That's beyond weird I agree, makes totally no sense. Also, it's the idea that she is putting them through unnecessary suffering when Rhaenyrs could have said that Laenor was still alive. I also didn't like when Rhaenys had a go at Alicent about "serving men" when she pretty much does the same thing herself. There are a number of choices which make little sense, in the way they've gone about things.
@@663lotty i think Rhaenyra telling the truth would have been worse for her, if they knew they all did that so she could marry Daemon, Rhaenyra had to propose marriages AGAIN to gain them back as allies, if she didnt she would have lost them or at least they would have remained neutral. Rhaenys telling Alicent that made 0 sense to me after how she ask her husband to make Baela heir and he refuses becase he wants Luke as heir, she later defends his husband desires in front of viserys so she's trapped in the same system alicent it is.
Practically removing Daeron from the show also served the clear purpose to build bias against the Greens. There was very little bad you could say about him, and that is something the showrunners did not want.
@@a_takajedna He was indeed mentioned in the most recent episodes. He's been in Oldtown apparently. Which makes sense, he was sent to ward with the Hightowers in the book canon, being Ormund's Cupbearer and Squire.
I think they made Aegon irremediably evil, being a rapist and sadist who enjoys seeing children fight. They could have made him a uninspired drunkard and womanizer in season 1 with hints at being a potentially good king once he receives the people's affection. Making him a rapist and child sadist makes him in my eyes completely unlikeable.
if they're going by mushroom's account on things, which is the only source where aegon is said to be a rapist and sadist, then they gotta at least put in all the horrible shit about rhaenyra or anyone on the mold cluster
Rhaenyra raped Criston, and Jaime raped Cersei once, but fans still love Rhaenyra and Jaime. It’s not that irredeemable for a character to be a rapist. Only difference is people loved those two characters before they even did the raping. The way we’re introduced to adult aegon, he is shown as a rapist pretty early on, so that’s how people will remember him for a while
@@thalmoragent9344 Rumors + theories. Plus you can be gay and say homophobic shit. Rhaenyra is a massive hypocrite - consider her comments about Nettles and other bastards about their innate nature while she herself has three of them.
@perseusveil9376 Yeah, that's also very true. I can't WAIT to see if she says that in the show 😅 won't that be something? Really curious to see how it all goes honestly, as I'm sure you are as well
@@thalmoragent9344 I am! But nah, they would never allow her to say fucked up shit haha specially because Nettles will be black. She was super classist with her, you can even argue that she was racist. Not going to happen, Show Rhaenyra is a flawless angel.
I have been saying this for the longest while now and here is what I find. Most Black supporters also happen to be Daenerys fans and they literally seen Rhaenyra as the new Dany who in their view can redeem the "injustice" of season 8. I remember being very excited when I heard that the Dance of Dragons was coming to screen, what I loved about it especially from reading Fire and Blood and also Princess and the Queen is that no side was truly good or truly evil, just a lot of morally grey characters, but House of Dragon destroyed that narrative entirely in favour of a clear Rhaenyra bias.
I read the book, and I watch the show . I'm also black supporters. But it has nothing to do with Dany. I hated the Greens in the book, and I never understood their support. I also hate the Greens in the show.
I haven't read the books so knew nothing about any of the characters prior to watching the show. And after watching the show I'm a black supporter. It's nothing to do with being bias, people are going to like certain characters whether other people like them or not. Being ok with people supporting the greens but not the blacks is just hypocrisy
@@rosita3528 you missed the entire point of the video. It's not about whether it's OK to like the blacks or greens. The point of the video is that the show takes a slant towards liking the blacks while the book narrative gives a more nuanced viewpoint. In the show, its a clear case of black (no pun intended) and white but in the book there are so many shades of grey, that's the whole point. There is nothing hypocritical in wanting the on-screen portrayal to stay true to the original narrative
@@truetory6231 like I said, I haven't read the books but so many book readers post spoilers everywhere so what I do know is thar in the books Daemon didn't kill his wife because he was at the stepstones, and Aemond killing Lucerys wasnt an accident and they made Alicent less evil. So in the show, the made Daemon kill his wife, they made Aemond killing Lucerys an accident and the made Alicent more sympathetic. So no I don't think the show is completely bias towards the blacks
@@rosita3528 the show also made Rhaenyra far more sympathetic in the show than in the books whereas Aegon is turned from a ladies man in the books to a rapist in the show, that was most definitely an unnecessary change designed for one purpose only.
They most certainly are biased towards Rhaenyra. They really toned her evils down and Daemons in the show versus the books. I’m not saying the greens are innocent little angels but they did them dirty. Aegon was a lecher and drunk but he wasn’t a full on rapist. They made him more evil on purpose. I think they favor Rhaenyra because of Daenerys and modern society feminism girlpower
I agreed, i don't excuse Aegons actions but i think the showrunners introducing him for the first time time a drunk rapist was made with the purpose of him being disliked so people believe that being on the green side means you support that, what he did its wrong but i do think first introductions matters because thats how the audience will perceive them, Daemon hows done a lot of things wrong yet the audience seeing as this cool character.
Everybody kinda forget that we talking about a society long before Dany, which always was ruled by the first born sons, never it was about daughters in the first place, which duty always was about childbirth. And this people really expected to see, how everybody instantly accept such a drastic changes of hundred years laws and traditions in favour of Rhaynera? While Viserys have 3 son which more fit for this. Even in season 8 Dany understands that Jon have much more rights for the Throne then she ever had. No matter what she did to become Queen, he is a heir, not her.
No matter how hard they tried to villanize Alicent over Rhaenyra. But I never saw it. Alicent was a good friend, queen, and mother. Always trying to do the right thing. While Rhyaerya spend the entire time upset about her place and trying to make herself happy instead of readying to be the best queen she could be to prove the entire realm wrong...
i keep seeing the same pattern in some subreddits when they mention her: self-righteous....which is weird. someone who tries to be honorable in how she carry herself as queen is self-righteous? lol
@9razzler9 Yeah, I think that's crazy lol. but I guess can see what they're trying to say. Self-righteous in the way she carries herself by being honorable and putting herself second to duties. but I guess if you wanna go down that road, you have to go down ethics, principles, moralities, honor, and Duty... which is all a man-made construct. But I think generally speaking the majority of the world can somewhat agree on What is honorable and morally correct and what isn't.
But in all honesty, would a “good friend” marry your father? Pledge an oath to support your claim to the throne but in the end turn on that oath. I think your comment just proves it’s hard not to have a biased view when discussing this story.
@@sethh1943A friend who obey her father and even after rhaenyra left she was supporting rhaenyra. Until Vesris said ageon will unite the kingdom. How is alicent supposed to know he was talking about the prophecy. If she really believed that Vesris wasn't talking about thire ageon why would she defend rhaenyra against the council. Why will she be freaking out. Why will she even tell ageon not to kill rhaenyra
Last year when the House of Dragon first aired i remember i was a total team black fan, i was rooting for Ranerhya and dameon and rhanerhyas succession to the iron throne. However, as i continued to watch i noticed a lot of negative traits in Rhaneryah and team black personality and values. The first thing i noticed is that i feel like people are rooting for Rhanerya because Shes a woman and they want to see a strong female lead fighting for what she believes in and what is her right. Although i think people forget that this takes place in a period where woman were not heard and had no power, people are forgetting that this is not taking palace in a society that we live in today. The reality is that the directors filmed this in an away as if it was taking place in a period were women had more liberation. . However, the first questionable approach i had towards rhanerya was when she lied to Alicent about having outside affairs and then got her father kicked out of the palace, although she did not have affairs with Dameon but, she still did though and then lied about it. The second thing was when she took advantage of Ser Cristion Cole, ruined his image self esteem and potentially could have gotten him killed. The third was when Rhanerya had an oppunrnity to court other men and instead destroyed it by being rude and arrongant, and yes people say that she was young ect but if she is planning to be a female queen she should carry herself as if she was by demanding respect instead of using it to be spoiled. The fourth was when Rhanerya [son not sure which one], stab Alicents son in eye and she did not discipline him for what he did or even discipline him for teasing him for not having a dragon, meanwhile she just expects her dad to fight all her battles. The final straw for me is that Rhanerya is trying to put illegimante children on the Iron throne, yes, Alicents children are crazy in their own way however at least all her children are legimate Targarenyas that are supposed to sit on the iron throne. However, these are just my opinion and how i feel about it hope it all makes sense.
