It basically works the same way the doom 3, 2016 and eternal bfg works. We can thank quake 2 for giving us the arena clearing I'm about to die please save me gun that we take for granted today.
Yep. This is the iteration that gave us the energy tendrils that were the final ingredient of the BFG formula (and a huge part of the enjoyment). The only real change in later games was perhaps increased damage and significantly reduced ammo availability.
The BFG10K effects added to the remaster actually come from Quake II 64. Well kind of, it didn't use them on the BFG, it was an electric gate effect we needed to port over along with the maps. When doing an effects pass, Paril and Sponge decided to give the BFG ball the same effect as it was available to use. Meanwhile, the BFG being changed to not pierce and indirectly effect destructing triggers was due to a common problem where firing the BFG could accidentally trigger progression without the player being aware of it (due to large indiscriminate damage to a whole room), causing players to become lost or triggers activating too quickly.
I answered somewhere else, but the pierce is still there it's just visually broken, & the BFG func_explosive/func_button thing was a bug caused by Ground Zero's code changes - but I agree that it's probably for the better, since otherwise you could fire a BFG and get "You have found a secret area!" that's not even on your screen lol
@@ParilPMCAh weird. I remembered a QA report from the above and thought that was the reason for the change. Weird how that accidentally turned into the same thing. :V
@@edward850 Oh you're right I do remember that image, I can't remember why that came up though. I think QA was just like "this secret is dumb" because chances are something would blow it up anyways. I really do wonder why the level designer thought it appropriate to add *five/six* exploboxes there though lol
Yooo you guys rock! Thanks for bringing us such a great remaster! Q2 is such an amazing game, so really, thanks a lot. Side note: Will the PSX campaign be released eventually? I heard it was gonna be either a future update or a separated addon for the game.
I can't overstate my excitement when you dive into the code behind the game mechanics. It demystifies why certain mechanics work the way they do while providing a unique view into a world few get to peek into. Fantastic, as always, pumpkin man.
@@MukyuMyonNyanMimi hey, doom is basically bullet hell, in a sense, from a certain perspective. If you put a lot of non-hitscan enemy on your map it'll be like a Touhou stage.
Doom has a lot of sound effects used in other media. The Imp sounds became camel sounds in Age of Empires II, while one of the door sounds got recently used for a malfunctioning flying car in NIMONA 2023... decino may wanna make a compilation video or more out of those. WE SORELY NEED THEM!!!
To be honest, I always thought the self damage made sense because I always figure its an exploding ball of energy. And as weird as it sounds, this is my favorite look of hte BFG, there is something about it that looks fascinating yet simple.
@@OsakaLover there are tons of older games that are just awesome, some I recommend are the likes of Tron 2.0, a very interesting first person shooter. I do recommend the turok games but I will warn with Turok 2, well I am not a minotaur on my spare time.
Also: the ducking thing was fixed in re-release. I made monsters duck actively rather than passively (they scan for projectiles that might hit them to duck in time), and I didn't mark BFGs projectile as duckable, so they'll just eat it now lol
Damn I missed the black sparks bug! I remember looking at it too but never ended up fixing it (EDIT: apparently I broke TE_LASER_SPARKS fully in the re-release engine.. oops)
for the longest time since i was like 3 i thought the bfg shots came out of jorg's armpits lmao it took until your breakdown of makron's stats to realize he's lifting jorg's arm to shoot past it himself definitely looking forward to more quake 2 videos whenever you feel like it
The Makron's model never made much sense to me considering how different it was between phases It wasn't until this video and this comment that I realized just how that thing actually works
9:34 I played this game back in 1997, yet this moment is the first time I've noticed that Makron is riding on the back of the battlesuit, rather than being inside it.
The more I watch these Quake videos, the more I'm convinced Doom 2016 is actually Quake 2016. This video will be really handy when I start my playthrough. Shameless pony plug.
happened in the video about the Doom intermission screen, too, I assume because funny pumpkin man mentioned it and the yt video processor heard it that and decided "you know what, fck you" *untimes ur time stamp*
Quake II as a whole is just so cool and you rarely see anyone talk about it. Quake's Lovecraftian vibe is great and all, but Quake II was just so ambitious and nailed the grungy si-fi aesthetic it was going for. Also it has one of the best soundtracks ever made.
Gosh! This weapon really lives up its name. Now all we need if a DoomGuy BFG9000 versus QuakeMarine BFG10K deathmatch battle, so we can see the amazing strategies players can use the weapons against each other.
