Hey guys! If you're late to the conversation, here's a summary of my thoughts after reading the comments. 1 - Reform: I agree that reform is needed, prisoners should leave a better person to reintegrate into society and not reoffend. 2 - education: I agree that education is a vital part of the program, they need to learn what their parents failed to teach them and increase their chances of getting a good job and living in a civilised manner. 3 - Treatment: I agree that they need to be treated humanely and given a chance to redeem themselves and learn empathy and kindness. 4 - Facilities: I disagree that they need to live in comfort, especially if it's a better living condition than what some civilians currently live in, but that's a problem for the country to solve, not the prison. 5 - Country: This prison may look unattractive to Norway because I think Norway's living standards and quality of life are superior to a 3rd world country which would perceive this prison to look like a 4-star hotel. In my opinion, it doesn't work to deter criminals, but the current "hell prisons" also don't seem to keep people from committing a crime. Solution: It all starts with education, if we are taught that committing crimes is wrong, we will be less inclined to commit one. If we are taught that money isn't to be coveted, we will be less inclined to commit crimes for it. If we are taught to harness our skills, we will be more likely to find a good job. If we are taught to treat people kindly and empathy, we are less likely to commit crimes. It all comes down to education, if we learn to live together as a community, it will flow. I hope this clears things up, 😊
The only way, for some reason, to commate what yoy are saying… why are we going to lower our self to your problems? This is the best way to not re offend! Watch the whole video!! Liked you before, but im not going to do it anymor! You dont get it! 17:48
Try not to immediately go into a defensive position for the idea you have for the prison as a system without reflecting on what is or should be the main purpose of the prison system. What do we want from the prisons? Is it most important to deter, or is the goal to create a better society for everyone? Can the goal of a peaceful society be better achieved in other ways than through deterrence? Because surely that is the goal? Do you think deterrence works? And what about the inmates - how many of them do you think are the result of never having a chance in life - which you so correctly point out is a problem in other parts of the world. I am a former teacher, and understand that the world outside Norway and Europe is different, but what you have to ask yourself is whether changes to a society can happen without going into all aspects of society and making changes, including the prison system. Norwegian prisons have not always been like this. As mentioned in the video, the process of changing the system began in the 80s/90s after two employees were killed by the inmates. Back then, Norway had a very high recidivism rate, 70-80% if I remember correctly. I used to think like you, but I don't anymore. Norway (and other countries in Europe with similar systems) is doing something right here, and more countries should learn from it. Norwegian prisons are otherwise not full of mentally ill people. Here, such people are not sentenced to prison, but to psychiatric treatment in their own institutions. And yes, everyone will receive the same treatment in prison, including the ethnically Norwegian man who killed 77 people in one day in Norway in 2011, including many children. It is true that he cannot be kept in a regular ward for reasons of his own safety. Therefore, he is alone with the employees, and they are constantly being turned around because the man has such twisted ideas. He is otherwise sentenced to detention, so I don't think the likelihood of him ever getting out is high. It is also important to remember what was said - look beyond the facilities. They are not the most important thing, and not all Norwegian prisons are like this one, which functions as a showcase. It is a relatively new building that will last for many decades, and must therefore maintain a standard that will be good enough even in fifty years. The recidivism rate applies to all of Norway, not just this prison, so change can be created without a building mass like this. It is also worth noting that there are inmates from all over the world in Norwegian prisons, and those who work in the system say that there is no difference in where in the world the inmates come from. They react more or less equally to the treatment they receive in prison, regardless of where they come from. I would hope that the aim of the prison system should be to reduce crime in society, because then you create fewer victims. If you can manage to prevent people from returning to prison it is because they actually changed when they were in there. You go to the heart of the problem by changing the person you send out of prison instead of thinking you can change anything by beating people into being good citizens. In addition, if you manage to create tax payers out of ex-criminals, perhaps the cost of treating them as human beings is not as great as it would be if they repeatedly returned to a system that did nothing but create monsters. Changes cannot happen overnight, but you have to start somewhere. In all countries there are different inmates in prisons. Start with those who are not harming others before they are destroyed by the system - or start with those who have reached an age where they realize that violence does not solve anything. Let the other inmates see that it pays to resolve conflicts without violence, and make the changes over a longer period of time. If society is freed from an enormous amount of repeat criminals, many problems will automatically resolve themselves over time.