Makes total sense. I agree with you in that I felt the same way. I was Team Black in the beginning, but then I started to see all of the crazy things that Rhaenyra and her faction were doing. Even when you read the books it's kinda obvious that Rhaenyra was not competent nor did she carry herself like the queen that she wanted to be. She's a spoiled princess who has a lot of entitlement issues. She wants the throne but she doesn't realize that it comes with a lot of responsibilities, duties and an adherence with the rules. Rather, she is a rule-breaker and she doesn't care about custom, tradition, duties, nothing. So, even though I can understand the plight of a young woman feeling oppressed by a patriarchal and misogynistic society like Westeros, I just don't think that she was the best person to put forward as a candidate for the monarchy. The only true reason why I lean more towards The Greens is because, even though Aegon is incompetent himself, the people who serve him are very competent and effective. They have experience governing well and they can potentially mold him into being a better ruler. There's nothing in the book that suggests that Aegon II was mad or incapable of learning. He probably drank a lot, yes, but it always seemed to me like the true masterminds behind his reign were his mother, his grandfather, and Ser Criston Cole. Say what you want about all these people, but they did rule well, and they ultimately gave the Seven Kingdoms peace and plenty. The Blacks cannot boast he same.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 tbf and I haven't read the books and am basing on wiki so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they steal the treasury when Rhaenyra and Daemon invaded?? Rhaenyra's decision to fill up the treasury again was not good... and I believe she was also easily ruled by her council like her own Mistress of Whispers who whispered stuff about Nettles.
@@figuringitout796 not "stolen" as at the time, the council was still made of people indicated by the old king, whem KL fall towards the blacks is imminent, Tyland Lannister decides to send the treasure in parts to Oldtown, Lannisport, the Iron Bank of Braavos and the rest they spent hiring sellswords like the Triarchy
I always thought it was weird because arent the Blacks essentially the Lannister in this story, with a bunch of illegitimate kids, the Greens seem to be more along the lines of Stannis with a much stronger claim to the throne, i always ask the peoples who root for the Blacks if they were also rooting for Cersei and her illegitimate kids
Maybe, it's unpopular opinion, but yes, I do root for Cerseu. The only person who in patrirchal world that has right to question child's parentage is legal father. Neither Laneor nor Robert ever denounced their children. In eyes of law, those kids are legitimate. So, yeah, I support Cerceis' children claim. I think it was very dumb and unjust from Ned and Stannis, they try act and usurp throne. Joffrey should be overthrown but because hewas terrible person and tyrant, not becuase of his alleged legitimacy. You cannot prove someone is bastard in this world, a stehre is no genetic tests. Only father can denounce child - Robert is dead and Laneor acknowledge children. If I would read story of Stannis in historical book I would think he is envious uncle who tried stole his nephews throne, not that his claim is stronger". Tommen or Myrcelle should get crown, not Stannis. Finally, even if you think Velaryon boys heritage is dubious, Rhaneyra still has two legitimate sosn - so if ANYOEN is to question older boys legitimacy, it's ONLY their younger brothers. Not whole other branch.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Robert Baratheon doesn't have to denounce his child when we have outsider knowledge of who actually is a true born baratheon, you are taking Cersei's side in a purely contrarian stance, not an objective one By the Kingdoms own laws and Gods, Joffrey is illegitimate
@@Jostyy By Kingdom Law, Joffrey and his siblings are legitimate, as they were acknowledged as such by Robert. None can prove otherwise, as making genetic test is impossible. Theer ar emany Royals whose legitimacy were questioned, but they were acknowledged by their father so they bore father's surnames. As Corlys said: "History does not remember blood. It remembers names".
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 but we are talking as outsiders judging a story we have full knowledge of We KNOW Joffrey is illegitimate and so why would you root for an illegitimate King? Or Cersei who wants to keep him there for very self serving goals Unlike history, we have this story laid out to us and are given the information of who is right or wrong We judge them externally, outside of the world of ASOIAF trying to reframe this as "well we wouldn't know in world!" Completely ignored the context of the video we are commenting on and what my comment was about When we have the information shown who is legitimate or not, to chose to root for the illegitimate is just purely of contrarian nature since people in general lean towards what's Fairer or Just
@@Jostyy First of all - I am NOT rooting for Joffrey as person. I am rooting for his siblings. Second - and do you think that Stannis conisdered himself martyr because he had to now becoming Kings instead of doing whatever he was doing till now??? Stannis was just ambitious as Cersei. He wanted crown because he was selfish and power hungry. I am on law side - and from law side we don't have nothing against Cesrei's children. Were they acknowledged by Robert? Yes. Had he renounced them? No. Is there any possible way to prove they aren't legitimate? No, there isn't. So case is CLOSED. Everyone hates Joffrey because he is terrible human being, but what if Joffrey was kind and caring individual, loved by people and Stannis was ambitious brute? (I mean - he was, he burnt alive his own daughter, and not only her, but whatever.) If Joffrey was kind person, people would cheer for him. But he isn't and Cersei loves her brother, so people view them as deviant. But I ownder what if Joffrey was kind and Jaime wasn't her brother... In eyes of law they are Baratheons. Thta's all what matters. Stannis is here selfish usurper. Cersei is also selfish - but she at least has law at her side. And she doesn't burn her children on her lovers demand.
I felt like after the timeskip Rhaenyra seemed almost like an entirely different character, and I don't just mean in terms of the actor's performance. Both actors did a fine job, but post-time skip it just doesn't feel like that's the person the child would grow up to be. I know time wears people down, but no matter how you wear someone down the core is still there under the surface.
@@thecriticalmaester9702yes please because I always say this! Loved Rhaenyra when she was young but older Rhaenyra just seems so not Rhaenyra like I cannot explain it
Even Aemond feels odd on the show as he is arguably one of the least redeemable Green's in the books, but seems to be the most redeemable out of the Green's on the show, despite being the one who technically begins the war. (excluding Helaena of course, everyone loves her)
I'm Team Rhaenyra i don't blame her for what she did what the greens put her threw stealing her thrown that her father named her his heir n 2nd in line when he dies n they betrayed her n allicent son murdered her son
@@MICHAELMYERS37 right I’m not understanding why they don’t get it? Her brother killed her son? And another brother usurped her, although he was put up to it by his mother
I agree, i don't like the way they treated the green queen, they took away all her agency in the show while in the book she and Rhaenyra are both shown as being equally ambitious and determined to get to their common goal ( the iron throne) . they turned the green queen into a weak , easy to manipulate woman.
Yeah, that's right. I think you might be talking about my previous video, though 😆 But still, thank you for watching and liking the content. 💯 P.S. I think that on the show, they reduced Rhaenyra's ruthless ambition almost absolutely, and they replaced it with a sense of duty towards her father and his prophecy (A Song of Ice and Fire). It's a nice tie-in to the books, but it gives her character a lot less agency in my opinion. I might do a video on that as well at some point, just to delve a bit into that topic. Subscribe and stay tuned for that future content. 😉
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I just wished the show stayed as close as possible to the original tae and its characters . Dance of the dragons was my favorite I&F lore story . I know most people who comments about this show are huge fans , I comment because i would have wanted to be a huge fan but got disappointed by all the plot changes
@@eglantinepapeau1582 Yeah, me too. There are some changes on the show that I actually really liked, but there were a lot more of them that I really really hated. I'm on the same boat as you - they should've tried to stay as close to the source material as possible. I respect Ryan Condal for trying, but Dave & Dan did the same thing too at the beginning of Game of Thrones, and then they started to deviate further and further until eventually the story became unrecognizable. I hope that the same thing won't happen with this show, because the story in the book is perfect as it is (in my opinion). 🤷♂
@@thecriticalmaester9702 that's right , these screenwriters nowadays think they can do "better" than authors like Tolkien or RR Martin, lol . as a consequence they are now being made fun of as they should .
My biggest problem with Rhaenyra being heir is that, not only did she try to pass off bastards as trueborn kids, which got people killed, but she also does not want to familiarize herself with her nation's bureaucracy. If I were Rhaenyra, the moment Otto gets fired, I'd work to get the position of Hand or at least get someone close to me to become Hand, and work with them to study how the kingdom runs. I'd work day and night to make sure the bureaucracy of the nation runs smoothly, and I'd be paying attention to every detail and problem in the realm. Hell, I'd probably save myself for Aegon II, so I can solidify my hold on the throne by wedding the king's only male heir. Getting Aegon II as my spouse and working hard with the bureaucracy would mean that when Viserys kicks the bucket, I'd be perfectly positioned to take over, as I can use Aegon II to reinforce my claim to the throne, and since I'd be running the kingdom before that, getting crowned would barely be a formality. Instead, Rhaenyra would rather engage in follies and not familiarize herself with the mundane aspects of ruling. I believe this is a mistake. If she wants to be queen that badly, the first thing she should do is learn how to rule.