If you're doing Quake 2 stuff... I'd be interested in how the secret stealth mechanic works. In the Ground Zero expansion, a secret gives you a disguise so enemies ignore you. I can also confirm that you can kill enemies and, as long as you one-shot-gib them, you don't lose your disguise. I have my suspicions about how the programming logic works, but I would like to know what's actually happening.
On a similar note, there's some interesting stuff with enemies responding to sounds (like dropping into/coming out of water) that they'll run over to check out the cause of, it's almost like barebones mechanics for a stealth-themed game are in place.
A (belated) elaboration on my theory of how the game logic is working: Enemy AI is set to wake-up if it sees the player, hears the player, is hurt by the player, or hears a nearby monster wake-up. The disguise makes it so that enemies do not wake-up upon seeing the player. This lasts until the disguise is "dispelled", which happens either triggering aggro in any other way, or crossing a loading zone. If the disguise is lost, the player can revisit the secret at any time to get a new one. If using the Silencer item, enemies will not wake-up upon hearing the player's gunshots. When using the Silencer and the Disguise, if you can one-shot an enemy, the disguise remains intact. My speculation is that the enemy dies before it's AI is able to register that it took damage, and so it dies without ever first waking-up. I haven't looked into the code at all, but these are observations I've made from playing.
Quake 2 was the real trendsetter for BFGs going forward. Honestly I prefer the lasers coming from the ball instead of having to make sure I’m close enough to my enemies to deal maximum damage. Imagine if you had to do that in the modern games :v
8:23 - I should probably ask to be sure, if this is affected by the player choosing to respawn or disconnect from the server. So, basically, at point blank range, it's 500 damage from the main blast, about 200 from the projectile, 10 damage from the laser tracer, and then 100 damage per second from the laser? That's about 710 + 100*seconds passed. Compared to Doom's BFG, those numbers seem kind of shabby(not enough to kill a Baron!), but I admit, I don't play this game as often as the former. Perhaps small numbers are far more deadly in the world of Quake. I suppose those lasers could really pump out the damage if the projectile flew a really long distance, but as said the in the video, those levels are a bit cramped... Gotta try it on the Longest Yard usermap! Also, we have 3 different things named BFG 10 000, and they all differ. Quake ]['s is a like the Doom BFG9000, Quake ]|['s is like a plasma rifle that shoots explosive plasma bolts, and the Doom Eternal one is like a cannon that can cause holes in planets, Samuel cried a river. How annoying!
If the player respawns it will choose the new position for its line of sight and distance calculation. If the player disconnects then there's nothing to use for the line of sight check and no explosion effect damage will be dealt.
the damage numbers are indeed a bit weaker than the Doom BFG. It's still plenty capable of killing dangerous enemies (if you can get a shot off before the prick summons goons to eat your ammo, it's the best solution to annoying Medic Commanders in the expansions) but also generally much less useful against the smaller number of beefier enemies in Q2. Your railgun or grenade launcher are going to get far more use against dangerous enemies, and your chaingun or SSG against clusters of 'em.
I suddenly really want some more quake 1 and 2 analysis. Like how sound propagation works in these games since it's a 3d space and not just lines on a map, or how Quake's really aggressive AI works.
you might want to check the channel Matt's Ramblings as it contains many detailed explanations of Quake specifics (both gameplay mechanics and rendering techniques)
I keep having recurring memories of this legendary weapon(which we used to nickname "movie camera") performing in our Quake 2 deathmatches on Ps2! I remember the green sphere sprite to not be translucent back then. Anyway, thank you so much for yet another video to add on top of your knowledgeable series! :D
Wow, it's been 5 years since the last Q2 analysis video?! I haven't fired a Q2 BFG since the 90s, but this was still fascinating. Well done, Decino. I loved the little details, like calling out the video length and the "Big, uh, Freakin' Gun" from the manual. 😆
It's been over 20 years since I've played Quake II but I remember how satisfying it was to take out hordes of enemies with this bad boy. And of course, emptying it into the final boss to get rid of his armor as fast as possible before finishing him off with the rest of my weapons.
