That confetti round was absolutely brutal. I wouldn't fire one of those at my worst enemy. Surprised the government hasn't banned ammunition like that after seeing the brutality a round like that can cause.
Remember, balistic gel simulates flesh, not skin. If a projectile barely pierces the gel, in a real scenario, it probably just leaves a big hematome or pops the skin
The Florida man was a prime example of why less lethal is not what you want. That guy took several rounds of 9mm before he stopped and died. That's why I don't mess around with less lethal stuff, I want maximum power. #4 buck is as less lethal as I will go.
Would love to see you test some of the "exotic" 12 guage rounds like Flechette, Flash Thunder Grenade Ammo, Bolo, Piranha, Double Slug, Rhodesian Jungle, Armor Piercing Incendiary, the Bomber, Flashbang rounds, and for a kicker, get some of the "Bio Degradable Detonating Targets" from Gum Gully Provision! That should make for a fun time on the range!
fletchette is prohibited by the geneva convention, so that would be hard to test, as would alot of others mentioned, no doubt alot of it might be illegal, unless scott travelled to a war zone ...lol
I think it's been made very clear that Scott and exotic, hard to find ammo don't mix very well. However, I am very interested in seeing another channel try some of these exotic shells because after what Taofledermaus said about Scott after the RN-50 accident, I don't watch his channel anymore. He was really the only guntuber that displays incredible types of 20ga, 12ga, and 10ga shells either custom made by fans or simply designs lost to time, so it'd be nice to see some other creators showing some love to the weird side of shotgun ammo
That salt and pepper round was brutal. In my youth a few of my friends and I were trespassing ( kids being dumb kids) we all caught rocksalt out of the farmers 12ga. It wasn't anything close to lethal.... but we all learned a valuable lesson
That was in the day's, Depending where you live, pepering someone today will get you in a lot of trouble, I even loaded some black bean rounds(Had no coarse salt), Today I have my pump with 1 st birdshot and next 4 buckshot, No pepering, just for seriuos confrontations, for kids 911 and a call to their folks
That shows the difference of cultures. In my country a farmer shooting a kid with actual deadly weapon would be imprisoned and beaten up by other inmates. Even in the past like 70's or 80's.
Glad a well known firearms-based content creator shed light on just how lethal LLRs can be. I've seen a real humans head split open from a baton round, less lethal does NOT mean not dangerous. (Also I really love his humor, I was cackling as he peeled out with the triaged ballistics dummy 😂👏)
Very true! I remember the language around these types of munitions used to be much more casual, it's important for the public to remember/be reminded that these arent party toys.
yeah a lot of media portray them like airsoft, but they are still shot from a real gun at gun speeds. the only real difference is theyre way less dense andd less prone to shattering on impact.
Amazing how dumb people are. It’s literally called “less lethal” for a reason. There is no such thing as “non lethal”. Got tired of explaining what is common sense to people years ago
I am retired law enforcement and I am curious how would the less lethal rounds act if your intruder had on a coat or leather. You have a very good channel 👍
Hi, actually I can answer that. In my country, Colombia we have turkish made "trauma" guns and ammo and they pack quite a bit of a punch. Some sturdy materials like nylon belts or heavy leather will stop them or slow them down, but the ball will deform the material and leave a good dent, and if your clothing is close to your skin, do expect that to hurt a lot. With body armor though, yeah, completely useless. On shotgun ammo, some brands make rubber slugs or single/double ball projectile, and I saw a guy shoot one into a (dead) pig's head which completely penetrated the front skull and still had enough energy to embed itself into the brain, and another guy shot some at a car's door. They went through the outer metal and still had enough energy to leave a huge dent on the back
If you are retired law enforcement, then you should know that you wouldn't even want this. What happens when you run into someone all dosed out on stimulants? I've never been anything official, just a street kid, but I've seen enough to make me cringe. Like a friend who took a 25 acp in the ear which twisted at an angle due to the low velocity and weight of the projectile, and he spit that bullet out and was able to drive off. I heard of a story online that was verified by multiple vloggers of a man who was shot over 10 times when a cop pulled him over. He was shooting back the entire time and even lived to make it to the hospital where he died. The surgeon was heard in the ER area saying, "why did the cop have to shoot him so many times?" And the officer was right next to him In another bed with a bullet wound. Lol. I have an answer to that ER doctors question. Sometimes you need to. And if you need to, you want to make sure to use the right tools for the job. The cop now carries over 100 rounds on his belt from what the reporters said.
