I think the big thing to remember is that railway realism isn't what makes an episode great; it's the story and characters. For me personally, I'd rather have an amazing story that pushes characters further that doesn't completely abide to real railway practices than a completely realistic story that's super dull. At the end of the day, kids and casual viewers won't normally notice these moments, especially in the classic series (Rule 55, Narrow Gauge running to Vicarstown, the Jet Engine, at least half of Season 5) because they all flow so naturally into the world the show has, and make for some great entertaining episodes. The appeal that the characters are trains was never lost in this either, seeing these new scenarios the characters find themselves in. When they suit the show, that's more important than being realistic, since everyone will remember the story and characters and take more notice of that. And to be honest, they handled it pretty well for 21 seasons...until BWBA. Now, the big problem with this era wasn't the unrealism as much as it was the ADHD pacing, the way the countries were represented, and the appeal of them being trains was lost. But the thing is...everything that was unrealistic felt like a gimmick that either had no place in Thomas (Marvelous Machinery), or, even if it was realistic, be a stupid concept (the walking bridge). It's so much more noticeable here because they just don't fit with everything that came before it, and AEG even more so (though it being in a separate canon negates any in-universe repercussions). Regardless of whatever oddities, the series always kept itself grounded, so to go so wacky out there and have no rhyme or reason feels off to anyone watching the show. That's why it got so much hate. It's not just noticeable to train experts, but to practically everyone. So, my personal belief is this: railway rules can be broken to suit a great story, as long as it still suits the universe and isn't completely gimmicky or noticeable.
Yup. Just ignore sentience and treat him like he is still the same engine, just heavily rebuilt and standardised to the point where only 5% of his former original design or less is left of him.
@@LazyOldFusspot_3428if youre referring to the 2 henrys theory, i honestly think they just took henry's smokebox door (his face) off of his old shape and put it on a black five lol its a headcanon, but its plausable depending on what size henry's face is
@@stationmasterkumaliterally exactly my opinion on Henry as well. It's totally possible that William Stanier had an almost complete Black 5 that he just slapped Henry's smokebox on.
As much as people like to argue that Season 5 is too unrealistic, you can't deny that the odds of things happening like runaway boulders, engines swept away by floods, or engines and their crews buried alive in snow, are never zero.
What Audrey says goes. Anything he says that doesn’t go doesn’t fly with me. I’m a purist. Whatever Audrey says is what will be. Whatever he doesn’t say won’t be.
If kids nowa days don't have long enough attention spans or likes silly jumping engines, then turn Thomas into what it should be, a realistic world, turn it into a teenage to adult show for damn sakes, I agree, Thomas should be a realistic world and show
Honestly, if I can accept talking trains, I can accept some low key whimsical elements and unrealistic actions. Big specials like Tale of the Brave and Lost Treasure can probably get away with more grandiose and off the wall elements, but regular episodes definitely work better when they’re more down to earth. Certain elements like the conductors and magic railway might be a stretch, but a good writer could make them work. In short, if it makes a good story, anything goes Also, TATMR doesn’t necessarily mean that Sodor isn’t “real”. It’s just an alternate universe/timeline while Shining Time is yet another.
@@spiderfan2003 indeed, I’d say Carson Workshop’s one Christmas episode is an example of how the magic railway and STS elements can work well. Keep in mind, the two specials I mentioned, as well S5 and the Brenner seasons have plenty of unrealistic scenarios, and they’re usually held in high regard.
I’ve always imagined Thomas as part of Britain more of what if Thomas and the others grieved over there scrapped siblings or the hardships of British railways
@@spiderfan2003If Thomas told the sir tophem hat to buy his siblings before they were scrapped.. here’s my theory’s if Thomas siblings were bought to stay on sodor.. They would have been rebuilt to look like Thomas with upgrades that gets them really far or pull heavy loads. even though it would maybe cost a lot of money… and if that happens before Gordon, James, Henry went on strike… Percy would haven’t been bought until later if sir tophem hat needs more tank engines later on for shunting or pulling goods trains or passenger… So basically sir tophem gets the budget to put more births in the sheds… Thomas siblings would fit in the sheds… Edward would later on teach them to shunt and pull trucks just like how Thomas was taught by Edward when in The Adventure Begins.. Thomas siblings would really help for other things… Maybe have branchlines. Or help at the docks like salty. Or where mavis works at. They would be so helpful to the island of sodor if they were bought.
