This was enjoyable for entertainment value but I’m actually not clear how the rope was retrievable (as mentioned at the end). I would really like to have seen a thorough step-by-step with explanations on why things are being done that way, alternatives with pros and cons, and common mistakes.
That video would be a week long! There are several companies in the U.S. Southwest that provide in-person instructional courses (I own one). There is also a great on-line course you can find if you cant make it down here :)
In the particular system shown, the figure 8 setup acts as both a lowering system and a knot block. The carabiner that was attached back to the anchor is just to protect against somebody repelling on the wrong strand, the *last* repeler *must* remember to remove that carabiner so that the rope can be pulled down from below.
110% - probably hard to do mid-way down a waterfall, but would love to see the techniques more in detail. Great stuff tho Ryan, really loving your content!
As a European Canyoning Guide it's nice to see that he uses slightly different techniques, but that the basis is all the same! Nice video, I enjoyed seeing you try canyoning and perhaps bringing it to a wider public!
So a big concern with canyoneering is rope abrasion. There's a few narrow studies on how different sheath materials hold up. Would love to see some ropes with different materials pull tested over a nice corner of rock or something.
Retrieval is actually really easy! You block the rope against the anchor, for example with the tied off figure of 8 like he does in the video, or with a (non-releasable) clove hitch on a carabiner, etc etc. Then only one side of the rope is blocked (rappel strand), and the other side is your pull side which you can easily pull down once your weight is off of the rappel strand
@@MontieCanyoning it looked like he clipped into the chain. I assume that is removed for the last person down the line to make it retrievable. I do the same kind of setup with canopy anchors in a tree.
@@woodpeckerarborist Yes exactly, the clipping into the chain is in case someone makes the mistake of taking the wrong side of the rope. As the last person is going down you remove this so that the block is one sided. Arborism and canyoning have a few techniques in common as well!
Hi! I have a fun question / test idea: Paragliding harnesses carabiners need to be replaced every 5 years. I've heard it's due to microfractues / stress fatigue. I know you have some paragliding friends. Can you ask them to give you their old carabiners and see if they are weaker than new carabiner / MBS?
@@BenjaminLovelady the Fatigue Stress in PG apperently is different as you dont' have a few 0 to 1-2kn shocks but more like thousands of 25-100kg load cycles. PG Carabiners are tested for different load cycles than climbing ones and usually climbing ones shouldn't be used for paragliding (some exeptions like the Grivel Plume are certified for both (and maybe Edelrids new Ease which looks like thier 19G)). That what people are thaught and there are examples where apperently older carabiners snapped under very little load without amy signs of wear.
Very cool stuff! I'm extremely familiar with class A (dry) and B (still water) canyons around SE Utah, but class C (flowing water) is foreign to me. Things like releasable carabiner blocks are still commonly used out here, but they're not really necessary like in the canyon you went through. It's funny to see people around me with whistles dangling from their helmets when they can communicate easily with their voices. Clearly a whistle is useful when there's rushing water. I would love to see a video on techniques and gear used in class A and B canyons. Just like there's many facets of climbing, there's major differences in how you traverse different types of canyons. A primer on Critr type devices would be a good start.
You should look into releasable blocks for any type of canyon, not just class C. I'm a fan of 8-blocks. They're super easy to rig and have gotten me out of a number of jams effortlessly.
Hi guys. Finally How not 2 canyon!!!! I was expecting this a lot. I am certified canyoning guide and have 10years experience in canyoning here in small country of Montenegro (Europe). It will be nice to see you testing some techniques that we use here in Europe... Feel free to contact me for canyoning tips and tricks.... Keep up the good work!
Would love to see some specific knot tests like the Munter Mule Overhand knot which is a knot used so that you can potentially lower someone who got stuck on the repel. Bowline tagline release would also be an interesting one to test. What pressures are involved to release ect I know you guys tested the fiddle stick break strength, but how about release strength when under tension vs not when under tension ect Canyoning specific ropes and their strength, esp the 8mm dyneema ones since they are becoming more popular Break tests of a few canyoning specific descenders, Petzl Pirana for example
Great video. Amazing to see canyoning making its debut on this channel as a canyoner myself. I am a canyoner in Australia, and I would like to see some specific gear tested on this channel. Personally, I would love to see how strong the figure 8 tie-off is under load and the different methods for tying it. Also, it would be interesting to see under what forces the sharpish lock-off horn on the Petzl pirana damages/breaks the rope. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks for another great video.
