Thank you Helen. I have the original due to your recommendation in a class and have been recommending it to others. I will no longer do so and let them know not to purchase.
I was about to impulse buy one of these knives since I had heard they had a good handle and hand-feel thanks for their design; evidently they were talking about the OLD design :( Thanks for posting your comments Helen 👍
I guess I’m lucky I never tried the first version of this knife. I got one back in May (so it must have been v2). I absolutely loved it and used it everyday in the kitchen I work in. I’ve only ever used “industrial” knives from Cozini Brothers so when I used the Misen for the first time I was blown away. The others in my kitchen loved it so much that someone stole it from me. I can’t dream how amazing the original Misen was. Very interesting video!
Helen: THANK YOU for the wonderful videos. I recently started cooking, and have learned so much from you! But I've been "playing with knives" for many years. I recently got the new design Misen chef knife, and I love it. But when I hold it in a pinch grip, I pinch it closer to the top of the knife (near the spine, rather than the edge) - the bottom of my index finger is about halfway between the spine and the edge. That also rotates the index finger end of my hand up off the knife spine, and puts all the pressure of cutting on the other fingers that are holding the incredibly comfortable (to me) grip of the knife. I recently was helping at a church dinner, and ended up chopping various vegetables for 2-1/2 hours straight with my Misen. My hand wasn't even tired. I do the same thing with Japanese knives - again, no digging in and a very comfortable grip. Hopefully pinching the knife a little higher up will help you/other viewers too. It's a small adjustment that makes a big difference in comfort.
I am so grateful that I found your review. I haven't checked to see if they addressed your concerns on behalf of your students and family. I am an older man with small hands, and feel the fun of arthritis with each blade stroke. When I saw your first thoughts about the original knife I was ready to order one, but then I caught your later comments of the changes that Missen made to the original. My cutting callous helps some, but I want to have the downward forces distributed over a greater area of the handle. As feedback to Missen, I absolutely hate PR and Customer Service reps who basically tell me, "Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We don't care what you think, we know better than you do what you want!" With few exceptions I begin looking elsewhere for what I want. I am the market force that we label as "the demand". When you quoted your daughter talking about going to college and wanting to have a perfectly comfortable knife to take with her, I really identified with that situation. I love your channel and mostly because of your honesty. I have been telling my children and grandchildren about it. I hope it does exceptionally well and that it is highly profitable. Few will ever know what kind of work goes into making a quality product like your videos. It requires great amounts of time, effort, and dedication to maintaining that quality. The image, sound, lighting, host presentation, set and editing are great. Thank you.,
Thank you, Helen! I recently discovered your videos and I love them. I have never found a comfortable knife and now I know why. I didn't know what to look for. I love your manner and your humor. As a vegetarian, I can adapt many of your meat recipes. I particularly enjoy, however, recipes that are specifically vegetarian. My mother and sister are also new fans of yours. Wonderful content.
My niece bought a Misen chefs knife last week. She was unhappy with it and asked me to take a look at it. The bevels were uneven and unbalanced. The grind was course, there was no evidence of any finishing of the edge. It was too dull to even use. But worst of all: the blade had a 3/32nd inch bow from heel to tip - I measured. This knife could not pass the most basic visual inspection. It should never have been allowed out of the factory. What does this say about the rest of their quality control? The steel composition? The heat treating?
Helen, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have a set of the old Misen knives and I LOVE them. I'm nowhere near the chef you are but I do know they are wonderful to use and mine were very sharp and very comfortable. I was going to purchase the same set for my two daughter-in-laws. I'll contact them and wait... Again, thank you for this video and all of your videos.
Nice review and update Helen, thank you. My friend from work got the Gen 2 from his Dad, new in box and I'm about to sharpen it. The angle per side is about 30 degrees and it's dull. Now I've got to grind down each side to 15 degrees - joy. Luckily I have the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust which will do a fine job on it. Keep up the good vids.
I guess I am very lucky. I have very long slender hands and this is the first chef's knife that fits my hand properly, maybe because I have a really long thumb. So my top finger sits across the place on the top of the blade where it is widening to the handle. As far as sharpness, it was fairly sharp out of the box, but just with repeated use and honing every time I was slicing super thin tomatoes and onions, no sweat. I did not try to cut a tin can with it :p I have stopped using my Global knife for most things, although it's still fantastic for herbs and decimating a bunch of celery or mincing garlic. My only small complaint about the Misen knife is that it is a little on the heavy side. That works great for root vegetables. squash, and onions, but it's a little harder to be super precise for delicate work. So for me, it's Misen first, Global second, and my Wusthof utility knife third (just because I find it great for working with fish). I honestly don't think anyone will ever make a chef's knife that is perfect for all people in all situations. But for the price, I'm really happy with it.