I've been on a scene where a guy was hit with a bean bag round. He went down, but because he had a leather jacket on, the injury was pretty non-existent. The good thing was, he gave up, immediately after being hit with it. I have shot nuisance bears with them, and they do run off rather then have to use lethal rounds. They usually do not come back again.
they don't usually do a ton of damage, but you wish you were dead if you get hit with one of them from what I've heard. that's gotta hurt like a wasp the size of a Saint Bernard
Didn't a kid get killed by one of those a couple years ago? He got hit directly in the head and he dropped. Survived at first I think but died in the hospital due to brain damage
Just a thought. It's been a long time since you have done a pine board test. Might be pretty interesting to see some of the newly acquired calibers hit the pine board box.
You should do distance comparisons, possibly grab projectiles speeds ? See how the damage varies at distance and compare the speed of the LTL Projectiles. I know the boxes give a minimums distance in which these are considered less than lethal
I've used those foam slugs on bears before and can confirm that they do work quite well. More for encouraging a bear to leave the area than a defensive round for sure. They bounce off a bear, no apparent harm done.
I can't do without Scott's uploads on Thursdays. I had an especially bad day at work today, all 14 hours of it, but this video restored my mood. Bloody hillarious!
I’ve always been curious to see what different slug type rounds (700 Gr 500 mag, 1 1/4 ounce slugs etc) would do to a torso that has a ceramic plate protecting it as in organ damage or if things would rupture, would def be a cool video as I have not seen this concept anywhere else!
yep, but minimum distance usually can't be maintained so you gotta do what you gotta do. We were also taught to try to hit indirectly, so shoot at the ground in front of them so it would bounce up and hit them in the legs with less energy
@@joshkiej6601 on the civy side I see no advantage to them. You don’t really have any extra legal defense from using them, especially if the guy still dies, but if they start shooting back all the sudden your at a great disadvantage
@@nemoexnuqual3643 It seems that less than lethal is more of a deterrent. I guess I'm just a coward because if I was hit with rubber buckshot or a beanbag I'd probably try to run away. Then again I wouldn't break into someone's house under normal circumstances.
Well here in my country a 17yo kid was murdered by a riot police officer, a direct shot bean bag round in his nape at minus 10 meters. the most fucked up thing is he was the human rights instructor at the riot police academy...
I think more than anything, this demonstrated the limitations of ballistics gelatin as a testing medium. Consider that in calibration, a .177 caliber BB at about 440 fps will penetrate about 3 inches of ballistics gel. But as a man who grew up as a bored rural kid having BB gun wars, I can assure you, these BBs will not penetrate 3 inches into an actual human body.
Same. You can always tell where someone grew up when you tell them about those days- if it's a grin, they are just as guilty. If it's abject horror, they're city folk.. 😂
I mean...not a single person that has even the slightest idea of what they're talking about has ever claimed that ballistics gelatin is actually anything like real human skin and or flesh (or any other tissue for that matter). It is exclusively used as a baseline among all people testing the penetrative capabilities of different things. If everyone is testing with the same mixture ballistics gel, then those results can be compared. If some people are testing with gel, some with archery mats, others with plywood and some with human children, you couldn't possibly compare the results of these tests. Ballistics gelatin is not and never really was meant to resemble human tissue, it just somewhat coincidentally is similar-ish.
