I was triggered by Bev. I was raised a Fundamentalist, and was afraid all the time. I was terrified that I would displease God & end up in Hell. I later converted to Catholocism for over a decade, until I began deconstructing my faith. I didn't become an atheist until I was 60. Decades of Christianity have left marks on my psyche. It's been six years since I left theism. Starting my 7th year as an atheist, I feel more at peace, & stronger in my life. Therapy has helped me do a lot of healing.
I fully get this, bev scenes almost never failed to stir a feeling of rage, as she reminded me of the things I was brought up around. And spoke in ways I'd been spoken too for leaving the church.
Catholicism nor fundamentalism are Christian although they proclaim themselves to be. Let us remember that Christ was NOT a christian, Christ was Christ…christianity was built and organized around Christs teachings
@@Williamb612 Tell that to the myriads of other self-identified Christians. They especially don't like being subjected to the no true Scotsman fallacy. By about a year and a half after ditching my theism, having watched a number of Christian on Christian debates, I came to believe there isn't *a* Christianity. Just as Jews & Muslims are divided over the core tenets of their respective religions, so too, are Christians divided. I don't believe anyone follows the Jesus in the New Testament stories. There isn't one Christ. He's been picked apart & divided by 2 billion adherents of hundreds upon hundreds of "denominations". (sects, if you prefer) It's all fake & it's all a bad joke.
Honestly I really like how for once they actually showed how a vampire would realistically infiltrate society. Not using some new evil cult or creating their own new kingdom, but manipulating the religions of man by using their ignorance to become an angel.
The vampire did not seem to not have any real motivation to me. It's as otherworldly as an angel would be, but that may be because it's presumably been trapped in an underground ruin for what could have been a thousand or more years. It's alien to modern society, I don't think it understands English, possibly it can't speak at all and we never witness it do so. For the most part I don't think it understands what is going on around it, especially in a religious context. It follows Monseigneur Pruitt because of their link, and Pruitt assumes it has a plan. It shows up randomly, and other than being instructed to wear clothing on a couple of occasions acts animalistically/moistly on impulse. Pruitt is unwittingly attributing what is happening to the angel's plan, while simultaneously creating said plan without any real guidance. From the perspective that the angel represents radicalization, it has no real motivation of its own, it can only be used as a tool for others, whether they start out with malicious intensions or not. It's simply another idea that can be either accepted or rejected by humans.
@@bleepbloop101010101I don't agree at all. The Vampire absolutely understood what was going on and was consciously pretending to be a religious figure. It has animalistic tendencies, but make no mistake, it is absolutely an intelligent enough being to understand some level of human social structure. If it had no intelligence, it would just go on a murder spree, yet it instead actively worked with the priest and supplied him with blood so that the island could all become Vampires, leave to the mainland, and then infect or feed on the world.
This show was phenomenal. I love how they never call the monster what we the audience know that it is. Throughout the show, we only hear it referred to as an angel, because the people don't have the language to voice and understand the true identity of the creature. That's how religion works. It forces a framework of interpretation that limits the way people view the world. You prayed for your friend's cancer and they recovered? You assume it was prayer, even though it was obviously the medication. Same with this. You believe in angels and encounter a vampire? You think it's an angel because you believe in them but don't believe in vampires.
the mind as a neural betwork has to work new memories and understanding onto the framework that already exists so your understanding of what you observe is built out of the shapes your brain already understands how to use. learning is just updating the framework iteratively as you go. unfortunately self awareness is the concious process of assesing your decision making with comparison to your personal levels of chronothesia so the only way completey avoid this limitation would be to have an exhaustive knowledge of every possibility in physics. good luck with that. although on the bright side it means free will is properly a thing as its an inevitable side effect of interpretive sensory negative cybernetic feedback loops. so in theory everyone can be deprogrammed and "saved". neuroplasticity willing. tldr, what seth said.
I had a slightly different interpretation...in that they may indeed believe in vampires, but switching to THAT belief would clearly put them on the wrong side of that equation. So they believe the comforting belief instead to avoid the mental cost of realizing they have made a terrible, ongoing mistake. (Similarly to how claims of alien abductions get immediately reinterpreted as demons to fool mankind, etc. I can't help but think the God believers suspect the alien claims are true, and have to cut off that possibility at the pass by grandfathering in that possible "reality" into their own. If aliens turn out to be real...well then, they are clearly demons. Not that I believe alien abduction, but I think it is clear God believers of certain flavors find it very easy to also believe aliens are real--and can't square that circle.)
@@greyeyed123 that makes sense too. It's probably a combination of both. I knew quite a few people who legitimately believed in aliens-and that aliens were actually demons that were pretending to be aliens to trick the world so they'd be less likely to believe in Jesus. 😂
One of the most disturbing aspects of Bev, was just how quickly she could produce a Bible verse that seemed to completely justify her view, even if her view just did a 180 from the minute before. You can see it in her face, a brief moment of confusion/terror, then the mind scanning through verses until one pops up, and then she can move forward. That just showed me two things. 1) A great acting job by Samantha Sloyan and 2) The Bible is just vague enough that one is able to justify almost anything using it. That's become even more problematic now with the shift from the primarily literal interpretations of scripture to the muddied mix of literal and allegorical/figurative meanings.
My favorite is when they proclaim a literal reading but speak of allegory depending on the verse It's all literal, except for the bits that make me look like a bad person.
She took every verse out of context though. The way she uses the bible can never produce a coherent theology. She just needs a quick verse that sounds like it justifies her behaviour, doesn't matter if the bible could realistically be interpreted that way.
I've fallen out of practice with it, but when I was younger, I had read through the Bible about five times or so and could also quote scripture at will. It was very curious to see how I could also cherry-pick verses to prove or counter points. This was especially fun when any neighboring Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses came to visit quoting scripture to prove their point of view.
@@Anonymous-sb9rr That's....exactly the way the real world uses it. The way ANYONE uses the Bible could never produce a coherent theology, because it's incoherent.
@@hannibalbarca1147 Explain the Catholic Church, then. Catholicism has a very clear theology. We even have a book that explains our entire theology called the "catechism of the Catholic church". Every verse in the entire Bible has been explained in detail at some point or another by Catholic theologians or scholars in the past 2000 years. There is not a single thing in the Bible that the Catholic church does not have an answer to. Go read the catechism for yourself if you want an idea of what a coherent theology looks like.
“It isn’t divinity that drives his self-sacrifice. It’s his hard earned understanding of the guilty mistakes he cannot change, the courage to scrutinise and change the things he can, and the critical thought to know the difference.” Love Drew’s play on the serenity prayer.
Know 'Belief It Or Not'? He's a very good Atheist-RU-vidr. And Viced Rhino? He's more 'direct' but i never saw that as 'Unpoliteness' and instead as a strong Drive to find the real Truth.
@@the_algorithm 😆 What I'm really getting at with my name is that RU-vid hides behind the excuse of their algorithm. They know precisely how their algorithm works, and it's no longer based entirely on view counts, trends, or a person's interests. Ever since Google bought RU-vid, RU-vid curates content and pushes certain channels and narratives. It's mostly pro corporate and pro stock market. And they have a cover. They don't entirely cap leftist voices or messages; they simply let the ratio overwhelm independent leftist channels. They make sure 100 views of corporate media and/or right wing media is consumed for every 1 truly authentic leftist point of view is consumed. They're capitalist, imperial frauds. They don't want their financial racket to ever go away. Manufacturing false consciousness is what their business model is.
Bev is the most dangerous and most exasperating type of villain possible: a villain who doesn't realise they're one, so there's nothing they won't do in their self-righteousness, even the most heinous act. And they add insult to injury because they honestly expect their victims to be grateful for it. Another example is what's her name, the pink lady from Harry Potter. Great video and great series (and I love the character of Hassan!)
