In the Jojo game from 2013 two of the characters could spend meter to fight with a stopped clock, one’s ultimate sent him back in time which healed him some and put more time on the clock, and another permanently sped up the clock as well as slowed down the opponent for the rest of the match (Jotaro, DIO, Kosaku Kawajiri, and Enrico Pucci) It’s not to the extent of Geras but it’s an interesting point of reference EDIT: Since so Many people mentioned it in the Jojo game by Capcom Jotaro and DIO had time shenanigans with the only difference being you had a max of 10 bars instead of 3
One thing that comes to mind is a strategy that cropped up in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: All Star Battle. Joseph Joestar's move where he predicts his opponent's words, depending on the character he's fighting, will have him say a lengthy voice line, and his opponent will say the same voice line. The trick is, that during this entire process, the timer's still ticking. Some Joseph players would intentionally use this move to run out the clock.
@@Stumblebee On top of that, he has the fastest backwards run in the game. There's also three or four main villain Stand users who use time in some way. I believe black hair-Kira can rewind the timer with his ultra, and Pucci can speed the timer up if his ultra works.
@@RougeMephilesClone part 3,4,5 and 6 main antagonists use time abilities, and for your example yes "Kozaku Kawajiri" or the new Yoshikage Kira has bite the dust, which lends him the ability to rewind time to if they find who the stand users via Hayato, but it rewinds the day and only Hayato knows what happened the 1st time it rewinds, although Kira knows due to Hayato's behaviour in the morning
Thanks for not bashing NR fighting games just because you don't enjoy them. You always look on both sides of the coin and that's what i love about your videos.
As long as you enjoy what you play, you do you. I can, at least, appreciate the sheer production of NRS titles. Its like a modern day AAA game's presentation with a rock solid fighting game to go with it. They're great and I wish I knew how to like em!
I think nrs could do alot if they didnt have to launch a game every 2 years. Mk11 is already lightyears ahead of their previous titles. I didnt like mk games but im impressed
Knight Warrior ikr? Usually when someone doesn't like something, they try to make it seem bad and drag others into their own opinion as if it was a fact. But this guy did the opposite. Kudos!
I like the infinite time option in games because it helps casual play. Sometimes my little cousins play DBFZ with me when they visit and I don't want the timer to run out while they're figuring out how a character works or asking for help.
Right, it has big balance implications for competitive play and running a tournament (why wouldn't someone play a match up like it is Quidditch if they wanted to tire their opponent out) but there is a lot of good in being able to practice without necessarily going into practice especially with limited training stages in many games.
Oh for sure, infinite time has its place, but if you're even one step above casual, or you're playing someone who's at the same skill level, keep the timer on!
@Korekiyo Prod francais I came looking for this comment. I like shutting the timer down because then your opponent HAS to defeat you, the old fashioned way. I personally think that playing keep-away with a life lead and running down the clock is the lamest way to win. Ultimately, i prefer to play with the clock on, but saying that the clock off is for low-level play is not accurate, in my opinion.
@@lewiswood9286 this. I'm even surprised people say playing on no-time is casual play... I mean, i guess it probably is as I'm a casual player myself when it comes to fighting games, for i only played them multiplayer with friends and family; but there's ways and ways to have fun and honestly, the few times we willing played with clock on zoning/spamming was too viable of a tactic in the few fighting games we played, not because zoning itself is good, but because it's just better than going straight to their face when you're counting on the timer, with an exception for games with a telelort on most characters, zoning is useful foe eating away at the clock no matter if you do damage or not, and unless in you're high-level play, that honestly gets tiring and old REALLY QUICK.
Not gonna lie, "time tug of war" sounds pretty awesome...the first few times you see it. I can see it being entertaining as hell, followed by everyone just being completely sick of it.
there is unranked and ranked modes in ranked modes gear is turned off and you can only pick one of two preset variations for every character. so no unless you only play unranked you will never deal with this move/
of his variations, people often choose the temporal trap/time bomb variation. Because he can create projectiles on a timer that he can ync with his command grab to make people scared as hell. The more esoteric variation hasn't seen much use because of how difficult it is
I always thought Jason Voorhees was a more creative way they tried to address the problem of grapplers being slow amd unthreatening to certain characters at range. They basically went "We should make a grappler... that can teleport full screen to get behind you". It sounds broken as hell as a concept but they made it fair since you could still get baited out but it was something you had to factor in to your zoning and pressure game because one false move or hesitation and he's closed the gap or forced a side switch like if he now has you stuck in the corner instead.
I’m actually so glad you brought up Isaac from Skullgirls; I remember watching the streams where the dev team was trying to show off how Isaac could work and I still wish he had been one of the winning DLC picks. I guess Geras is a kind of spiritual successor even if it’s a total coincidence.
