Please kind lord, spare a few shillings 'fer a poor content creator? I can barely afford enough lootboxes to live on! www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames Want more jokes of a similar calibre? Me neither. But if you're a masochist then you can follow me on twitter : twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot
Hi, if you're interested in seeing depth "where you wouldn't suspect to find it" check out an underappreciated game named Lumines 2! ...and then see my recently set world (youtube?) record in the 60second time attack category. *flexes almost shamelessly*
It’s really important to acknowledge that game depth is about usable options, not just options period. What I mean is that a game will not feel deep if one or two options is the clear optimal choice for nearly every situation, despite there being two dozen choices.
this is a different topic. you are talking about dominant strategies, even games without combat systems at all should try to avoid dominant strategies. Unless it is a puzzle game because the whole point of puzzle games is finding out the dominant strategy in a particular situation.
Олег Пулемётное Туловище I define depth as the amount of meaningful choices the player has to make. I forgot where I heard that definition for but I like it a lot. Optional read: example So in the new Mario Maker update, u can play as Link. He has like 6 approaches to every combat scenario. Arrows are the dominant strategy because they can be used from a very safe distance. That hurts the depth because your choice now isn’t meaningful since there’s a clear best option. So I gave my Zelda combat levels a tighter timer so now arrows weren’t always optimal since they were too slow to *solely* complete the level in time. Now the player is using their sword more since it’s faster, but they still throw in the arrow when it doesn’t cost much time.
@@MacMan2152 even puzzle games can be built to avoid them in some contexts. Systemic puzzles like those that derive their solutions from physics and tool capabilities for instance - like in BOTW... Or things which are less explicitly puzzles and more... Simplified engineering challenges... Such as Zachtronics games...
@@KuraIthys you are right, those are the puzzles where there is an infinite number of solutions. I was talking more about conventional classic puzzle games.
About tenth time playing through Metal Gear Rising but it's on revengeance difficulty and I'm stuck at the final boss and like fifty attempts later I finally win: RULES!!! OF!!! NATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can you talk about how journey manages to tell a compelling story, convey a deeper message and have compelling gameplay with no combat please? its such an awesome with so much to unravel, it would be a perfect fit for your channel
There is a video by Brandon M. Jacobs titled "Journey - The Artistry of Game Design (Review/Analysis)" that you should check out. It might not exactly match what you're asking Adam for, but it goes into some depth on Journey and its meaning.
@Danny BRITZMAN that makes sense, journey is a game with one of the most brilliantly crafted atmosphere, while playing it you are just completely taken away by the scenery, music, ambience and feel of the world, you don´t even notice the lack of combat. and the game works, because, as you said, its minimalistic. the story is easy to understand, yet beautiful, same goes for the massage. the character design is on point with the religion themes, desert themes and is able to convey a lot of emotions for not having a face. the monsters are never stated to be evil, yet as soon as the first one appears you know to fear them. and the biggest thing is the mountain. as soon as it appears, you know its your destination, even tho no one ever tells you that. what an amazing game
Interesting note: Platinum Games was founded by old members of Studio Clover, the creators of Okami, not a fighter game but very notable, and God Hand, one of the best beat em up games
Since I'm a PC gamer, I never got much chance to play too many character action/brawler games, so I always appreciate a detailed look at how depth is created in those. Kudos!
metal gear risings pc port is really good and if you dont like the controlls for k&m just buy a gamepad for 20 bucks or something most Controllers should work on steam easily and if not there are third party programs you can use I use a fake ps4 Controller and if a game doesnt support this (like dark souls) I use the program ds4 (ds stands for dualshock) works like 90% of the time
Haha yeah, of course the only reason I'm playing this game is that I wish I was that hot! I'm totally not using it as an outlet for the pent up frustration I have with a world that's more obsessed with looking virtuous instead of actually having principles than a high school jock bitch! I definitely don't wish I could just beat the crap out of the soulless human shaped husks that most people idolize! It's all about that bass!
@@jackbaker967 XD You think complaining about virtue signaling is immature? Well congrats, if having a low opinion of immaturity makes me immature, it makes you immature too.
@@janeleonard985 No, but complaining about lack of principles and not looking for a solution instead of playing games and crying online therefor becoming the very thing you complain about, someone that virtue signals.