@@KeKsEfReSsEr200 Yes, ballistics gel was intended to give a homogeneous, calibrated substance with roughly the same density and elasticity as swine muscle and fat tissue. This is important because scientific method demands only one control in an experiment, so that any change in results can be attributed to the control. If you have a variable density testing medium, such as a "meat target," you introduce another control, and can now no longer attribute any change in the results to the ammunition being tested because you can no longer say for certain whether the change was due to the ammunition or some variable in the testing medium. Ballistics gel does okay within its limitations, but it was never intended to give one-on-one direct comparisons to real life results. So for example, we can't say that "X" amount of penetration in gel equates to "X" penetration, or even "Y" penetration, in living tissue. Rather, the best we can do is say that bullets which penetrate within a certain range, like 12 to 18 inches, generally penetrate deep enough in tissue to reach vital organs without exiting the body with enough remaining velocity to cause life threatening trauma to anyone struck after the projectile exits the body. Gelatin will give scientifically valid results that can be repeated, and compared on a relative scale. So we can say a round that penetrates further into gel will probably penetrate more tissue as well, but we can't translate this into exact predictions, only generalizations. The reason for this is because living tissue is complex, variable density, and rarely the same. Muscle tissue, for example, becomes more dense among physically active, so shooting a 300 pound body builder is going to yield drastically different results from shooting a 300 pound couch potato.
A cop buddy told me the closest they are allowed to use the bean bag rounds is 20 feet because if you get closer that that, they aren't so less lethal anymore and can penetrate into the body.... looks like you prived that one right Scott.
First of all, the laws in some states make use of a firearm deadly force regardless of the type of ammo. It's been a few years since I was on a riot control team (which is what most of this type of ammo was originally designed for) but all ammo of this type had a minimum distance at which it could be considered less than lethal, closer was considered deadly force. I noticed at least on camera Scott never read the package for proper usage. The idea that such ammo is suitable for home defense is laughable since in just about all situations you would be inside the minimum range.
Well I think these are good from a moral standpoint and not as a legal defense. Should have lethal coverage, but absolutely don't shoot anyone without being justified with lethal force.
In NJ, we can't even shoot an intruder unless we have 0 ability to escape. If I'm in a room with a window, I'm expected, by law, to jump out the window before I shoot the person coming at me. Stupid law.
@@Th3BlackLotus hmmm...sounds to me like the law you need to use instead then is the 3 S's law, "shoot, shovel, and shut up" 😂 it's the loophole law to all the BS laws stating you need a reason to blast someone invading on your property and risking your personal safety 😉
I always laugh at the "you just got jammed" guy. That gets me every time. And how about a shout out to Johnny Knoxville . He took a bean bag like a true champ.
@@notsoholycrusader3120 I mean... I feel like making it less lethal but hurt like hell is a good way to get someone to stop. Although I feel like just making the first round be bird shot would be effective enough. no need to get fancy with it.
I'm in impact munitions instructor school right now, the rubber pellets are good but what seems to have more ooph is the drag stabilized beanbag rounds.
There’s a reason why there’s a disclaimer on the less lethal ammo and why cops skip the rubber slugs off the road in crowd control/ riots, all those rounds are entirely capable of doing substantial damage but compared to standard ammo it truly is less lethal
I have been shot with 9mm and I think that i could probably still keep fighting after the first few rounds of rubber that he showed (assuming only one or the other shot me and i only got shot once) but that slug would definitely stop just about anyone Also ballistic gel dosent simulate skin and airsoft pellets can penetrate ballistic gel so most of these would tear muscle and cause a lot of bruising and severe pain and not break skin, the slug would absolutely break skin and at close range a shot to the head can still be very fatal its still a gun Id recomend steel birdshot for home defense and a lead slug for property defense, both are fatal but id rather not risk an attacker being on drugs and just not noticing the rubber bullets
While advertised as such, i don't think i know ANYONE that uses these for home defense. You break in, you deserve an FMJ surprise. The sad part is they're primarily used by police for riot control, and "less" lethal simply -isn't- when a lot of these are intended to be aimed at the chest. Gut shots and, as shown, head shots with a bean bag/rubber slug can/will/do often end in fatal injury. As someone else pointed out, that bag to the liver likely would have caused internal bleeding/ruptured liver and without immediate medical attention/surgery - death. And before someone pulls the "then dont be in a riot" card - They've fired these off at cameramen and news crews as well. "less" doesn't mean non-lethal and you should still understand that you're pointing a whole lot of compacted kinetic energy at another human being.