I've never ever seen a character that can manipulate time in such a fashion, the only thing I've seen before that has to do with time, are Dio Brando & Jotaro Kujo from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Heritage of the Future for the CPS3. Both Characters can trigger a power that lets them Stop time, including the timer. By using one stock in their meter for every passing second
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: All-Star Battle actually have two characters who can manipulate the timer to a small degree - Kosaku Kawajiri's 2-bar super adds 10 seconds to the clock alongside dealing damage, recovering a portion of his health, and returning both characters to their starting positions; and Pucci's 2-bar super greatly accelerates the timer while slowing down the opponent's movement, making it practically a guaranteed time-out tool. The timer rate increase is probably 3-4x normal. If you like wacky mechanics in a fighting game (including stopping time and other crazy stuff), definitely give it a look. It touches on a lot of mechanics I've never seen in other games.
Was actually going to comment this, seems like nobody remembers the Jojo time shenanigans, although it isn't like the Jojo fighting games are particularly great aside from Heritage.
@@_GuiltyGhost As a serious All-Star Battle player, I beg to differ. If you give the game a chance, you might be surprised. I upload videos of it from time to time, gonna upload some FT3 sets soon.
I totally agree man. When I first saw that timer move I thought "that's so cool" and "no ones ever done this before?" I feel like fighting games don't take that many risks when it comes to play styles and moves, so much so that the best way to describe a character's play style in a game is to just name OTHER fighting game characters. "what's he play like?" "He's Guile." I feel like there's a whole untaped world of crazy fighting games moves/mechanics that were not tapping into but Geras is a step in the right direction.
If you like this sort of thing you should really give blazblue a look. The whole point of that game is to make every character play in such an insane fashion that they can't be compared to any other fighting game. (For example, Nine can get different special moves by mixing elements based on her normals. For example she'll have different specials based on if she previously hit two water moves and a fire move, or of she hit an air move and two fire moves. Hazama has chains that can let him pull himself around the arena)
>no ones ever done this before? play blazblue dude, it always pains that me that people ask for this stuff when it already exists there are so many insane things in that game nine is literally a mage! (yes, u can cast spells) rachel can control wind kokonoe uses gravity izanami can STOP TIME
Try Blazblue. Or Guilty Gear. Or Heritage for the Future. In those games lie time shenanigans, shadow clone moves, bullet hell characters, random items moves, and other such madness.
Knightmare007 As a normie, it's my duty to spread bland and dead memes. *DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB DAB*
Your videos almost single-handedly got me interested in competitive fighting games so more content on that would be nice, whether it be technique explanations or historys focusing on the tournament scene, I don't really mind just more vides really
Another good competitive fighting game channel is one called Core-A Gaming, and although they focus mostly on Street Fighter IV and V, they still talk about other games and most of the time their videos apply to *all* fighting games.
You should do a video on Fighting Ex Layer, it’s an awesome fighting game, personally I love playing as D. Dark. I recently bought it and it’s fantastic.
I'm just happy a new Mortal Kombat character is getting a lot of love. Especially from someone who's not really into the series to begin with! I find *Geras* extremely interesting both lore and gameplay-wise!! 😍😎🤣
Huh! The rewind ability sounds A LOT like the proposed rewind mechanic in David Sirlin’s design doc for Street Fighter Flashback (his game pitch to Capcom from 2006), right down to the 4-second limit. This is really cool. I’ve always wanted to see how something along those lines might actually play out in real matches.
I know in some of the arch system games like blaze blue if you sacrifice your burst to buff your charecter it pauses the timer which people use But that's not the same to this mechanic but maybe some inspiration there
I stumbled across this video because I've never really been a fan of fighting games, and the title interested me; however, what was really interesting about this video for me, was your explanation of the clock. As someone unfamiliar with the genre, who has really only played these types of games at LANs, I never paid any attention to the clock. Well, I apparently should have, as I would have come to appreciate the ebb-and-flow of the game, and better understand how fighter mechanics relate to that ebb-and-flow. If anything though, what interests me about the future of fighting games is an embrace of moveset customization, as I think it would make the mind-games a little more interesting, as you would have information you could conceal from your opponent.
i just wanna mention this because i don't really see it in other top comments, but the main timer manipulation things that come to mind for me are from comeback mechanics like umvc3's x factor or melty blood's heat. both of these pause the timer to allow a losing player to take back the tide of the match.
I remember when RevergeLabs were pushing for that time fella, back when the Skullgirls campaign was running. KInda wish they had gone with their own picks, rather than fan picks. Que será, será.