Facially I find the Steamer features should exceed their smokebox to boost their animated appeal… Condensing the other elements take away potential for storylines that explore the engines’ health and stamina (Edward’s Exploit)
I say the Thomas should at least be 75-90% realistic. You have to stick with what the source material tried to do and what made it I mean, not that everything has to be realistic, I do love the darker tone season 5 had, the engines having personalities of their own, that’s fine, you can do that. I also really like the spooky stories like about Timothy. But you should mostly stay more grounded and make sure to understand that realism and being down to earth is an important part of Thomas the tank engine. That’s what BWBA and AEG completely fail to understand.
I’m glad someone was willing to talk about this. I’ve always found it so bizarre how some Thomas fans would roll their eyes at stories that pushed the boundaries of surrealism, official stories or fan made. Yet at the same time praise works such as Rusty and the boulder or Toby and the flood which one could argue exist purely for the sake of spectacle. And it’s true, some stories out there, again official and fan made may seem to stretch the boundaries of what’s realistic. Like Tobias and the half pariah for example. Brilliant movie but comes off as unrealistic when you consider that humans exist in that world. Yet at the same time there’s movies like The Great Discovery where Thomas floats down an abandoned and flooded mineshaft, only to come flying out the other side making an impossible jump and landing on the other side. Yet fans love both films regardless. To argue both points, too much realism could be a problem as well. It could be limiting in the types of stories you could tell, or it could come across as boring. Depending on how well the story is written of course. Look at Chris Awdry’s books of the railway series as an example. They aren’t bad by any means, they are down to earth and realistic, just more mundane by comparison to his father’s works. TLDR: I think there is a balance that can be struck. Realism is what Thomas is often praised for, so keeping it down to earth while also providing a sense of something new, something exciting is nothing bad either. So long as it makes sense to exist in Awdry’s original vision. Thank you for listening to my Ted talk
Reality is this franchise’s restriction, which breaths creativity. Characters, locations, stories and history are tied to real contextual reasoning (personality based on how engines feel to handle) (Sodor being based on an empty bishop of history)(stories being based on real events) I do like suspension of disbelief moments as they are completely out of the bloom and make for exciting moments. But I argue you can do just the same with real life due how vast a railway network is, the benefits of the NWR, SR, AR, CFR, being fictional is that you can work in whatever real life offers and it would be a perfectly fine story.
I think there needs to be balance, personally. For example, Toby and the Flood is surreal, but it's not like bridges haven't been washed away or dams haven't broken before. Rusty and the Boulder is also surreal, but it's not like the boulder broke the laws of physics in order to roll down the line. Here, the surrealism is balanced out with realistic elements so the stories are almost like "what if this happened?" stories. (For example, what if an engine was travelling across bridge when a nearby dam collapsed") sort of thing. Realistic starting points with a surreal flourish, if that makes sense. In contrast, stories like Up, Up and Away, Chickens To School, Thomas and The Snowman and Misty Island Rescue as well as the entire BWBA era seem unbalanced. There's not enough realism to balance out the surrealism. Why do teachers just unload and accept the chickens? Why do engines jump? Why not just build a regular bridge instead of that walking one that no train longer than a single truck will ever be able to cross? Why not give BWBA the Thomas and the Special Letter treatment and have Thomas go on some sort of world tour, like The Flying Scotsman did, thus giving him a reason to be in these countries? When there is too little realism and the realm of possibility is much too slim, it ends up feeling like the showrunners don't really care about what they're making and the show ends up missing a crucial part of its identity...it's about trains.