I really like the visual/auditory aesthetics of this video. I have never seen anything that made me want to canyon before, but this did. The main thing I would like to see tested are knots in those various high-tenacity ropes that canyoneers use, although I have an alternate motive, I think I might want to use such ropes for rescue work.
You know, I've never slacklined or climbed... Honestly, don't ever plan to, as my 34yr old self is highly allergic to heights. But, I have found myself binge watching this entire channel the past couple weeks and find it so entertaining and fascinating.
Nice video! One important thing that people getting into canyoning don't realise is the commitment factor. Once you pull down the first abseil, often the only way out is to keep going down. It's very difficult (often impossible) to climb out of a canyon at a random point. Make sure you have enough rope and expendable gear to get down the canyon. Anchors may be damaged or missing so take a few wires / cams, a few pitons or a hand bolting kit. Hopefully you won't have to use them, but it can mean the difference between life and death. Spare slings are a must. Study the maps and know potential exit spots. Take some emergency high-sugar food / drink. Hypothermia hits quickly and often the only thing that will help is some sugar. The usual hypothermia treatments don't work in a permanently cold and wet environment. Other tips include double bagging (put things in lightweight waterproof bags and then in a dry bag), correct footwear is critical (wet rock is slippery!), take a waterproof sleeping bag if you're doing multiday canyons (trust me, a water-logged sleeping bag is basically useless, and really heavy!). Most important rule: If you aren't really experienced and highly prepared for the worst, always have a guide.
SUPER excited that you're doing more canyoneering videos. There are many techniques that transfer from climbing over to canyoneering but there are so many MORE techniques (and refinements) that are specific to canyoneering that are hard to find on the internet. One thing that'd be interesting to test would be the stone knot (using a locker) in isolating rap strands, as well as improperly rigging the stone knot (e.g. not clipping the locker back up to the top rop strand(s). Also, how much force do sand traps, water traps, and pot shots actually hold?
Now that I would have loved to have done years ago. Back in my Boy Scout days we use to go to Sliding Rock in the Pisgah National Forest. Sliding down that huge boulder was a blast.
One thing that would be good to discuss is the different types of canyons and their classification/ratings. We had to rescue someone because they were used to dry canyons or those with standing water. They hadn't realized how much flowing water can change the whole experience. On the flipside though, I'd imagine that they know how to deal with potholes and the ethical problems around soft sandstone. Also, something to consider talking about would be the hazards associated with flash floods and the difficulties in escape/rescue. Great video as always!
Love your video very precise on how you test thing and sill explaining concreat problemes. Just a list of subjects that would interest me : - detect unsafe anchor and (light) solutions - rope abrasion - compare disengageable système (on a 8 attend the anchor). In some case, they stay stuc in situation - Swimming in living Water with harness and Back-pack
Wow. This is a great intro. I had no idea this was what canyoning was all about when I asked about it some months back. As Colin Watt says "..really like to have seen a thorough step-by-step with explanations on why things are being done that way, alternatives with pros and cons..." Keep it coming.
Very nice video overview of moving water canyoning in a very beautiful canyon. Brent took you on a sweet section with a lot of cool techniques. It takes time and friends experimenting to find which slides and jumps are clean. Your first time in a canyon you can't risk doing those cool slides and jumps unless you have a guide that knows whether they are clean or not. Busting an ankle or leg in such a location means a big rescue effort. A lot of viewers are asking you to test the strength of various rappel and anchor setups, but I think that is misplaced focus. We are just rappelling and lowering, so the forces are not very big. The more important issues are more subtle, rope abrasion, stickiness of shoes in different environments, rope management. Enjoyed the video very much.
Love the video! You nailed the description at the beginning and I loved it. Could you strength test webbing and knot blocks after some good water, sun, and sandpaper weathering? Also test some of the canyon specific rappel devices for strength as they wear out from sandstone dust covered ropes? Thanks much for the canyon channel, it's my favorite hobby and I am stoked to see what you do here.
Wicked!! love it :-) The collaboration idea is great! When you do get into the testing stuff, id love to see it edited in with the entertainment and technique stuff too; big mix of the 3, so its not just all break tests, or only entertainment (i.e. would have loved to see you out sailing with old mate on the HowNot2 Sail vid too, not just testing his gear... really immersing us into it! Love your channel man, thank you!!!