I 100% get what you say about not getting into nrs games. I think what makes them uninteresting to me is how linear and repetitive they feel. To ilustrate it: until I watched your video, I had no idea Geras' time stop ability could be activated whenever. The gameplay I had watched was so samey that I thought it was part of his string
Two characters that can stop time just for the opponent that come to my mind are Hades Izanami from the Blazblue series and Dio from the Jojos Bizarre adventure fighting games.
I completely disagree with your view on the timer. Matches with even participants have the most tension. Timers primarily exist to make sure matches don't last too long in public scenes. Running out the timer in most competitions is considered unsportsmanlike. Even as a player matches ending because of the timer feels terrible, win or lose. Pros that take advantage of it only care about the payout.
@@Stumblebee Thanks, I do agree that Geras' interaction with the timer is a really cool idea. My opinions didnt stop me from watching and liking the video.
A bit late here and I know it's not an original in concept and design but Geiger from Fantasy Strike has pretty solid time bending moveset... And his time bending ability/move is unique in itself as he can only stop time for his opponent and than take advantage out of it... And it is the most balanced move in term of the time mechanics...
Exactly, the rewind shit looks EXTREMELY punishable but the fucking clock shit just seems not fun at all to fight against. Like that alone is enough for me to not want to pick up the game.
@@donnig5053 His basic combos are weak, I agree. But his potential to juggle with meter burns is crazy. He can cut through 250~300 portions of health if you get caught in one.
Raven from Eternal Champions CD (aka Eternal Champions: Challenge from the Darkside) had a mechanic where she could add or subtract from the in-game timer. She literally threw a hourglass at the timer and adds or subtracts from it. Good video, Geras also caught this non-NRS player based on his move set.
I have zero interest in fighting game tournament play, so I've never been an advocate for timers in fighting games. But the case made for them here is enough to make me reconsider my extremely casual stance on them.
I'm in the same boat as you with NRS. I love the concept and characters but the gameplay of their games doesn't feel right even when you ignore the animation issues. Undoubtedly they truly love their games and that is why I always am awe inspired by their efforts to make us love their characters and world. When you said Geras has the ability to rewind time by 4 secs at most moments It was shocking but when you showed his ability to change the timer, I almost had a heart attack. Great video man.
I freaking laughed at the moment that guy put the timer to infinite. The video was great, and i didn't knew about Giras time manipulation, that's an awesome mecanic. Btw, what's your thoughts on the Evo lineup? Edit: About him getting back on his position 4 seconds ago, it reminded me of Ekko ult in League od Legends, that he would go back to his position 4 seconds ago while doing a aoe attack, here he goes back to his position and can also do different stuff, they got an idea of a Moba, modified it and included in a fighting game, amazing.
The Evo lineup is kinda awesome. Really happy that UNIST made it. That fanbase deserves it. The 'obscure fighting game for weebs' market has been ignored at Evo since Melty Blood made it in 09(I think?). And yeah! Ekko was dominating the meta when I last played League. Maybe NRS can take a few UI hints from Riot in regards to showing where Geras was four seconds ago.
Tracer from overwatch also has a literal time rewind that works 100% exactly the same as geras' so they might have gotten the idea from there possibly aswell
What pissed me off about this video.... "Removing timers is handicapping fighting games" Me, an intellectual: TIMERS WERE ADDED TO ARCADE FIGHTING GAMES SO YOU'D SPEND MORE MONEY. TIMERS HANDICAP FIGHTING GAMES
On the subject of Skullgirls Time-manipulators, I remember something about Aeon possibly being a character who could also screw around with time (something about the engine's savestate support being surprisingly conducive to those kinda ideas).
I brought injustice 2 LE on sale, and finished the story mode last. I totally understand your viewpoint of wanting to like NRS games but needing to get used to the way they feel and flow. MK11 look fun and interesting. Had no idea this guy was so crazy with his time powers, and I was actually hoping you would mention Isaac and his similar abillitys. Great video, awesome to see back. (Speaking of SG, I would love if you talked about that games crazy production.)
That sounds like an amazing use of the characters character inspiring their moveset, but damn does that sound like something that will be exploited to oblivion and back. I can't wait to see how it plays out with the pros!
So, something that I should have touched on in the video is the possibility that these moves may not even be that good. You need to give up a lot to use them, and Geras may be better off without his time gimmicks. But that doesn't change the fact that it's such a good idea and super unexplored design space.
