How much RAM will you need in 5 years? 

"Unused RAM is wasted RAM!"

😂😢

Electron

@@Demopans5990 Yea that's what he said "ads, telemetry, and surveillance" also known as electron. lol

ever wonder where all that extra super speed and bandwidth went when 5G rolled around to no difference o.0

For some recent games, even having the latest hardware is not enough to compensate for the developer's lack of optimisation

​@@mathmagician8191 Kof Kof *elden ring* kof kof

so our new generation developers are incompetent and inefficient?

​@@serversC13nc3 No, the problem is cost. It cost too much to change it. Cheaper to have the end user upgrade.

Well, yes Java developers are.

🤮

That's why every idiot saying "Unused RAM is wasted RAM", and "What's the harm in another game launcher ransoming us" are just useful idiots.

There are some computers still using yum. 😏

@@JohnCrawford1979 still waiting for the libdnf rewrite huh?

@@bruwyvn - No one's gonna yank my yogurt. 😏

Nvme + 32gb ram = VS IS FAST

@@alexeysamokhin9629 even this is a stretch in my experience. I just tried Visual Studio on my 64GB ram machine, all top hardware and it still took a solid 20 seconds just to launch the program, forget about opening a project. Also it spat out some weird errors and crashed when I tried to just open a json file. vscode and vim had no such issues (LOL)

Yes. And now think about all the features you would miss. If we would develop with an old VS Version from 2005 or older. No thanks. And i dont think anybody really remembers how big the difference is now.

@@moritzbecker131 such as...

@@moritzbecker131 Name 5 things you use in 2022 that weren't present in 2005.

And getting closer to being the new kilobyte. 😏

8 bit to 64 but addressing. Expotential address space = exponentially more addressable ram

@@Pressbutan - and they're already talking about 128 bit when we haven't even come close to reaching the limits of 64 bit.

@@JohnCrawford1979 So you're saying N64 was so far ahead into the future we just couldn't see it?

@@balsalmalberto8086 - Yes it was. No one had the processing powers, etc. in the mid 90's to do all the texturing needed to make realistic graphics. Part of the reason after the N64, Nintendo used 32-bit cpus. Even with reaching the 4 Gb RAM threshold where 64-bit would make a difference, 32-bit was hardly to the limits of its capabilities, and many 32-bit programs would still be adequate today if not for the push of planned obsolescence that demands everything be 64-bit, at least until they're ready to force everything to be 128-bit, possibly in 10 years, maybe even less, despite scratching the surface of 64-bit.

Five years later, 2TB Clippy, no difference just hungrier.

One day aliens will visit our planet completely depleted of energy and resources, use advanced technology to find out what went wrong it turned out to be chatbots and electron apps

@@s1nistr433 That's one way AI will use Humans against each other; transitioned from Humans using AI to use Humans against each other.

Yeah, the jump from 128K ram to 4 MB looks tiny, but it’s actually a 3100% increase I think? No different than going from 128mb to 4 gigs.

Yes this. The increase doesnt ramp up. It slows down.

"1.2gb for taking notes" Lol. If just need to take notes then use notepad? That app way more complex than "just taking notes". I guess thats basically a webview ( a webbrowser) with incredible amount of features and formatting and everything..

@@jungervin8765 nor really a very good argument since there are other apps with similar features that require much less ram, like Trilium, which uses 200mb.

fax

I miss flash

Yeah they really need to suck_less

very valid

I blame them every time I open youtube. It is the epitome of JS hell. I can wait 2 secs to fetch some data.

Yep. Crappy developers don't know how to write clean, efficient code.

@@rhone733 It's not the developers fault to be honest, its all the ecosystem... This means, mostly companies, which are the ones that end up pushing technologies. But this includes Hardware manufacturers, Operating Systems, Programming Languages and everything that gets build up on top of this.

I definitely get a feeling that a lot of programming has no engineering mindset. Code is simply a tool to reach a goal, not an ends to a mean. Really the last place where performance truly exists as a culture is embedded systems, and even that is being invaded by the per kloc programmer who writes their AbstractBuilderFactory classes.