@@Chasingdreams25None of the 3 would admit otherwise because by doing it, would mean admitting Rhaenyra commited treason, that's why they're passing them as Laenor's 'trueborn kids' even when they know its not.
I have written an entire article about how bias the show is against the greens and posted it once on Reddit. It pains me a lot because love the show. Great Video.
@@yasmina3999 Here is what i had written : title : The showrunners don't want you to side with the greens or to think that they are the rule of law and order. I. Beyond the Bastards: Rhaenyra's Claim to the Throne Though the show emphasized the illegitimate status of Rhaenyra Targaryen's sons as a weakness in her claim to the throne, it neglected to address whether her ascension was legally justified by any means. Rhaenyra's claim is problematic, as it relies on the desires of her father rather than any established laws or precedents. If the lords of the seven kingdoms were unwilling to support the stronger claim of Rhaenys due to their adherence to tradition and their preference for a male heir, then it is doubtful that they would rally behind Rhaenyra, who not only has a weaker claim but also appear to be putting the stability of the realm in danger by planning to get obvious bastards on the throne. The oaths of fealty that they swore to Viserys, taken in the absence of a trueborn son, hold little weight compared to centuries of traditional practices. The fact that they later assumed a loss of status for Rhaenera after the birth of Aegon further illustrates this point. II. Is there a limit to Royal Authority in Westeros? The show failed to adequately clarify the extent of the king's power to alter laws of succession that helped him ascend to the throne. Viserys stated: “Even I do not exist above tradition and duty”, implying that he does not hold sway over the customs and is bound to fulfill his duties as king. However, we have also heard him say: ”I did not decide the name Rhaenyra my heir on a whim”, suggesting that he is powerful enough to select his successor. These two contradictory statements live the audience unsure about the method of succession and are reasons why many of them believe that Rhaenyra is the rightful heir only because Viserys chose her. When it comes to succession, the Great Council established precedent. If a king's decrees hold absolute authority, what is the value of a king's decree alongside the written order of the entire feudal realm? If a king ignores precedent, the following questions arise to guard against tyranny: is this reversal whimsical? Is the king considering the consequences? Do the parties that established the precedent approve? Did the king come to power through this same precedent? The answers to these questions reveal that only through the Great Council can we view Viserys's decision as dangerous, not due to the issue of male versus female succession, but due to the potentially arbitrary nature of the nobility's allowance of the king's authority. It is safe to say that either the showrunners overlooked this crucial aspect of the story despite it being a key factor in the Greens' justifications and the same factor that ironically brought Viserys to power or they chose to retcon it for the benefit of their audience. The doctrine of exceptionalism is enough evidence to believe that Westeros is not entirely at the mercy of their king's wishes and desires. The king in a feudal society such as Westeros is powerful only when he is supported by the ruling entities of his kingdom. There is a limit to his power. III. The Importance of Jaehaerys’s Great Council Jaehaerys the conciliator played a crucial role in establishing the legal order and stability of the Targaryen royal project and the feudal consensus in Westeros. He was known for his wisdom and fairness and worked to reconcile differences between various factions within the realm. He was a skilled politician and diplomat and was able to maintain peace and stability throughout his long reign. Viserys, by comparison, pales in comparison to the esteemed reputation of Jaehaerys. His calling of a great council, composed of the lords and nobles of the Seven Kingdoms, to discuss the matter of succession set a precedent that shaped the ascension to the throne. “The Iron throne could not pass to a woman or to a male descendant through a woman”. No matter how unfair this may sound, it is the standing backed by the nobles of Westeros. A mistake we often make is trying to see Westeros by choosing our world as a reference. It is only by looking at Westeros through the eye of Westerosi people that we may make sense of the things happening on that continent. Male primogeniture preference has been their norm, their tradition. If Andal law is refuted by some recalling the fact that Targaryens aren't Andals, not all of Westeros follow Andal law …., the Great Council however cannot have the same treatment because of its representativeness of an entire ruling class, it is the lords who voted for an heir. Verily, until the way of succession is altered by a similar council or a written law approved by all of the entities of Westeros, it shall remain as set forth by the Great Council. VI. The Removal of Alicent's Motives, the Obsession with Rhaenyra. It is worth noting that in the book, Alicent was not a childhood friend of Rhaenyra; rather, she was a young friend of the Old King Jaehaerys, whom she would read stories to him as he lay dying. The decision to change the character of Alicent from being a friend of Jaehaerys to a friend of Rhaenyra was a subtle but significant alteration to her character. It meant that Alicent could no longer refer back to her childhood or to the service she rendered to Jaehaerys for precedent and justification for her actions; she could only look to Rhaenyra. This meant that everything Alicent did from that point on would be based on Rhaenyra, and her character would therefore not be independent of the princess. This is why many have shipped Alicent and Rhaenyra as a romantic couple on social media; the writers effectively reduced Alicent to the role of a junior lover in a cheap romance, rather than allowing her to develop into a fully realized political agent in her own right. V. The Sabotage of the Greens The showrunners have demonstrated an inability to effectively convey the complex political motivations of the characters in the Dance of the Dragons. They have eliminated the political framework and context that defined the factions in the conflict, ignoring crucial issues such as Targaryen exceptionalism, the rights of the nobles, the rights of precedent, and the plight of the common people (so far). They have even erased 90% of the Stepstones, a key event in Daemon's career and mindset. By focusing the show on Rhaenyra, they have effectively cast it from her perspective, rendering the Greens as traitors to the audience and the script. This has led to the portrayal of Daemon as 'dangerous, but cool' and Aemond as a maniac, while legalistic arguments are only considered in relation to their benefits for Rhaenyra. The Green Council, which in the book was a re-cast of the Great Council a generation earlier, debating many of the same issues and repeatedly referencing the precedents and rulings of Jaehaerys, is presented in the show as an obsession with denying Rhaenyra's claim solely because she is a woman. Instead of debating law, Otto debates murder. Instead of championing her sons, Alicent champions Rhaenyra. Instead of executing Beesbury after hours of him filibustering and obstructing proceedings, Ser Criston accidentally bonks his head on the table in a sudden fit of rage just seconds into Beesbury's opening speech. The Greens are effectively doomed from the start of the show, with only Rhaenyra being seen as important and relevant to every person on the continent, even though in the book she was actually the plight of the underdog. This focus on a single character as being so central and significant to every aspect of the story is the primary error of the show, and it began in Episode 1 - or even earlier, when the showrunners failed to fully engage with the source material. As a result, political complexity is impossible in the show, and this problem will only worsen in future seasons. VI. What Can We Expect for the Future Without either a strong framework for political complexity or a strong sense of relativity in character writing, it is unlikely that the show will improve upon these flaws in future seasons. Season 2 is likely to exacerbate these problems significantly. The Green Council and the years preceding it were the times when the Greens honed their finest arguments and developed their character arcs. Everything that comes after is not about Otto, Alicent, or Aegon making arguments, but rather about defending the conclusions they have already reached. The only conclusions that are presented for the Green side as the war begins in the show are that "women can't rule, patriarchy, Alicent is still obsessed with Rhaenyra, Aegon is a rapist but Otto doesn't care because he's Littlefinger lite." Overall, the plot of the show is not salvageable, it failed the Greens before even the start of the dance. And while the battles may provide some interesting and spectacular CGI television, there will be little to hold viewers' conflicted about which side to root for. With the killing of the greens' legal arguments, it is clear that their efforts to seize the throne render them the antagonists of the story, regardless of any subsequent offers of peace. The blacks, on the other hand, are portrayed as reacting to aggression while seeking to avoid war, making them the heroes in the eyes of the audience. The show's portrayal of the Dance of the Dragons (so far) falls short in its representation of the complexity and nuance of the source material. Rather than delving into the depths of the story, it reduces the narrative to a superficial and oversimplified depiction, primarily the purpose of spectacle and the heroification of Rhaenyra Targaryen as a "Dany 2.0”. House of the Dragon could have been a more well-rounded and complex adaptation of the Dance of the dragons.