@GunGirl1997 id be afraid of buckshot going through walls (i have a small house) I also have an AR15 for multiple invaders if i need several shots in a short amount of time. Buckshot is fun though, I think it depends more on the situation what ammo or gun works best so obviously that means we need 2 of every gun, it’s clearly the only way to be prepared and not at all an excuse to buy more guns
@Paul Martin true, I normally call them pellets because i talk funny so bb sometimes sounds more like it has an h at the end (same with bee, see and most others that have the same end sound) so i just got used to calling them pellets, most people know what I mean and I don’t sound stupid for saying it
@GunGirl1997 if you have a large home or big rooms, sure, but I like the idea of birdshot for smaller homes at minimal ranges. If you wanna see what birdshot does at extreme close quarters, garandthumb made a video on that and it may surprise you :)
Youre assuming the home invader wont be armed themselves. Birdshot wont penetrate far and at those extreme close ranges youre more at risk of having your shotgun grabbed or wrestled away.
I was surprised how soft the gel was. I don't think you would see penetration like that on a person but a broken rib is a possibility for sure. I have used fiocchi rubber baton and lightfield rubber slugs on bears and they work pretty good.
I absolutely loved the 'less lethal' test! I have seen pictures posted by people of wounds from rubber bullets. Kinda believe them now! Always love when ballistics gel zombie can make an appearance too! Too cool brother man! Keep rockin'!!
I liked this. I could definitely see a part 2 with some other calibers, maybe rodent ammo, or something more exotic like the ball and chain rounds, or dragons breath and flammable clothing.
I have been curious for a long time about just what kind of effect these types of round would create. Looks like, for the most part, they would give plenty of incentive to an attacker to cease and desist in their actions without the probability of sending them to the morgue. Still, though, if choosing to use one of those I would want any follow up shots to be standard rounds for individuals who just can't take a hint.
I think you should name him Cooper the zombie! Hes a good sport and no matter what you do to him he is always back for more friendly educational tests! Id love to see some tests with more exotic rounds on him! Maybe some dragons breath with a shirt on him? or flechette shells if possible? Maybe even a SLAP round? IN A CONTROLLED SAFE WAY OF COURSE!!! But its all up to you Scott you make it fun and interesting every video!
The ones that penatrate but dont actually go too deep seem like they'd be actually effective in stopping them, having something in you might make you think you got hit by real rounds, and thats more demoralizing than just pain
Depends, considering I have violent meth addicts in my estranged family, I wouldn't trust LLR's. I've seen meth and other drug addicts keep going until there was no more blood and the brain finally shut off.
You definitely have to take into consideration that skin is insanely puncture resistant, more than we even realize. Ive read something before about skin being equivalent to 5 inches of ballistic gel in bullet tests, but don't repeat that because I can't remember the correct number or source. Next time you're grilling a Boston Butt or any other pork that comes with skin, do some experimentation on how difficult it is to puncture it with things, even a knife isn't as easy as you think.
Nope for sure. Skin is more like rubber than gelatin. Though in the beanbag's case that's a _bad_ thing. That first shot Scott took that hit our torso boy in the gut? Ruptured liver for damn sure.
@@DinnerForkTongue Yeah but a liver shot punch from Bas Rutten can also rupture your liver. So I guess the question is, which would you rather have fired at you, the beanbag, or a large bald angry Dutchman?
