I think GW accidentally scored a minor win by having Khorne Daemons be the only ones, thus far, to make the transition to Combat Patrol. Because they ended up being the only one of the four "subfactions" that's actually playable. Well, other than Flamer spam, and as we've seen it doesn't need to be Chaos Daemons for that.
They put all their Flamers into the AoS Tzeentch and Tzangor box, which is why they(flamers) were conveniently sold out everywhere for the last few months.
Good review. As a Competitive Slaanesh Daemons player (itc #1 for the last 6+months) they did make our Greater Daemons a little tougher with daemon saves, but still only T7, and because they are 20 wounds now they can't hide like they used to... It forces us to put them in the warp to manifest, but then you lose all that speed that you're supposed to have. The points costs are awful when you compare even internally between Daemonettes and Seekers of Slaanesh. Daemonettes for 120 points are 10 models/wounds at T3 and 41 attacks at AP -2. For 100 points you get 5 Seekers/10 wounds at T4 with 21 attacks at -2 and 10 attacks at AP 0.... Why would you take Seekers? They are the same number of wounds, die just as easy as t3 to t4 is a very minor difference and they have less attacks with worse AP. Sure they are faster, but they aren't going to kill if they charge and they will just die when they get shot. Sad times. I won more events with mono Slaanesh Daemons before the new book came out, even going 4-2 at LVO last year, only losing to 2 top 20 placed players including Jack Harpster. Everything is over costed.
Just stumbled across this podcast and love the format and discussion/rant. A great piece to just listen to while building and painting, keep up the great work! Also, the art for both of you is amazing, did you guys get them commissioned and if so, who is the artist?
(Brad here) We use art GW owns because we're way too poor to commission art and GW can shut us down whenever they want anyway. This way we're at least not stealing fan art. My art is from the current Thousand Sons codex, Eric's is from I think 8th edition GK? Our video editor ran them through some processes in photoshop to make them less detailed and more abstract.
I've been saying this since I started playin with Daemons as my first army back at the end of 7th edition. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this thought process.
I don’t hate it as much, and it does have some ideas, but they definitely went too far into the “buffs for mono” direction rather then “less efficient if mixed”, and it could be laid out better. Maybe extra warp dice for mono or 2 less for mixed? Should atleast be able to pay 1 CP to retain some of them I like that it is all together (better then bringing 4 books), but, especially running mono there is a lack of units overall, bringing cultists, Tzaangores, Traitor Guard and the future Khorne cultists would help a lot.
in 15:42 is a freakingly loud sound randomly thrown at the viewer. As I was hearing this under headphones, I fucking literaly jumped up and got nearly a stroke by this sound. I thought my house would crumlbe. Please consider to not try to kill me again (soon). Also I will consider to hear you with soundsetting 25% next time. :P
Can’t believe GW miscounted the stratagems. Obviously Khorne has 8, Tzeentch has 9, Nurgle has 7, and Slaanesh has 6. HTF did GW give everyone except Khorne 8?!
Hello I am new and have a question if anybody could answer. I want to build a daemon army, I have purchased some models but upon arrival and inspection I realised that they may not work together. I have brought 1x great unclean one 1x daemon prince 1x pox bringer 1x infernal enrapturess 1x blood master 1x bloodletter unit And the bit that throws me off I was gifted a death guard combat patrol, can I use this in the same list? If so, what disadvantages or advantages does it pose for me. Thanks
To give a MINOR nod to Slaanesh... In 8th they were 7" move, advance and charge. In 9th, boards are smaller and they're at 10" move, no advance/charge. The average advance roll is 3.5.. so with a smaller board, let's call it 3. It's about the same as having an inbuilt 3" advance and charge. It's dumb, there's no flavour, but it IS somewhat equal.
It's not equal, because you forgot the trumpet. 7"+d6+1 is usually (2/3 times) better than 10" and the armies are just as far away from each other as before - 24" or sometimes 18".