I always knew about Henry stopping in the forest being stupid, but I kind of thought that that was a siding. Whenever you see trains going by there, they're using the three middle tracks
Well, I like the forest part of Henry, underneath all that Gordon like attitude in Henry, He is real sweet and kind towards Nature and has a soft spot for it, I respectfully disagree with Awdry
The worst unrealistic thing from the classic era of Thomas aside from TATMR is that crash in the series 5 episode ''Bye George'' when Gordon sends the truck flying into the sky.
i think thomas is one of those franchises wer it shouldnt fall into one category. it should be silly, or realistic or simple. I think people should enjoy thomas for what it is, either its a silly cartoon train that jumps off the track's or a real working locmotive in the real world.wether the show is about him picking the "special, special" or him jumping off action canyon, or just a day in a life of the branchline. I think as a fandom we shoould enjoy all sides, good and (not so good)
I know many people have gripes with Thomas the Jet Engine and how unrealistic it is, but in that case that was really as unrealistic as the classic series got. While it did get a little silly sometimes it never got too much like that and there was always that wonderful teeter totter or balance between silliness and realism. Heck, even the Brenner era got this pretty right to an existent. That's when I think it is at it's best. The HiT, Nitrogen, and esepcially BWBA and AEG, all get it so wrong, but at least the former two still feel like train shows, so...
I agree, the series should be 75% realistic and 25% creative, just to allow a bit of freedom to do the unthinkable. Or you could stretch it further by having the engines look exactly like there real-life counter parts just with trademark paint and numbering or Sodor's railway numbering system.
My view of the world of Thomas is this A grounded english countryside set in 1960s-70s, with Scottish mystism(standing stones of killdane/ghosts) as lore aesthetics, so realistic as crashes and accidents go with occasional elements of magic and pocket dimensions like Lady in Magic Railroad is how I depict my fan thomas universe, the engines can move on their own if they have the steam power to do so, their crew is there to start their fires and maintain repairs and help control their systems when they can't. So with 65% realism, the rest magic and occasion spookiness to keep the audience entralled, no engines that aren't UK/Scottish etc unless their real life basis like Rosie's had something to do with British history.
Good question. Well, I just thought that the world of Thomas and Friends should be a lot like our world, except for the fact that the trains and non-rail vehicles have faces. Which is how Wilbert Awdry intended it from the start. And that's how it was in the earlier seasons. But that's not to say that I'm inflexible when it comes to bringing surreal elements into the series. After all, if it was exactly like real life, it wouldn't be much fun.
I personally love how thomas kinda has the ability to bop his body around. I feel like he has a bit more freedom. Ive always wanted thomas to do that honestly. I also love a adventurous thomas. Jumping bridges going high speeds. I feel like thomas is more fun that way. I dont approve of aeg or SOMETHINGS about bwba However i do love the adventurous brave thomas.
I say dead realistic. The faces are just there to understand how fickle and alive steam engines can be, which is one of the reason why most of the diesels can be more 2 dimensional in personalities, because most of them just do what you ask, or fail, whereas steam engines are very needy and must be handled with understanding.
Another fantastic video my friend. It's a good question with a lot of interesting thoughts and analysis on a subject the fandom like to debate about. Your video skills are excellent and I am very proud of you. Well done ☺️🚂🚃
There are some instances where I don’t mind unrealism (“Henry’s Forest”, “Rusty and the Boulder”, and “Thomas and the Jet Engine” are three of my all-time favorite episodes), but when Mattel handled unrealism, it was just sad to see how badly Thomas declined after Season 21.
@aoiasahinashusband and in my opinión it now became a pointless due to the downfall of Alfred when nwr origins became popular i mean in Sodor Dark Times it makes sence but in other interpetaions he is just like a generic cartoon villian that looked he came from Season 5 or BWBA and most of the explotions that he puts looks like if it came Season 5 or BWBA
As someone who is OK with all engines go i do think thomas should be realistic but it should have a bit of verity I would be OK with all engines go being a spin off series with a more true to awdry main stream series keeping things realistic as they can
as an entertaining show, realism does not take precedent, however this is thomas the tank engine. this is the railway series, this is awdry's work. and i'm sure you already know the answer to this.