I think you and Demo need to work together again for this idea: shotgun junk shells vs dummys. Coins, Lego, batteries, unloaded bullets, clay, play dough, hardtack- if it fits, it ships. It’ll be a nice homage to Matt’s past, and it’ll show what happens when you load random garbage into a shotgun
@@timmytimay602 Tao have maintained the content over the years, yes, but I’d love to see Matt go back to his goofy roots and make content like this again, even if it’s just a single episode. Plus now they can use things like the ballistic dummies to test and see just how effective some of these homemade shells actually are.
I may be Canadian and not know much about guns, but these videos always brighten my day and help me learn things about firearms that I wouldn't learn anywhere else. Thanks for the great content Kentucky ballistics keep up the great work 👍👍
Consider saving up and getting you a gun. A Mossberg Maverick 88 costs roughly $225 U.S. dollars, which isn't much for a decent gun with all around general purpose.
There's nearly 3 million gun owners in Canada. Gun culture is strong here In Canada. The state run media just wants to talk about the criminals with guns though. Get yourself a Winchester defender and order some of those extended range rubber slugs from Cabela's . You won't be disappointed, trust me lol
As messed up as it sounds, legally you're better off using lethal force on somebody that breaks into your house or tries to rob you. That really shouldn't be true, but there's enough cases out there that prove it is.
Man appart from the fun of these videos, the content you make is truly useful and insightful to make a proper choice of equipment and cut through the BS. This is the actual effect it will do to your target, not the marketing statement about it. Many thanks.
The head shot was awesome in slo-mo. thanks for all the crazy content, love it. You need to get the ballistic guys to make you a batch of thumbs , you know just in case of an emergency
I'll let someone else use the "less than lethal"exotic rounds for self defense & see what the DA in their jurisdiction has to say about it. A viable alternative to buckshot & rounds marketed to the police would be to use #5 turkey rounds. I defy the most hoplophobic DA to claim that using a hunting round in self defense is tatamount to being a wannabe cop.
From personal experience I've been hit by something similar to the salt and pepper you shot it was rock salt in a shotgun slug very painful will stick in the skin not a pleasant experience but definitely not something that leaves lasting damage so as a less lethal option it is quite effective
I'm deeply disappointed in the lack of jokes after the salt and pepper round. Seasoned criminal? He's gonna be salty after getting shot with that? Come on.
I always wanted to know how those "less than lethal" rounds do. I would love to have those for personal protection at my ranch. Thanks for the demo Scott, very entertaining!
Loads of fun! In law enforcement use beanbags are sort of a stand-off option for say, a suicidal subject. What will it do at 15 or 20 yards; a more appropriate stand-off distance.
My 5yr old is cackling at “they’re like little pimples” *fart noise* she loves these test zombie videos for some reason, this one just became her favorite.
1 small nitpick, you aimed directly at the dummy with the rubber 12 gauge. That’s incorrect. Rubber ammunition is meant to be bounced off of the ground rather than aimed directly. This is why police aiming directly at civilians with rubber ammunition is such an issue.
I can answer this question before the video starts. "Less lethal" ammo is more effective than a TASER but less effective than an M249. But you also need to remember that the "rubber bullets" are NOT made to shoot directly at someone. They're supposed to be skipped off the ground in most instances. But I still think the coolest "less lethal" weapons are the little Hornet's Nest rubber ball grenades. Chuck one of those little bastards through a door opening, get back behind the wall, and listen to the beautiful sounds of grown men crying for several minutes.
I legit busted out laughing at the confetti round lol I was like "confetti round? wtf is that? sounds like it turns you into confetti, how is that less lethal?" *literal confetti shoots out* Me: *WHEEEEZE*
15:00 I'd think with using a firearm to defend yourself, it'd be harder to defend the use and justification of a "less lethal round" over a "lethal round", with the prosecution arguing that you did not feel that your life was threatened since you were using said type of round(s).