@@monkev1199 Thankfully there's *some* kind of awareness about these issues, and that's why I'm interested in the subject. I started my programming journey formally around 2014, with some bumps on the road and the pandemic but I never stopped learning and doing my own stuff (mostly through a overscoped game development project so I don't have much to show for it hah) I had been aware of the issue for some time and recently I got interested in actually going lower level, but I'm not sure where should I put my efforts into. This year I toyed a bit with Rust but recently I've been considering C, Zig, and C++. On the other side I've been learning about Cyber Security too.

​@@monkev1199 Damn, youtube disappeared my comment. I said something along the lines of: Thankfully there's *some* awareness of the issue. I started my formal coding journey around 2014 and some stuff happened. I first saw J.B. talking about this a few years ago and I recently decided to try and go lower level. I did played and contributed to OSS with some Rust this year for about a month. And I'm currently looking where to put my efforts in, I'm considering C, Zig, C++. And also learning about CyberSecurity.

Exactly the issue. It's not the availability that's the issue. I'm HAPPY that I can easily build a machine with 64GB of RAM. That's great. What I'm not happy about is, as you said, something like dropbox using almost a gig of ram to do... nothing. Software is getting heavier and heavier, but adding nothing of value in the way of features. It's insanity.

bingo

I bet you watched it in 144p after first downloading it to a hard drive without anything else running in the background

And it sells computers to normies who would ask too many questions if their new system has the same oversized amount of RAM as their system from 5 years ago. But yes.

The problem is, that same methodology applies to the operating system itself! When you ultimately think about it, what can, for example, a modern word processor do that a word processor from 25 years ago can not do? But the ram requirements have gotten nuts.

@@slaapliedje In the case of modern MS Word, quite a lot. But MS Word is overkill for 95% of people.

True. Witnessed Teams eat 9GB of ram once.

Web technologies are the worst offenders, but don't fool yourself, everything is in a sorry state... That's why Electron ends up getting used in the first place. Cross platform development comes with such a heavy baggage that software ends up being developed web first and WE SHOULD THINK WHY. Everything is so complex when it doesn't need to be. Software needs to change, it's not acceptable that in 2024 you can't even put a pixel on a screen on multiple platforms without going through unneeded layers of complexity. Just because of Apple, if you want to support Mac you need to use MoltenVK instead of Vulkan even if you're able to work with VK. Up until Vulkan 1.2 (2020) you couldn't use the same shader language for desktop platforms. This doesn't happen only with graphics sadly...

​@@xDJKeroxFlutter is brilliant for modern dev using sane amounts of system resources. I hope the other OS vendors contribute to optimizing the experience like Canonical has done.

We had a 3dsmax plugin with 4kb ON DISK size written in C++, it got an electron "app" that is one of its screens, because it was "faster this way to do". They wanted to add a completely different electron app for a different screen because.... compatibility.... imagine that: just a plugin for an already huge program had full fledged two browsers for two of its gui windows... Thank God I could unify at least the two so there is only one... Still with that the plugin became like 200 megs up from 4kb and with nearly same functionality.

@@hashtag9990 No, electron in and on itseld is already a "fából vaskarika" bad idea in itself - and why the web is like it is now is exactly a series of similar decisions to be honest.

yeah win 95/98 ran at like 4mb smoothly iirc (been awhile since i touched a win98 pc). Hell i think the first pc i got after i moved to japan, a Dell running XP was only like 1gb of ram

9x needed 8mb to really be usable. 4mb was the listed minimum but even MS internally admitted that was borderline.

Nah I ran Win 3.1 on a 386SX with 8MB of RAM and it made a huge difference going to 16MB. Similar to going from 8GB to 16GB today.

I specifically remember purchasing a new 386 PC a few months prior to the release of Windows 3.0. 1 MB of memory was sufficient to run the upcoming Windows 3.0, but I splurged and upgraded to 2 MB.

