I've tried both styles of protein intake and never seem to see any difference. The biggest point I can advise is stay consistent with training and just always try to keep protein in mind when eating. Happy GAINZ!
How low can you go with total protein intake in g/kg of weight for it to not negatively impact results? I was reading Brad Pilon’s “How much protein” and it seems for a 180cm male it could be 90-100 g/day total, maybe even less.
An important point not discussed and usually missed. Take an amount of steak (slow digestion) and an amount of whey (fast digestion) each representing 3g leucine but consider the fact that muscle protein synthesis lasts only 2-3h after a meal. Now the steak will only be half digested during this period whereas the whey protein will be almost completely digested. The leucine from the steak will at best have only half the effective value relative to this MPS window. Similiar to an amount of Casein representing 3g leucine, the steak may not trigger the leucine threshold. A larger dose of steak would be necessary.
Great update on this subject. I wonder how people who take in 300g + of protein balance their meals. I think at that point it doesn't really matter anymore since each meal will be pass the ideal protein cap
I suspect they sacrifice their micros to reach their macros. I generally feel great at 15-20% fat and 120g protein at 73kg. I workout 6x a week and take one protein shake per day.
What I like about Layne is that he doesn't claim to have all the answers, like some RU-vid 'experts.' He explains what the studies show and how best to interpret them. This stuff is complicated and in many cases there are no absolute answers, just theories. He doesn't try to simplify things into some BS explanation. '
Hey Layne, Can you expand on the subject you touched on about Whey Vs. Casein. I typically choose casein because of the slower digestion and satiety throughout the day but I hate to know that I was sacrificing optimal protein synthesis while training for competition.
I think an easier study would be to just compare the results of eating the same diet spread over the day vs. OMAD (which I'm pretty sure has been done.) The secondary issue is that there are more changes than just muscle protein synthesis between these two eating patterns.
@@mcfarvo The first meal of the day is most important because after overnight catabolism the body is primed to take in protein and amino acids and that makes the first meal extremely important. It doesn't have to be first thing in the morning. Furthermore, it is higher than the others, but ideally you want minimum of 3 hours between meals because there is a refractory period where additional protein doesn't stimulate further muscle protein synthesis. cheers!
@@dartfather I am sedentary and consume quite a high amount. I benefit greatly from it weight wise due to the satiating properties of protein as well as the thermogenic effect, plus I enjoy protein rich foods as well as shakes. I consume about 200-230g a day and I am 165 lbs. It is certainly way above the minimum intake, but is not so much that it would cause any ill effects.
can the body store excess amino acids in the liver, so that it gets used for muscles later in the day, if you've had all your daily protein in one sitting? I mean think about how our ancestors ate protein - they had to eat their kill in one sitting, which except for the best hunters and seasons, didn't happen every day. there were no refrigerators lol. There must be some mechanism for the body to store amino acids for at least 24 hours since most protein were eaten in one sitting.
Holy shit that was confusing to understand, had to focus to grasp the message of this one, really wish I knew you had a simplified summary at the end hahaha. I'm dumb.
@FranLesPaul keep protein above 1.5g per kg. If ur eating way above maintenance ur body isnt going to be going under much gluconeogenesis so u shouldnt worry to much
I generally aim for 300 calories surplus and 1.6g protein per kg. For me this is 120g protein and the surplus would be around 2400-2800. Right now I workout 6x a week.
My honest opinion. Daily protein is WAY more important. If you enjoy eating multiple times during the day fine do that as long as you. Enjoy it, be consistent and see month to month progress. Sometimes when reading studies I find some of the studies are so anal and small on the whole subject. Like calorie cycle, studies say you should eat same calories everyday to have a net energy balance but people still cycle calories and make a shit tone of progress. Casein vs whey is simple, casein if you are cutting and whey if you struggle to get in protein or like baking. I think it’s just common sense as well. Love your video Layne! Debunking bullshiters on the internet. People need the truth and not a magical solution.
Assuming the individual is healthy, has an average to high metabolism, with no underlying addictions that would compromise the functions of liver/kidneys or other organs of the body, in other words, optimal homeostasis of the body full time... protein synthesis for muscular development would be possible to maintain every 60-90 minutes with up to 25g of protein preferably in the form of casein/whey with a maximum of up to the individuals weight plus half in grams per pound.
What I don't understand, whatis considered as a "different meal"? What if I eat two meals with thirty minutes delay? Are these count as different meals? What if I eat a meal through out half or even 1 hour? Is that counts as one meal?
Great question. From what I have seen, there is no universally agreed to definition. However, many/most seem to suggest that a meal ends when there is no other food intake for about four hours, as reflected by the www.google.com/search?q=kraft+curve blood analyses. Regarding protein, you are really talking about the protein digestion cycle, which is complex. examine.com/guides/protein-intake/
How large a person you are and bone structure matters ! I’m a petit build and if I eat too much protein my blood sugar just spikes and I gain weight so I don’t need 25-50 g per meal it’s too much for me . I do much better with 15- 20 g and I’ve gained muscle without all the excess protein crap that’s pushed online ! And yes I had a dexa to prove it ! You don’t have to pound protein to get GAINZ !