I decided to revisit Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix and play it on Critical Lvl 1, which I've never done before. The experience is much like the one you describe here. There is an amazing sense of depth to the game, when removing the levels. You're not grinding for levels to get through difficult passages in the game. Instead you have to engage with the mechanics and the options available to you. I try to learn each enemy's moveset and their weaknesses, and try to bring the right abilities, items and keyblade, and use a mix of melee and magic abilities, Drive forms and summons. There are a lot of little design choices in enemy and boss designs as well as combat mechanics that I appreciate more.
Computers follow the same principle you point out in this video: 1s and 0s. Pretty simple, yet people who are good with them can make some pretty insane stuff! Matter is also the same way: you've got Protons, Neutrons, and Electrons and that's about it (at least at the atomic level - yes I know there's shit below that) but look how much is made with them! 3D modeling is actually (imho) somewhat simple at its core: telling a computer where points are, which points are connected (edges), and which connections are connected (faces.) But the better you are the more amazing your stuff will look (especially when modeling stuff with high poly.)
Did you know that the creator of platinum was actually the dev of devil may cry1, that was ditched by capcom on dmc2(that's also why it is so goddamn bad). He decided to go for its own studio and succeeded, Big Time. Hideki Kamiya even designed every character in bayonetta with glasses just because the people he worked with didn't want Bayo to wear glasses. This is the reason he put glasses on EVERY character in the game. Dude is clearly hilarious and genious at the same time
THANK YOU!!! I was hearing the music 3/4 of the way through the video, and I knew I had heard it before, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out where I'd heard it. Had to pause the video and freaking repeat the song in my head trying to remember what it was.
I appreciate the effort and I do like this kind of videos but the only takeaway I got from this is that simple is more expressive and flexible and complex is rigid, I thought there going to be more specific insights on the key ingredients of Platinum games.
Would you please do a video on the utility of games teaching you applicable skills in the real world showing they aren't just a way to past the time or how they change your psyche (cognitively speaking)? Love you content, I think you are a real pioneer in the gaming industry.
Like how EA UFC teaches the importance of pacing, head movement, working the angles, and plenty other things that separate the real thing from what you see in tv, movies and games
A game with a surprisingly deep combat system (that no one ever even notices because of how easy 99% of the combat is) is FFXV. No joke. The game's combat is INSANELY deep. You don't need to do anything but mash the teleport attack over and over to win, but for some reason there's a billion little moving pieces in that combat system and if you master them, you can do absolutely insane things that seem like you're actually breaking the game...but you're not. You're just doing crazily complex combat stuff with the four basic moves plus the teleport. And it's awesome.
Ehhhh platinum is great and all but I mean Devil May Cry 5...capcom took it to the next level. This game is the definition of hype. So fun and so much depth.
@Zandatsu PlatinumGames maybe on a visual level but not rly when it comes to how much fun I have actually fighting them over and over, with some exception both sides ofc.
I feel like Assassin's Creed games (at least up until Black Flag) did something similar. Of course, a lot of the fun comes from being a stealthy silent bastard picking off guards one by one without ever setting off an alarm. But even if you mess up, or just aren't very good at stealth, most of the time the game gives you a chance to fight your way out if the guards find you. For a novice player, just completing the mission is enough, whereas more skilled players might go for the optional objectives and stylish kills.
1:57 Isn't Chess 2 actually dope, and made by a well known fighting game designer responsible for Fantasy Strike and Super Street Figher II Turbo HD Remix?
A few people've said it but eh. Adam, how could you have talked about masterful Combat Systems, and Platinum no less, without talking one wink about Astral Chain? The Legions offer soooo much in terms of combos, strategic manuvers, fighting styles, etc. It's also pretty replayable with its ranking system. Idk, seems like a huge missed opportunity to me. But, surely you'll talk about it in a future video, riiiiight? Hahaha... Please
Astral Chain feels kinda slow by Pt standards. I'm not saying that's a bad thing though, just that, compared to a game like Nier:Automata, I found AC required a but more thinking about what you're doing. I'm 11 chapters in now and I absolutely love it to death. Also sad he didn't talk about it.
I'm a relatively high-level Rocket League player (C3), and the fact that the RL footage has camera shake enabled makes me sad. Overall fantastic video!