@ahkkariq7406 Yes. I am a bit disappointed in this way of thinking. It's a reason why norway works better than the usa as the example in this video. I am very proud of being a norwegian and I feel incredibly sad about other countries that don't get treated well in the prison system. Everyone should be treated as human beings. I loved how you described how prison should work as something that makes our society better. For what in the world is the reason for locking someone up ang get treated bad and sent out again? I really don't think they go outside and think ahh let's be nice from now on. I really have never understood why they have a prison at all if it dosnt serve any purpose on making criminals better. It's like they just freeze them and heat them up again when they let them out until they catch them again and freeze them again. It's no point?? 😅
To answer your comment, I don't see how our comments are different. I said that this prison system won't work if the country doesn't change. That's the summary. It doesn't matter how well you treat a criminal in prison, if he leaves and can't find a job, can't earn money and can't afford food, he will go back to his life of crime. You guys are just so used to eating every day to understand what my point is
I seem to recall that they will be locked in their cells when they are supposed to be locked in but during the time when they are free to roam the facility, they can lock the doors to their cells from other prisoners.
Paul, in Norway, losing your freedom IS THE punishment. In Norway, prisoners are not be punished even more in prison, as an addition to the deprivation of liberty. The idea that prisoners should be punished IN prison, as an addition to the incarceration, that we do not have here in Norway. That way of thinking is humanistic and is the key to low recidivism rates One important point is that all prisoners get out from prison at one point in the future. Then we in society should ask ourselves: What type of neighbor do we want? One who is reintegrated, or one who is as bad as when he was imprisoned - or maybe even worse?
I think I'm being misunderstood, based on what I'm reading in the comments. I understand and respect the idea of fixing the broken, and I said that many times throughout this video, including in my final thoughts. My only question is, how does this type of prison avoid people from committing crimes in the first place? Losing your freedom? Most criminals don't care about that, and they will care even less when their imprisonment is in what looks like a better living condition than they currently have. It works for Norway because Norway's quality of life is so high standard that this "beautiful" prison or the idea of going to this prison is unattractive enough, but that's not the case in other parts of the world. You may not like this, but when Brazil's armed forces were in the streets, the crime hit a record low, and they weren't taking people to prison... I'm not condoning it, but it was effective. In fact, crimes inside the favelas are very low due to the threat of drug lords punishing thieves and their families. That's the reality of Brazil. Don't get me wrong, I would love for Brazil to be like Norway, but the questions that I raised during this video of how Norway would tackle these issues, still stands and goes unanswered. Replies in the comments are just focusing on the benefits of the program, focusing on the good things that I already agreed with in the video itself.
@@NordicReactions It doesn't stop them from committing crimes in the first place. A hypothetical life sentence, death sentence or horrible conditions in other countries prisons doesn't stop people from committing crimes there either. But if you treat people in prisons like animals your reincarnation rate will be much higher than if you treat them as people. If you strip away their possibility to rehabilitate and reform, take away their right to vote, take away the possibility to get a decent job, you will have a much higher reincarnation rate than if you properly prepare them and give them a decent chance when they get out. People will always do stupid stuff, it's how you handle that and move forward that matters.