@@pilotamurorei no way... for 9x you needed 8mb

Most people do more things than just writing text. Did you watch the video? I'd like to see a computer with 128 kb of ram run a youtube video at 1080p.

@@MegaLokopo Yes, I watched the whole video and only referred to the text section. But yes, you can do it with a trick via Raspi hardware, that you build a module for a C64 that even conjures up such a RU-vid video on your CRT. And we all know that the resolution is not everything, especially with an analog device like an old CRT that I have here just like my C64s. So technically you can do it with old hardware and a module. And the whole thing is omly 64kb for display this, postprocessing with the a little help of a cheap Raspi.

George R. R. Martin still uses WordStar 4.0 for MS-DOS.

You are cherry-picking contexts. Of course you can write text with an old machine, and you need heavy power for high-res video. But the point you are deliberately dodging was the problem with in-between. You cannot get modern daily tasks done with mere old word processor, but you shouldn't need high-res-video hardware for any of them. For example, reading news and weather forecasts, booking train tickets, doing online shopping, and basically *all* other basic daily tasks, none of them is functionally any more demanding than they were in 90s, yet due to unprofessional implementation, they *all* are now requiring GHz processor and GB of RAM, which they shouldn't need. Actually, text processing is a prime example - nowadays all text files you get from "out of your house" - despite being pure text - are in docx format, which needs a modern word processor, which tends to be unnecessarily bloated. Sure there are "niche ways" to do some of these, but they are too difficult for those most fond keeping old systems in use, and fundamentally no today's bloat should be tolerated on modern hardware either - new hardware is bought explicitly to run heavy payloads, not the useless overhead code which represents majority of the resource usage with today's bloatware on these functionally simple basic tasks (and often even on more advanced, resource-intensive uses), and this should be explicitly a concern for those who buy modern high-performance hardware, as it causes a lion's portion of the bought resources to be bought in vain. Imagine having a passenger car with body weighing a thousand metric tonnes. You wouldn't tolerate it no matter how cheap, powerful, and efficient semi-tractor engine you could have on it. And especially not if you want a high-performance one. Instead, the more advancement we have with car engines, and especially the more performant one you want, the lighter weight have also the car bodies been designed and wanted. The same should be the case with computers and software.

No matter how cheap the steel and semi-tractor engines are, I definitely wouldn't want my passenger car body to weigh a thousand metric tonnes. Any apologism for such is nothing but foolish. It's not revolutionary, it's disrevolutionary.

"""idle"""

is that really so? good heavens. i know windows 10 uses 2gb, which is already horrendous. though i'm sure it also depends on how much ram is in your system

@@shallex5744 If you run Linux with KDE and uninstall PIM nonsense, it needs like 1.6GB idle. 2GB are barely enough to run even openbox once you launch either firefox or chrome based browser.

@@pluffcrock3438 it’s busy sending telemetry data needs a lot of ram for that

@@shallex5744 2? my windows 10 sits comfortably at 4.5GB when it's doing nothing...

Log scales are for quitters who can't find enough paper to make their point PROPERLY.

Yes. This. All of it.

Yeah I can't complain that RAM is cheap enough to have a hard drive from 10 years ago worth of it hanging off your CPU. I bought 64GB of DDR4-ECC for less than $80 the other day.

I installed 64GB of RAM in my friend's laptop for him and it blew his mind. He didn't expect it to do anything, but never needing to hit the pagefile and Windows just caching everything really keeps the system responsive. RAM is so cheap now that it's incredible, I remember paying around $100 for 8GB of DDR3 back in the day. These days you can get 32GB of DDR5 for $100, sometimes less, and that's even with the massive amount of inflation we've had since the 2000s.

if you have to use a desktop like a mainframe that only says how bad are operating systems failing at their task

@@luizmonad777 Why shouldn't you use a desktop like a mainframe? RAM and CPU cores are both incredibly cheap now compared to 10-15 years ago. Running multiple virtual machines and having 200 tabs open is nothing when you can get 64GB of RAM for under $200 and Intel is selling 14 core CPUs for under $300.

