I can personally vouch for the coaching sessions for anyone looking for in-depth information into the mind of a really good top player. June is **very** good at explaining what's going on in his head and how things work, and it's a ton of fun asking for information about particular interactions between players in-game. Definitely one of my go-to folks when it comes to breaking the game down into different layers (a game ==> a stock ==> an interaction ==> a micro-interaction ==> ???), and his proficiency shows in his confident presentation of ideas in these videos!~ Excellent video as always dude!
It's really too bad that Yoshi has unique mechanics to make up for his badness, like dj armor, no shield stun, parry, djl, djc, and more. Mewtwo has a couple unique ones, like double jump extension, djl, djc, and battlefield cheese, but God his weight and size and fall speed are all just miserable, everything is just cc'd beyond all reason, and you only have one kill aerial and kill throws to rely on. Mewtwo lives a hard life.
Smooth-brain: leaving Melee on for twenty hours to unlock Mewtwo. Wrinkly-brain: leaving a Melee match on for five hours with four controllers plugged in.
One thing I really like about PM Mewtwo is just how strong they are in concept. The teleport and hover mechanics, regardless of how strong they actually are, SOUND incredible on paper. Makes them feel appropriately legendary.
Have you ever heard of Project M: Legends? It essentially takes the best version of every PM character and put it into one version. So 3.02 Mewtwo, Pit, Mario, 2.6b Sonic, Ike, 3.5 Ganon, 3.6 G&W, you get the point. It’s my favorite version of PM to date. My roommate and I in college spent half of 2015 and all 2016 playing the shit out of that game 🙂
17:09 Either remove the insanely good omnidirectional hover or make Teleport freefall, it already had almost no landing lag in Melee anyways, it didn't need another buff.
It was more of a haha funny cuz there's a lot of things you can do to buff/nerf any char I believe it has landing lag now, as part of P+s attempt to universally nerf recoveries Removing hover could work! I wanna see Beyond Melees attempt at M2 and see what I think of it
I would love to see more of this series! Ness and Bowser are definitely characters I would like to see personally from Melee to PM. Or just any Low/bottom Tiers from Melee to PM.
Crazy how a passionate modding community can actually restore a character's lore-established reputation and developers can pull talent from said community to help improve their game(s) through that symbiotic relationship. I mean thats so crazy right?
Mewtwo's reflect does damage the enemy, it just passes through the 1st one. So it's useless in 1v1, but in teams it can hit whoever is behind the person who shot the projectile (Maybe it was meant to be a "tricky" mind game for casuals).
well that was definitely compelling. amazing work, great editing, informative and engaging and very nice presenting. good shit yo, imma get back to mewtwo and give him another shot
You're my favorite RU-vid and the only RU-vid channel that I have notifications on. I love video essays and especially ones on my favorite game series I love the content and can't wait to see more!
I remember when Mewtwo was so busted in PM that this guy paused accidentally while in the blast zone and his opponent made him take the next stock so he could finally steal a win
PM feels like a very power crept game and I think Mewtwo is kinda the peak of that. Hover + Teleport Buff is all this character needed, everything else is just gravy.
Also important to note is that Mewtwo got a significant weight buff in PM/P+. Fox's Uthrow > Uair is now either extremely tight or just doesn't work with the right defensive play, for example. He's still one of the easier characters to kill off the top overall, but he can be tough to land kill confirms on now.
Nair THROUGH shield, always through, if you space your landing frame it will almost always shield poke, you may not get a followup but at least you'll annoy people out of their defensive modes Edit:also f throw can be useful in ONE situation, separating icies
I miss Project M. Ultimate is great but if Nintendo stayed out of things, and we had no Ultimate, Project M would be everywhere right now, and I'd still be having a great time with it, and have people to play with. Now everyone I know moved to Ultimate and is mostly bored with it now. Ganon and Mewtwo in PM were hecking awesome.
I was a Mewtwo main when I first played Melee as a 5 year old because he was the most powerful pokemon so nobody could beat him, and I still think he is the coolest character in the game in terms of character design (not gameplay design, just how he looks and moves around and stuff; like nobody else looks cooler using a beam sword or hammer). Anyway thanks for making a video on Mewtwo I enjoyed watching it!