Hi Paul. The answer to your question is this: Yes. It is the loss of freedom that acts as a deterrent. It is important to clarify that Halden Prison is the exception in Norway, not the rule. Most prisons in Norway do not have the same standard. A person who is convicted doesn't know where he ends up. He can end up in Ullersmo county prison (Near Oslo Gardermoen airport), for example, or even worse, Oslo prison (old prison built after english model). These two prisons are far inferior in standard. Or he can come to Halden prison, the prison we see in the video. But no one knows that in advance. So, it's not like people here think: "Now I'm going to do something criminal, and then I'll end up in Halden prison". What would Norway do if we had the same problems as in Brazil? - Well, we know the answer to that. We went from a prison system that was quite similar to other countries in Europe, to what we have in Norway now. It has produced good results. Norway now has the lowest recidivism rates for the whole world. It shows that even with a high standard in some of the prisons here, no one will commit a crime to return to prison. So, the problems you Paul describe for Brazil can be solved. But it doesn't start with the prison policy. It starts with politics in general, in all areas. That means building a welfare society where everyone in the country is lifted up. Not so many decades ago, Norway was once one of Europe's poorest countries. Then oil was found in the North Sea. Instead of the profits going to the richest, Norway has used oil money to build welfare. The prison policy is no more than a subordinate piece. The bigger pieces in this puzzle are building welfare - for everyone. Not to have a system where the richest get richer and the poorest remain very poor. That was the way we got where we are now, here in Norway. It took time, and it's not a quick fix. --- With regards, and btw: Love your work. @@NordicReactions
I understand what everyone here is saying and I agree with it, what I'm finding difficult to understand is, at what point did I say treating people badly in prison is the solution? Aren't we all speaking about the same thing here? I feel like we are all on the same side but you guys seem to think I'm against reform. I'm really confused reading the comments. I agreed to everything that is good for reform, the only issue I had which I thoroughly explained is that I don't think the prisons should offer more comfort to criminals than the citizens. Criminals SHOULD NOT live in better conditions than the hard-working citizen. You won't ever convince me otherwise. However, this isn't the prison's problem to solve, it's the country's. That's why I shared the context of Brazil's issues, for you guys to see what reality it like in Brazil right now. We have a huge gap of inequality in Brazil, look up "paraisopolis vs morumbi" and look at google images. On one side of the wall, rich on the other poor. It doesn't matter to some criminals if they are going to lose their freedom, if they can get into the prison we saw in this video, it's a win for them.
@@NordicReactions wrong, it’s not a win for them. Loosing one’s freedom is bad no matter what. Documentary made by Finnish YLE called Breaking the cycle in English, Fra Halden til Attica in Norwegian, 2017 can be streamed several places. In this documentary, Karianne Wolfer, Director of correctional practices in North Dakota state penitentiary says: many people think if you create an environment that’s pleasant and not punitive, people don’t want to leave. If you make a tougher prison, people won’t come back. We know that’s not true. The hardest prisons have the highest recidivism rates. What we encounter… maybe it comes down to this: in a class with new officers I showed a video from Halden prison. One of the staff members in the class said to me: I get this… it makes sense. Yeah, ok… but… if you were the victim of a really heinous crime, how would you feel about the perpetrator of that crime living in such a luxurious setting? My response was: I would be pissed off. But what is that when I say “I’m pissed off”? The class takes a minute and answers “it’s a feeling. It’s an emotion.” I say: that’s right. We are not the department of emotional responses. We are the department of corrections and rehabilitation. Also check out on YT “The human prison system in Norway presented to staff in Attica prison.” From around 50 minutes where he explains the concept of “leave.” It is about letting the prisoner gradually get used to the society outside of the prison where the paste is faster and the noises are higher than in a prison. One of the things he says is: we had a prisoner who killed three people, who wanted to abort his first supervised leave, because he couldn’t cope with it.
It's a fine balance -giving a punishment that fits the crime, which is what we call the perception of the victims and their families in the aftermath. However, cruelly punishing someone is also the main factor leading to recidivism. The question becomes whether it is more important to let victims have some sort of justice or revenge, or if its to reform the criminal to become a productive member of society post punishment, rather than a continued liability. It should also teach us something about humanity and forgiveness.
I think harsh prison conditions can actually backfire. When prisons are too uncomfortable, inmates may end up resenting the system and seeing themselves as victims, which distracts them from reflecting on their crimes. In humane prisons like in Norway, where inmates are treated with dignity, there’s more room for genuine self-reflection. The contrast between how they themselves are treated and what they did to end up there can lead to real remorse, rather than them just feeling sorry for themselves. Furthermore, there’s no punishment more painful than truly understanding the harm one has caused, and to have to live with that guilt. Rehabilitation forces people to confront their actions, which can be a powerful form of punishment in itself.
If you treat people as criminals they will stay criminals I can't understand why people have to treat them as criminals for them to get their punishment that way of thinking ruins humankind. It is always a reason why you end up as a criminal. The biggest reason is bad teaching from parents or they end up in the bad group of people. To unlearn the bad you can't keep punishing people you have to interact and learn them to be good people, because others failed them. They are still humans. You have no idea what they go through and how they feel remorse. It's stupid thinking they have to be punished to see that. People who are psykopaths with no emotions are not allowed in such prisons. We have a lot of prisons in norway, and they are locked up. It is a reason why we have such a good country because this prison work. I am so dissapointed in the USA and other countries that dosnt see "criminals" as people.