This kinda reminds me of how Ys VIII - Lacrimosa of Dana, from Falcom gave that same "feeling" of depth with its cool Flash Guard and Flash Move mechanics. Those two, coupled with the simple and intuitive way the skills and damage types work made the game look and feel like that. It is somewhat less cinematic, but you still get that strategic play for advanced players when you learn how to work the AI patterns into your favor. So yes, I agree with you. A truly "platinum" analysis.
I don't suppose you could make a video on the combat of Spellbreak? It's a newer battle royale that allows players to use 2 of 6 different elements that interact in unique ways. For example, using toxic leaves poison puddles on the ground. Hitting those puddles with wind causes the puddle to turn into a small gas cloud. It wouldn't be a particularly long video, but it's an interesting topic imo.
I mean, I love platinum and agree with with what you said, but none of their game's combat system can compete with DMC3-4-5 and Ninja Gaiden black and 2, Platinum makes lots of games with lots of content tho, I'm particularly fond of the Bayo, MGR and Vanquish trio.
It's always worth remembering that all of this is a certain perspective, and you're always excluding people when you make certain design choices. That's not a bad thing by any means, though you can sometimes end up excluding player segments who might otherwise have bought your game. And I don't think this is a good example of something easy to learn but hard to master. It seems more like they're games speaking to a segment that's already in on the whole idea. Anecdotal supporting evidence: I heard good things about Nier: Automata's story, so I bought it. And then returned it 1 hour later. The combat system, from my perspective, was bad at clearly explaining what I was supposed to do at key moments, making the experience more annoying than fun, no matter the supposed excellence of the combat system. The only thing that was clear was that I was very far away from doing it well. It misses the "easy to learn" part of the adage, and becomes: Annoying, and hard to master. That's my perspective as a player of RPGs, RTSs, and FPSs. But not action/fighting games.
Hey, I wanted to bring something to your attention. Hope you’ll be able to read it. A German Football player, playing for Arsenal, mildly criticized the persecution of minorities in China. In response to that, that player was removed from PES2020 via patch a few days after. You should read it up. His Name is Mesut Özil.
Another game that has awesome gameplay is Monster Hunter. Each weapon has basically the same dps, but each have different styles of gameplay, from Lance's Guard or evade focus to Insect Glaive's acrobatics, to dual sword's frenetic slashings.
KittyShipperCaveGirl it’s actually a symbol that comes up in Bayonetta (I think when you activate witch time?), but it does look a lot like Homura’s shield. Maybe there’s some common root, esp since they’re both characters who slow down time to attack enemies more efficiently.
I have a question that may not be much of your area but I was really wondering if you could suggest something to help me with creating outdoor games. Video and cardboard games have a lot in common but applying the mechanics to outdoor games takes a lot of stretching and twisting. I tried to look someone up but "surprisingly enough" there aren´t many people talking about this topic. So being sort of close to the business could you mabe name a channel or book about the topic?
Coming off Automata going straight into Astral Chain felt so wired at first. I'm pretty far into Astral Chain now and the combat feels fluid and tons of fun, but compared to Nier it is slow and felt clunky at first. It's definitely more strategic and slow paced....for Platinum standards.
It's still super fun and takes a while to learn. While the game isn't mostly too hard, some of the later post game challenges are some of the hardest things I've played in any game. One of the challenges took me 8 hours to beat and it was only 10 min long. I'm not even that bad at the game since I had no problems with any of the fights in the main game in pt standard difficulty.
So it's like Kirby boss fights? I've spent hundreds of hours just going through the true arena over and over again, trying to improve my time or win with a weird challenge like using only the wheel ability (I nearly won with that one, actually)
depends on your definition of mastery did you master a game when you manage to beat it on the highest difficulty or does mastery apply when you beat it without dying or getting hit at all or is it mastery if you can play it while blindfolded? what I mean is: mastery doesnt matter set yourself a goal if you reached it: you mastered it Edit: I hope this is helpful somehow ^^
combat depth in a way craetes a form of untintentional diffculty scaling, very much like n skyrim, stealth archer is basically easy mode while melee weapons and no stealth is a lot more difficult. similar how in darksouls etc going ranged also equals easier time compared to melee.
are you going to do more monster hunter stuff aftermonster huntnerworld:iceborne comes to Pc. i can't wait to hear from you about it after then. love the videos !