Thanks Layne! What about digestion and muscle protein synthesis??? Consider two options. 1- 70g of protein from Whey Protein with water VS 2 - 70g of protein from meat with loads of fibre and some fat. The whey would hit your system straight away but the meal (protein equated) would take ages to digest and you would therefore be taking advantage of the protein more? Could you make a video explaining the science on this? thanks again.
If you take the shake with water (specially with just water) you won't elevate protein synthesis for more than 90 minutes (maybe 2 hours being lucky), so it's more convenient to have the meat with fiber and fat if you won't eat for 3-5 hours because, as you say, it will digest a lot slower thereby keeping the protein synthesis high. After training it would make sense to have that fast acting protein but in a lower amount, 70 grs won't be absorbed in a short time frame.
Sorry I still don't understand the difference between whole body protein balance and muscle protein synthesis ....if you could clarify that more would be appreciated
Almost all of the cellular machines in your body are the result of your DNA being transcribed to RNA that is a template for translation into amino acid chains that fold into functional proteins. Every living cell in your body is constantly turning over its protein machines (enzymes, receptors, signaling complexes, structural complexes, etc.). Your whole body needs protein synthesis to operate. If you are trying to maximize skeletal muscle anabolism, you are talking about protein synthesis in the target contractile muscle cells. Does that make sense?
@@mcfarvo That helps a little more. So what is the specific benefit of whole body protein? It just makes your body function better? Is there a more specific benefit we can pinpoint with whole body protein?
"Protein" floats around your body via the "Amino Acid Pool." Amino acids are like lego building blocks which get assembled into proteins and then into muscle tissue, and a whole lot more. Your body can't make (synthesize) muscle until and unless there are enough of the right shapes and colors of those amino acid lego building blocks. "Protein balance" means that you get enough of these "essential" amino acids from your food. This is why you will hear about "complete proteins" and "incomplete proteins." If you don't eat sufficient "essential" amino acids over time, you can die. (Last chance diet.)
I’ve tried both styles and prefer fewer meals with that protein source coming from chicken, fish, beef as opposed to more frequent meals with some of those meals consisting of whey protein and oats shakes
I think high protein meals work well, i eat only 3 meals with a lot of protein, being one really high, and I`ve been having great gains for the last 6 months I had this thought bugging me which is if it is possible to get resistant to anabolic signalling like through mTOR. Consistently eating muscle-full meals 4-5x+ a day for months and years maybe could cause some sort of diminishing returns Or am I just tripping
When you say "depending on the source", do mean you'd need fewer grams of a high quality source of protein to achieve optimum protein anabolism than a lower quality source?
I've watched your video about asking good questions, so I'll try to ask mine as good as I can: I'd like to know if there is any data on different impacts of getting the recomended amount of sleep all at once vs. sleeping a few hours during the night and a few hours in the afternoon. I'm mainly interested in the effects on over all physical and mental health, but I'm also curious about effects on weight loss (fat loss vs. lean body mass loss?) and recovery from working out. Also, is it possible to make up for a night when you haven't been able to sleep with a nap in the afternoon? Background: this is a discussion between my boyfriend and me. He prefers to stay up late, sleep a few hours, go to work and sleep in the afternoon. I prefer a full night of sleep because after a nap in the afternoon I usually need to figure out what century we currently have...
Excess protein can be stored as fat or burnt as fuel (largely dependent on calorie intake), or the kidneys can excrete protein in the urine (since excess protein can result in a mild metabolic acidosis)
@@bidnow2946 But it is a reversible process. Fasting, dieting and exercise will help in reversing stored fat. Btw, it is not only excess proteins which are converted to fat and stored. This happens also to excess carbs.
@@nilskp I don't know if that is a legitimate question, or if you are testing me. Storing excess protein as fat is via deanimation: www.nottingham.ac.uk/nursing/sonet/rlos/bioproc/liverphysiology/page_five.html If you want to get more technical, I like this series: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-F5G3siypLkA.html
feels like the bolus method would be inferior.. but I am basing this only on instinct, and my own experience, since when I eat a lot of protein in 1 sitting, my body tends to have more loss than when I eat it in smaller installements.. By loss I mean ammonia production and uric acid..
I´m confused because Jorn Trommelen gave me the following answer to my question. My question was: Ok but in general, what does the science show, regardless how much someone weighs, how much protein per meal is necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis? Or is there no scientific research about this? Thank you very much for your time His answer: 20 g per meal. Going higher than that will a small added effect Now you say 30-50g of protein!?!? What the hell is going on here? Are 20g enough to stimulate muscle protein synthesis or not? Thanks!
If you're constantly eating high protein meals throughout the day does spacing of protein really make a difference? Does your body digest all 30-50g at once or would some of it not be digested going into next meal and then add to that total? I overthink and this is driving me crazy 😅 would you still spike muscle protein synthesis on every meal or is it constantly "spiked"?
A few years ago, Layne did a video where he said total daily protein consumption (minimum of 1.8 g/kg of lean body mass) should increase 1.5% per year after age 30. I'm gonna assume that applies to the per meal calculation?