I mean real people very rarely believe they're evil and relish in that fact. Most people justify their actions in a way where they're believe their not morally responsible.
In countless horror movies and shows the skeptic is sometimes the asshole but always inevitably proven foolish and wrong. Which is why Midnight Mass was such a breath of fresh air!
Now I want a horror movie where at the halfway point the skeptic is proven right about there being no monsters and the second half of the movie is just the characters going back in the cabin and partying.
@@breakfaith3031actually, that turned into a party movie would be solid. And if you still want a horror movie, have someone die of alcohol poisoning and do a character study of them making the right choices and calling the cops and dealing with the aftermath. Could be really good but people would Have a hard time With it
The Angel wasn't malevolent or evil, according to what I understood from this video, it simply acted to its nature; it is monstrous to us because we are human and its prey. Bev, on the other hand,
While the creature doesn't seem capable in most of the scenes we witness, Pruitt claims to be in communication with it. It wears clothes, and conspires with Pruitt to convert the town's entire population by rarely feeding on anything besides pests and other stray animals. Therefore it intellectually exploits his faith, and doesn't act solely with the purpose or modus operandi of a wild animal.
@@futurestoryteller that's why the last episode kinda felt like deus ex machina for me... he was supposed to be inteligent and the mastermind behind it, manipulating even the priest, but in the end, he started acting purely on his animal instincts, they pour gas on him and he continues to feed, they slash his wings but he continues to feed... how could he control himself for months but when it was the matter of his life and death he ignored danger and just fed, and fed randomly, not even trying to kill specifically the people that fought against him
@@MrRys I think it's fine, the bloodlust is pretty insatiable, based on the way most of the human converts (and we have no reason to believe the creature was not once human) behave, it's impressive that the creature "holds out" for so long, as it were. As a matter of fact it seems to kill all the stray cats in a single night, so it's one of the earliest indicators we get of how intense the desire to feed is.
As an ex-Catholic, this show creeped me out so much because I could see something like this actually happening. Hit way too close to home. So excited for this video!
The CC has a long history of things like this happening. Check out the story of the monk Savonarola in Renaissance Florence. He was a contemporary of Michelangelo, Da Vinci, etc. Also check out the history of the Munster Rebellion.
I loved this deconstruction. One of my favorite things about Midnight Mass was that it showed the religious people as human and relatable. Before my deconversion, I was annoyed by tropey, "creepy cult" horror that depicted the religious as cartoon villains. I waited way too long to watch it because of that, even when friends who know me well recommended it. Midnight Mass doesn't give that easy out. Every one of those people is real to me. Bev Keane is basically my cousin.
You know a show is doing its characters right when a dogmatic ideologue is far more of an antagonist than literal inhuman monsters. Mike Flanagan knocked this show out of the park.
Yup, exactly this. I felt as if this was perhaps the first religious horror show/movie that showed respect towards both the faith and the characters, such as the haunting beauty of them walking and singing together to the last mass of their life.
I kept telling my wife as we watched: this is beautiful, they're telling us that theists can be good or bad and that atheists are capable of being the best of us. She thought it was just a vampire show 🤷
You should seriously consider asking your wife why she thinks writers - especially the ones who write long monologues - obsess and toil over words for years on end but "obviously" have nothing to say. Honestly I find it pretty insulting the entitlement people have to reduce your deepest contemplations to nothing more meaningful than a bear on a unicycle
@@futurestoryteller because not all people have the same worldview and advanced thinking as writers. I guess Stephen Hawking could have gone on a tear that 96% of the world’s population doesn’t understand his theories or painstaking work, but he was smarter than that
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim Nobody said they were all Stephen Hawking though, just that they tend to have things to say. Do you normally open your mouth with a mind towards being as vapid as possible? That's the way to think about it, even if you're not a writer
One thing that's interesting about Midnight Mass is how many Christians loved this series too. I first heard about it from a seminary student who drew the same connections you did about faith, community, and extremism. There is a growing number of Christians who are pushing back against extremism and fundamentalism, but we face greater resistance and vilification from Christian Nationalists and fundamentalists. It's a tough place to be in, especially when it's your own community and family, and I appreciated the care that Flanagan took when approaching the subject.
"It's not about whether you hold to a particular religion, the danger comes from allowing blind faith to lead you into harmful situations in an attempt to escape psychological discomfort." This one hit hard. And can go in so many ways. Thanks Vi. I'm not a religious man, but I do find value in deep introspection and pondering on profound messages, like this very quote. Some call it "meditation". And if so, I'll be meditating on this quote. Seems helpful in many different situations regarding belief in general, not just religions.
All unfalsifiable beliefs are unhealthy and can turn into a dangerous addiction that can harm the community. Someone who believes in some unproven utopia that is only one war away from being created or that they're pseudo-science means they don't have to take any steps to keep their community safe from a virus is a threat to those around them. Rationality makes one healthier and less likely to harm those around them.
@@miskatonic_alumni "It's not about whether you hold to a particular religion (ideology), the danger comes from allowing blind faith to lead you into harmful situations in an attempt to escape psychological discomfort." This is said with a They/Them who will have you locked in a cage/imprisoned if you don't use their prefered pronouns, in an attempt to escape psychological discomfort, the irony is delicious.
16:17 "We don't know if the angel managed to find shelter before the sun came up in the series finale." Leeza's closing line that she can no longer feel her legs strongly hints that it did not.
@@laislyra5512 - they didn't specify either way, but i took it to mean that the healing property of the blood had vanished due to the original source now being dead.
@@mike.s.605 since the vampire blood in the series was explained through science, I expected it to follow certain laws. It is unclear to me how the destruction of the source of the blood would affect the existence of blood inside other people's bodies. I just assumed the doctor was right and eventually, people who didn't turn into vampires expell the blood from their bodies. I read some comments saying that there are movies where killing the vampire before the transformation is completed would save the infected person. I understand why people would make this association, but the vampire thing would have to be some kind of magical curse, and I don't think that's the direction where the series was headed.
@@laislyra5512 It's possible that's the intention, but I don't think so. The doctor was certainly trying to find a scientific explanation, but the kind of explanation she was leaning toward doesn't really explain the post-death transformation and sudden craving for blood any more than it does the effects ceasing when the creature dies. So I don't think scientific realism is intended. Besides, whether it's meant to be naturally explainable or not, the effects simply fading away at that moment seems quite unlikely. The effects of drinking a small amount of blood weekly had been building up for some time, which implies that it would take longer than that to fade away without the regular dose. And there was no earlier indication that it was wearing off, such as if she was having more difficulty walking over the course of the night. I won't say your interpretation is wrong, but I don't find it as compelling as the supernatural version.
Watching that show as a Muslim I found it very refreshing that the Muslim brown guy was the "reasonable" faithful one. It's a great show and I loved everything single episode.
Same! I feel like some of his reasonableness came from his experience as "other" to Crockett and America as a whole. He was able to see Christianity abuse its status as the dominant religion (teaching the bible in school) from an outside perspective. He doesn't want to make the same mistakes, and so is able to practice his religion without forcing his beliefs on others.
One of the things I loved about the show is that everyone (except Bev, and a few minor characters) are good people doing their best. For the most part, the show doesn’t cast blame, it just shows us a dangerous situation that exists, especially in the U.S.