What is the whole point in sending people to prison for a year or more and being treated bad and come out. Do you really belive they will start being nice and treat other good??? It is not like they go and give flowers to every inmate every day and is nice when they are rude they get concevences if they do something wrong.
You can treat a criminal as humanely as possible, but if they leave prison and have nothing to eat, no jobs and no money, they will go back to the life of crime. Even if they do manage to get a job, if they have an untreated anger or drug issue. They will go back to being aggressive. It's not hard to understand, Norway is a great country, you guys have government benefits and support. Do you know how the government helped us during covid? The president said "people are going to die, what can I do about it? Cry?" The summary of this video is that I said it works for Norway, but I don't see how it would work for us.
Let's try it another way, why would people want to avoid jail if it looks better than your current living conditions? Losing freedom? Many people don't care about that or don't mind spending 10 years in prison. On top of that, it's a comfortable living to the point that they won't even remember they are locked up because of the normalization? Sounds like a bargain. I'm not questioning what is done in the prison, I'm questioning what's done to make prison seem unattractive to make people think twice about going there in the first place. I have already agreed in the video that re-education is important, and this is the right way. What I'm concerned about is what makes prison seem unattractive in Norway? Jail should not look better than your own house, which is the case here. This prison looks better than some houses people live in Brazil.
It's fine not to agree, but I think we are talking about two different things. You are speaking about reintegration while I'm questioning prevention. In terms of reintegration, I agree 100% and I said that in the video. Correction officers need to correct, not punish or mistreat prisoners. What I'm saying is that prisons should NOT look more attractive than people's current living conditions. This type of prison provides better housing, better food, and better safety than people's normal life. So how can criminals get an updgrade in quality of life for committing a crime? It just doesn't compute. It works for Norway because living standards are high, that's not the case in many parts of Brazil.
A cage is still a cage. Your freedom is taken away if you go to prison. That in itself is punishment enough, imo. If you then get help, educated and 'reprogrammed', so you can get a job, pay taxes, and contribute to society when you get out, that will benefit everyone. The US is run by capitalism, and when money rule, humanity is not a part of the equation. Also, Americans are very focused on revenge, not rehabilitation. It's just sad... ❤🇧🇻
It's weird that there are still people who don't realize that because of pandemic. 3-4 years ago, you really wanted to go see someone you love like your grandparents but you couldn't. Do you remember how bad it felt?
Regarding easy to handle prisoners and not seeing them as violent. There are definitely dangerous prisoners in Norway as well. Again I feel it falls back to treating them as humans. They are also heavily incentivized to behave because Halden prison (as seen in this video) and Bastoy prison (basically what many would describe as an island resort) are not the only type of prisons we have. If you are not deemed fit for such a lax prison you will be moved to a more traditional prison environment where you are locked in a cell and allowed specific times of the day to visit a yard and stuff.
Okay, so Norway also agrees that this type of prison that we saw in the video isn't fit for all criminals. Norway also has a traditional style prison that works for other prisoners. That makes more sense to me. Just to be clear, I do think all prisons should have reform and treat inmates as humans, I never said otherwise. In the U.S., some white-collar criminals or minor offenders get hooked on drugs or become more aggressive, more dangerous, and more broken after being in jail. That just makes things worse.
I saw a Norwegian prision in a Netflix series with Raphael Rowe. (Inside the world's toughest prisons, I recommend this series). I love how they treat people. Dont get me wrong, they did things that arent right, but give them this treatment is shocking for them and most of all scary. (edit: its the same prison, but still the series is chefs kiss) I wont call they live in comfort. If you got your whole life full of punishment and now you get treated as you deserve, believe me that is completely not comfortable. Its shocking. You have ofcourse super bad people, but most people commit crimes because thats all they 'know'. That last group, for them, this is not comfortable. You have no idea how fast a feeling of regret kicks in with this treatment. Honest question; Why do you think its always for the best to punish people who did make 'wrong' decisions?