@@DarkoFitCoach If you don't increase the number of meals per day by 1.5% each year, that means you have to increase the average amount of protein per meal by 1.5% per year. You do understand basic math yes? lol
Take away-eat 3 meals a day with high quality protein then in between meals have 2 protein shakes 2 whey then one plant protein before bed! Interchange, bedtime proteins shake👍🥊💥
Hi Layne, Awesome video! Great to learn about that as I've heard many myths about protein consumption in the past, especially in one go. Big thank you for making the video. Cheers, Billy
The problem with videos like this is, there so many different people who come out with a study,that says you can only digest 40 grams of protein per meal, and then other video say you can know that's not true you can do up to a 100 grams per meal.so I mean who knows what the real answer is.
So I should stop my 60g protein meals? It's hard to IF and hit 200g protien within 4 to 8 hours. Mayne I'll go down to 50g per meal. Thanks for all the great info!
What you say is partially correct. According to you net mps=amount of lean muscle tissue made - amount of lean muscle tissue lost. Ok so now see my reasoning. You said either increase muscle building or decrease muscle brekdown but you said they may or may not be done at the same time. But I say that it has to done in same time. Let's say you use some myostatin inhibitor to decrease muscle breakdown but still you need adequate amount of protein to build muscle. Why? Because the net +ve nitrogen balance is directly proportional to mps. Yes I agree that the range set for max anabolism is 30-50g per meal but layne when see the grapical interpretation of data after 50g there is slight extra benefit that doesn't mean there is no benefit. (The slope of that graph is less but positive). And I have a rant against you natty guys. The infamous study from 1996 that you refer where steroids without lifting weight(or giving resistance training stimulus) gains muscle see that their also protein was given to each participant at 1g/lb of body weight. But according to you only drugs can build muscle.( And let me tell you there it was only test enenthate). 😂😆🤣. What do you think layne.
Protein does a lot more for the human body than stimulate protein synthesis. If all I cared about was MPS I could eat 4 meals a day @ 25g of high quality leucine rich protein source... but then i would probably only be consuming 150g of protein (including trace proteins) for a 200lb male. I think it's a narrow way to look at it.
Hey Layne. Would really love to hear your thoughts on protein absorption. I really don't have time on the want to eat 5 chicken or beef meals a day. When i would drink something like a FairLife 30gr protein shake, my friends would get on to me and tell me I was wasting my time drinking them. I was only getting like 15gr of protein from it. Is this true? Thanks
In skeletal muscle, yes, anyway he meant +10g of aminos in skeletal muscle net balance, on complete newbies. If you count the 1% turnover, it could be like, 100g breakdown and 110g synthesis, depending on the individual of course.
I'd like to know how much time has to pass to be considered another meal. 2 hours 4 hours? I have to imagine what you're eating plays a fairly large roll which might be why no one broaches the subject that I've seen.
Thats my biggest question as well. I see this topic covered quite a bit, and have never really heard what the "window" is between meals in a study like this. I could go find the study I guess, but I'm just a simpleton that relies on Layne for all the answers.
@@big_chungus73 honestly it's a wise man who is smart enough to purposely seek knowledge from an expert. However when I've asked around other sources I consider worth listening to the responses was around 3.5 hours it's good enough until further information is presented I'm going with that but I still hope for a deeper understanding on the topic. I do suspect that it's too dependent on what you've eaten to make a very specific video on. Like whey protein is "quick absorbing" while casin (probably spelled incorrectly) protein is slow absorbing. Probably next to impossible to make a good video when the viewer may eat a water melon or a steak. However a video on the topic would still be interesting.
Could you make another video about the type of protein and how much you can consume it in a meal. Like how much of a slow digesting protein maximizes mps vs fast digesting
If you are fat, eat fewer meals with no snacks. If you are a lean athlete lifting weights, eat more often with enough or the right kind of protein. The key for building muscles is that you seem to need perhaps 3 grams of the amino acid leucine at each feeding to stimulate muscle growth. www.livestrong.com/article/346375-a-list-of-leucine-rich-foods/
Layne is a scientist. His words are absolutely golden. However, I can't help but think that a lot of what he says is too dense for the common lifter. I personally find that it takes a lot of further reading to really understand what he is saying. I know there is no way around it, but I just wish there was another way to benefit the masses from a real scientific-based approach rather than leave them to get their knowledge from ignorant influencers in the industry. Much respect, @biolayne
Imagine if predator animals would hunt down their pray and eat just 25-50g of protein and leave. Some people are bored and don’t know what to talk about. Feelspandemicman
Hay ime trying to health bulk but I have Carey little time I can spend at home cooking duse eney one know of a good meal prep delivery company that isn't a rip off
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="289">4:49</a> It is greatly misleading to speak about "muscle" protein breakdown because non-lean people breakdown mostly connective tissue. (scars, skin,tumors etc.) That's why this is also problematic <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="99">1:39</a>.
@@InsaneFame hahaha ur a nut, i just meant if u had a question that hes made multiple videos on wjy would he waste time replyin to u about it. Basically intermittent fasting sucks, its not beneficial and potentially even negatively effective.