We should be pushing towards better cross-platform development. It is so sad that the ecosystem is so f'd up that someone ended up "solving the issue" in this way. Web technology is horrendous to me, I've been praying for WASM to take over the web but it honestly talks about the failure of the ecosystem when it ended up being like this.

@@xDJKerox Web tech is amazing, it is just a skill issue. I am using a 6 years old, slow (max 2ghz core clock), 8gb ram notebook, never had problem with complex web apps or electron apps.

@@jungervin8765 Please don't shill HTML and JavaScript for the love of god...

Yeah using Electron to be cross platform is like shipping a Windows VM with your software claiming to be cross platform. Actually, I know some linux software that did that with a Linux VM. Your software is not cross platform if the platform is runs on is as big as an operating system.

@@username7763 Stop it. You all have no clue about tech. Please stop.

Back then, Javascript interpreters were way slower and less efficient than they are now. So it is telling that we've gone way past the performance improvements we made to be so much worse.

Ah, well then you should learn about microservices. You take your application, and split it into multiple web servers that talk to each other. That way a simple function call will take way longer. Then you add security and resiliency to that. You'll find you need a bunch of different computers to run it on because it takes up too many resources running on one. After running on a cluster, you'll find you need a larger cluster because the overhead of the communication is taking up too many resources. You'll need lots of retry logic and extra complexity to ensure the system doesn't go down now that you've multiplied the ways things can break. Now, your software sorta runs ok but is so complicated no one know if it really is or not. But that's ok because you use continuous integration to push out code before it is ready.

@@username7763 That's a great point. We definitely need to harness this slowness and inefficiency on the desktop. I wonder how long it will take the node.js folks to reinvent COM, except 1000x slower and hungrier for resources.

Windows is pretty bloated now to and their gonna bloat it some more with AI that spies on you.

better get board with 256Gb support of DDR4 (it's twice cheaper than new DDR5) my 128Gb is barely enough now, new merged mixed 100+ billions models using 120Gb+ Ram

That's kind of the point. You need system resources for the convenience of devs who don't care about efficiency and for the benefit of companies that want to abuse those resources, not your actual necessity.

I would agree with you but why does everything need to be so bloated. Games are different in a sense they need to load visual assests and use a lot of memory. We can't just let these companies run with everything. They already collect a lot of our data. Things can be done differently and should be. Privacy and careful development of AI should be a priority.

Well, I completed Witcher 3 just fine back in 2015 on i5-3330, r9 270 with only *4Gb of RAM* (Win 7) and that was more than enough back in the day for any gaming machine. Nothing was freezing or lagging, smooth 45-50fps on high-med at 1080p. There's always gonna be 'that one game/app' that for no reason raises the bar for system requirements so I rarely ever bothered upgrading above the required minimum since you can't really even 'catch up' for too long. Installed 24Gb on my main machine, 20GB on a laptop - won't upgrade in at least 4-5 years.

16 gig has NOT been the minimum spec for ten years dude. That is nuts. 16 gb is still plenty if not overkill for most people today.

@@Ben333bacc Notice how I added the qualifier "as a gamer". Yeah grandma checking her email doesn't even need a computer at this point, she needs an iPad lol

@@justinJ689 No company is going to release software that cant run on the majority of computers, unless it's so advanced that they quite literally just cant get it running. If hardware slows down maybe then they'll take the time to really dig into optimization to squeeze out that last ~20% or whatever, but until then it's not worth the dev time.

I think Amiga was used for camera control and quick preview of recorded shots. There is a youtube video about restored Amiga from production set.

because i have 64 gigs of ram i have accidentally allowed distros im installing to automatically make 64 gig swaps.

Noswap masterrace right here.