They actually made the show even more biased than it already is. And also making Aemond not loyal to the green is fucking crazy and it just shows the writers have no idea how to adapt this book
They did this with the Lannisters especially in the first season. They do this all the time, they make us love a character only to find out later that we misjudged them, or hate it only to sympathize with it later on. I believe in later seasons they will l reverse the roles a bit and start showing the Blacks doing some terrible things, and make us more sympathetic towards the Greens.
They will surely do a Rhaenyras fall arc. For the redemtion of the greens however there are not enough time or material, I doubt that they will try to do it. And about Daemon... he is already shown a worse person than he is in the books, so you do not need to make him look bad more.
@@thedoomofvalyria6466 I agree with you on the Rhaenyra's "fall arc" part. She already had that Daenerys "Dracarys look" in her eyes in the last shot. However I never really used the word "redemption" in reference to the Greens. All I said is that they tried to make us hate their side all season long (in season 1) and instead root for Rhaenyra's. But I believe in later seasons they're bond to make us 'sympathize' with them a little bit. I mean they just LOVE to emotionally confuse us on that show 😂 As for Daemon, yes, I agree with you also, I think they've already successfully established that he's a really complex character, in season 1, and I don't think this is really ever going to change for him for the remainder of the show.
I think the biggest problem of this bias is that they never hold accountable Rhaenyra for her irresponsability. She herlsef ruined her claim by having bastard children, and we're supposed to just roll with it? nah. We're supposed to forget the fact she implied Aemond to be tortured for saying her children are bastards, even though he just recently lost his eye because of her own children? they showed us they indeed did a lot of bs, but the show doesn't hold them accountable. And is infuriating that regular fans don't do it either (specially targ/dany fans)
It's truly unfortunate just how things turned out in this respect given how wonderful an opportunity they had to make a very morally complex civil war story. I feel that many of Aegon's future triumphs and tragedies are going to fall rather flatly with the audience given how he has little characterization, nearly all of which is negative.
The one saving grace I think will be the actor playing him. I thought in episode nine he was excellent when he did the walk down and displayed the emotions he felt, for actually feeling supported, instead of being manipulated. I can't wait to see what he does with Aegon going forward.
My thing is the show did so well at slogging the blacks, that 80% of fans think it was totally fine Aemond was attacked and lost an eye. Even cheering for a child having got his eye gouged out. Propaganda is wild.
Truth. They also ignore the fact that a)The other kids were the instigators who attacked him and he only defended himself and b)That he had Joffrey in his hand about to hit him with a rock, but dropped it instead and showed mercy(with Luke drawing his dagger right after).
Right! When I watched some reactions to that episode I was shocked by people’s favoritism. And the audacity of Rhaenyra after Aemond lost his eye… crazy. Finally, some sane people here :D Was team green in season 1 for sure.💚
The Black bias in HotD is what undermines the whole story from F&B. At the heart of the original story was a tale about two factions who were equally justified in seeking succesion claims, but saw their goals derailed by poor decision making by the main players, particularly Visarys, Otto, and Rhaenyra. For me, the story always read as a homologous set of errors, not as a fight between the Brady Bunch and the Adam's Family, which is how the Greens are portrayed in this series. I do like the show overall, but I do feel that some of the character/plot changes were completely unnessary.
There's a ton of bias from the writers for individual characters too. We all know the clear bias for Team Black but for instance they make Aemond a bit better in the first season than his book version but it's only bc the writers themselves liked Aemond and more specifically the actor playing him so they're more lenient. But the other Green characters? Well, they give Aegon hardly any scenes or show anything characterization like how he has one of the strongest bonds of any Targaryen with dragon Sunfyre and the scenes he does show up in are only to make him the evil villain. Same with thing done to Otto. For Helaena, they give her no characterization or humanizing scenes. Not even with her kids which is already undermining the attachment the viewers should have for her and her children when B&C happens. Alicent is a bit of both. In some regards they make the audience sympathize with her but in others they remove a lot of her reasonings that were present in the book. Namely she supports Aegon in the books because she feels by law that his birthright is being stolen in addition to being fearful of his life. However the show completely removes most of Team Greens political justifications for why they're going with Aegon. Instead Alicent in the show is mostly portrayed to be motivated mainly by Rhaenyra not being her friend anymore and lying to her about sleeping around
They aren't "equally justified". Rhaneyra is heir and ONLY her claim is justified. Aegon is usurper who took crown not because she was a bad ruler, but because she wasn't a man.
I kinda hate Rhaenyra’s depiction the most, and it’s why I had to stop watching the show tbh. The show wants you to see her as the main protagonist and as the character to feel sorry for and root for. In reality, though, so many of the narrative’s issues trace back to her. She wants the Iron Throne and complains often about how her being a woman has made her journey to it much harder. All the while, she is given a clear cut path, and yet decides to fool around and have obvious bastards. This tarnishes her reputation a bit and makes things harder for her overall, and yet she gets mad at others (Alicent, mainly) for using it to their advantage in their own bids for the throne. As if none of them have the right to want what she does. Incredibly spoiled. She also bases her claim to the throne on being the King’s daughter, yet she ignores the fact that her father only got the throne because another woman in her family was screwed over for her birthright because she was a woman. So Rhaenyra bases her claim to the throne on being her father’s eldest child, even though she is a woman, despite the fact that this rule would have stopped her father from ever being King in the first place. It just makes Rhaenyra seem entitled and selfish tbh, especially since we’re supposed to hold the “Queen That Never Was” as some sort of role model for her.
This genuinely makes her one of my most hated Targs. She's reached a new level of self importance and entitlement, which says a lot considering her competition in the family.
Your arguments don't hold water. There was no "rule" against women being the ruler. That's why Rhaenys was considered. Jaherys chose his heir via the great council. Viserys chose his heir more directly. There is nothing inconsistent about this. As far as "many issues being able to be traced back to Rhaenyra" not really. Maybe it's different in the books but in the show this is all pretty clearly a result of Otto Hightower being a relentlessly ambitious snake, and Viserys being kind of weak. Rhaenyra didn't really cause any of this. The only thing she did do was give birth to bastards, and kind of obviously, but the dialogue suggests her and Laenor tried many times and it was more him who wanted to give up than her. Yeah maybe she should have pressed it like Margaery did with Renly (but then again we don't know the she didn't try to that extent). Oh actually I suppose she fucked Cristin Cole. Bad move. But alicent fucking pardoned that psychopathic murderer off screen in a way that's kinda hard to believe is possible actually.
The reason i support Green is Viserys Hypocrisy. He is fine being King but he choose her own daughter instead his son. That's like dismissing his own throne. Deep down we know Vaemond soeaking the truth. Rhanerya child not even legitimate.😁
I really don’t understand: Corlys knew that it’s not his biological grandsons, and yet still chose Luke for heir of Driftmark. When he can choose one of his biological granddaughters. He was always mad and salty about his wife didn’t become Queen, why the hell he can’t do that to change? Or patriarchy works when it needed to be, huh?
The thing is he said she was heir and that was the end of that talk. Other than that, she set herself up for failure. She mothered bastards, alienated lords and ladies, and did not set herself up to understand ruling after viserys couldn’t tell her what to do.
Thinking the greens are the vilains is such an npc take lmao. Viserys robbed his own son of his rightful claim to the throne, breaking centuries of laws and tradition to give it to his daughter instead because she's his favorite child. All the greens did was correct that mistake while Rhaenyra selfishly decided to wage war and tear the realm apart instead of just accepting Aegon as her king. In the eyes of the law she never had any claim on the throne to begin with
Lol in the show they're more the villains. Viserys didn't rob his son as he name rhaenara his heir long before he was even born. So if anything shed been the one robbed if he changed his mind when had a son. Tradition is all fine and dandy but at end of the day the kings word is law. Most his council was plotting to betray him before he even died lol. Then as extra insult to viserys they killed everyone they could who wanted to keep loyal to him even after his death. Would think they'd at least kept them prisoner to keep their houses in line. But yea lets not admit in the show they're the villains lol. I never read the books though been wanting to. I would even like if they'd stick more to the original story. But is what it is the story on the show is the one they're telling. Can't look at it through the lense of the book but by what see in the show.