@@blastphantomgames6369 you’ve probably never grown up close to or within a fundamental religious household. I’m not talking your casual Christian upbringing. I’ve literally been to a Jesus camp that had us “purge” our sins by actually making us sick and puke. Youth that go through any type of conversion or abusive treatment for “sinning.” Child marriage, which is legal in MANY states, is most common amongst Christian households and is still practiced. A recent Tennessee bill was proposed eliminating age limits on marriage, which is currently already set to an abysmal age (14). If you don’t see the harm as dangerous, idk what to tell you. As far as the show goes, the ending clearly shows an example of “road to hell paved with good intentions” by the priest, and nearly everyone of the church being good people deep down. Except Bev. Fuck Bev.
That's honestly one of the saddest things. Otherwise well-intentioned or good people can do horrific and hurtful things because they don't understand the world objectively and act on that false perception.
@@blastphantomgames6369 People getting caught up and converted into a radicalization of their beliefs and doing harm to others. Religious based bigotry, harm, shunning, all kinds of stuff. Putting your own beliefs over others and basic empathy. It is a virus.
That description of fundamentalist Christianity as a virus that consumes it's hosts until nothing of them is left but the virus itself made me think of my fundamentalist mother. Religion started out as a way for her to cope with trauma when she was a teenager. Now, she has been completely "transformed" and it's as if she has become a religious robot 🤖. She can no longer relate to anyone or anything unless it's in a religious context. She can't even watch a movie or have a discussion with my daughter without going off into religious tangents. I can't call her to discuss anything that happens in my life because I already know exactly what she will say, "Pray and read the Lord's word..." "He will guide you..." "The Lord will place a hedge of protection around you..." Her responses to any life event have been pre-programmed and there is no point in conversation any longer. She has completely isolated herself and is so high on religion she doesn't realize it. It's the saddest thing I've ever seen.
I am so sorry for your pain. I can relate as my mother (though not as dogmatic) has also fallen into cognitive dissonance with reality and it's hard to talk about anything deep and meaningful with her because she will bring it back to apocalyptic thinking. Breaks my heart.
@@aaron2891I’m very atheist but still don’t trust my government. As should be logical given how true the conspiracies and corruption surrounding Covid 19 have been revealed to be.
What do you mean? You realize the show ends with the majority still having their Faith, right? They realized what they did was wrong and made the choice to die as a community.
@@Bell_MattBut their "Faith" was used to justify countless horrors and wrong-doing by them until they all realized they were doomed to die and snapped out of it. The original comment is simply saying that the show showed the negative aspects that being guided purely by faith can bring.
@@greyscott5908I think the show was pretty balanced though. Did it show the worst and the horrors? Yes! But did it also show a good view do what faith should be? (Riley, his family, his conversation with Erin, Doctor Sarah, the sherrif) I would say yes. You can be skeptical and still be religious. It isn’t either/or
I have this problem with all kinds of non-religious social norms. I simply am not capable of being swept up by popular opinion. If it feels like a hill worth dying on, I will grab my banner and be the first to die there. Alone, if I have to.
@@futurestoryteller We're all capable of it, because that's how humans are built. It's good to question and critique all social systems - that is the key to improvement and a more accurate assessment of the world - but at some point you have to pick your battles or nothing will ever get better.
Midnight Mass spoke to me more than anything ever has. I grew up Jehovah's Witness, and this show perfectly understands the environment of a small community closed off from the outside world. This show will remain in my top 5 things ever for the rest of my life.
For me, the moment when the girl re-lost her mobility was confirmation enough that the angel died, but of course I'm just guessing at how the miracle worked. Generally in vampire movies, killing the master vampire before a turned vampire dies or kills prevents the transformation.
Well, that's the dogmatic view. The other possible interpretation is the medical one Sarah had proposed, that if you stop receiving the "angel" blood, it will eventually work it's way out of your system and it's effects will wear off. You're presented with both possible interpretations and allows the viewers to choose, without confirming or invalidating one or the other option.
@@moonlily1 Go to your bookshelf, get your dictionary, and look up the word 'joke'. Also, my joke makes more sense than your explanation. She was one of the people _most_ exposed to the 'angel blood', as she was going to mass every day. It wouldn't make sense for it to 'wear off' that quickly and suddenly. The explanation that the effect stops when sunrise hits the wounded angel and kills it, while it comes from outside the narrative (i.e. from other vampire stories), at least isn't inconsistent with what the story shows.
@@Grim_Beard No, your joke isn't a better suggestion than the possibility that her line referred to something that had already been alluded to in the story telling which would suggest a payoff or follow up later in the story. It's not inconsistent because there isn't any rule or evidence that suggests that Leeza is the only person who goes to mass everyday or has consumed more of the blood than anyone else or that it couldn't wear off if it missed a dose. The story has some loose ends that didn't get tied up- like why did Ali come back when he presumably had not been taking communion and why did monsignor die that rely a lot on assumptions or implications. The idea that Leeza's comment meant that the creature had died sits just fine with me, but it isn't the only possibility.
What I love the most about this channels is that they reach a middle ground with your common christians to be aware of the process of radicalization and dangerous practices in almost any kind of group.
Typing this as I watch the preroll ads. I loved this show as a Catholic, and it spoke so so much to the experience of disenchantment with the authority of the church. Such care was put into this show to make it so accurate, and it spoke to directly to my experience.
@@rachaelregier8442 Modern media isn't about trying to keep Christians from being radicalized, it's run by people who are vehemently anti Christian in general. I can't remember ONE movie or series that does anything similar about "sweJ" or "smilsuM". Your religion is the ONLY one that is routinely mocked in countries where it was practiced by the majority of people. Weird, isn't it?
@@MrTaxiRob Remember a couple years ago when 400 Christians were bom bed in a Church by "smilsuM" and the media wouldn't even call the dead, Christians, but instead everyone called them "easter worshipers"?
I personally really loved the dissonance of Hassan’s son, Ali, getting radicalised by Bev and the church, while his Muslim father helplessly watches on. Given Bev Keane’s accusations of terrorism, it was a powerful statement. And I LOVED that last line from Liza.
Would it have worked if the father was an atheist or a Christian too? Someone explain the significance of juxtaposing the Muslim characters with the Christian ones pls because I feel like I’m missing something. I’m not religious but the writers seemed to have an agenda? Muslims are never radical?
@@chanellee9762 I think it’s significant when you consider the context of 9/11 and how fundamentalist Christians will often characterise Muslims as radical terrorists - when in fact the bloody history of Christianity is comparable in terms of fanatical violence. There’s also a tired trope of radical Muslims being used as the ‘baddies’ in the story, or the corrupting influence in a story’s community. So it was so refreshing and notable that the good Muslim man watched on as Christians radicalise his son. Basically, I found it to be a powerful statement that all religions can become violently all-consuming. People forget that about Christianity sometimes.
@@chanellee9762ude, I thought the EXACT same thing. At this moment I was like, “Ok, yeah, you lost me.” You NEVER wanna bring in another religion when attacking one specifically. It’s kinda like the US, when people start bashing it for slavery and then someone else goes, “uh… ok, but what about the modern slave trade and sex trafficking currently going on in Africa, India and China?” Like, FOCUS on one religion because you can make a point for radicalism in general, the minute you glorify another religion while shitting on another, the gig is up. They really victimized the father and son while pretty much vilifying the rest of the town.
@@controversialverbal3792I personally just interpreted it as the show portraying bigotry against Muslims. Despite Hassan being and his son being decent people, Bev still kept calling them terrorists and such. It's certainly much better than how God's Not Dead used Islam as a prop to make Christianity better by comparison. I also wouldn't say the show is attacking or praising a religion, but rather it is attacking extremism as they discussed the video. The show was more on portraying the dangers of blind faith. Hassan just happened to be someone with faith but was still critical.