Dear Misen, "In determining the stages and controls for design and development, the organization shall consider the need for involvement of customers and users in the design and development process;" ISO 9001:2015 section 8.3.2 (g). #misenoriginal
I can't comment on original Misen, never owned it, but I can praise Tojiro DP 210 mm, that's about 8 inches or so. Bought Tojiro 5 years ago for about $70, sharpens easy, stays sharp as a razor for a long time, real animal, good value, very satisfying purchase, love it(home cook) P.S. Tojiro gyuto F 808 DP 210 mm.
Bought Tojiro for $75, fantastic knife , on par with more expensive japanese knives. The price has gone up to about $125 now though so think I'd just upgrade to Misonp now
One of you asked what's my current recommendation for a chef's knife. Take this with a grain of salt since I haven't owned this knife yet, but I've tried it in a store (actually chopped with it). amzn.to/3aeGSqn ZWILLING J.A. Henckels 38411-203 Pro original Traditional Chef's Knife The handle of this knife is very close to the original Misen. It's 15 degrees (yes, european companies are moving in that direction, so you can no longer assume it's 20 degrees because it's a Henckels). I can't speak about the longevity of the edge. I need to buy one and use it for a few months. But I talked to Ryky from the wonderful Burrfection RU-vid channel and he said that he's used it for a few months and had no trouble with it. A few words of warning. It's very hard for me to tell from the pictures on Amazon which knife you are going to get. Henckels makes a few knives with this handle. According to CutleryandMore.com 38411-203 should have less curve on the bottom (I prefer less curve since it's easier to sharpen on the stone). But Amazon shows two different pictures for this product (one has more curve and another one has less). Here is the cutlery and more link: www.cutleryandmore.com/zwilling-ja-henckels-pro/traditional-chefs-knife-p133921 Another thing to watch out for is to NOT get the Rocking Santoku from the same line: amzn.to/3cfStHR I tried it in the store and it was terribly dull for a new knife only used by prospective buyers to chop potatoes. It's 11 degrees, which is not something Henckels steel can hold. Someone asked about the Julia Child story. I don't remember where I originally heard it, but when I googled for it, I found it in the New York Times: "She once demonstrated how to break off a part on a Cuisinart food processor to make it less cumbersome to use even as the manufacturer's representatives sat in the audience." www.nytimes.com/2004/08/14/us/julia-child-the-french-chef-for-a-jell-o-nation-dies-at-91.html
Helen thank you for the great information! I never new about this knife, and it looks like I found out too late... I’ll have to send Misen an email with a link to this video!!
@dolofonos aus 10 isn't Better nor bad.its more prone to chipping thought, you can go through frozen food on aus-8 and wusthof(440c too) but some of the higher hardened aus10 is micro chipped a lot. But less than vg10.. So.. eventually it doesn't really matter because the knife has a similar maximum sharpness after the first honing, honing is a bit quicker on aus-8..you hone a little bit less on aus10. But a less comfy knife is really really worse and blue looking cheap, imo. Ps: too lazy to really look it up but I think they are both around 57-58 HRC hardened, upper level of aus-8 and lower level of aus10. 58 is perfect for a French cuisine knife.
I had already ordered one of these knives before seeing this video. It's the first good quality knife I've ever owned and I like it. For people saying it isn't sharp out of the box, my finger begs to differ. It'll probably still be a month before I have a fingernail again from where the knife slipped (didn't have my fingers curled back enough and was cocky and going to fast for my skill level) and shaved off a good chunk of my fingernail with no resistance at all. It may not be the knife for everyone but I have no complaints so far.
Thanks for the detailed review. I have the original and was looking to purchase another. I didn't know there was a "version 2" until i watched your video. Thanks!
Ms. Rennie, the part of the knife that you desire is an integral bolster with a distal tapering of the spine. Ideally, you would want a knife that has a thick spine by where you pinch grip. Take a look at the J.A. Henkels $400 artisanal knife at William Sonoma.
