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How Religious Were the Founding Fathers? - Gordon Wood 

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Complete video at: fora.tv/2009/08/25/Why_America...
Historian Gordon Wood explains that Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and George Washington were not "emotionally religious." He outlines the development of religion in the early United States, stating that as American society became more democratic, "the evangelicals took over."
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Pulitzer Prize for History recipient Gordon Wood traces the history of American efforts to promote democracy around the world from the French Revolution to current involvement in the Middle East.
As far back as the 19th century, the identity of America has been linked to its central role in sparking republican revolutions around the world. - Chautauqua Institution
Gordon S. Wood is Alva O. Way University Professor and Professor of History at Brown University. He received his B.A. degree from Tufts University and his Ph.D. from Harvard University. He taught at Harvard University and the University of Michigan before joining the faculty at Brown in 1969.
He is the author of many works, including The Creation of the American Republic, 1776-1787 (Chapel Hill, 1969), which won the Bancroft Prize and the John H. Dunning Prize in 1970, and The Radicalism of the American Revolution (New York, 1992), which won the Pulitzer Prize for History and the Ralph Waldo Emerson Prize in 1993.

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9 сен 2009

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Комментарии : 430   
@Syrinx69
@Syrinx69 14 лет назад
Reading the Founding Father's personal journals clears things up 100% - they viewed Christianity and organized religion as absurdities.
@willyp3285
@willyp3285 2 года назад
Then government became religion.
@jonjonboi3701
@jonjonboi3701 2 года назад
@@willyp3285 well sort of but it still doesn’t make it a religion because religion means the belief in a supernatural being or a spiritual entity
@jonjonboi3701
@jonjonboi3701 2 года назад
The founding fathers didn’t view religion and Christianity as absurd
@mattsutman1154
@mattsutman1154 2 года назад
@@jonjonboi3701 That's not even close to what "religion" means!
@peterkropotkin1158
@peterkropotkin1158 Год назад
@@jonjonboi3701 Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin certainly did
@Aaberg123
@Aaberg123 15 лет назад
Are you kidding? The absolute genius in some of these people is astounding. Yes, they did do some morally deprived acts (had slaves), but the sheer brilliance of people like James Madison is not so easily dismissed.
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." --The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.
@kenhoyer8601
@kenhoyer8601 Год назад
Spoken like a true politician
@freesk8
@freesk8 15 лет назад
I never suggested that MLK, Gandhi and Malcolm X were founding fathers. I included them in a list of great people, and included the founding fathers in that list. Add Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and Washington to the list of founders and great men as well. I like how you call the US a Constitutional Republic instead of erroneously calling it a democracy. Well done!
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Remember taking geometry in high school? It is based on axioms, unprovable assumptions that are then used to formulate the various laws of geometry. All science is based on unprovable assumptions such as trusting that the same natural processes we observe today will be working the same way tomorrow. Everyone operates, ultimately, on faith. Modern science is the result of Christians examining the world around them, convinced that it makes sense because its Creator was a rational being.
@anonymousaliassmithjones6868
@anonymousaliassmithjones6868 3 года назад
For over two centuries the Constitution has remained in force because its framers successfully separated and balanced governmental powers to safeguard the interests of majority rule and minority rights, of liberty and equality, and of the federal and state governments. More a concise statement of national principles than a detailed plan of governmental operation, the Constitution has evolved to meet the changing needs of a modern society profoundly different from the eighteenth-century world in which its creators lived. To date, the Constitution has been amended 27 times, most recently in 1992. The first ten amendments constitute the Bill of Rights. And therefore there is no such thing as a bill of wrongs!!!
@trentp8035
@trentp8035 2 года назад
They were deists, they believed an architect put the universe in motion, and then stepped away.
@post105
@post105 15 лет назад
Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.. Pretty impressive..
@thedefendingchamp
@thedefendingchamp 15 лет назад
Will do. What matters is what we want now...not what people wanted hundreds of years ago.
@joyceedwards4963
@joyceedwards4963 3 года назад
That is fascinating, that many of the Founding Fathers were not very religious.
@frankmontez6853
@frankmontez6853 3 года назад