@@dannyknight8305 He kinda did only in the sense that in order for him to get the throne, he passed over multiple decent female candidates. Also it's a feudal monarchy so the king's does have to set an example. Also he halfassed his so called word - he didn't groom his successor to rule, have another oath ceremony after Aegon's birth, etc
Lol, I’m surprised how easily people got convinced. I was team Green as soon as Rhaenyra in the show decided to run away to Dragonstone, rather than staying in King’s Landing while her father was alive to consolidate power and EARN her position. I don’t think you should be entitled to be King/Queen. Aegon had a team of people behind him, so his team deserves it more more tbh. Lazy people shouldn’t be rewarded power.
The worst thing that daemon and rhaenyra did was let rhaehnys and corlys believe that their son Laenor is dead. Even years later after they get married and have a bunch of kids they still don't tell them the truth that their son is still alive in essos somewhere. That's the most unbelievable part, that even though they suspect they were the ones that killed their son so they could be together they still choose to support her claim for the throne
In book Laenor for sure is dead, but Corlys and Rhaneys still support Rhaneyra. They had no other choice - none can proove Rhaneyra anything and all of their grandchildren (both biological and legal) are on Rhaenyra's side. By suuporting Rhaenyra, Corlys and his wife are protecting their remaining family members. It does not matter wheter Laenor is dead or who really disposed him - Jacaerys, Joffrey, Baela and Rhaena are alive and are supporting Rhaenyra, so grandparents had to also be.
@@andorea11 This whole situation is poor writing. Choosing random person doesn't really have much sense and also doesn't fit show-Rhaenyra personality and personality of Laenor. She just said "you are honourable man with goood heart". And this "good man" would really despose some innocent? I like to believe this guy who was put in his place was for example political spy or something and that's he was chosen - because he would be killed anyway. Instead of execution he simply got broken neck.
I agree, my biggest issue is the treatment of the women (Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, and Alicent) as peaceful and those trying to avoid war at all cost but it just comes across as them either making dumb decisions or them being reliant on men(as you showed with Rhaenys) which goes against the show’s attempt at showing “girl power.” The connections bet. these three female characters are so weak yet the show tries to make them seem real deep like Rhaeny’s and Alicent bonding over their roles as mothers.
Yea agreed, they fell into the “strong female lead” trap. By wanting the woman to be stronger and better than everyone else they end up making a flat character that’s less interesting than they might have been.
i hate it even more when it's the older men around them that want war. i just know the writers are thinking that it makes it seem like men are savages, but it's just the men calling these women stupid. and they are. and they're not supposed to be
Exactly. Rhaenyra was way more bloodthirsty in the book. Alicent was also more cunning and politcally savvy but she only wanted to fight to keep her kids alive. Rhaenyra fought because she thought she was entitled to the throne. Rhaenys wasn’t featured as much as Rhaenyra and Alicent but she was also more than willing to fight.
@@eeyun5279which might be why the audience is more interested in Daemon or Aemond. Nobody likes boring characters. Daemon, Aemond, and even Cole are more interesting than the female leads.
The bias is only worse with Season 2. Taking away Rhaenyra's agency for Blood and Cheese, removing Nettles as a character, making the Greens seem more dysfunctional, framing the Sewing of the Seeds as a smart and humbling move instead of a desperate bad idea that would have bad consequences. It's getting worrying how much they're tilting it.
@@Psychoshell Yeah, definitely. This channel is dedicated to them - is in support of the Green side. For me, they are far more fascinating characters (perhaps with the exception of Daemon from the Black faction).
@@thecriticalmaester9702In the books the green's king seemed like a decent person definitely not outright evil at least so I understand why you'd support them using the books versions but the greens in the show are absolutely terrible in every way shape and form their is no redeeming qualities that even come close to the blacks side, so I don't understand how you could be on their side if you are referring to the shows version.
A lot of team black fans are just, so hard headed with this its not even worth trying to discuss. Other people seeing the greens pov will legit get death threats from other fans who dissagree. The showrunners really gotta tone down the romanticizing everything Team Black. And feels like its sorta going that way with Daemon doing the weirdest shit, his fans upset because hes not doing hero things like killing his wife, but instead goint down on his mom. Thats actually made them upset but its like, this story doesnt end well yet they still hold onto some generic hero journey.
even from a directing and cinematography stand point, the Greens are always shot in dark brooding backgrounds and Rhaenyra always seems to have a halo or glow around her. they act like the sun shines out of her arse and its bloody irritating!
I'm coming here after watching S2. Before it started, I was aware after reading the book that the show would need to put A LOT of work to start redeeming Aegon, considering how the Dance ends. I just tought there's no way the audience would be satisfied with that ending with how he was portrayed in S1. And tbh, to my surprise S2 did wonders to improve Aegon's character and make him more sympathetic. But now after watching this video I find the decisions of S1 very questionable, and the contrast between S1 and S2 Aegon are very jarring. It's like they suddenly decided to move away from Mushroom's recollection of him. Not only that but a lot of changes that were made concerning other characters shows the writing decisions has been all over the place.
I am so glad I found this video. This is exactly how I felt about the show. It was incredible at moments, but I couldn't help but feel that these subtle changes shifted the entire substructure of the story and the conclusions you are supposed to draw from it. Especially the Catspaw dagger; it feels incredibly forced and out of place. Also, maybe someone could answer this for me - what would the necessity of keeping Aegon's dream secret from the realm? Wouldn't it only help their cause if everyone knew the truth about the White Walker's and the Long Night?
If I were to guess, I'd say that the purpose of keeping it a secret would be to not cause panic? Also, a lot of people might not believe them if they did tell the secret openly, and they'll probably just end up turning on them, thinking that they're absolutely crazy. People don't want to be led by someone that they believe to be mad. So it's best to keep your dreams and prophecies to yourself, rather than to tell everyone at the risk of looking insane. Lol. 😅🤷🏾♂
Hmmmm...as a writer myself I see the seeds in Season One of a redemption arc for many of the Greens, with a damnation arc for many of the Blacks. If characters do not change, then there is no real story. But we shall see.
@@andorea11people just hate the greens. there's so many rapists in got, yet people adored drogo and jaime. if aegon wasn't a rapist in the show, people would still site mushroom's account. they do it anyways to say he's a pedophile too.
@@andorea11Well considering he also does a bunch of horrible shit on Fire and Blood, and the conflict is often better described and known as "The Princess and The Queen" and that most of the political shitshow happened before he was born/when he was a toddler, it makes sense that he would get little characterization, you need to set up all the players that had been around 14-17 years before Aegon was even born, specially all the stuff Rhaenyra was getting up to at the time, but considering how brief his life is, and that he isn't exactly a competent monarch in his brief time, and that he feeds his sister to a dragon in front of his nephew, who is like 5 at the time, I don't think Aegon was ever gonna be seen as justifiable or good, which is fine because very early on he is taken out of the fighting and incapacitated anyway, The real figurehead and important figure within the greens is Alicent (Who is like one of like 4 people who survive this nonsense) and Aemond to a lesser extent considering he is regent while Aegon is injured, but Aemond gets up to some shit even worse and more psychotic than Aegon or Rhaenyra, but season 2 will inevitably show one of the biggest flaws of Rhaenyra as a monarch which is her growing paranoia that leads her to make enemies out of allies like Cersei, I think the show is all about how people like Alicent and Rhaenyra through living tragedy after tragedy find themselves amidst a war neither one wanted, the cost of war on women and all since the show is mostly through the perspective of women, and I imagine we will get some of this through Helaena as well, since I hope she doesn't get as shafted as she did in the books. The Greens and The Blacks both get up to some truly unforgivable shit, but I don't think actions like the murder of Luke or the Blood and Cheese incident can be seen as the acts of the entire group when each has or will have a particular character instigating it, and I actually think the Blacks genuinely seem better at this point in time in the show because they also seemed better at this point in time in the books, if anything Alicent looks WAAAAAAY better in the show than she does in the books, not conspiring for years to usurp Rhaenyra and not wishing that she dies in childbirth, or any of the vile shit Accounts Claimed she did or said during the Dance.
Exactly and as a writer who's making a fantasy world war epic about 2 young kings that cause a lot of Damage to their kingdoms as their fighting each other for Revenge.