It would only make sense if you hibernate

look into zram swap, by which you store compressed swap pages in ram, compressed at approximately a 4:1 efficiency ratio. it's like downloading more ram, but real. assuming a 4:1 compression ratio, if you had, say 8 GB of ram, you could dedicate 4 GB of it to zram-based swap, which would give you 4 GB of regular memory, and effectively 16 GB of swap, giving you an effective 20 gb of ram with only 8 GB of actual ram. but unlike a partition, this swap space is only filled as it's needed, so until you start swapping, you'll have access to 8 GB of ram like normal, only using up swap ram as it gets filled

It's cute of you to assume swap under windows works like the old ways and doesn't already demand a coefficient based on the installed memory just to duplicate everything to disk. Try setting up some windows vms with small emulated disks, and try to daily drive them without issues, ill wait. youre lucky if those devenv vm images work

Log scales are for quitters who can't find enough paper to make their point PROPERLY.

@@rodrigogirao8344 :)

Why people so dumb? My work machine have 8 GB RAM. it is totally fine..I used win 10 with 4 GB ram at work! 4 GB! Even with that works kinda well with an SSD.

@@jungervin8765 yeah maybe your machine is not bloated with both most of the windows bloatware and corporate bloatware.

That RAM sounds like the GOAT, yo.

Justine have that much on her Mac i think

1.5 Tb and it was 4 years ago

Nah, memory isn't really scaling on process nodes like it used too.

@@crazybeatrice4555 cool

That, and lazy programmers

i saw Mental Outlaw on youtube make his gentoo system with dwm use about 50 mb if i remember correctly

Finally, AI will be the excuse needed for younger gamers to get their hands on high end hardware. These kids will be playing high end games on their family computer

there's nothing wrong with getting more RAM to do tasks that inherently, at their most primitive function, require, or can take advantage of that much ram to do their bidding. same with CPU speed. think of something like encoding a video, that's a task that more or less, has already been broken down to its most efficient primitive computations, and, more or less, the only thing we can do to make that task faster or more efficient, is by upgrading your CPU speed/RAM count. so for those kinds of tasks, it is appropriate to upgrade your hardware if those tasks are important to you. there are certain things , certain types of computations and tasks that simply cannot be done without certain levels of CPU speed or memory, at least not in a timely fashion. an inappropriate case of needing to upgrade hardware, however, would be when software becomes so inefficient or bloated that it takes vastly more CPU cycles or memory to achieve basically the same type of computation or end result as you used to be able to achieve with much less resources on more efficient software

Well, they gotta have 240 fps to be competitive.

@@brianmiller1077 I'd rather have 1080px at 30Hz than 480px at 144Hz, but I'd rather have 720px at 60Hz than either. No game ever needs more than 60 fps.

@@kpcraftster6580 The faster the frequency the more pleasant and calm it is to look at, that is why 100+ is much much better than 60, and why it is soooo comfortable to use an e-book reader. In the e-book readers case, there is not a frequency, the image is completely still! So no game needs it, but your eyes and mind need it more than the games.

@@viciouswaffle I realize that I am likely the exception to the rule, but 144 and 240 give me migraines and nausea, while I can look at 60 or even 30 for hours on end without any discomfort.

​@@kpcraftster6580 That is definitely odd. I can't bear to look at anything below about 100FPS without noticing stutter. Not so bad when watching TV, but still noticeable. It's a lot worse when gaming due to the interactive element.

You clearly meant MB, not GB.

But that's the thing, did it make you stop? Did you decide to run a different browser or visit different sites? Unless it causes people to change behavior, performance will be prioritized below everything else.

@@username7763 Well, yes. It did make me stop. As for Windows becoming a totalitarian pain in the xxx OS, I created a Debian spin called Kumander Linux. I am only using that for over 2 years now. And as for Firefox being such a memory hog, I am in the process of finding a better alternative. Might give Opera a go, heard good things about it.

Clarification. I configure Opera not to "snooze" tabs, which I think would relieve RAM if you're not using those tabs, but then I also tell it not to automatically load ALL tabs when you launch the browser. It waits for me to click a tab to load it. That's because I'm on a terribly low-bandwidth connection I suggest should be illegal (_Laugh out loud_) in this era of 1080p+, 1080p60fps, live streaming, and high resolution panels.

...Improve the user experience?