I don't think I said it was best to punish people, but I do think people need to feel and realize they are guilty of a crime in order to understand what they did was wrong. Whether that's done through education or legal punishment, I don't have an issue, as long as the message gets through and people think twice before committing another crime. That also doesn't mean they should be mistreated, they should still be treated as people and taught the correct way. The thing about comfort is subjective, I'm against giving criminals a better quality of life than the average hard-working citizen. As I mentioned in the video, I believe Norway has such a high quality of living that this prison looks bad to them while in Brazil it looks like a 4-star hotel. Long story short, it looks like prisoners in Norway are living a better life than 30% of Brazilians (who live under the poverty line) But I have no issue with Norway, it works for them! 😊
@@NordicReactions I see your point of view completely. You come from a whole different country and I have no clue how its is to live in Brazil. So I can see why you say its more comfort. On google it says its very effective and I am happy that it works. Unfortunately they didnt talk about 'worse' cases. Maybe they have another prison for that? BTW, I am sorry if I missunderstood you. I dont like to twist someone's word. My english isnt great but I understand most of what you say. I learn a lot English from you
Nice! Did you know my channel started as a way for my English students to practice their English listening and comprehension skills? 😁 so I'm happy to know it's helping!
They mighty be living nice. But they are still in prison. They can't leave, that is their punishment. You can't go to your daughter's wedding, or your mother's funeral. You have very limited options to communicate with anybody on the outside, no internet (only for education), no cell phone. People didn't like being in quarentin for a few months, and then they could still leave their house. They text, call, have zoom meetings. Imagine not being able to leave your house for years. When the clock turns 20:00 you have to go to your room and can't come out until morning, every day. We got nice prisons, it's still not nice to stay there. P.S. He didn't have a good lawyer to get transfer to Norway. We got good people working in the embassy.
Most prisons in Norway is not like the prison in Halden. It is only a few who come to Halden after they have show that they want to be good people and have the trust. If you run away from this prison you will never come back there and have to stay in a normal prison. In this prison they can get an education and live a normal life after prison instead of going back to the old life. This man that was transfer from Brazil kill a man down there. Norway respect human rights and the prisons in Brazil is not a human place. So Norway government always try to bring people from Norway home så they can be in a human prison here in Norway.
Sadly, this video no longer represent reality. The thoughts and ideas of what the D.O.C should be doing still remains in the education of correctional officers, however a lack of funding over a decade has left prisons lacking funds for personel and rehabilitation. The government soon found out that the model presented in Halden prison (former flagship) cost alot of money, and it is the only prison of its kind. New prisons are built much more cost effective and along the line of the Philadelphia model. Almost every prison in Norway is now short staffed, leading to a higher level of conflict between inmates and officers. They really gave it shot for a while there tho.....
In short, Brazil is a shit nation where law abiding citizens are treated like criminals and therefor you cant have nice prisons... Great logic. /sarcasm Here is how I see it. I was a shock trooper sergeant in the military for 2 years, afterwards worked over a decade with emergency security. My experience with criminals were that 80% of them are a product of their environment, aka more wannabe than anything else and would most likely not commit crime if they had a decent life with a normal job and living wage. 15% were addicts fueling their addiction with petty theft and would instantly surrender (x amount of crimes added together to send these people to rehab for longer) and the last 5% could be considered a mix between really hostile or dangerous people. Note; that not everyone that has threaten me with weapons would necessarily be in that 5% category. Point is, in that reality. It makes no sense to have a prison sentence that focus more on the punishment than getting these folks on the correct path. It is actually harder to find great shock troopers (nice people that can carry a gun, do all the training and blow people away when needed without going crazy or being crazy) than there is to find redeemable criminals. And therefor this makes more sense, in my view. Norway has all of the "types" of criminals. Including gang leaders, drug issues etc, but even then. Most people are not tough guys... This is a prison for criminals, not mental patients. Super crazy criminals get something called section 8. We have allot of different types of prisons for "outliners" or none citizens.
Not every prison in Norway is like this and not every innmate get theese threatments. But people who are sane and want to change get this trust and help. Some people are locked in in other ways. The mass murderer anders breivik is locked up and has no contact with others. He sued the state because of it. But lost. Most prisoners in Norway will be let out someday so we should help change them to be great people for us and for them. 30 years is max sentence in Norway. But if your insane or a danger to sucioty you can be locked up forever, but you get a chance to be reevaluated every 5 years after max sentence