Recently did Dark Angels vs Daemons. I lost due to them having 3-5 model Flamers that wrecked everything i had (why these are so powerful is beyond me). Then couldnt use AP at all which was super annoying since i probably couldve taken down several other things. But watching the Warp Storm, we were friends playing but i moved 12" away, and moved up another inch since i had the extra movement in a biker and they let me (im still new and it was the first time playing against Daemons). That was the only thing they used their points on lol The Warp Storm was useless, and yea they had three big characters that were scary with 20 wounds that i just couldnt take down since he pounced my 2 Redemptors second turn. But the Flamers carried the match, the Blue Horrors were weak but my DW Knights fighting them wouldve been annoying after the last turn (turn 3), their bloodletters were easy to wipe out but overall it was fun and just an annoying game overall because the Flamers get to throw like 30 shots EVERYTIME they shot lol
I agree the Daemons Codex could be better but going the AoS route I don't think is the right fix. As a former fantasy player I hate what AoS did with Daemons and honestly this is one reason I jumped into 40k vs playing AoS, because in 40k all the factions remained the same i.e Daemons of Chaos are still Daemons not Disciples of Tzeentch, Nurgle Maggotkin, followers of farts or whatever other stupid title they have come up with.
Oh the Necron comment hit hard... Yeah reanimation protocol sucked so hard and was worthless on Destroyers/Canoptek units, basically just encouraging warrior/immortal spams. Even though I also play GSC i was so annoyed that the banner rule is a better reanimation protocol than anything the Necrons got.
Having Daemonic as a list of rules is not new and is not the most efficient. 20 years ago same rule did almost the same thing and it was explained in a 2 lines sentences The trick here is Daemonic rule is not and should not be hard to remember and understand, but 8th and 9th edition amount of rules over rules over rules give us the fake necessity of needing Clear, point per point, clarifications. The rules are not hard. I don't care if the Tags are 11 words. I don't care if every unit I play has 4 differents IF the game DOESN'T allow to twist, minmax, munchkin, crack and bend rules like these 3 last rulebooks we had
Ah yes, it seems the Warp Storms suffer from a classic balancing issues. Having a means to solve a problem, but not having any problems. So the answer is, of course, not to streamline things by removing the pointless solution, but to just make you worse, so you now have a problem to solve.
Personally I feel like the worst is the Necron codex. The units are way to underpowered, the saves are bad, and all units are way to over costed for how good, or bad they actually are. Deamons are bad. But christ the data-slate barely helped the poor skeleboys.
While I respect people's opinion, there are parts of this that are factually incorrect, and as a Chaos playing vet (first army was Noise Marines) for over 30 years, you've stared not only a gift horse in the mouth, but a trash talked one of the best offerings (if not the best) the faction has ever had.
I have played 4 games with the demons codex all 1250 pts all against the same person playing Nids in all games. So there is a lot of control in the experiment. 1st game 75% Tzeentch 25% Nurgle - win 2nd 75% Nurgle 25% Tzeentch - tie 3rd 100% Khorne - loss.... Bad loss.... 4th 50% Tzeentch 50% Khorne - win I'm not competitive tournament level player, been plaing for a few years, have several armies, watch and understand strats - semi experienced player. Mono faction is not viable. The limited units and special rules penalize mono Deamon. Each Deamon fills a battlefield roll, it's like trying to play an army of all chaos cultists. They do 1 thing good and they have no army wide abilities. With Khorne, there are no objective based units. Who sits on points? No-one, you have to table your enemy. I honestly think that Khorne is the worst as he has the least abilities. Fewest stratagems, no psychic powers to draw from and all of his heralds do the same thing. Tzeentch has 3 different herald buffs. Sure 1 is far better that the other two, but there are options. Khorne has no damage stacking potential. You can make Plague bearers do 4dmg/attack. (can't speak for slaanesh as I haven't played them at all) this whole book is rubish, in my opinion they all need work. I can see flamers getting nerfed because they're being abused then just ignoring everyone else for a few months until the tourney stats show up.