The dark and edgy action packed from season 5 is moslty the reason why ive find timothy and alfred to be a bit overrated i mean alfred's crash in nwr origins was mainly done in a season 5 style since he fly
Timothy is overrated, but the nostalgia factor on that guy is real. First creepypasta of any sort I read or watched on the internet was Timothy the ghost engine. Kinda meh story, but he has a definite place in ttte and internet creepypasta history.
Here's my thoughts: If Sodor takes place in the real world, that would mean that today, in the 2020s, the North Western Railway is still an active revenue-earning railway, that still uses the same engines it used almost a century ago. As a result, that means people on Sodor would have smartphones and all of the technology we have in the real world, and the pandemic did happen and probably impacted the NWR as well. I don’t know, that's just my thought. Feel free to disagree with me if you want.
Awdry’s goal for Sodor is to make a place that feels like you can actually visit in real life. Everything is just as it is and works as it does in real life. The only difference between our world and Sodor is that the vehicles have faces and can talk It’s evident in the sheer amount of technical details in his stories, notes, models, etc. that he wanted Thomas to be as realistic as possible. Heck, he even wrote a whole history book of Sodor. If that doesn’t provide the answer, I don’t know what does…
Y’know, Thomas is (gonna be) 80 years old now and deserves to have reboots and multiple styles like Scooby Doo and Mickey Mouse. There is a generation gap between the eras such as Millennials who grew up with the Classic Era, Gen Z who grew up with the HiT, Miller and Brener Era, and Gen Alpha who grew up with All Engines Go. It’s inevitable that TTTE will have more and more reboots down the line and people will love or hate them. To quote the bookmark documentary, “Thomas will go on forever“
2:46 The Swindonized Taff Vale O1s: Though, seeing as the books are basically just reality, but with sapient vehicles, and a larger island off the coast of Barrow, I imagine anything that could/did happen in real life applies. Of course, things like magic, or more cartoony ideas wouldn't happen, but it doesn't mean there's *nothing*. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any books at all. Weird things happen with railways.
I think heres how the magic railroad can work its only mr conducter and junior and lady that use it to transport to sodor in the case of junior and conducter they propeply dont need to use a plane or boat since they have magic
@spiderfan2003 think you its something í thought of in my head Edit if anyone who wants to do a rewrite of magic railroad and want to use this idea í put out go for it
I hope it doesn’t sound controversial for saying this, but personally, I think Thomas should be equally realistic and silly like not realistic to the point where all the characters are all edgy and serious all the time, but not silly to the point where they have brain dead characters
In my opinion, while I do prefer the franchise to be overall down to earth for the most part, but that doesn’t mean it has to be 100% realistic. And while I do understand the backlash TATMRR gets and why it’s confusing with wasted opportunities here and there, but for me, I have a very soft spot for the film because it kinda gives me a theory about why the engines like Thomas are sentient to begin with. At least I can make SOME sense out of it, unlike certain aspects in BWBA and for the most part, AEG, which has no reason to be greenlit whatsoever!
@@dylanlyles9453 Speaking of scrap dealers, imagine if there were a new human villain in the official canon who was the manager of the Smelter’s Yard, and his diabolical plan was to scrap all of Sir Topham Hatt’s steam engines and replace them with diesels. What do you think of that idea?💡
Henry wasn’t rebuilt into a black 5 completely he’s still a one off who just happened to resemble it more as it was a more distinct design than Gordon’s
I mean, all engines go is like looney tunes, and is suppose to be silly and non realistic, ofc they needed something baby-ish for the little ones to suit for the baby audiences
But btw i dont mind dark and edgy concept when it comes to spooky stories but when it comes to the action and packed it feels that is just dosen't work as it became way too overused