While I would never advocate for overpowered characters existing, if ANY character should be overpowered it's freaking Mewtwo. Hated how bad he was in melee, loved how PM revived him (and yeah maybe 3.02 was excessive with the buffs lol). Great video.
My brother is also a big fan of Mewtwo. He also loves the smash 4 version a lot where they went a very different direction than PM but still made him top tier (he plays P+ Mewtwo as well though). In smash 4 they got rid of not just part of the tail the way they did in PM, but basically the whole thing. This gave him a sword that was actually larger than Marths in multiple cases, with only really Cloud being able to actually out-range him. (Cloud and Mario were thought to be the only characters who beat Mewtwo, and Wadi beat some of the best Clouds at the time so it was hardly unwinnable). Rather than give him a float for additional mixups or let him act out of TP for vertical mobility the way PM did, they actually removed DJC entirely. To let him extend his combos/punish they went the more simple route and increased his run speed and (something that will sound crazy for how floaty smash 4 is) actually increased his fast fall speed to make his aerials better. Instead of float he uses his insane air speed (which was much stronger relative to the rest of the cast due to the removal of ground to air momentum) to space his aerials and tilts, as well as an invisible airdodge that could be acted out of faster than most characters and was extremely difficult to track, letting him essentially spotdodge punish but in the air (kind of like aggressively teleporting at people in PM), and his now further disjointed attacks (Nair got bigger too and SDI is way weaker) to mix between spacing and overshooting in the air to pressure you. You could try to punish his aerials with some characters, but between the airdodge and spacing it wasn't something even pros were doing. They also reworked his fair which has a massive impact on his gameplan. Instead of the vertical combo move (which he didn't really need since he could Nair you and land air to air or air to ground dragging you the whole way for a pop up and you couldn't really SDI it) they just made it send straight out. Like PM Bowser/Melee Sheik fair (so he basically uses it like a better version of his aerial finisher like down b in P+, but can also use it as a quick combo starter at mid %). If you DI in it basically has a Falcon knee effect at some %s where he could combo it into itself, especially when you were offstage and had to recover. They also increased it's horizontal range slightly (so he could space that too). He's almost like a combination of Melee Puff and Falco, or like a more committal streamlined version of his P+ self in smash 4. He alternates between safe pokes and strong pressure (where he can also threaten an infinite against a lot of the cast) to absolutely dominate the neutral, then uses that to rack up % until he can get a big opening and blow you up (he just Knocks you off and aerials you, or drags you off with nair for a free gimp), or until you are at high % and have to fear his grab mixups.
ngl I'd love to see someone who played Smash 4 Mewtwo at a high level do their own follow-up analyzing how Smash 4 fixed Mewtwo (and then why he kinda fell off in Ultimate) It's particularly interesting because he wasn't that good when he was first added to Smash 4 - instead he kinda just got shadow-buffed for 5 patches in a row and then one day everyone woke up and was just like "wait this character is a top tier now. what the fuck" Because, like, Smash 4 Mewtwo has some really interesting stuff going for him. His fair is one of the best in the game, arguably *the* best. Bair is actually useful as a poke. He has the nair, footstool, disable pseudo-infinite. Confusion actually reflects and while it's not the most useful as an actual command grab it *does* give him some cool recovery mixups. He also benefits a *ton* from Perfect Pivots thanks to both how long his perfect pivot length is and his strong pokes like dtilt and ftilt. He also had some really fun shenanigans with JC up smash.
What they did to Mewtwo in Ultimate was absolutely tragic and uncalled for. Mewtwo was like the one Smash 4 top tier that wasn't jank or BS and actually was a well designed character. And, then the devs just completely nerfed him under the assumption that the fact he was less than 10 spots away from Bayonetta meant he was broken and jank.
I actually really don't like how FThrow looks. The actual animation on Mewtwo is almost entirely disconnected and neither GFX nor SFX really help it, it's really lame for what should be really cool. This gets even worse when you look at GFX for moves like USmash, which looks cool. PM Mewtwo in general doesn't look good because his model is terrible (look at his thighs) and none of the animations were touched up from Melee, but he plays so much better than in Melee even on casual level. I can at least give the dev team props for pulling that off even if they severely overcompensated for it.