Agree. The mono god factions already suffer badly from just being locked out of meaningfully controlling particular phases, and Khorne has that the worst. Demons tend to be defined by their inadequacy more than other factions, but as power creep has pushed things like IG being able to rarely Melee, Necrons actually being able to get around, Custodes actually getting cheap bodies to park on objectives or tarpit, and so on, the demons have never gotten that love. Khorne still can't magic at all. Nurgle still can't move. Slaanesh still can't shoot. The Daemons either need vast increases to their individual options, a bigger pool of perhaps less good but versatile neutral Daemons to patch those critical holes in their armies, so they aren't just giving up phase control for free in a game where EVERYONE can exploit that
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I think that two potential solutions (at least ones I would like to see) are out each god in its own book or like you said, create a pool of neutral Deamons. Unfortunately they removed furies from the last few codecies, so I don't think that would be likely.
As a mono nurgle player, it feels like they were super terrified about the durable subfaction actually being durable for the points. Plaguebearers are roughly twice as tough now as they were but cost roughly twice as much....so they're really not any tougher than their garbage 8th edition state. And Great Unclean One's just kinda die because the only thing that makes them tough is having a high Toughness trait...but when so much of the game gives you +1 to wound...or flat-out skips the wound roll to begin with...they just die. To basically everything. They're just as tough as the other 3 greater daemons but do significantly less damage with less mobility and a giant fucking base. I dunno. Nurgle feels awful.
as someone that went in with mono khorne, and was considering diving into doing duo khorne/nurgle. seeing the nurgle stuff was so depressing... then seeing that flamers are so damn strong... the daemons are shelved.
@@vice1219 Please go away with that loser attitude. They should all be viable and internally competitive. GW are terrible at balance. This is the problem. There is no disputing this.
How would the "toxic plaguebearer-spam" even work, when Plaguebearers are confined to 10 models per squad? Did GW expect people to bring double Battalions for 12x10 Plaguebearers?
(Brad here) If you notice a few minor editing issues on this episode, sorry in advance. It was kind of a crunch to get this one out on time during a holiday week. Also sorry in advance if you aren't a fan of more negative episodes. I don't want to devolve into ragebait content, but I needed to get this out of my system... This book SUCKS! If for some reason you want more of this topic, I spent about 2.5 hours ranting to Eric originally and there's a longer one hour cut on our audio feeds: poorhammer.libsyn.com/episode-42-dissecting-a-daemonic-disaster
Also, you missed a huge point with dark invigoration, the one troop made to be all round durable, the Plague bearer, isn't affected by it. And why did they nerf disciples of be'lakor...
Yes please. At the very least I wish Troops in the Daemon Codex were considered 'Agents of Chaos' by default for each respective Legion. I'd love to field some Daemonettes in my EC list for fun but taking a CP kick to the balls just to field Troops means 'hell no' to that idea. Sure, I could field a Patrol w/ an HQ and Daemonttes but that starts warping (kek) too much of my list.
Honestly, what I would love is just 3 ENORMOUS codexes, like 3 corebook sized, With each alliance (xenos, chaos, imperium) and that's it, thanks we're done. And while at it, normalize chaos soup, xeno soup and imperial soup
I wonder how busted it would have been to give Nurgle 5+++ vs damage 1 (and mortals). Maybe give them a warp storm power to make that 5+++ vs anything . Anyway, great talk!
As a Ynarri player who fell in love with their fluff I feel your pain. The new codex has them be craftworlds with two squads of harlequin troups. It's incredibly infuriating.
Just finished the video after it popped up in my recomendations tab and I gotta say good job guys, very informative, well spoken and edited, you've earned yourself a sub! keep up the great work
As a Dedicated Chaos player, and lover of Chaos Daemons, I 100% agree with doing Codex Nurgle, with Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons mixed, and so on and so on for each. Imagine how much Codex World Eaters would've benefited from that. They could even say - If your Warlord is a Daemon, Plaguebearers become troops, if your General is an Astartes, Plague Marines become Troops. It'd be so clean and elegant.
I remember back in the 2nd Ed days when daemons were massively powerful - with a high points cost attached. Back then the rules for Daemon armies were that only other Daemon armies could fight against them (in lore these battles were fought in the warp). The points cost for these armies were 100k+ for an "average" battle. It sounds like GW has spent the last 7 editions trying to get Daemon armies to fit where they don't belong, and are fucking it up in a way only GW can.