Its so strange sitting here watching this as an european. Over here, leaving church is no big deal and nobody really cares. Over there, in america, it seams like a kinda survival story (in a way of losing most friends and family) and how hard it is to get out of it. good on you guys for getting out of all of it tho :)
To a European Americans look completely crazy when it is about religion. They say here even, that if you travel to US a good advice for Europeans is not to engage in conversation about religion and why prople are so religious (and also dont ask why everybody is so fat)
@@ipercalisse579 the sad reality is that is not just the US, I'm in Latin America and we are not that different in our extremist and even Europe has its outliers like Poland.
I feel bad for people of faith who are drawn into radicalization, i am not of faith most certainly, but i understand that we are all trying to cope with the uncertainties of life. I cope with inquiry and learning, aswell as focusing on literature, some do not. When people take advantage of that coping to instill radicalization it steams me up admittedly.
@@a.i.contacttracer305 lol, ironically i have to get my vaccine card reprinted. Some dude stole it from my car. Which is a *really* wierd thing to steal.
I watched the show because I saw you made a video on it, and honestly it was amazing The horror for me wasn't the monsters, but rather the people. For example, Bev's one sided discussion in the classroom about handing out Bibles felt way too real to me and made me more uneasy than most horror
Warning: If you grew up in a fundamental religious household this show will most likely trigger a lot of memories and emotions. One of the better shows I have seen so far and the scene where Erin finally understands she is part of the universe was touching and pretty deep. So many lessons to be learned from Midnight Mass!
There's nothing fair about calling this show perfect in any sense of the word. Not seeing the plot holes the size of a Borg vessel is proof of irrationality which is basically athiests just want to be right. Just like leftists. They just want to hurt their competition because they're so butthurt by their past experiences like I've heard so much here.. Boo hoo... my fundamentallist mother blah blah blah.... I was hurt so now I have to fucking hurt the world. That's like a weaker form of a serial killer.
Bev is one of my favorite villains of all time Being able to justify any horrible thing with a few Bible verses You there, you reading this, you know someone like this
A year ago I took a class on Native American history. I learned how we massacred them and forced them out of their lands and onto reservations and their kids were forced to become Christians. When I talked to a family member she said it was god's plan and that thats the price of progress. So....I mean yeah...go figure
My mother refound Jesus when I came out at age 14 (in 1995) as a lesbian (before I ended up transitioning to male in 2003) and when she got cozy with Christianity again, she lost a grip on what Christianity is because her uncomfortableness over my sexuality and clearly gender variant personhood started to really gel and stray away from her ideal child. There's a scene at the end of the last episode of the show, when one person calls another person out in their crappy behavior, telling them that god doesn't love them more than everyone else because they are pious - it made me wish my mother was watching this show, even if that would never sink in if someone said it to her. She's too addicted, like you're saying, to the high she gets from thinking so highly of herself to see anything but that. I haven't spoken to her more than 3 times in the last 19 years. I know that I watched her and my stepdad con people out of their money for years before and after going evangelist. And she's abusive to everyone she knows but believes herself a prophet and doing the will of God (even though I kind of don't believe she fully buys it herself) Excellent episode so far. I can't wait to hear what else y'all have to say. Thanks for this. 💗
@@charlesesseltine7054 I think they do buy it and just rationalize it away. Otherwise she wouldn't need to hold on to anything that makes her feel above other people
I wept at several points in this series (just finished it last night). The discussions on death from several of the characters was gut-wrenching but beautiful. As a former fundie, so much of this hit close to home, and as an atheist, I was surprised at how some of the hymns used (especially Nearer, my God, to Thee) really affected me. I could see the beauty in that music for what it was without the religious attachments to it. We are all forged in the heart of stars.
Midnight Mass is the best Creation (pun intended) I have ever seen that shows the way scripture can be manipulated to ANY end that the speaker/reader/listener desires. Beverley Keane is magical in the way she uses Bible verse to justify every action she and the Church takes on it's horrific path through the mini-series. Samantha Sloyan (the actress that played Bev Keane) deserves an Academy Award for her performance. There has rarely been such a perfect representation of evil. I can only think of Cersei as a character in recent history that invokes the same level of disgust in the audience; Bev's character however has much more impact on real life issues that the World is facing today and both sword and shield against Christin fundamentalism and all the mono-theistic religions. Obviously the writers deserve huge props for the spectacular script; the directors for their, well, direction; and everyone on the cast for performances for the ages. Midnight Mass should be a required watch for everyone over the age of about 15 imho. It should lose it's "Horror" tag and get an "Educational" one. Clearly I am being a bit tongue in cheek here... but only a bit.
@@crhu319 Nope, can't agree. The old Nature Vs Nurture argument. Sure there was some nurture involved, but Cersei, like Beverley Keane, walked her own path and made their own choices. Both knew that they were manipulating their Worlds to their own ends and neither cared about anyone else enough to give a shit. Psychopaths lacking any empathy and very little humanity. Regardless, that wasn't the point. The comparison was about the disgust Bev and Cersei caused in their audiences, not the breakdown of the how's and why's they did what they did.
Watched the first ten minutes and decided I had to see `Midnight Mass' without [further] spoilers... Back now. :-) Thanks for the warning, btw. I'm a little surprised you didn't mention Sturge, the compliant parishioner who probably wouldn't hurt anyone if he weren't told it's God's Way. But with each step toward fanaticism, he voices his concerns and then does what he's told. He may be a minor character, but he's a good indicator of what's happening to the congregation as a whole, really ties the whole story together.
I have never had faith, so, while I really enjoyed Midnight Mass, I think your past as a believer renders you more receptive to a number of its themes, and you present some insightful observations here. Thanks for this. And I recommend "Absentia", an earlier Flanagan work.
I'm post faith and would say that m prior experience with that universe has always made me more resistant to the temptations of radicalization. I can more easiy identify the differece between benvolent kind compassion as an extension of faith in a higher good and dogmatic devotion to the in group demanding sycophantic loyaty as the price of membership. Being a gold star atheist does not necessarily make one more immune.
@@bloodink9508 well I suppose there's 'atheist' as a person who doesn't believe in God, and 'atheist' as a person who doesn't feel the need to have a religion. I've never had a faith, but listening to religious people talk, I infer they have a natural draw to that kind of thing. I've never felt the need to have all the answers, my spirituality isnt particularly strong. The existence of post religious 'spirituality' would tend to confirm that many humans have an innate need for something that the physical world can't provide. So while, yes you can have radical atheists I think in general it's a trait of the religious and spiritual.
@@a.i.contacttracer305 Wtf does that have to do with my question about the genre of the movie? Lol!! I have nothing to prove to some idiot in yt comments
@@alexlarsen6413 well A.I's baseless accusations have upvotes so they must be right, right? Unless it's a reference to something neither of us are aware of?
This is incredible!! Watching midnight mass immediately after deconverting was cathartic, painful, and beautiful for me. Thank you for making such a detailed analysis of how we felt while watching!
I loved the show and I loved this analysis. Having gone through deconversion myself, Midnight Mass hit real close to home. Religion takes many forms because people take many forms. Watching the show, Riley is the character I identified with the most. He had been religious, went through more than one trial that tested that faith, and he realized he wanted something more rational. The scene where he describes death without religion is uniquely beautiful. He has faced down his personal fear of death and conquered it. His heroic sacrifice is the only reason anybody survives Crockett's destruction. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing, and Riley is the good man doing something. His actor brought the character to life perfectly.