I’d love to see you do break tests on worn descenders. Canyoneers have different ideas of when to retire a descender. Some retire at 30% wear while other may wear them down to 50%. If you’re interested, I’m sure I could help arrange getting worn descenders sent to you.
Finally the content my canyon-livin ass is waiting for Edit: and great work with the audio, considering you're feet away from a god dang river the whole time!
I'm intrigued by the shoes, actually... I live by a lot of lakes, rivers, streams, and waterfalls and know how slick the rock gets... I'd like to know what makes good vs not good shoes.
Take these “canyon shoes” with a grain of salt. Bestard shoes, Adidas hydro lace, and the defunct (but beloved) 5.10 canyoneers; they suck in my opinion because they all have “water shoe” tread which is not aggressive enough. You are better avoiding the “i’m a canyoneer” footwear and going with more aggressive and lightweight trail hikers.
Depends on what you looking for! Canyoning shoes are rather specific and specialized, but excel mostly in exactly what you say: grip on wet rock due to e.g. soft rubber and specific profiles. In this respect they are better than pretty much any normal hiking shoe. However they have a very different fit (often made for use with neoprene socks), and are not great for anything else than walking in rivers or maybe rafting etc.
You will find that most footwear is terrible for canyoning as they become very slippy on the wet rocks. I have been canyoning in Scotland for 30 plus years and have used every sort of footwear. I have to say that you want boots as this gives more ankle support and protection from rocks clipping your ankle bone when walking in the shallow rocky sections. The grip of the old 5/10s are second to non and the Bestards are nice and lightweight. Seland boots are to heavy and the grip is to aggressive. But If you want to kill your self then use running trainers.
@@ratherbyexploring4898 I tend to agree with you on the grip levels I do not rely on my hydro's giving me more grip. The only reason I went for Hydro's after a couple of canyons is the construction of the shoe, there is less (still some) water exchange and such less cold feet. But like you said: Get a couple of neoprene socks and some high! trail shoes and you should be fine. Leave the running shoes at home though, cause you don't want to bust an ankle between the stones...
@@ratherbyexploring4898 the grip on those shoes are designed to not slip on wet rock. Grip on the approach to the canyon or in the exit is another story, but they are good enough for that in my experience.
Like the different content. Though I will likely never have the opportunity to do this, definitely something to add to the bucket list. Without this channel and videos, not sure I would have ever come across Canyoneering.
It will be very interesting to measure the force of guided rappel setup, during the setup and while someone is rappelling. It is a technique to avoid water obstacle during rappek
It'd be fun to test sand traps, potshots, cairn anchors, Imlay canyon pack's handle strength (we yank on them with full weight for pack tosses etc), and explain piranas, critrs, sqwurels, z rigging etc., test triple clove vs regular clove binder blocks. Some of these partially because it'd be funny to watch you have to do these.
I like that you’re branching out.. however, i think doing so will require more production value to cover these new topics. You’ve gone into ultra detail on slack line and the strength/breaking of gear. I like the amount of detail you’ve gone through on slackline and gear strength. Hopefully you can figure out how to show that well and with good audio while in the midst of a raging river (much bigger challenge I think). Would like to see each of these become a much larger series of videos instead of one or two vid segments that are just brief overviews. Example: types of rivers, time of year, jumping beta, full gear sets, full detailed rigging of rap set ups, how set ups are retrieved. Not sure if you have more planned but just wanted to give some “hopefully” constructive feedback.
Being a surfer and a climber this looks totally fun every minute of it, now only if there was a river wave to surf! The retrieval system would be cool to see, and some more of the gear and how its used.
yeah, I think a series of short focused tips videos would be awesome -- tied together with some inside jokes from your canyoneering trip and the story of you and the canyoneers meeting/deciding to do this
If you like to kayak but you don't want to paddle this looks like the thing to do. Seriously though I had no idea this sport even existed and fit the description of being a slow hiker, loving the going down part of climbing, and would prefer open air and swimming to holding my breath squeezing myself underground. Most of the steep rivers here have features similar to this and now I'm definitely wanting to learn to navigate some of the bigger ones.
lol, that's a brilliant idea for a mic! Not gonna lie, I might steal that stick microphone idea for when we start doing introductions on our climbing videos. Well, after i get the hang of video editing software... lol.