"Each of these should have 40 Stratagems, like every other Codex." Technically, the book - when taken as a whole - has 30 Stratagems. (I'm counting the 4 Relic strats as 1, obv). You would never run more than 1 god in your army, obviously, but you could. Hence, "Chaos Daemons" is an army with 30 strats. Also, can we just examine the flavor fail of not giving Stratagems to the different gods based on their special numbers? Why doesn't Tzeentch have 9 Stratagems? Why does Khorne have 6 and Slaanesh 8, when their numbers are reversed?
@@aprinnyonbreak1290make it notes, not even full sentences “give ur charge + 2” or something similar. On the other hand, give Tzeentch those bloated rules that ask you 3 conditions, but if you can pull it off you get rewarded a lot “if your blue horrors are exactly 6” away from any enemy unit, and there is no brimstone horror model in your blue horror unit, and you haven’t moved in your movement phase, roll 3d6 for the enemy unit; every 2+ is a d6 mortal wounds”
Guess who is the best shooter! Is it A. A greater daemon of tzeenth B. A space marine terminator C.A tau tank commander longstrike D.A genestealer cowboy.
I'm actually against make god specific books. I want to play daemons. I don't want 4 different armies out of my one. But i can see the appeal people would want for it. The biggest wtf is still the unit cap for troops. like wtf am I suppose to do with 10 daemonettes? they don't hit hard enough to matter and they die to anything.
Just happen to stumble upon y'alls channel and I am thoroughly impressed! Love the video format and edits you guys do for your guy's content. From one small channel to another, here's a like follow and a sub. And a best of wishes for your 40k journey for RU-vid 🙂
How much do you think storing warp storm points by default would help? My worry is you'll get a fix like that in the next dataslate, and it turns out to be nowhere near enough, and then you have to wait another 3 months to try again.
So i used to play chaos demons like 10 years ago, and recently got back into the hobby. Your breakdown of the codex was eye opening for me, because I actually enjoyed how little stratagems there were (mind you not realizing that other factions had more, just the fact that i could take a look at the codex online and start playing). One of the things I thought after playing a fluff tzeentch only list was "Nice this feels familiar, flamers used to be super strong and I guess they still are". I think they are in fact even stronger now than they used to be ( not that thats very surprising). I guess we went full circle in a way.
Nurgle is essentially just a stat-check. Does your enemy have good shooting or melee of STR 6 or 7, preferably damage 2? If so, you lose! Hurray! Funnily enough, Death Guard is probably one of the worst match-ups for Nurgle Daemons. Their extra toughness means nothing in melee, a single Volkite Contemptor will almost straight up delete a unit of plaguebeares a turn, Fleshmower Drones trade excellently with Beasts of Nurgle or Plague Drones all day, and win just about every time. Pretty much the only tough nuts to crack are Nurgle Soulgrinders, and the GUO. And by tough, I mean DG can't one-round them.
ork book is just a sad tragedy of a book ... I have been into orks since the 90s . and this current book is just trash unless you want to run buggies/snagga stuff .. . no love for the dread wagghhh/stompy stuff. ..
I am really on the fence about collecting and playing pure demons and this video is such a bummer. (But great job and thanks a lot for bringing these issues to the light!) I hate how in AoS I would have to buy 4 books to play demon. I don't want mortals, just pure demons because of the nice double use of demons in AoS and 40k. Chaos Daemons seem to be lacking though in all those tricky little things like stratagems or "core" that are completely unknown to me as a returning player from 5th...
Very well articulated critique. I got lucky early on, invested into every Daemon faction during early 9th, and was able to go into Disciples of Be'Lakor. I'm certain that it's the best option right now, because you get to dip into the best parts of the book without having to commit to the worst part. I can have War Dogs, Belakor, and all the best daemons, with all their strats, AND I still get to use the mediocre Warp Storm and CK once-per-game Dread ability. My list is still obviously 15 Flamers with troops to go score points, and due to GW's HORRIBLE porting of the Army of Renown and it's strats, there is also no reason to bring Chaos Marines (even tho it's 1/3rd of the point of the AoR). To see how fucky everything is for me, and then to realize I got it better than everyone else did, is astounding to me. I have a laundry list of fixes that I would make JUST FOR DoB. It's a really shitty feeling knowing that not only will GW likely never fix them, but may never even know how badly they dropped the ball in the first place.