Really enjoyed this. Might’ve been worthwhile getting an ex-Catholic to discuss the sacramental aspects of the narrative, given it’s a huge part of Midnight Mass, but really well done guys. You nailed you points.
sheriff Hassan character is one of real depiction of real muslim people all over the world. i was surprised that an American show really shows about about how a true muslim man will live life and not showing them as extremist or villain. every religion and ideology has extremist even liberalism, socialism and communism had extremist and still has but those people were never generalized by the governments but only islam was shown bad. even though they showed it wrong many people are converting to islam. according PEW "islam will be the most followed religion in 2070 of the world." truth will conquer the lies eventually. thanks a lot for the person who talked about sheriff hassan character because vi la bianca well organised and said it in ethical way of understanding.
Really? Listen more closely. Socialism and communism have both been generalised, especially in the US. The McCarthy hearings were even more extreme than anything any religious follower has faced.
I am so glad you guys are talking about this! I was surprised more atheists haven't. I have watched it a couple times, but the first time, not knowing where they were going with it, i got frustrated that it seemed to be pushing church on one of the characters, but then when I watched in its entirety, it made sense why they started off that way. It was brilliant.
If you have a message, try to make it appear as if you're trying to support the opposite of it. Give all the reasons why this opposing view could be correct, almost have your viewers agreeing with it, and then just pull the rug out from under it. The viewer gets to experience the tempting emotions and faulty reasoning that would make them fall victim to some false movement, ideology, whatever have you. It has greater effect since the viewer will have the feeling of "Dang, I was on the edge of almost agreeing with that".
Yeah, I stopped watching in the first episode because I thought it was just another teen vampire show. I didn’t realize it was such a thoughtful and complex narrative.
I’m so glad you covered this series. I’m a former fundamentalist Christian turned atheist and my wife and I loved the show. You really broke it down well and helped put words to what I was already feeling. Thank you.
Midnight Mass fascinated me in part because of so much bible-thumping, scripture quoting used to justify what was so obviously wrong. Most of my life was spent as a bible-thumping, scripture quoting Jehovah's Witness so I too can identify so much with many of the characters. I also love cats more than I love most humans so yeah, I hated _that_ part of the show.
@@boobooismine1 Doesn't it seem wrong that we're often okay with seeing adult humans getting killed in movies but can't stand the death of a dog or cat? I think so. But being human is being messed up, and that alone fascinates me. Hell, one of my unpublished stories has stray cats getting killed. I hate it, don't want it in there but it's the only way for events to make sense. First cats then humans. Damn! Maybe Mike Flanagan didn't want to have dead cats either? Makes sense. But since there's a predatory vampire that just endured a long voyage in a small box he had no choice...
@BARF No, Midnight Mass is one way religion can go very wrong, and high-control cults are another way. Most of the time religion doesn't push people into extremes of behavior.
Request: I'd love to hear a respectful secular discussion about handling our elder Christian parents as they become senior citizens and encounter issues such as dementia, for example. How do we care for our elders "spiritual needs" as they age and become our responsibility? My mother fell last year, and it's occurred to me that if anything happens to my stepdad, her "spiritual needs" will be up to me to provide. There's a part of me that wants to drop it, but that seems inhumane.
Hi there. I'd like to share my perspective from a Muslim POV. In Islam, we believe that the responsibilities of worship falls on those who possess their full mental faculties. Therefore those who are too young (normally children below 7 y/o), in a coma, and the mentally ill don't share this responsibility. In case of dementia, it depends on how much they remember about the worship process. For example, if the elderly parent(s) still remember the basics of prayer and are still able to perform the minimum, then those who are caring for them can help by reminding them about prayer times and preparing for the rituals. If their mental faculties deteriorate to the point that they can no longer remember, then they no longer obligated to perform those prayers and rituals. Other than that, we do our best in taking care of them, being there, and praying for them. If we are capable and able to afford it, certain rituals can be performed on their behalf, such as donating wealth under their names or the pilgrimage to Mecca being such examples.
My humble opinion... treat their spiritual needs as any other need. It really is that simple. Dr's visit or church service... treat it the same and help her whatever way you can. This is the beauty of our world. Our beliefs don't have to separate us. Accept each other for who we are, love each other despite our differences.
Both your needs are important. You need to decide what you're willing to do and then do your best to compromise (hard, but necessary) Personally, I would feel like taking your mother to church is like feeding her whatever she wants in her old age. If she refuses to eat anything but strawberry milkshakes and snickerdoodles, then I guess it's good she's eating something even if that thing is not the best for her. People need to feel like they have meaning and purpose in life, and if going to church is when she's willing to leave the house and it gives her purpose, I would support her decision. That said, I don't know your personal situation, so if it's going to put undue pressure on you or if she's falling into seriously bad habits, you don't have to. Just keep in mind that you can do a trial period and see how it goes.
@@idrabohm3678 Sorry I didn't provide much info on the situation. Perhaps I should explain a bit for you and anyone else who wants to share any advice. Also, thank you for your input! *UPDATE:* My mother is in a nursing home, which she's coming to accept is permanent because she's bound to a bed and a wheelchair due to head trauma and neuropathy. She has little to no use of her left limbs due to seizures during surgery when they released blood trapped under her skull after she fell over a year ago. Her vision is improved enough that she's been able to read again for the past couple of months. Her short term memory is kind of impaired, and she's been diagnosed with early stage dementia. This is more than she and my stepdad can handle alone, so the most cost effective way to make sure her medical needs are met is for her to be where she is from now on. (It's a highly rated facility where the staff are capable and friendly. Some even share her Evangelical Christian views.) My stepdad currently doesn't qualify to live there with her. He is handling everything. He spends most of his time with her, and he goes home to his own place at night. This is very sad for her, but it's really best for him so he can sleep when she needs late night help. They love each other so much; I feel awful for both of them. She recently went on an antidepressant, which is helping more than words can describe, but of course, "Jesus took my grief away," is the story we're going with, so now she can be "at peace" with these sudden and total life-changes. I don't care who gets the credit; just glad it's working, and I hope she doesn't quit. I'm okay with the religion stuff as long as it 1) isn't forcing me to convert, and/or 2) doesn't stray into their politics because their politics are 100% based on converting _everyone_ to their religion.
Yay! Crossover! What I, a never-religious, learned from this is that the temperate religious, those who get along to get along, have no power to resist the pull of extreme fundamentalism. When fundamentalism rises, moderates do not fight, do not resist. They either become co-conspirators to the excess, or they become fundamentalists themselves. Being moderate is just not enough, and I fear that they are simply not the allies they might think they are to us in the secular world.
This is 100% correct and a perfect description of leftism/liberalism. Moderates look at us warning about the radical nature of leftists and activists and castrating children etc. and they're like "Calm down son, you're too crazy with all that shit." Or it's like "that's just a few crazy people. that will never grow into anything."
As an atheist coming from a Catholic/Jewish background, it's always interesting to me how atheists who come from fundamentalist/evangelical backgrounds view the CC.
@@elgatofelix8917 Well you've had real issues with grammar and spelling in your other comments, and the concept of a religiously mixed family seems to challenge your ego for some obscure reason, so I'd say that there seem to be a few things too difficult for you to deal with. BTW- The laughing emojis are cute, but you manage to somehow make them seem kinda desperate and sad. All in all you need to go back to troll school and get better if you wanna keep this sorta thing up. Have a great day!!😁👋
Yes. How so many people right now act exactly the same way Christians do.. Asking the universe for stuff. Sometimes even capitalizing the word. As if it's a person. They say the universe wants you to blah blah etc. It's exactly the same........ except that they're basically asking a thing to give them stuff. And they're thanking a thing for giving it to them.. But then they ridicule and laugh at someone who believes in a .. what did those people say? "an imaginary sky man" ... while talking to what essentially is a vast array of steller matter and objects within a huge void.