In these moments I remember what Dumb and Dumber once said, that they wanted to make GoT easy to mums and NBA players understand, or something similar. The more, the better. And as soon as HotD was announced I knew they would portray Targaryens as the picture perfect ones, for the audience was on verge of ripping HBO to pieces because of picture perfect Daenerys terrible end. They may use the books as base material, but what matters most is appeasing Dany fans, the only ones who remained because fans of other characters had gradually left the show before season 8 (my case, Dorne and Stannis favs), most of them didn't read the books, so yeah, HBO wants money, and audience only wants a new Daenerys to worship. Reading the comments I saw that even black queen's -phobe coments were ironically transfered to Alicent?! Woah, tak about a saint queen this Rhaenyra lol
Same with making her a)Not have Laenor murdered to open herself for marriage(while Alicent is complicit in the elder Strong's deaths thanks to an offhand comment to Larys "Clubfoot"). b)Not being the one to order Velaryons brother dead because he called her children bastards, unlike the book, and her being grossed out by it(because she's sooooo perfect and not at all wrong ever, right?) c)Treating it like Aemond was in the wrong for his cousins attacking and dogpiling him, with him defending himself accordingly, because "he called my kids names!"(Still hate that she treats Alicent like SHE was being unreasonable).
Actually, the mass sympathy for the blacks says much about people in general. The show clearly does depict the greens - most of all Alicent - as relatable characters, yet in a way that will never really resonate with the broader audience. After all, most of the greens are in a position of less direct power and influence then their counterparts, due to their second rate standing with king Viserys, making them more 'on edge', more frustrated and less sympathetic. The blacks clearly feel more at ease at expressing themselves and their desires due to their privileged positions at court. People reason from a contemporary POV: the characters who express their individuality are more recognizable to us. Hence we sympathize with them more. Characters who are adversed to them and simultaneously tend to fall in line with strange medieval customs, are immediately recognized as the "antagonists". It's our basic instinct. Next to that, Rhaenyra is generally presented as the main protagonist. Hence we root for her by default. Daemon p.e. is the same character in the beginning of the show as at the end of the season, yet in the first couple of episodes, people view him as "this treat" because he stands in the way of Rhaenyra. Then, once the closeness of their relationship starts sinking in, he gets to be the "badass anti-hero". People tend to follow those basic instincts. I really hope that the opener to season 2 fucks viewers up. That it makes them question their pov again. If so, then this will become one of the most brilliant series ever. But if they play it 'safe', then they'll end up as a forgettable bland mess like GOT.
@@femalegays Yeah. The Faith Militants were weird fanatics who started a war because one Targaryen Family continued the tradition of incest. At least the faith militant were toned down by the book High Sparrow who punished Cersei for her sins.
@@Chasingdreams25 Which would marry the deceased king's daughter. they killed Aegon to stop the war, as at the time he became bitter and wanted to continue to fight.
I just find the Black Team characters quite boring, what to me makes the Greens interesting is the fact that they have flaws which is entirely normal for people. I actually think it makes them more human. The children on the Green side for example have not had much guidance from their father at all, who appears to completely dote on Rhaenyrs. I do agree there is an imbalance between the two sides, which needs redressing on series two. I just hope they don't water down the B & C incident, that is one way they can put more flaws onto Team Black.
The complete removal of Daeron as a character is further proof of this. Daeron is literally a bonafide saint and is a direct equal and opposite of the Black factions wonderful Addam of Hull. Both honest, loyal, kind, diligent, and intelligent young boys who have a deep bond with their respective dragons, are very humble, and earnestly wish for the wars end. Yet only one of these characters made it to the show... And they just so happen to be on the Black faction lmfao...
Let’s not forget Rhaenyra forced Criston to bed her and proceeded to dump him in the most insulting way possible, Daemon killed his two wives and constantly undermines his third, Corlys undermines Rhaenys; Laenor, Daemon and Rhaenyra murdered a servant and ‘killed’ the Velaryon’s remaining child; Daemon committed police brutality, Rhaenys committed domestic terrorism. The blacks also made no efforts to maintain a foothold in court, secluded themselves and left Viserys to decay surrounded by people he didn’t feel loved by, only came back for self-gain and because not keeping Vaemond off of High Tide would make Rhaenyra look bad. AND Daemon enables blood and cheese. And THIS is the show that makes them behave like they’re the good faction, and it SUCKS at it.
biased towards the blacks and towards women in general at some degree even with greens women. I've been saying this since the show was aired, it's really a pity cause they're making the dance of the dragons much much less interesting. Like right now I'm rooting for the greens just because they try so hard to make people root for the blacks at the price of the source material. I'm really disappointed. I really hope you continue your analysis for this second season though.
You do realise the Author of the book himself said the Accounts of the book are not Reliable at all because it was written After the civil war by maesters who were team Green and pro Hightowers the books themselves are biased towards the blacks Also The author of the books is also involved in the shows writing
I am 100% agree with you in general👏👏👏 This is ridiculous how people do not see this bias! They've completely hidden all Rhaenyra's black pages - and highlighted every bad word about the greens. Though, I must say, they've put some hints that Daemon WOULD be a bad guy on the black side. I can totally see him doing all the "dirt work" that happened in books, leaving Rhaenyra totally innocent in any bloodsheding. Also they gave Alysent ENOUGH qualities to be concidered a sympathetic character (not better than mother_of_the_century Rhae, of cause!). And she is constantly remembering how she loved Rhaenyra LOL. But bad-bad men, this is all their fault!!! 😈😈 Velaryons are constantly acting against their own interests. And Criston Cole is just some bad guy from cheap teenage drama🥱 They didn't even try to make something real with this
Ser Criston is not bad. Just villanized by biased authors and showrunners. I love him regardless. He is all-man. Which is why feminists/lesbians hate him.
I never saw the show as being biased until I saw fan reactions. I was neutral with the book, and I'm pretty much team Green after the show. Although i think the point of the show is for the audience to stay as neutral as possible since this takes place in a society much different than our own and adhere to their own set of laws and customs. It's kind of hard to do that when the morally right *in terms of medival times and honestly, even modern times lol* is the Green faction. And while portraying Alicent as an abusive parent is true, it's also portraying the very traumatizing effects of a girl forced into motherhood at a young age. Basically groomed by her own father to birth a king. She was sexually exploited and unprepared to be a mother and had to suck it up because this was "normal" during those times. Alicent had no say in which her life would lead, despite being part of an elite society. Not just because of her gender but also in part of her father's position as a second son. This is a stark contrast to Rhaenyra, who could basically do whatever she wanted in comparison to other women in this society. Her reputation would be ruined, yesh, but she would still hold more power than other women and even lower status men *cough* cole *cough* could ever dream of simply because of her Targaryan bloodline. So, for me, the show was portraying the very big difference in which class played a role in society. How much difference it made depending on if you were lowly born, a second son of a noble family, a queen, or royalty. And how feudalism was an extremely flawed and violent way of ruling. I think i may have some biases of my own in regards to the blacks because i just can't stand how much black stans are defending them. ESPECIALLY Daemon. Rhaenyra is also guilty of questionable things, though not as blatant as in the books. It's enough for people to realize that Rhaenyra isn't a hero in this story. I think people take everything at face value and lack critical thinking skills. Or opt the easy way out and refuse to see the other side of this extremely complicated issue that can't be solved by pointing fingers and shouting, "Evil!" That's not how George RR Martin wants asoiaf to be portrayed.
I really hated this. The point over GRRM's story, whatever how it really happened, is that both sides were power-hungry assholes. The show has its quality and it is much better than GOT's seasons 5, 7 and 8, but that bias spoils their meaning and potential.
The Ryhaenyra and Daemon shipping is another way they try to make us team black. They're portrayed as star crossed lovers/soul mates, who, had they only been aloud to marry from start, none of this would have happened. Never mind the fact that it's a toxic, abusive relationship, that helps tear the Kingdom apart. "They're so in love, like Romeo and Juliet, don't you know." Their shippers are worse than the Reylo's were. Notice how there's no great love story on the green side.
I never agree more. I don’t like them if they love each other they should marriedin the first place not lie to entire of world and married someone else.
I never agree more. I don’t like them if they love each other they should married in the first place not lie to entire of world and married someone else.