Listen, two things in this codex are unequivocally fantastic: -Daemonic Allies/ Manifestation fixing the terrible summoning rules of 8th -Splitting Horrors is factored into the points cost of the models on your datasheet now Warp Storm is underwhelming as an armywide rule, sure, but bringing Daemons in a Chaos Knight list? Banger. Horrors finally being competative? a godsend to people who paid for and painted 50 horrors to have a full splitting unit.
Splitting horrors is so close to being fantastic, but the amount of times they get wiped, and you spent 5-8 extra points on a rule that effectively didn't exist is so frustrating. Manifestation and the spooky morale stuff is great, though
I would be ok with the warp storm dice if the effects were bullshit strong. They couldn't even just steal from AoS and use the Skull Throne or Depravity Points system! It's literally right there for the table to steal!
When i looked at the Daemons codex as an Deathguard player it felt a bit underwhelming. I had to check i hadn’t missed “chapter tactics” like -1 damage for Nurgle.
As a Nurgle daemon player, I should also add that dark invigoration is borderline useless for us. It can’t revive anything, since plaguebearers and nurglings have too many wounds and beasts of Nurgle won’t be healed because they heal to full wounds every phase. For 5 warp storm points, I should at least be able to revive plaguebearers. At least I won’t ever be tempted to use it, and can spend my warp storm points on something more valuable, like the Nurgle powers or the -1 to hit.
Warp storm, I think that like A: some things need to be just made innate again, its dumb that faction-abilities are now locked behind a random currency. B: Warpstorm points NEED to build up, make it a "Oooo, I'm saving up for a real banger of an ability if you don't deal with me soon" C: There needs to be a passive warpstorm buildup, like atleast 1 point needs to be given no matter what Or heck, you could make it so that warpstorm points build up but you get -1 per turn
if theres too few demons to make a full codex why not just skip one of the 5 million spezmarine+ updates and release some new demons the ever changing embodiments of the power of change... have no variation but hey more boring armored dude with gun
I am kinda glad to hear this and I'll go listen to the podcast too. I really felt "alone" on this take, I deeply love daemons and I am not pleased by this codex writting. I still find it's kinda the "best" daemon codex made but for me it's still the worst 9th edition codex (compared to the period it was released). I found that people around are too much positive about it. It still brings some good things but the internal balance is absurd to such a level that even with cost reduction, it'll still not feel "fun". As in general, there isn't much things to do on the board, so you feel trapped to the deepstrike+charge mechanic, heralds are jokes (and the named ones are even worst, unless maybe skulltaker because he isn't compared to a better psyker). There are so many things who doesn't make sense (even without speaking of the Be'Lakor army of renom). It feels like having an elite army without the durability, a melee focused faction without the tools to play it, etc. In my mind daemons became a bunch of "stats" and they try to find their soul. Like we came from a such pity pit from years of "nothing" that it still need more time to complete a real form. Making daemons able to ally to everyone must have forced GW to not give them too much tools to use because it would be "paired" with some of other chaos codexes. I feel like only Khorne is in an "ok spot" as all you want is charge, kill and be happy collecting skulls, even if I feel it too simple and a bit quickly boring.
As someone who used to play with a lot of slaanesh stuff in my army l can affirm that removing the "fight first" rule is probably the best change in this book. It sounds nice and easy on paper but with how combat works in 9th it's just a complete and utter brainfuck and it would almost never happen anyways so l'd mostly just ignore it. Good job for once james.