I love this series! I've learned so much about low-mid tiers in melee, and how their tools actually work, and I've also enjoyed learning about how the P+/PM dev team rework them to be more competitively viable. I've always loved melee Mewtwo, and this video not only taught me more about how his tools work, but also has made me consider picking him up in P+ Awesome video, Junebug! Your content never fails to edutain! (educate and entertain :>)
Ive been playing mewtwo on slippi, and I prefer how up B worksin melee as strictly only a movement tool. Due to weird coding on landing from special fall it makes it nearly lagless. And while hover is fun it is a bit broken. I also think they made mewtwo backair faster in P+ comes out like frame 10 instead of 12 I think. I would enjoy P+ more if it was just about balance and not trying to give each character a broken tool/option
Because then it becomes a game of who can abuse the broken option better, mewtwo hover, kirby aerial side cutter, waddle dee dashing, etc. Its definitely a fun game to play, but difficult for me to take seriously
Seems like you could nerf the teleport by making M2 not regain it after being hit. Making it basically a special double jump, which feels in line with what it's supposed to be in PM. Still leaves it with very safe recovery, but if M2 does get gimped, it's gimped hard.
Hot take: Mewtwo's tail hurtbox in Melee was good, actually. Its a unique spin on the "bigger hurtbox" weakness associated with large characters, and it emergently affects how he plays in a way that makes the character more interesting. Though If i were to improve him, I'd try to improve his tooling a little bit to help him deal with the tail but i would never remove it. Increase his dash dance just a little bit so he has a little more leeway in outspacing, make his shield bigger so his body is more protected, and then increase his weight so combos on him work more like hitting Samus (this would improve his CC game, while also making him harder to combo and therefore KO).
Hey just curious if anyone's got an answer, how active is the P+ community? If I am a big noob, will I get nonstop severely clowned on, or only occasionally severely clowned on?
it's a small and dedicated group of players right now. you may take a few lickings for now if you're new, but the PM/+ community is very nice and is super willing to give advice and whatnot
These are my favorite types of videos. Absolutely top tier content, I learned from this video. While at the same time it being entertaining, relaxing, and inspiring for me to mess around with Mewtwo. Great stuff keep it up much love!
minor error at 4:10: sideb does actually reflect the projectile, but it doesn't reflect the projectile's ownership (basically the reason why falco cant laser himself no matter what melee fuckery you throw at him) You can see that this is true because sideb works against bombs, since those are projectiles that can hurt their owners
I've now watched two Melee Mewtwo videos in as many months, and while this one is much better put together than the other one, neither has talked about Melee Mewtwo's Smash attacks. I'll contribute a little bit of info Down Smash is Mewtwo's best Smash attack by a _large_ margin. It can be used for edge guarding (and has an odd edge tech timing), it has good knockback considering its low damage so it's a kill option, and the IASA frames are insanely good, akin to L-Canceling, which can lead to tricky mix-up situations for certain characters. Up Smash is a lot more niche, it _can_ kill but you have much better options, it's a touch disjointed so it can hit through the platforms on a few stages (it's capable of beating Peach's down smash on those stages if she uses the attack anticipating a jump), but mainly it looks cool and acts as a second taunt. Forward Smash also exists. Severely underpowered with a joke of a sweetspot hitbox. Use anything else unless you're really trying to flex.
@@arJunebugSmash thank you! I don't know anything about the current PM Mewtwo (besides what you talked about in this video), but if I recall correctly the smash attacks were buffed pretty significantly, especially F-Smash? If my memory isn't failing me that's pretty crazy when added to the other tech you covered in this video. I did play PM Mewtwo but that was years ago and I never really got the hang of the new stuff. I liked the earlier PM Bowser a lot though lol
@@Telcontar86 yup! reduced the startup by over 10 frames. rukaidata.com/P+/Mewtwo/subactions/AttackS4S_2.html?up=18.97215&down=-2.0172708&left=-14.728463&right=31.43&frame=4 i honestly could have covered some mewtwo smash stuff, but i omitted a good amount of specifics for the sake of a cohesive narrative lol. early PM boozer was A MENACE