Oh, I hope this means we'll get more Quake-related analysis videos in the future! I missed out on the Quake series when I was younger, but I've really gotten into it lately. I personally hope to see an analysis video on Quake 1's monsters! ❤
Quake 2's BFG is still my favorite in the series, completely dwarfing its predecessor in Doom and no later game managed to replicate the satisfying combination of the sound, visual effects and the devastating damage it deals to everything around you (looking at you, Quake 3's glorified rocket launcher)
This was pretty cool, tons of info in there that I didn't know about but especially interesting is I didn't know both the player and the green ball require line of sight to enemies. Thanks for the upload
Quake 2 was probably my first multiplayer game and it is still amazing to this day. I miss all the wonderful mods people made for it like Action Quake, ChaosDM, QWars, Jailbreak, etc. Truly an amazing time.
It amuses and disappoints me when people say Quake 2 didn't leave any impact, when its iteration of the BFG has been the base model for future id games. It just FEELS more powerful too. The only other megaweapon that could match the power level for me is probably Wraithverge from Hexen.
this might be an odd thing to say, but these videos are great to go to sleep to. they’re also just good videos but i don’t wanna waste my “it’s been a few months and this video is fresh to my brain” on eating breakfast
It's been a while since you've done a Quake analysis video. To be honest, I'm good with you doing analysis on ANY old-school FPS on ANY topic. You're so thorough in your research and you keep it entertaining. I love it
Comments getting in the 1k+ range and you now have even less time to read them all. I'll never understand how you still manage to do this. decino you're absolutely legendary.
I just finished a full original Quake II run a couple of days ago then you go and post this up right after for us decino? That's some great coincidental timing! 😄👍🏻
Interesting to learn that you could easily make a weapon in Q2 that can shoot tru glass and other transparent walls, I think at least one unofficial addon provided a gun with such effect.
I really hate the whole "you need to be in line of sight for the explosion to work" thing. My immediate instinct is "I just launched a big explody thing I better get to cover" but that's the opposite effect
I always loved Q2's weapons, especially the Super Shotgun, Chain gun and the BFG10K Are you planning to go in depth with Quake 2?? Or no plans yet?? Hope all is well Pumpkin man)) 🎃
Just played and finished Quake II last week, perfect timing. I've been watching for years, I love your videos so much, both your analyses and ultra-violence runs so much (:
I love the BFG10K but now knowing the times I activated Quad Damage to use it makes me feel a tad bit MAD. Damn, I should have used the hyperblaster or the railgun in those cases.
So, a giant explosive energy ball that shoots lasers at nearby enemies while it flies and does a second 'to whom it may concern' explosion to anyone that both the projectile and the player can see at once? God, somehow it's more overpowered than the oirginal BFG 9000. What I wonder is, why is the second explosion programmed like that? It seems kinda esoteric for it to only hurt distant enemies if the Player has direct line-of-sight, and not just do a full regular explosion (which is also kinda a problem with the BFG9K too, the Tracers are never explained anywhere!). That second burst also kinda makes the default splash damage irellevant, there's not exactly many things that would fit into that small range between 1000 and 1200, is there?
i love how the difference within the Quake and Doom BFGs are the fact that one is a Big Fucking Gun and the other is a Big Freaking Gun, that according to the manuals cracks me a laugh sometimes
So, to sum up: u should not shoot directly at target, but rather at nearby environment, so that enemy could be hit by explosion damage, not by splash damage.
Funny jokes aside, Quake II was my first game, and oh boy, theese weapons, this lighting, this atmosfere. BFG as its sounds, its Big Mdfkn gun. When projectle was flying above enemies, there was to much interactions so even game sound starts cracking and pc burning 😂
8:17 I can only guess they first tried to just half the explosion damage to the player, found out it's still too much and then removed the self damage entirely, but forgot to remove the bit about half damage
Do love some Quake 2, considering the way you talk about it, it also seems like Doom and Quake and pretty damn similar, but maybe it is just your expert analysis making it easy for us to digest.
...you also have to be in LOS of something for the final explosion to hit? That's a weird requirement. You'd think just being in LOS of the projectile would be enough but I guess they really didn't like the idea of someone chucking it down a hallway and hiding again.
Quake II has always ruled. I feel like decades of hay have been made about it being the first Romero-less id game and how it's the beginning of the end of id's golden age, but I always thought it was a solid game.
...also I wanted to say this: Q2 BFG is fairly balanced for multiplayer games I mean, yeah, it is the ultimate weapon and can kill a lot of players at once, but it has pre-fire time and the ball itself is slow. There is a chance for escape in Q3 however, BFG is something like automatic rocket lanucher and is much more dangerous but less fun
8:40, the soundtrack here was lower on my volume so I kept hearing the 'Loud Nigra' sound effect until I realised no, it was brainrot making me hear that