Great video and exactly my thoughts. What I liked about the book was the sense you got that neither side was exactly great rulers and you could see why people chose one or the other and that ultimately no one really won and it was the smallfolk that had to suffered due to the hubris of Targaryens and their ambitions and entitlements. However, the show strips all of that for a more cliche good guy vs bad guy story
You didn't watch the show properly or read the Book properly. The greens are absolutly hatefull in the Books. They are more grey here and overall the characters are more complexe and grey
interestingly enough I still like the greens more, even if they try so hard to make Rhaenyra likable, funny enought I thing Ill like Rhaenyra more if they would make her more relatable and realistic like in the books.
corlys has never been honest about winning the throne for his wife...he wants it because it elevates his house, and by proxy, himself... it's all about his own ambition. i never believe for a second whenever he kept bringing it up lol
Nobody in the show or here going to bring up the many innovemt people Rhaenys killed at the dragon pit after the coronation? If she had at least killed Aegon and the others there, it could have been put as a ruthless and shrewd play but the way it went it was just strange
This was a great video. I like how you analyzed both sides and showed how the bias of the show applies to both sides - in favour of the Black faction, but in opposition to the Green faction. The show needs to do better. However, I think that in the future (in s2), the showrunners are hoping to focus more on the Green faction and to present them a lot more positively, but again we’ll see. I know that they are also hoping to change events like the Battle of Rook’s Rest so that Rhaenyra appears more like a girl-boss than she did in the book. We’ll see how that works out when the episode airs. But for now, I empathize with your concerns. This video was very insightful and refreshing, and I hope that your channel gets bigger and better. We need some more channels in support of team green.
I agree with you: we need more channels in support of the Green faction - or at least channels that make arguments which showcase their perspective. I’m still working on more videos like that (lol) 😆 However, I would also recommend the channel ‘Hill’s Alive’ because she can also give some refreshing insights about the Green faction, and she partly inspired me to start this channel. Anyway, thank you for watching the video and I hope you stay tuned for more content ❤💯
More of a girl-boss, huh? Only so many things from the book can be hand waved away as propaganda or false but one thing that is just a fact is that Rhaenyra did not really participate in dragon battles. I'm also dubious about them being more favorable to the Greens in s2 and even if they were how would they make that happen when they've already done the damage and firmly set the audience against them?
Why does it bother you that people support the blacks but you have no issue with people who support the greens? It's a little hypocritical. People will like whatever character they like. You don't need everyone to agree with what you think/feel
@@rosita3528 It doesn't bother me lol. You can support whoever you like. I'm just saying that the show is obviously bias. What bothers me is that the Greens are actively being demonized in order to make the Blacks look better. Why? Why not just show the good and bad of both sides?
@@thecriticalmaester9702why not just show the good and bad of both sides??? COZ what the show tells us is maybe what truly happened and the books' facts maybe were distorted on account of the third person rumors. U dont question the facts of the show when GRRM, the author himself is the showrunner. He shows. We watch.
This entire story is such a litmus test. If you believe that the Blacks and girlboss Rhaenyra are the heroes, you’ll believe whatever ill conceived slop is put in front of you. She’s a terrible person and would make a terrible queen.
Rhaenyra wasn't a good ruler it is shown in book when she wasn't able to save any of the dragons when they were attacked by mobs in the pit. Her son had more guts but he to was fool for taking his mothers dragon there.
Definitely. If anything, the scene Aemond loses his eye exemplifies how Viserys and Rhaenyra will always be able to hurt Alicent's sons and get away with it, that's why Aegon only takes power to protect his family, and why would he do it, If he didn't have reasons to believe they were in danger in the first place? Because is clear that while Rhaenyra is on power, she and her sons can always abuse the greens and get away with it, she already showed she is not above torturing a 10 year old Aemond for saying something she didn't like, so what guarantees they would ever be safe under her rule? But this fact is downplayed and the Greens are simply put as greedy and villainous.
Becuase Greens are greedy and villainus. If Alicent taught her sons respect for their nephews thsi whole nigjht wouldn't happened, Ameond wouldn't lose his eye and Rhaneyra wouldn't demanded Aemond being "sharply question". Now, Rhaenyra suggestion was no doubt cruel but she acted quickly and she was in mood "protect my onw children". Aegon took power because he is pawn in his family hands, and because he wasn't able to escape Aemond. Greens took pwer solely because of their misogyny. Rhaenyra wouldn't hurt any of Greens if they didn't give her a cuse - which they constantly do.
@@InitialPC It's not. But wheter Rhaenyra is good person or not is not the point. Point is - she is rightfull heir. And Greens didn't wan to usurp her because she is nbad person or bad ruler - the only reason they do is because of her gender. Also, Rhaneyra demanded Aemond to be "sharply questioned" but never rushed to question him. People say in anger many things. But she ultimately never acted upon. Alicent actually went after Luke with dagger.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Bro, by the rules of the realm, Rhaenyra clearly ISN’T the rightful heir. That’s the whole point of the show. She is trying to usurp the throne and change the rules due to circumstances allowing for it (Viserys becoming cold towards Alicent and his sons from her). Viserys himself would never have been King if women were included in the line of inheritance. He only became King because he was a male, whereas his competitor for the throne was a female, even though she had a better claim to it by blood. Rhaenyra is an entitled child who wants to ignore the rules favoring male heirs over female ones, while also ignoring the fact that this rule is the only reason she even has a claim to the Iron Throne in the first place. This conflict is what makes the entire show interesting, and I hate how so many people are ignoring that just because they like Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra is supposed to be a flawed and selfish character. She is why this whole mess starts, from her irresponsible handling of her marriage and her birthing of obvious bastard children, to her treatment of Alicent and her father in his grief, to her cruelty to Alicent’s children, etc. The Greens, hate them or love them, are merely attempting to do exactly what Rhaenyra is: secure the Iron Throne. Aemond and Aegon both have legitimate claims to it and their claims are stronger than Rhaenyra’s based on the rules that made Viserys the King. They see Rhaenyra trying to pull the rug out from beneath them and take what they have, so of course they’re going to fight back. And they obviously aren’t going to be kind about it when Rhaenyra treats them so coldly from the get-go merely for being born and ruining her plans. Look at things from each character’s perspective and you’ll begin to understand things in a more complete way.
The Greens lied to Aegon and tricked him into getting onto the throne even though he didn't want it. They want the throne for themselves. The Greens aren't Targs and Rhaenyra was heir to the the throne they just felt that she was not worthy of the throne. Otto is the one who made sure that Rhaenyra became the heir and as soon as he had a grandson who uses him to get the throne.
If they've cut Daeron/Tessarion completely, I'm out. He's the only person that humanizes the Greens and seems to be a pretty good kid, with my personal favorite dragon, "The Blue Queen". I get cutting tertiary characters; I feel like Alicent's 3rd son, a dragon rider, is NOT a tertiary character.
No shxt they would make the woman trying to be Queen the protagonist and those dastardly Greens that want to make a man King, the villains. There would be no other way in this day of PC dominated Hollywood
Great video! I was mostly neutral when I read the book though I tended to like most black characters better, as the show progressed I slowly favored the greens more and more just bc how annoyed I was by the the whitewashed version of the blacks and how their fans would love to paint them as the clear perfect heroes and would dismiss anyone that rooted for a bit more of complexity. I don't think the show runners are aware of their own bias: if you read their analysis and interviews they explain in depth the details of the complex situation that many of the green characters are in and how it affects them psychologically. However, as much as they may hold this more complex idea of their characters, the way they frame their actions, the screen time they allow for each team etc CLEARLY does not work in favor of showing these ideas... So yea.. I am scared for how they will frame... certain events... in season 2.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 me as well. most black rhaenerya fans I've come across are too headstrong and believe she is all good and deserves the throne and that she does nothing wrong.
Me personally I just feel like this war should’ve never happened it’s so many good characters on both sides and that’s why I never even tried picking a side a true Targaryen fan will never pick a side cause tbh I hate how the show got the greens lookin like they are the evil ones both sides did evil shit special what daemon had blood and cheese do to that kid that shit was crazy what he had them do💯 I wonder how will they show it on tv
Even in the books the Greens were in the wrong 1. Rhaenyra was the named heir, that didn't change 2. Alicent and Otto actively undermine Rhaenyra for Aegon to be king, that didn't change 3. Aegon didn't want the iron throne, he only accepted when Criston and Otto said his life would be in danger if he doesn't become king 4. When King Viserys died, they hid it from everyone for a week to scheme and to steal Rhaenyra's crown, only after the smell got out, and they could not hide it anymore 5. Alicent did crap of a job raising her sons, they were either drunken fool or murderous psychopath 6. It was even hinted that Otto may have poisoned Viserys' father, so that Viserys would be the king with him as the hand 7. At the beginning, Rhaenyra was only mustering supports from the lords diplomatically, but that ended when Aemond kills Luke at storm's end But personally, I think Viserys causes the dance He made Rhaenyra heir, but did almost nothing to solidify her power in the eyes of the lords And what's worse is he should not have remarried And mot importantly, Viserys could insist on Alicent and Rhaenyra's children marrying each other(Helaena and Jace), that was the only way to make sure there won't be conflict in the future Just look at Rhaenyra's children: Jace, Luke, Joffrey, Aegon and Viserys They were all courteous, brave with good hearts You can say alot about Rhaenyra One thing is for sure, she was a great mother
Thank you for making this. To me, I definitely felt the clear bias, pretty much throughout, although it is far worse in season 2. To me, it is insulting to the adidence we have be told which side to pick of present side even and let us decide, not modern motivations and political agendas applied to medival characters!
it is the feminist movement... nothing much.. removing the toxic trait from Rhaenyra and inputing it on Daemond, it is to make daemond have the toxic masculinity trait..