I have two theories that allowed me to maintain my suspension of disbelief after the "angel" revealed itself: 1.) This world in which the story is set has no lore of vampires, so they would have no other context with which to understand the creature. 2.) This one is more funny. There absolutely is lore and stories of vampires in this world, but by some random accident of chance, the people of Crockett just have never heard of them lol
I think #1 is clearly the intention. If nothing else Riley and Erin, who have lived out in the real world for quite a long time, would have at least heard of Twilight and/or Dracula and would have therefore used the word "vampire" to describe what was happening. It's like a zombie movie where you have to make peace with the assumption that the giant pop culture phenomenon that is the monster doesn't exist. I think it's a reasonable concession to make in both cases, so that we can have a fresh experience of the monster.
@@shinyary2 that's my thoughts too, but think about how hilarious if it was something like, there was a huge billboard advert for twilight or other vampire media right next to the ferry port on the mainland and no one ever noticed it. It made me chuckle when I first thought of that
@@disinterestedhomo6002 lol it is kind of funny to think about. I mean, who can blame them? Looking up at billboards is clearly a worldly activity and thus sinful. Who knows what temptations might await on mysterious billboards on the other side of that ferry? Dare we take the chance on our immortal souls? I say not, my brothers and sisters in Christ! Cast not your eyes upon these heathen idols, these monuments to sexual immorality and perversions! For as the Israelites fashioned for themselves a golden calf before the very mount where they were to receive God's holy commandments, so too does the world fashion images for themselves to worship after their own fashion. Give not into temptation!
Have you considered they would simply rationalize the stories of vampires as previous encounters with angels, now that they've met one. Especially since one of those two supernatural beings they believe in wholeheartedly, and the other is nothing but a story.
Bev digging in the sand to try and bury her head to ignore the reality of her situation was a truly magnificent metaphor for Christians being faced with truth and trying to bury their heads in the sand to not be affected by it.
Ex Catholic here, I turned Atheist very early, when I was 6 years old. I attribute this to the fact my mom read to me Egyptian and Greek mythology (pg versions of them ofc). When I asked my catechism teacher why her stories were "true" and not the ones from the ancient people's mythology, she never gave me a clear rebuttal. Add to the fact that all my friends that did their communion just did it for the presents and not for faith, did not help. When I discovered there were not only different Christian faiths and non Christian faiths, I concluded that we just made it all up cause we just want to control our fellow humans.
Thank you both for an excellent "review" of a tremendously complicated film. The author of Midnight Mass must receive an Oscar. Now I will look to see if Big Joel has reviewed this also. Again, thank you both.
@@elgatofelix8917 God was a sexual predator of children so get off your high horse about what you think Hollywood is while you worship a rapist mass murderer. The problem is men who want to rape not a particular vocation.
Your description of Sara, "She has learned how to live in that liminal space, without ruffling feathers..." that's me. Cause I'm the preacher's daughter, I've lead the worship since I was 15, and I've sat on the front row with my mother and sister my whole life. But I've been a closeted atheist for 2 years now. I think I'm just making things harder for myself by staying quiet. But what would they even say if I told them I want to quit going to church? I love my parents and I know it will cause them so much pain to hear the truth. I guess I have to decide how much the truth really matters to me.
If your parents only love you because your in the 'faith', then they don't really love you. I told my parents I left Christianity and it was rough, but I didn't want to pretend to be something I'm not just to make people feel better. If you've changed and the people around you want to stay the same, it might just mean you need to be around a new crowd.
I can kind of relate to keeping quiet about things to avoid hurting your family. It hasn't been a major burden on me per se, but it definitely doesn't feel nice. There's not much pressure aside from my dad asking me whether I've been studying scripture. (I watch enough skeptical/atheist content that I'm not _technically_ lying when I say "yeah, now and then"). My mom doesn't really probe me too much, either. In her words, "if you're an atheist, just don't tell me and your dad".
I can relate to this because my dad is one of the church ministers. I've to do a lot of things for the church, but I've been an atheist for almost five years now. It's difficult because I'm from South Africa, the majority of the nation is Christian, I am not financially independent. I know that speaking out will end up with me being kicked out of the house, and my siblings - I'm the eldest - being completely isolated from any social interactions besides church. I've been barely holding on to my sanity for almost five years now, keeping quiet, while the truth, my mind and my very existence just want to scream out every time I sit at church and hear the nonsense and bigotry. My parents are from this cult called, The Message or Branhamism. You guys should check it out.
@@leothenrdkng Wow, I'd never heard of 'Branhamism' before. It definitely must take some highly faithful people to believe in all that, but I guess you could say the same for all of Christianity. Your story is inspiring, I'm with you on everyone around me being Christian. It's strange to think that every family member and friend I have would believe that I should burn in Hell for being apostate, so I try not to think about that. That's why I'm so grateful for the like-minded people I've found on the internet, I doubt I'd have any sanity left if I couldn't go here. You sound like a very strong person but 5 years is a long time for anyone to keep something so essential inside. I know the weight on you must be so heavy, I hope it gets easier to carry in your future.
completely unrelated to the religious aspect, but i was literally too dense to get that it was a vampire, but i thought it was just some random supernatural creature that people were calling an angel. i really overlooked the whole fangs, blood-drinking, transforming victims, etc.
I found Riley a sympathetic character. His guilt and his faith crisis was LEGIT... it was the literal kinda deal _I_ went through; it FEELS and comes across very legit and honest, candid even... Though I had a diff kinda crisis... for me/us it was chuch ppl being legit HATEFUL to us for having a mental illness, yes LITERALLY. And Riley I soooooo identify with, so deeply in so many ways.
"Extremism almost always poses as an ideology which offers miraculous benefits to its proponents, but it never delivers those benefits any longer than it needs to in order for its leaders to seize a source of power or for the ideology itself to reproduce." Holy cow. I think that happened to me. I am (or was?) a Mormon. A weakness of the flesh almost prevented me from going on an evangelical mission, but I received just enough "divine assistance" to get me out there. Now, over a decade later, I still have that weakness, and God doesn't seem interested in helping me overcoming it anymore. He already got my best two years. He doesn't need anything else from me. Naturally, many members of my faith would argue that God isn't helping me because I'm not praying enough or reading my scriptures enough, or because I give in to the weakness too willingly or too frequently, but I'm starting to think that God doesn't care to help me overcome the weakness, if He ever did (if He even exists). And if God doesn't care enough to do His part to fight my temptations, then maybe I don't need to either.
I'm also a Mormon, and I've also been fighting a "weakness of the flesh" for the past few years, and I feel like my whole experience with it has been way different from yours. Sure reading scriptures and praying are supposed to help, but I was never promised that my weakness would go away. The scripture promises that you wont be tempted above that which ye are able to bear, but that you will be provided with a way to escape. I recall having the first half of that scripture memorized, but totally discounting the latter in the early days of my struggle, before I joined a therapy program. It's not that we'll be strong enough to overcome every temptation, its that there is a way to get better, and God will help us when we need it most. I recently turned 18, and am preparing to go on my mission. I've had concerns that I wont be ready in time, but they've been met with the assurance that I'm not on a hard deadline, and that every slip up doesn't mean the end of the world. I ended up in this situation by complete accident in spite of my best efforts, and have found myself wondering why God didn't warn me, but then I remember that a) he kind of did and I just wasn't in a state of mind to pay attention and b) I've actually learned a lot from fighting this. It's made me more empathetic to other people, and it's teaching me how to fight for my best future even when it seems like I'll never be able to achieve that. I've learned that there's value in the fight itself, and I'm a better person for the fact that I haven't given up. God condemns rebellion, not weakness. There's a conference talk about that. The hardest part in overcoming a weakness is in finding the balance in caring so much that a failure destroys you, leaving you vulnerable to the next attack, and giving up. I'd encourage you stick with it a little while longer. Ask your questions, and search for your answers in a variety of places. The scriptures can give you the answers, but they're not the only source anymore. I don't have all of the answers just yet, but I've received enough to feel confident that God knows what he's doing, and that my efforts are enough for now. I promise you he cares. I don't know what you've tried, but I've found exercise, journal writing, music (Jar of Hearts taken out of context works pretty well for me), talking to supportive people, and occasionally whacking my pillow with a wooden sword to be effective additions to prayer and scripture study. I can't say I'll be surprised if I serve my mission with no troubles only to have a hard time again when I get back. I've hear that's pretty common. I'd be happy to talk if you need someone, but I hope you have someone you know a bit better and trust a bit more who can do better, or perhaps a local counseling group you can find. Maybe start by trying to identify thought processes that do and don't help, and make sure whoever is supposed to be supporting you knows when what they're saying isn't actually supportive. It's hard, but so far I've found it to be worth it for the person I'm becoming.
