucks from home to Africa and back (we live in Europe). At that point, my father needed someone else to help manage his company, business was growing. So, I decided to (take my time and) go study business and management in order to properly enroll on that new job (and I'm now studying mechanical engineering on the side because it's very useful too). At the same time, I invited my friends from the Africa trips to start a company that organizes off-road raids in northern Africa (some of them have since quit their previous job). I am super happy because even though I like software I am now actively helping on my family business after doing something on my own for some time. Also, I’m doing what I really like. At this point I could live with just the off-road business, but I’ll keep doing both.
American universities should do the same. Study for 3 years, work 1 year internship fulltime, then go back and finish. When I got my BSEE I struggled to get a job the first 6 months. Then I got the job and realized..... i dont want to do hardware. So here i am going back getting my masters in computer science and it feels like a huge set back despite the fields being relatively similar to one another.
Good evening Cherno, I'm currently studying videogames in Barcelona (Spain) because I didn't really know which path to choose (art or progamming)... What do you think about it? Do you think it was a good option? I suggest you to make a video speaking about it! And I would also like to hear you speak about the different locations to work in this industry and where the best job offers can be found. Regards from Menorca🔥💯
Damn that professor really saved you a lot of trouble, the rules at uni make sense till the absolutely fuck you over and if you don't have someone on your side they act like they are unbend-able even if it was their fault.
One problem I always have is imagining how it is to work with an incredible large codebase. How do you get a feel for what needs to be done and how you can integrate new code? I am a bit scared of this, knowing only my own projects which get complicated fast and therefore are difficult to maintain. So do I need to learn even more architecture and design or how does it work out in a bigger studio? :)
Whats your view on non CS majors doing programming in their curriculum. DO they stand a chance in the industry next to data science? I (cs) was always very amazed by my roommates (physicist) capabilities. He did have mainly (albeit very complicated) numerical topics in his computational physics courses.... but once he started to work for his thesis , he needed to pick up many advanced topics parenthetically. Did you work with any non CS scientists ever?
What do you think about making a video editing software after completing Hazel? It sounds like a very interesting work involving GPU, different effects..
I had my very first interview a week ago for an android development intern. after two days I received the call and first time heard someone appreciating my project. "Your project is pretty appreciable and we want to offer you an Internship". My interview went for 3 hours and I haven't answered all the questions correctly but maybe they like how I approach the problem. btw I love this video
I'm currently a sophomore in college and I want to start game programming in my spare time but I don't know where to start. Where did you learn game development so early?
Here we go again, I say start with unity. Maybe follow there tutorials first just to get the hang of the engine. Spend a limited amount of time on this. This step is just to just to get you acclimated and not the step in which where you learn. Real Learning comes next. Then build something you care about. Come up with an idea which is yours or maybe someone else's work that inspires you. Keep the game small, scope limited. Maybe watch "extra credits" video on "making your first game", it's very good. Limit the time you will spend on the first game. (So that it doesn't go on forever and don't you fatigue yourself) After working on your first game, you would have gained enough knowledge on what game development is all about. Next you'll yourself be able to decide which facet you would want to focus on next. Game engine design, shaders, 3d modelling, or just making more games etc You'll also be able to decide if you actually want to work with games. Why unity? Because unity has a lot of tutorials and proper documentation to get you started. It's the easiest for those who are starting out. Basically it's the fastest at allowing you to get up to speed on game development.
Do you have any plan to change a new RHI such as DirectX 12 or Vulkan in your engine, because you know although there would always be a cross compiler, there is no ray-tracing feature in OpenGL.
Will you ever do a video about *Rust Language* and your opinion about it? And what for future you see for it in the gaming industry? Or are you all hate against Rust because of the falacy of only thinking the stuff you know is best? Just wondering what you think about Rust. (I understand it's still way too young for AAA games though) I also understand that Rust was not present back in the time when you studied software engineering. And there was no competition for C/C++ aswell and it's not yet used alot in the Gaming industry. Do they talk about Rust in the gaming industry alot for example..
Is there advice based on your experience you can give to self taught programmers with no degree? People who have the same drive and focus as you but absolutely just can not get into college.
I clicked this video to find out if you also had a friend (like I did), who was already working in a game company.. I wonder if this is the most common way to get hired? :) Personally I was not hired as an intern, but directly as an artist, but very similar story otherwise. I like your youtube series on c++ and the game engine, keep it up, you are doing great :)
Alot of people get jobs like this but no one mentions it. If more people knew this, alot of people wouldn't be struggling as much when it comes to finding jobs they want.
4 года назад
@@technesis6574 So what happens if you don't have a lucky contact to open that door? You'll find that the vast majority of folk get a job the hard way, though of course, none of them would turn down lady luck - it's just that the luck component is so small for most folks, unfortunately, and this reflects strongly how much real enjoyment they get back from their jobs.