LOL, you are so right about the handle comfort on the new Misen chef's knife. I ordered the whole 5 knife set of the new Misen knives about 6 months ago and the handle comfort issue that you point out is my only complaint about the Misens. I have several of the Victorinox knives and know exactly what you mean about how much more comfortable their handles are than the new Misens. Even though I prefer the Misen knives overall, if I have a lot of knife work to do, I find myself picking up my Victorinox chef's knife because it does not make my hand hurt. I have found myself wondering if the sharp edge of the transition from the handle to the blade is why the Misens are not as comfortable, but I think your point about the position of that transition with respect to the beginning of the cutting edge is an issue as well that I wasn't aware of until you pointed it out. And I did not even know there was an original Misen knife that had a better handle until your video, thank you! Misen, if you are reading this, I do believe Helen is right. You should go back to the original handle design. And I am one of those guys with the big hands that appreciate the wider blade!~
Wow. I just bought some Misen knives. I like them a lot. I was unaware of the design change. I do think having a flatter surface for the pinch grip would be good. But I don't have the original misen to compare to. The new misen works better than other knives I have used.
I've been using ZWILLING J.A. Henckels knives for years and just picked up a couple Mercer knives because of the low cost (about the same as Misen) They're not quite as thick, but the edges have held up very well and they feel great in the hand. I'll probably try more sizes.
Thank you for this review. I'd actually, been tempted by their Black-Friday offers, but when I looked online, everything I saw about the company was negative now; saying that the steel may have improved from the 1st knives, but they certainly weren't the best value now. I'm grateful for some context.
Thanks Helen! I love my original Misen chef’s knife, and after your review I would never change up to the new version. I so appreciate your thoughts in RU-vid!
Helen. That's an EXCELLENT point worth making. For anyone considering the Misen or just buying a new chef's knife. Comfort. DOES matter. No one's mentioned how they changed the handle design on the 2.0. And that it could bother some people. Something for shoppers to keep in mind. the position of the handle at the spine.
I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff, but I really need some sharp knives. I saw the ad and it looked great. Fortunately, I found your video before buying. I never would have known. Thank you!
Unfortunately I miss your review on the new Misen chef knife. I bought one and everything you said about the spine digging into your fingers while using the claw grip is absolutely accurate. Very sorry I bought it.
I personally enjoy my Misen chef's knife and utility knife but I really enjoyed this review. I think if Misen offered this knife labeled as 2nd generation or something like that it would be nice. Don't assume your customers are idiots and cant tell the difference @misen.
You still have the Victorinox 8" chef's knife to recommend. It is brilliant at everything and causes none of the discomfort you describe with the knives you don't like. Cheers!
I got my first Misen and I have the original and I love it,smaller than the other Chef knife I was using and I have to get used to it cuz I did cut my fingers about three times on the front the Rocker part
I'm guessing the new model adds height, moves hand over blade for better control and I'm sure that changes the balance foward with added weight to the back. Maybe they can add a new extra model in the future. I own about 150 knives and they are all so different and you never really know until you actually hold one and use it.
I am not really into knives, but from a technical point of view, they chose to get rid of a costly production line. There is no real reason not to keep 2 knives, the only one which comes into my mind is to produce cheaper and have a larger income.
I have no proof of that, but that's what my instinct tells me too. It's not just the 2 knives. The steel itself and the finish seem to be cheaper. I've only owned the new knife a couple of months and it's already discolored, while the old one is perfectly shiny. I guess that decided to leave the most essential -- sharpness -- and let everything else go by the wayside.
Thank you for this. Was just about to buy some of their pans but the fact that they would change their production line for their most popular product now has me worried.
I think you can get the old knife at a 20 percent discount. They just sent me an e-mail with a discount, and it shows the picture of the old knife. Maybe you should go back to recommending the victornox. They are great knives for the money. (They also make the Swiss Army knife)
Me too when I was a young cook I swoon over Japanese knives with 61+ HRC but as the time goes I got tired of maintaining it and I cannot beat the knife because it will chip. When I got a chance to work at Australia I met a chefs in the restaurant I was working with and every day I saw him using his knives so heavy(chopping hard and using it as scrapper. I got curious and I ask him what knives he was using and he told me he was using only Mac's & Misono. The next week I sold all my expensive knives and bought a Mac 8" and Misono 240mm. Up to this day I travel the world with those knives and 3 sharpening stones and trust me my mise en place was never the same.
Initial sharpness isn't just a Misen issue. I recently purchased a Made In chef's knife to try out as a "daily driver." Some reviews online mentioned theirs coming needing to be sharpened. Sure enough, both of mine did too. I purchased a Santoku and a Chef's knife. Out of the box the Santoku was at about the level of sharpness where I decide I need to re-sharpen a knife - usable but needs work. The Chef's knife was worse. Mid-blade to tip was about like the Santoku. Back towards the heel it needed a lot of work, all the way down to my 400 stone and some quality time put in before I could come up to a 1000 or more. I just looked at the blade/handle profile on the Made In and it is very similar to the new Misen. Maybe not quite as far back, but certainly not as close as the original. I also have a good Shun Classic and it has a fair distance there. My no-name chef's knife has a handle that comes out just over the heel, similar to the original Misen.