Thanks! I try to average a video a month. This isn't anywhere close to a full time job for me, so I try to make content at a pace that wouldn't burn me out as hard. Still trying to figure that out :p
Weak argument because you only highlight all the points in favor of time based character while downplaying its gamebreaking potential. Time limit is an equalizer. Making it a crucial resource that can only be manipulate by only one character is like giving one character a super meter while giving all the others none. That's absolutely dumb matter what standpoint you're looking it from. From pro player's this make Geras type the meta and should be pick at the first chance or atleast a crutch character but it will limits the variety. From casual's this will make the experience mind-numbingly boring as they faced the 1000th Geras in the match. From developer's especially those that specialized in casual experience like Netherealm, they will see a a gradual drop in interest and revenue from all the points above: lacks of character variety means boring E-sports. And casual players stop putting up with the percieved brokeness means less players from target demograph. And the biggest gripes with your argument is that you cited J.Wong made his career on running away and look where he is now. He became irrelevant MVC3 is done and SFV is so fast pace it leave little room for his playstyle. Absolutely no one likes to watch a lame play in ANY competitive sports, ever. Just ask anyone who have seen Floyd Mayweather vs Manny Paqiao match. And time manipulation is nothing new. Jotaro Kujo and DIO from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Zasalamel from Soul Calibur. The list goes on...
exactly, i hate how NRS games are the least interesting fighting games yet they get the most attention cause idiot casuals like this guy have 0 idea what they are talking about to add to the list, izanami (blazblue) can also stop time (from a distance by charging a move or with a special close range grab)
Don't assume that one ability will make the character broken. If his actual kit doesnt stack up to the rest of the cast - as is generally the case with grapplers - he'll just be a weird gimmick character.
This was a very illuminating video! I'm glad you've jumped on the NRS train so you can enjoy what I've loved over the past half decade! Edit: Burst out laughing at 5:40
I only realized this after two days of playing Mk11 but the granular kustom variation system is the games biggest problem. What makes certain things great is the complexity hidden behind its simplicity and the variation system in Mk11 is definitely not that hence why they introducing weird rules like banning kustom variations in tournaments or kompetitive matches online
5:22 I can't tell if that's a joke or not (looks like it, but I really can't tell), but I hope it is. Arena fighters are fighting games, and even though most of them are bad and none of them reach the heights traditional fighters have, I still believe in their potential. That Kill la Kill game is gonna' make some good strides forward. Great video! I love unique gameplay styles in action games, so I appreciate what NetherRealm's done with this fellow. The Blazblue, Guilty Gear, and Persona Arena series won major points from me for being like this, and it's one of the reasons why the PSP Dissidia games (not the homogenized arcade sequel) are my favourite games.
First, welcome back! Hope the break helped you recharge. 😁 As for the video, I 100% agree about NRS games. I can't justify getting them at launch anymore, simply because as much as I love story mode and all the dressing, I just don't find them fun to actually play. The stiffness of the combat just feels wrong coming from my 2d SF/MvC/GG background, and even worse compared to all the 3d games. As for time travel mechanics, the only one that I've come across I think would be Bedman from Xrd. That was the one new character I really enjoyed, mostly because I loved the uniqueness of replaying a move. I find with Arcsys, as much as I appreciate the innovation and variety of playstyles, they also tend to go overboard at times (which is why I can't get into Blazblue). Anyway, looking forward to more great content! ✌💗
Samsho V Special has a couple of time based mechanics: Rage explosion stops the timer and Concentration mode slows down time itself. Also JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (1998, Capcom) with the time stops.
In Samurai Shodown you can stop the timer by using the rage explosion, basically you waste your rage meter for the whole match and for a short period of time you do more damage and the timer stop running. It's a risky comeback mechanic that if used in the wrong way can put you in disadvantage, but you know in SamSho it's all about big risky things
In case if you didn't know, the fan made game called Crusis Fatal Fake using the FSN and Fate Hollow character, there is a character called Avenger and his Ultimate aka last resort was to create a save point. Now, the condition is that if he didn't die but his master die, he will use Bad End and reset you back to the point that he activate the Ultimate. That was way better execution than Geras here.
Not in a fighting game but smite had a character called chronus that could return his position and health to we're it was 2 or 3 seconds before (sorry forgot exact time) as an ult.
Arcana Heart had the Time Arcana, a variation that you tacked on to a character, which had few moves that toyed with the time counter . One sped up everything but your opponent, which could be used to make your mix-ups unreactable or as a Hail Mary to secure a time out win. You could also stop time(and projectiles, and your opponent, etc) completely for 7 seconds which is INSANE. And on a little flavor note, some of the passives changed your combo... timing. Super fun, but no way to add time tho', it seems that the time tools were more focused on setups and offensive opportunities than allowing stalling and laming it out.
The moment I saw the title, I thought of Isaac too. As a similar minded person, ( love fighting games, not in love with NR stuff) this vid has actually got me interested in trying it myself.