Sick video. I'd love to see the system Brent used for lowering out rope while you were on rappel. It almost looks like the rope was just fed straight through the rappel ring? I'd also love to see some action in a slot canyon. As someone who learned to rappel as you would in a climbing environment, the three (class B) canyons in SE Utah I've descended into we used the double-strand, autoblock method you warned against; we really didn't know any better. These "live action" videos are fantastic because we get an intuitive understanding of all these systems and hazards we read about but don't end up seeing until they happen. Thanks for the quality content, you're doing great!
The system is quite easy: you feed the rope through the anchor, then you attach the figure of 8 not on the rappel side of the anchor, but on the retrieval side. In the normal "alpine way" of using the figure of 8 as he does in the video it will be pulled against the anchor once someone puts weight on the rappel strand. If you don't hold on to the rope of block it (like he does with the knots), the rope will just fly through the figure of 8 and the anchor with a little friction. If you hold the rope, all the friction will let you easily lower a person, similar to how it works with the hms knot or any others rappel device, just pressed against the anchor.
I'd like to see a video discussing different anchor setups when when or when not to use them, what anchor is your 'go to' method, and what situation that anchor is not suitable. Also ascending and lanyard setups, I noticed a toothed ascender on each of the green lanyards, plus the short tail seemed to have something too. Thanks!
The canyoneer 2 are the best shoes that I used for canyoning by far and after the Guide tennie water. Next year La Sportiva launch a new canyoning shoes.
I would love to see a comparison of the strength of different retrievable rappels. I know a lot of methods exist of various utility and safety, actual data would be super interesting.
Amazing video, been waiting for this one for long time, i'd be nice to test mbs on a few decenders, maybe check the load of a person rappeling on a full wet rope.
Can you do videos with more advanced maneuvers. Stuff like multi point traverse, or multi anchor rappel, extend rope manouver, raplleling a tense rope etc...
Can you do a few drop tests comparing semi static ropes and 'superstatic' static ropes. Showing the difference of the impact force on the body would be very interesting. Getting smashed in white water on a slackish rope and being pushed over the lip of a pool does happen. An often overlooked issue as we move to dyneema/polyester superstatic ropes.
This was pretty cool. I normally just hike through forests and trails and admire the waterfalls/rivers. I never really thought about descending the hike VIA the water route though. It seems like it could be a lot of fun but definitely something that you need the right equipment to do properly.
Awesome video - thanks! I learned to canyoneer using a Hydrobot, made by Kong, as a descender - it allows you to get on and off the rope without having to undo your carabiner. I've never seen anyone using one in a video. I'm curious about the pros and cons of different descending devices, including the Hydrobot. Maybe a topic for a video?
Test the strength of tubular webbing in different configurations, especially the courtesy anchors. Test, blocks with the popular systems like figure 8s, totem, etc. Also strength of rope while lowering a heavy weight over an edge, and also the strength of a hauling system in the canyon. A lot of stuff, thank you for the video.
As a surfer who has been bounced over (and under) reefs, this looks horrible. At least a wave will stop for a few seconds before the next one hits. Getting trapped by a waterfall or rapids is just terrifying.
Hey, love the videos. Psyched your testing canyoneering stuff. As a professional canyoneering guide in colorado and Utah, there are a couple systems that I use, that I would love to know the strength of. The biggest one that comes to mind is the macrome. If you willing to test it, I would love to send you a video showing you how to tie it. Let me know.
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Regarding knowing where to jump, where not to, I`d venture that this has be checked everytime you went down some route, specially if the last time one was there was in a previous season. Watercourses in mountainous terrain change a lot from season to season.
I remember Brent giving me shit for making all of these mistakes last time I talked to him. I didn't drown, but boy was it not fun to untangle my rope in a swirling pothole!
I realise it is a lot of hard work behind the scenes, late night editing video etc, but after seeing how much fun you are having with canyoning, skydiving etc, I've changed my mind... I think I really hate you now ;) Similar to caving without a headlamp? Wha?? When you show me canyoners going back *up* the river and jumaring *up* long pitches with heavy bags full of rope, then I'll agree with you :)
awesome, add footage from the trip, or future ones for the breaking videos. Break stuff and tell us how it's important. Also, if you don't break test a wet-suit, why are we even here?