The new Misen knife is made from a better quality, harder steel than the older Misen knife. That means it will stay sharp for a longer time. Also, I have large hands and the newer handle to be just as good as the previous one. In my experience, the newer Misen knife is an improvement over the older one.
To be honest, the most comfortable knives I have, at least fro pinching, are a set of Caphalon Katana series knives. The way the tang tapers into the blade makes an amazing hold. They retain an edge well even if they are kind of trendy.
This one does look nice for a pinch grip. The handle seems unusually large and wide, so I'd have to try it to see how comfy it feels, but it has potential :)
@@helenrennie It is an odd shaped handle but it seems to work. I have used them for a couple of years now and am very happy with them. I have big hands and my wife has small ones and we both use them comfortably.
I bought the new Nisen knife on their sale. The edge was a big disappointment, out of the box, and required some serious shaping. One side 15 degrees, and the other at least 20? And the blade was too thick behind the edge. It is coming along pretty well, but not close to a Miyabi. Still working on it ...
I am sure the original Misen is a good knife. And just slightly more than the cost of a Victorinox is great. Most people won’t spend more than $65 for a very good knife. But they should - if they love to cook. The Mac Pro is the best mass produced knife in my view, but for the same amount of money I can get a Japanese artisan knife that is noticeably lighter and much sharper than the Misen, Shun, even the Mac. Aficionados get them at Chef Knives to Go. The famous - to knife junkies - Konosuke HD2 weighs less than 5 ounces (240mm or 9.5 inch version) and cuts like nothing else Helen has ever used. They retain a sharp edge much longer than German knives too. These knives are not for everyone, though. Expensive, not forgiving of bad technique and they can chip if not used carefully. But they get so sharp and cut so well that it was a cooking life changer for me. Now if my knives aren’t beyond razor sharp I easily get annoyed. Since I sharpen my own with water stones, no problem. For those interested in the finest knives available and willing to spend, check out CKTG.
Nice review and I just subscribed. Thumbs up! However, it will be a cold day in Hades before I give up any of my Warther knives. I'm especially enjoying Warther's Santoku chef knife (which came out a few years ago). Superb balance, quality, and each knife looks like a fine piece of art. Also, I think the price is quite fair considering the quality. About $100 for my Warther Santoku. Lifetime warranty and if you bring your knives to the museum/factory they will sharpen and repair for free. Some days, I consider myself blessed that I live in Ohio. Everytime, I get down into Amish country I typically add Dover, Ohio to the list and stop at the Warther Museum. Usually I leave a bit of my paycheck behind and come home with a new knife. If you want to try one out, I recommend the 5" serrated tomato knife. It's amazing!
Don't know if you've seen this, but she actually has a review of the zwilling pro. It was one of the reviews that convinced me to get mine. I think it's still the knife that she is recommending for students, but that might be outdated information.
I'm a big believer in the right tool for the job. I have several very nice knives. Before investing in a knife, it should meet your hand first. Your exposition of the differences between the two knives shows the importance of hand comfort--and not every hand will like every handle/blade balance. My knives are essential tools. I love them all; would part with none; but some I reach for sooner than others or pair with a particular task. A well-crafted knife is a beauty to behold and a pleasure to use.
Have just sent Misen an email, Helen. We'll see what they say. I've just ordered Oleg's ceramic sharpener and angle thingies and was hoping to order some Misen knives too (for my daughter and daughter-in-law). I was given the original Misen which, like you, I've loved. But it has been damaged severely with someone, unbeknown to me, using it to solve a construction problem while I was out!!! I'm pretty devastated. I have arthritis and I know from how you describe your experience with the new one that it will hurt my hand. Sigh. Very deep sigh.
FWIW, the Nexus chef's knife is better than 99% of what people have in their kitchens and is actually quite good. You were just spoiled by that Misen! I've semi-retired my Nexus as I have a nice Japenese-made wa-guyto I bought through Burrfection and a laser-sharp nakiri under the Miyabi brand (a Henckels label made in Japan), but I gave up an older (pre-15° angle) Henckels TWIN over the Nexus. I also gifted one to my brother, and it's his favorite over a fairly large collection of inexpensive chef's knives. I don't think there's much in the way of upgrades from it until you break $100. And that BD1N steel is wicked hard and holds a great edge. The only downside to it is that you can't hone it on a normal steel, because it's too hard; you need a ceramic honing rod or a leather strop instead.