Before the show, I was fully behind Rhaenyra and hated the Greens. However, the show in their attempts to make her more likeable have somehow managed to make me a neutral. That's quite the achievement. I never thought that was even possible 🤯🤯🤯
My biggest concern with it, is that most Civil War stories are supposed to be messy, personal, and tragic. Having Rhaenyra as "the main character" and the Blacks as their "primary faction" at her side makes it seem the audience is being told to empathize with them more than the Greens. And yeah, they give Rhaenyra's flaws to Daemon where they can, and making Alicent younger than her book counterpart gives most of her actions over to Otto (so far, she still keeps some autonomy, but we've only seen Season 1 so far) That said.... I wonder: If we asked the Book readers before the show came out for their opinion regarding the situation, I wonder what Poll percentages would look like. Also, interesting how they've done so much to Rhaenys. Much of what Rhaenys in the show doesn't make sense. As for Aemond, I feel he's also been unfairly judged for the circumstance he was in, regarding his eye especially.
How exactly Rhaneys doesn't makes sense? She is woman who was suppose to be heir, but was rejected by lords, so she accapted her status as lady-wife. And then she watched her cousin-once-removed becoming heiress, so she is both bitter and realistic of this: she says to Rhaneyra people will expect her half-brother to be heir, and that is true. You can see she might envy Crown Princess, but even if so - she is also right about realm favouring Rhaneyra's brother. She also thinks that Rhaneyra's husband (whoever he will be) and their children will be at risk after Visery's death (which also becomes true). In episode 9 Rhaneys is impressed all thing Alicent did to usurp throne, yet she remarks that irony is Alicent could seized throne if she wanted, but she never wil because she knows only how to serve men (which is true). Finally in episode 10 Rhaneys sees Rhaneyra as promisisng ruler and she also sees that Velaryons are bonded with Rhaneyra wheter they want it or not, through their grandchildren (both biological and legal). So she convince Corlys to sides with Rhaneyra I don't see where what she says "doesn't make sense".
The problem with taking flaws away from Rhaenyra is it makes her far less interesting and Daemon more interesting altogether. The best written characters are always the ones written with flaws that you can emphasize with.
I don't remember how I perceived Aegon in the book but I remember hating Alicent, show and especially the actress did a great job humanizing her and making her even deserving of some sympathy for having to endure her father's manipulations and aging Viserys Very good and thoughtful video and great voice, subscribed!
aegon was a lot better in the book, in the book he was seen as creepy by those close to him but the public loved him in the show they needed to give people a reason to hate the greens so they made him a serial r@pist child trafficker kingpin
Its not villians vs heroes,according to the books its ambition vs carelessness. The Green's ambition for power and the Black's careless for not properly taking care of the responsibility given to them ended both parties.
I really hope that this is intentional and that we’ll see Rhaenyra descend into madness. She feels more and more righteous and justified in her actions and I hope they take that to it’s extreme but write it well this time. That’d make rewatching the show a shit ton more interesting.
You definitely make some good points I didn’t consider. I need to re read Fire and Blood for sure but I do think they will(or at least hope) start to show Raenyra’s evil side take over. I think they are going to use Luc’s death as the thing that pushes her to the dark side. I think in the book people didn’t really start to turn against her until they took Kings Landing. I don’t really see how they can make her actions after that happens look good on the show.
And part four of my response: Epilogue. They made Aemond more sympathetic than in book. So both Alicent and her children in show are complex when, in book they were straghtforward power hungry and bad. They also villinized Daemon. So the only person who was truly white washed was Rhaenyra. But she might change in season 2. So, no, show isn't biased towards Black. They made changes on characters from the both sides.
@@femalegays You wrote second post '"could be said about rhaenyra and daemon, especially”, but I cannot respond to this, since when I am clicking it leads me nowhere. Provide context to which comment you replied.
The Green characters are made more complex but still have all their flaws intact (they're occasionally weak, petty, weird and violent, not to mention how bad Aegon is depicted, without even showing us a single positive side of his character, for example his bond with Sunfyre). Instead, Black characters are made more complex AND flawless... or at least their flaws are downplayed or glossed over: think about how in the show there is no reaction to the fact that Daemon killed his wife Rhea and groomed Rhaenyra and Laena when they're basically teenager girls, or that Daemon and Rhaenyra killed an innocent man to stage Laenor's death, think about the fact that Rhaenys killed more innocent people than all the other characters combined only for a stupid girlboss move, think about Rhaenyra asking for Aemond's torture in Driftmark in in the successful attempt to gaslight the audience into forgetting Lucerys' crime, which goes beyond normal self-defense and deserves even just a public rebuke, or think about Vaemond being killed for telling the truth, the tipical action of tyrants and dishonorable rulers ... these are ruthless evil actions but which pass almost as insignificant, glossed over... while Aegon as a rapist is underlined by the script with Dyana's terrible scene,with the pathetic masturbation scene and so on. If you think about it, making the characters more complex but with this type of bias script is a really sneaky way to create a biased show that pretends not to be biased, and it's because of this hidden manipulation of viewers (and the horrible way many Team Black stans behave) that I switched to supporting the Greens
The precedent was already set before Viserys named his daughter the heiress to the throne. It was agreed upon that the throne will not be inherited by a woman nor pass through a woman's line. It was Viserys vs Laenor not Rhaenys, with that, it is clear that women are excluded in the line of succesion in the presence of a male heir. Viserys is hypocrite because he thinks that he can just change things and get away with it. He break the very precedent that made him King in favor of his daughter. He said, "Even I do not exist above duty and tradition", so why name a Princess as heir? He knew that the realm will not accept a reigning Queen that's why he is so desperate for a male heir to the point that he lost his wife. Viserys is the root of the civil war. It's sad that the Greens are blaimed for all the problems they inherited from Viserys' reign.
um the greens could have literally just accepted rhaenyra as queen and move on the greens are blamed because the entire war could have been avoided if one of the sides yielded while rhaenyra isn't innocent by any means neither are the greens they are just as much to blame
@@andriusas90 the Hightowers are not the only noble house in the realm. Most of the noble houses are sexist that's why when the great council was called the majority choose Viserys instead of Laenor. They don't believe that the crown should pass through the female line, how much more being inherited by a woman. Jaeherys knew it, that's why he decided to name Viserys' father as Prince of Dragonstone instead of Rhaenys, the only daughter of then heir, even though he had absolute authority he knew that once he pass away the realm will not accept a reigning Queen.
I'm team green since Viserys's death. Because then, the only person who knows that Deamon is not fit for power is Otto. Deamon is a mad dog who commits crime with full impunity.
people like to forget corly's tried to give his 12 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER TO THE KING TO WED. Would he have caused an UPROAR if his daughter did wed, and HAD a son and Rhaenary's was STILL Queen of the realm?
The writers might be writing themselves out of another Mad Targaryen Queen plot as we’ve seen the reception that had last time. Though, from what I gather, that plot might be more opportune now than last time.
Greens are the best characters, especially Otto. Rhaenyra is one of the worst characters in the entire show - dumb, narcissistic, and completely unfit to rule. Rhaenys is also a nasty woman, she is like a feminist college professor nobody likes. Daemon is gross too. Hail Aegon
We cannot separate Daenerys and Rhaenyra. The writers know what happend after season 8 got released. I assume they don't see a point in repeating the 'Targaryen Queen goes mad' story. So by means of eliminating the only option for the villain role are the Greens.
That's repulsive. RHAENYRA IS NOT DAENERYS. They can't butcher another story of GRRM just to atone for D&D's sins in a different sons. Besides, that's just an excuse. The truth is that the writers are biased and have a personal agenda.
And yet, the show fails to show Rhaenyra as compotent and deserving of the throne. She is irresponsible. petty, acts without thinking and when there is a need for actions she prefers to sit and think.