Warp Storm sounds really dumb. So there are abilities there that the army had by default, or that other armies have just by having a specific subfaction. If you have them half as often you would think they'd be twice as powerful to try to make up for it. And that doesn't even properly make up for it, since you won't necessarily have them when you need them. Though the unpredictability of it could be helpful in messing up your enemy, the fact is your army needs to be able to function against multiple types of armies. You can't be stuck with an ability that is good against shooting when fighting pure melee. They also design really poorly all around. I was so hyped when my Gargoyles had their guns made stronger. ...And I knew in the back of my mind that they'd be raised in point cost proportionally. So what happens? Almost no one uses them, or if they do they're pretty much purely for screening or obsec. People just go monsterous Tyranids and Warrior spam because they don't know how to make each unit fill a unique enough role so spam becomes a bad idea. Why take that when this is strictly better? Because it shouldn't be strictly better. They have a competitive scene, they should be taking balance seriously, and that can't be done if they can't design properly to begin with.
As an undivided player, it's really sad to see that playstyle gutted. The whole reason I got into Daemons was to have a multicoloured horde, and now I'm just told to suck it up and pick one or 2 subfactions.
Impressive you managed this kind of video in 35 minutes, most of them are 2+ hours. I wish they had developed the idea of the 'Undivided' daemons they introduced in WHFB 6th/40k 3.5 with chaos Furies etc, i think it would have helped with the power gamer vs army theme thing and the keyword spaghetti that seriously plagues demons to have good 'undivided' choices. Certainly to me would make them a whole lot less unappealing as an army, every army and even artwork that has them all working together like a happy family just grinds my gears.
“Imagine if your army rule just didn’t work some turns” …. Actually, if the army rule in question had some sort of baked-in disadvantage… that could be interesting. You could be praying for it to come up in one turn and not another.
So what I learned is I’m not buying this book and I’ll just use wahapedia if I use Tzeentch with my thousand sons. Also, subbing because I like the format. It would be kind of cool if next edition all the books are by chaos god and you can take them without the CP tax. Lean into Tzeentch daemons or thousand sons if you prefer, but can mix if you want.
The short summary of the codex: they replaced most of the weird special rules into simple auras, really buffed the profiles of units (sometimes integrating these old special rules into the flat statline, as in the Slaanesh's speed or Khorne's strength and attacks), and polished it on top with the solid set of army-wide abilities, such as deep-strike and Ld manipulation (which works really great when you have it on everything - the more tests the opponent has to roll, the more fails he'll inevitably make). But at THAT point, GW probably got afraid they'll overbuff the daemons, so the stratagems and the army-specific ability of Warpstorm was written too "safely". It's not a bad codex, I definitely like playing it, but yeah, the lack of the sub-faction specific bonuses is especially glaring.
>sometimes integrating these old special rules into the flat statline, as in the Slaanesh's speed Which is flat out wrong, because a 7" moving, D6+1 advancing Damonette is still faster than a 10" Demonette. A 14"+d6 Fiend is faster than a 14" Fiend. A 14+3+D6 Keeper of Secrets is faster than a 16" Keeper of Secrets. Slaanesh got GUTTED and everyone was pretending they're okay coping "oh wow, Demonettes move 10 inches", which is completely irrelevant because they're 12 POINTS PER MODEL and mandatory 10s. I would rather have 20 old Daemonettes than 10 new ones. Or you know what, I will take 10 Old demonettes, because that is 60 points saved on awful, unuseable troops. But the results speak for themselves: Slaanesh went from the BEST daemon list to basically never seen and we have more 8th Edition Demonettes logged into competitive results than 9th edition Demonettes.
I think one of the biggest reasons I won't play 40k anymore is I don't want to risk paying money for a codex that has a high chances of being poorly written or changed within a week.
They could literally strip all the rules out from the codices, making them just art and lore books, and it would make them more fit for purpose. It would certainly make them more valuable long-term for players of that army. Forget a book that becomes outdated after 3 years. Codices get outdated before they're even published. And what is there is just bad.
If I had to use a Slaaneshi metaphor, the Chaos Demon codex story is basically: each codex was beating the meat faster and faster, each new OP buff was slapping it hard and harder...then...suddenly, it jizzed and all the life was gone, after that, there was no slapping. And thus, CD was born
There are even more bits that just don't work. Horrors have the same issue as necrons; they're priced for splitting, but if they get wiped, it doesn't trigger, meaning they often just... don't split. One of the tzeentch warp storm effects is extra wounds in melee, where we're terrible. The blue scribes now cast random spells at the start of the turn, meaning you can accidentally cast the spell you needed your lord of change to fire off, making it a liability. Screamers are melee only, but have a 4+ ws and a 6+ melee save (can you tell I play tzeentch yet?) Nurgle can't use dark invig properly, as their troops have 2 wounds. And the worst in my opinion: the rule that makes greater daemons _have_ to take the warlord trait means that the ones that were clearly designed for the heralds (such as the to one for getting a cast and an action for something like psychic interrogation) never see play. Even with all that, I prefer it to the malfunctioning stuff we has in 8th, but man, I wish we could catch a break.