Helen, I completely understand where you're coming from...I felt the same way when Misen came out with their new design... But I found a very amazing replacement...I urge you to try the Kilne Chef knives.. they're amazing and incredibly cost effective, I'm a very big fan of Victorianox as my kitchen work horse... But since trying the Kilne... It's now my favorite go to... Try it and let me know what you think.
Not comfortable and needs almost constant honing. I'm happy with my Global and will stay with it. My Misen has been consigned to the back of the drawer...
I don't know if a 15 degree edge is appropriate for rocking cuts as the edge can catch on the board and chip. I can feel my japanese edge knives cut in and stick a little if you don't cut perfectly straight.
I bought the version 2 solely because it was made of AUS-8 and was supposed to be harder. I've seen production problems with it. The are some places on the blade that discolored after slicing a lemon. I've yet to sharpen my original, but I've had to sharpen the version 2 several times after a comparable amount of use. It doesn't seem to hold an edge. Somehow the tip got bent. Overall, it seems to be a lot lower quality than the original.
Yes, my new Misen discolored too. even though I was and dry by hand just like I do with all my knives. the old one looks shinier than the new one even though I've used it for years.
My problem, if it is a problem, is that I'm not inclined to move to the Japanese edge bevel angle. The best knives I own are all Henckels. Not flashy (or cheap) but sturdy and reliable. But I'm not a high volume chopper.
Well I think that Julia Child couldn't hold a candle to you. The knowledge you have given me with just a few of your videos is incredible. Thank you. Keep it up and I'll keep watching.
Misen knifes look good. I like their aesthetic, as with their pans. I'm European though and the prices are higher here, and it's not really justifiable when I have access to the classic European companies for cheaper.
@@illomens2766 K Sabatier (French company) produces very good stainless and carbon steel chef knives with the classic French blade profile. I recommend the 10 inch (25 cm) K Sabatier, it's an absolute beast of a knife for the price.
Can you make a video explaining the difference between utensils materials like stainless steel, cast iron, copper pots, wooden spoons, nylon spatulas; when to use each of them and when not to?
I have all of the 2.0 knives and have large hands. They feel very comfortable to me, but I didn’t consider how knife design could make it actually more dangerous for people with smaller hands. There should be two or even three handle designs per knife. Maybe that will help?
I feel like there should a product that you attach to the spine of a knife if it’s uncomfortable. Per say a rounded soft silicone guard that doesn’t lay very low on the blade.
Ms. Rennie do you know about Sugru? It's like a clay that you can mold then sets into place without further movement. You could use that to create a pad for the knives that don't extend as far back. It's $16 for a pack of 8 on Amazon. Just an idea. Hope it helps.
I already didn't like the grip of the Misen. If the front of the handle were smoother for the pinch grip, I'd prefer it. I'm glad I got the original, at least, if the new one is worse. Frankly, I use the utility knife most of the time.
Taller heel height isn't a matter of knuckle clearance with the board, its a matter of knuckle clearance with the produce you're cutting; it's why tall Nakiris, Chinese cleavers & Chuka Bocho are so popular for large veggies. But the big thing that makes the new Misen better than the old Misen is the steel upgrade, AUS10 still isn't great but AUS8 just has poor edge retention. As for an extra $20 for a more comfortable Misen, that would put you up at the $90-100 price point which would but you a Tojiro DP in VG-10 which is a massive improvement in steel and grind.
Like MANY others, Misen's reputation for robust and out-of-the-box sharpness seduced many buyers, I, like you, stone my own knives so this was never going to be an issue. I too use the pinch-grip for most of my knife work and although I was at the point of changing from currant favourite to Misen, your analysis has made me re-think it. What I DON'T want, is my hand to be uncomfortable in my all too familiar pinch grip so perhaps I'll stay with my Henckel and Wusthov knives until Misen goes back to the old pattern. Misen, swallow your pride and do the smart thing. Cheers from Canada North and I DO appreciate your telling the uncomfortable truth Helen.
I don't like full bolster for exactly the reason you mentioned. they are hard to sharpen on the stone. I don't find any comfort benefits from the full bolster.
I am guessing I'll be getting this question a lot, so I just wrote the answer as a new comment and pinned it to the top of the video (it shows up as the first comment).