@Zendikari Sparkmage Yep. Exactly. God doesn't care, because he doesn't exist. He never did, he never will. Make your own choices that make you happiest without worrying what others think of you. Best of luck!
"Offers miraculous benefits to it's proponents, but never delivers" hmm sounds suspiciously like the fabled "return to normalcy" the CDC, WHO, multinational pharmaceutical conglomerates and the Biden administration has been promising for well over 2 years now if only we "inoculate" ourselves with an experimental Big Pharma injection.
@@elgatofelix8917 It's people like you who are preventing a return to normalcy. I doubt you know much about vaccine development and epidemiology (and what is required to reach herd immunity) apart from the mis/disinformation that is being perpetuated by, in particular, those with a political ideology who don't give a damn about lost lives, or religionists too deluded to know better. I know, from painful experience, that arguing with those mired in conspiracy thinking is futile but if you or someone you care about does become dangerously ill please stay away from the medical treatment that might be necessary to save your lives...you don't deserve it.
@@garethedwards1926 OK, show me proof of your claim that I have prevented thousands upon thousands of individuals from getting injected with your miracle jab, genius. According to you, nobody on Earth has been vaxxed all because of "people like me". Go ahead and prove your claim which contradict all data being reported by the CDC and other vaxx advocacy organizations. Let's see your proof, I'll get the popcorn! 😂
Ex- Southern Baptist, watching the show pointing out all the familiar moments to my wife. She apologized several times that I had to grow up that way. She has only known the concept of religion never apart of any.
@@arsic094 it's not an actual apology, it goes something like... "I am sorry you had to go through that" it's not that she could of done anything but more of an acknowledgement I suppose.
Two small things: It's heavily implied that Pruitt was poisoned (same death as the dog and later the people in the church) and the vampire has to be dead for the girl to loose the feeling in her legs again
it's been a pleasure and joy to follow your growth as a human being, and your deepening compassion and clarity over the last couple years. you've helped me to grow as well. i thank you.
This is so spot on. I've read and watched a few reviews that seem to miss how important Erin's final scene is and what the show is actually saying about faith. I think you got it just right.
Atheists dont recommend each other enough Atheist-RU-vidrs, in my opinion, kidna keeping them all small. So excuse me if i just dorp some: Belief It Or Not, Viced Rhino, Atheist Jr, Telltale, Creaky Blinder, Hbomberguy.
I do have seen this situation many times although not as extreme, being raised as a catholic, I remember all the things I did that seem normal but I find absurd now as I slowly deconstruct from faith and practice critical thinking more..
Great video! Perfectly summed up the messages of the show. One character you didn't bring up was Sturge: who represents the 'groupthink' mentality. He goes along with Bev and Pruitt's plans with very little question, only at the very end realising he was wrong to do so. In that sense, he's kind of an 'everyman'; the average person who never realises the rising issues until it's too late.
Great review. There is another interesting series "Raised by Wolves", I still have to watch it though, but the plot seems to be interesting. This is from Wikipedia - it centers on two androids, Father and Mother, tasked with raising human children on Kepler-22b after the Earth was destroyed by a great war. As the burgeoning colony of humans threatens to be torn apart by religious differences, the androids learn that controlling the beliefs of humans is a treacherous and difficult task. Going to watch Episode 1 Season 1 right now. Thank you for everything you're doing, Drew, Vi. 🙃
Finished the 1st season, holy cow its fascinating! (It does get WIERD toward the end of season one, need to see season 2 to understand wtf happened), but I highly encourage people to watch it!
Raised by Wolves storyline and characters are influenced heavily by hebrew , roman,and greek myth. It's got interesting things about it, however its not really saying anything in the manner of Midnight Mass. Which is the reason this video by Drew & Vi was made.
One thing I just loved so so much about this show is how it managed to criticizes dogma, without condemning religious faith. It showed religon in a positive and negative light. I’m a big Mike Flanagan fan. I still think his best work is Doctor Sleep, but holy (pun intended) was Midnight Mass a work of art.
Thank you for this video. I was born into a fundamentalist sect that my mother left shortly after I turned 1. Watching the show was like a journey of generational trauma. There were all these archetypes that I never knew myself but my mother always acted wary of them. Bev Keane was... I've known some Bev Keanes in my day and I so rarely see that kind of brutality, that instrumentalization of faith in a villain.
MIdnight Mass was definitely an amazing series that touched on some deep topics. I think I'm going to have to give it a re-watch. Thie analysis was also amazing, you two! Thanks so much for putting this together and sharing it with us.
I loved this show but I saw the monster as a clever interpretation of a classic vampire. And I think that it was showing how you can justify horrific things in the name of religion, even an actual monster
This show had amazing writing, characters, and such a rich and interesting message. I just watched it a few weeks ago and after finishing it, i thought it would make for a great video of yours! And i was right
I relate so much to Taylor's feelings of "my deconversion is boring". I wrestled and doubted and fought so hard for my faith for a long time and was burnt out... then, one day, woke up and realized there was nothing left. I had forgotten to be a Christian and my life didn't feel empty.
As a stout non-believer suffering from alcoholism, I discovered SMART Recovery, another science-based recovery group. However you get sober or clean, whatever road you choose, whether religious or secular, freedom from addiction is a better, happier road. Thanks for the insights into this interesting series Drew.
I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist church. While it wasn’t Catholic, when I tell you that they got every fucking thing right in the show as far as the preaching, the fanaticism, the sheer devotion, even the manner of speaking and the similes and metaphors the preacher uses. It’s all spot on. That’s why the episode six and seven hit so fucking hard for me. It’s like every cult, every crazy segment combined. But with vampires. I’m re-watching it again this year. It’s perfect.
I am a Buddhist. I am also an atheist. Carl Sagan helped my father out of religion, and Sagan did the same for me. His series Cosmos turns 43 this year and I’m about to watch it for the 7th time.
I’m absolutely blown away at how good this breakdown is from the viewpoint of an freethinker. I can tell that you guys put a lot of work into this. Outstanding job. Keep up the great work.
I saw your video, went and watched the entire show, then came back to watch your video. Thank you for letting me know about this amazing show! I identified so much with so many characters.