In the Tzeentch family, you forgot the joke what the changeling is. A 1 spell caster, with a special rule to perform in melee, ONLY against infantry. Can't take any relic. Cost 20pts more. Just end up in melee and die. Screamer 6+ melee is a pure bad writting. Looking at soulgrinders, being Tzeentch... end up with a better melee save. It's indeed better than the last codex who was left behind without even a single try of help. Even the release of the codex is... special. Absolute 0 new model, so furies are gone. Instead, to avoid being the only codex who get less datasheets in his new codex we got a khorne fortification for priests (so why should I put a duelist on it). It isn't like we could have Dexcessa and Synessa with non named characters rules or even fit a lacking part of heavy support for slaanesh.
Even though I am neither collecting nor playing anymore, I am happy I never got into Daemons. It almost always felt like uphill battles with what every other Army got. The only way I wanted to play was silly fun around daemonic summoning: A Word Bearer HQ detachment summoning an army out of thin air. A bunch of Slaanesh harpists flooding the field with KoSs. 3 Great Unclean Ones inviting more of them. Actually having more than three Skull cannons. But well, since I learned GW is happy to break armies with artificial limits, I got bummed out of making silly lists.
BROOOOOOOO.....personally I LOVE that Chaos Daemons is 4 armies that I can mix and match I love the creativity I can unleash with it. God I hope they don't split it up.
Additional comment on Dark Invigoration: It doesn't work on Plaguebearers It specifies that models can only be replenished if all models in a unit have 1 wound each Plaguebearers have 2 wounds each So best case scenario, you can heal half a Plaguebearer, while they get to sit and watch all your Bloodletters, Daemonettes, and Horrors (don't even get me started on the Horrors) get their friends back Should've probably specified Core Infantry instead so Plaguebearers aren't completely screwed over
Don't talk to me about Reanimation Protocols I freaking have hated that rule for the last two editions and IT DOESNT WORK. But yeah I absolutely understand where this comes from, cause I've had the same issues with Necrons. My condolences.
I probably won't get a notification of your reply (YT stopped sending those long time ago), so please go to my channel and send me an email instead if you want. Do you think making a supplement that tries to match CSM detachments with Daemon detachments in a more lore-friendly (Tzeentch hates Nurgle and will only ally with Slaanesh CSM maybe etc...) way would be a way to fix this situation? Obviously a whole lotta extra rules would have to be made, but it might be a way to reward mono-faction soups between Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons, Death Guard and Nurgle-daemons... while giving us Chaos players a chance to build a variety of interesting and playable lists.
The problem with making 4 daemonkin books is it would make more of gw's models sit on shelves. when you have 2 codex's merge together you will be using half the amount of models and some of the units you would have used in either book will never be touched anymore because you have a better option that came from the the other book. Like why the hell would a khorne daemonkin or tzeentch daemonkin use their chariots or soul grinders when they have the heavy support choices from chaos space marines. Why would tzeentch daemonkin use tzaangors at all if you have daemons instead. It wouldn't be a good decision for a company selling models to do
One thing that got skipped over that is super questionable, is that you can't take khorne relics on vehicles. Meaning the bloodthrone, which is the only khorne vehicle that could even take a relic, can't take one. It makes even less sense when you compare it to slannesh, which can take relics on their vehicles. I don't understand why they made this exclusion, it's not like it would make the bloodthrone overpowered or anything, it just makes no sense.
I'm plotting an Iron Warriors successor warband that uses daemons instead of cultists for cannon fodder- you don't have feed or maintain daemons. I'm bummed they're not as cool as they were when I first started playing