Your guest host's story reminds me of my own Journey away from theism... As a child until I was about maybe 5 I was raised Roman Catholic as my paternal grandmother was a staunch Catholic who went to afternoon Mass every day 5 days a week then she did midnight mass a lot on Saturday and morning Mass on Sunday. Both my parents were raised in Roman Catholic families and I was sent to Catholic school but by the time kindergarten ended, my parents had converted to some kind of Northern baptism where they were actually drowned almost in a pool signifying their baptism into the Baptist faith. Even then I thought it was kind of like a cult So from then on my parents were raising us as Protestant Baptist who's at the Catholic church was satanic and Pagan and took in a lot of pagan religious rights in order to convert the peoples around them more easily. This is true but I don't know how to go from that to believing in baptism which is completely unfounded as well and has its own issues but I digress But even though my parents were trying to raise me and my two brothers as good little Protestants my grandmother was horrified and said that we were baptized Catholic and will always be Catholic whether we like it or not. And she made sure that I went to Catholic school all the way through High School and she tried her damnedest to get me confirmed as a Catholic and to keep me on the Catholic side LOL But your parents have a certain control over you so I was pretty indoctrinated into Protestant baptism whatever he'll cope they were in all through grade school and middle school but then I ended up going to a Jesuit High School. The Jesuits aren't normal Catholics there are separate order kind of like Benedictine monks. Jesuits are known for being spies like in WWII they were information Brokers and stuff but they're also known for being teachers and starting schools. Jesuits are famed as educators. So I went to Fairfield college preparatory school which was situated right on the campus of Fairfield University. The whole purpose of the school was to prepare us for college. There were no shop classes or machine classes or anything like that lol it was all college prep period and during my studies I learned about science the scientific method and and a lot of philosophy and epistemology which was really really mind-blowing to me learning epistemology and critical thinking it almost it took like maybe a couple of months and I began to question my religion When is sophomore year we had a class called world religions where we literally studying world religions and got in-depth what they actually believed and face Wayne but misconceptions that we have about certain religions and stuff like that and I also studied the history of Christianity and the history of the Bible and how it was formed and more than all the science I learned which was key and still on the saying speak to this day it was studying the Bible and Biblical history and the history of the Catholic religion that turn me into an atheist
I always found it completely insane how the Catholic Church not devoting themselves completely to cultural extermination and let the people who converted bring aspects of their culture with them something to condemn them for. Besides it is not like modern missionaries don't also do this exact thing, they don't demand all former cultural practices be extinguished.
It’s easier to pull people in if you don’t make them change more than they’re willing, and new converts are revenue streams. It’s not surprising at all.
At least in your jesuit school. You were introduced to philosophy, science and other world religions. We don't do that in islam. Most muslims dont even understand what there re reading in the quran.
I've always wondered why the Baptists and Catholics hate each other. My parents are Baptist, and my grandmother (dad's side) is Catholic and they're always making snide comments at each other.
@@ToastyJunebugs as I've come to understand it, the Baptist view the Catholics as pagans and worshippers of false idols (like images/statues of Mary or the Saints) and false gods (like they think Catholics deify the Papacy). My parents were particularly aghast that a _lot_ of Catholic tradition-- from holidays, to certain dogma and theology, to how the Church tries to keep regular people from reading and interpreting the Bible as they want you to go through your priest --as pagan in origin. They did have a point there-- the early church had an at least de facto, if not du jure, policy of _adopting & adapting_ pagan beliefs and rituals so that converting them into Christendom was easier. They would _adopt_ things like the yule log or winter festival or the household gods and _adapt_ those things to Christianity-- the winterfest becameh Christmas holiday with a yule log/tree as decoration; or the function of the traditional household gods was transfered to the saints as the patron saint of X, Y, or Z, rather than a small god of X, Y, or Z The catholics, for their part, see themselves as the true home of Christendom; the original, with holy tradition on their side. They see baptists as just one more failure of Protestantism-- protestants have no holy tradition to help guide theology snd interpret the bible so they have schisms over sticking points thereof. So they see protestants in general as a failed attack on Holy Mother Church-- but still dangerous That's how I see it anyway
Ok. I watched the first few minutes of this RU-vid video and decided to stop and watch all of the first season of Midnight Mass before continuing. Now, after finishing, I reflect on a little irony. So, in essence, I spent about 7 or eight hours of watch time, just so I can enjoy the insight of a 35minute breakdown.... LOL. I loved the show and loved the breakdown. I can easily see how religiosity could bring a group of people to this state and see many of these characteristics with those whom I know personally. Thank you for sharing this experience and insight.
I started watching this video and quickly realized from the footage and what you said about Riley, that I wanted to see the series first for myself. So I did. It sent me emotionally on a journey that was...almost too hard to endure, but I was also unable to stop. I found myself so attached to the stories and characters, I spent the last episode bawling my eyes out. The scene with the cups sent me into a VERY unpleasant flashback to Jonestown. This series was so hard to watch, and at the same time so genius and addicting. It really hit so close to so many real things. I really can't wait to dig into the video now.
John 3:16 New International Version 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Look up the shroud of Turin. It's impossible to remake and the closest they ever got to debunking it. They took a sample from the wrong piece of the cloth
Next to Arcane this was my favorite series last year! As an atheist myself who grew up in a community where Christianity is a big part of (though apparently not nearly as much as in America) I felt a strong connection to the story. The music, scenery, acting and dialogues and monologues were captivating and immersive. Pretty early on I was sceptic in the matters of religion - the Bible stories painted a cruel and unlogical God I wasn't comfortable believing in. Then came Stephen Kings "Revival" (one of his best modern works and next to Salems Lot it had many parallels) and I felt validation in my atheism or at the very least it assured me that any religion I was aware of couldn't be the truth. I had fun being in a Christian group for kids but I only ever cared for the music and games we played while talking and listening to preaching usually annoyed me. Finally I had a falling out with the preacher about the whole inconsistencies and since then I grew further detached from any forms of faith. It was by no means a cult and there was no pressure on me from the church or my parents to reconnect with them so I never felt any negative consequences. What shocked me the most in resent years are the cases of pedophile preachers in the catholic and evangelical church here in Germany and how the state does virtually nothing to bring those criminals to justice. Over 200000 known cases in France and the number in Germany is unknown... There are no huge protests that I know of who challange this system and coming from a country with a relatively big percentage of atheists I'm still kinda scared of how much power the church still has. So for me the series wasn't that similar to any personal experiences I had but I could still emphasize by imagining that the small town was a concentrated example of the spread of this "virus" in Europe and its still lasting effects as it grew to be resistant to any kind of change. Right now it's like a chronic incurable disease weakening the society by exploiting/abusing the weak and draining money through taxes like a Parasite.
I want to give this episode two thumbs up or even three. Very insightful commentary. I think I'll re-watch it just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Thank you Drew and Vi!
Oh my god, I loved this show so much and it really, really hit home as an ex-christian (ex-fundievangelical). I was crying at the end, because of how it touched those parts of my past and how well they portrayed it. I hope it helps people understand how dangerous religion can be
After watching your episode, I binge watched the movie and I have to say that you two absolutely nailed it. Rewatched your episode and your discussion solidified.
I'm more messed up than I realized. I haven't watched Midnight Mass, yet this episode made me cry as I reflected on my life, my impact on those around me, as well as theirs on me... just a rollercoaster of guilt, pity, empathy, and anger... I just want to be a better person
Try to let the guilt go. You’re obviously a different person, which is a hell of a lot more than many people can say. It’s not my place to forgive you on behalf of anyone, and that isn’t what I’m trying to do, but you have no control over what has already happened, so guilt won’t accomplish anything (that hasn’t already happened.) Religion makes people capable of doing really awful things, and I’m genuinely sorry that you were ever in a religious community. It sounds like you’re already a better person, now, and that’s all that really matters.
When I saw Midnight Mass on Netflix, I purposefully avoided it because I didn't know what it was about and I thought the religious nature of the show would be too much for me. After seeing that you both put this video out, I knew I had to watch it and so I did. I did have one scene in particular that triggered me unexpectedly and brought me to tears, but the show was very much worth it. Thank you for making this video, I watched the show with the premise of radicalization in mind, and they really did get so much right in this show, so much that I spent most of my time shaking my head and getting pretty upset about it.