there's another video by Ben Shapiro that had Wall Builders historian and he show goes over some of the writings of the founding fathers . There were some deists but the great majority were what we call evangelical today . 29 of the Founding fathers even attended what we'd call seminary / bible school. Call for public prayers and fasting many of them . That's not what a deist would do .
@mattsutman1154
@mattsutman1154 2 года назад
Sure! But were they Christian? Christianity is not a religion.
@littleme3597
@littleme3597 Год назад
Wrong. 26 of the 55 signers of the constitution were CLERGY or sons of clergy. No one was jewish. MOST WERE RELIGIOUS. What are you talking about? It was for religious freedoms, that the constitution was founded!!!
@littleme3597
@littleme3597 Год назад
@@mattsutman1154 ALL WERE CHRISTIANS. MOST WERE Episcopalian. A high %., 49?
@pCriistopher
@pCriistopher Год назад
@@frankmontez6853 The "Wall Builders" are known pseudohistorians & Shapiro is a known reactionary. I'll stick with Gordon Wood.
@WgWilliams
@WgWilliams 13 лет назад
@Pisces31660 Lincoln explained this during the America civil war with this speech; Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.
@WarDogLRS
@WarDogLRS 15 лет назад
they have subdued the rancor of malevolence; and broken down the barriers of political animosity and sectarian alienation. On the field of battle, in the solitudes of the uncultivated forest, or in the busy haunts of the crowded city, they have made men of the most hostile feelings, the most distant regions, and diversified conditions, rush to the aid of each other, and feel a special joy and satisfaction that they have been able to afford relief to a Brother Mason. Benjamin Franklin
@VxMarcusAureliusxV
@VxMarcusAureliusxV 11 лет назад
By the way, the most important document in American history aren't the letters of founding fathers, but the Constitution itself. Nowhere does in mention Christ, and only mentions religion in order to prevent a religious test to office. A majority of the signers may have been Christian, but these Christians signed off on a secular document that is the basis for the United States.
@yeboscrebo4451
@yeboscrebo4451 5 лет назад
Marcus Aurelius the secular constitution rests on the foundational Declaration of Independence which boldly declares the divinity of the origins of our rights. Two sister documents meant to be read together.
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
John Adams "Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
@ElasticGiraffe
@ElasticGiraffe 14 лет назад
Enough with the anti-religious and anti-Gordon Wood insults already. If you think all religious people are essentially stupid, then fine. Good for you. Those of you who are calling Prof. Wood an idiot because his account of religion in late colonial America contradicts your less informed opinions need to take a look at his credentials in the description. Clearly he is more than well equipped to present accurately on this topic.
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
Justice Joseph Story, who was appointed to the US Supreme Court by President Madison, said in an 1829 speech at Harvard: "There never has been a period of history, in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundation."
@oldhacks
@oldhacks 15 лет назад
when?
@JonWRowe
@JonWRowe 13 лет назад
@intheechoofangels: Yup that sums up her critique of Barton.
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
James Madison ""Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man toward God."
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Regardless of whether the Founding Fathers were consciously and intentionally Christian, the perspective they shared was that of the Judeo-Christian outlook: we were created by God and are responsible to obey him. I have heard that Washington carried a Book of Common Prayer with him as part of "daily equipment." And he used it.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
"That behavior is the same as religion." Apparently you DO agree with me that all belief systems, even if they deny the existence of God, serve as a faith to guide and direct people. Interesting.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Maybe I should have said axioms and not assumptions. The prof did say we take on trust that the way things work today will be the same tomorrow but it is impossible to prove that true. There are things one must take for granted.
@Keylimedelight
@Keylimedelight 15 лет назад
they were, and some of the best men of there time.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 3 года назад
Of all time!
@rb032682
@rb032682 2 года назад
They were terrorist slavers. Terrorists are never of good character.
@VincentiusSmith
@VincentiusSmith 12 лет назад
@tonyteb No, but try Switzerland, Holland or Scandinavia. You know, a social democratic nation that focuses on a social equilibrium. Also: Those countries are located in Europe, in case you need any help finding them.
@stickman-1
@stickman-1 13 лет назад
I'm not sure the person is fully understands the question. He's confusing "religion" with "Judeo-Christian thoughts." (which is the question asked). This could be due to academics inability to separate "Judeo-Christian thoughts" from "religion." However, if someone wants to be fully informed they should watch some Wallbuilders videos. Search for Wallbuilders or David Barton. This country was not founded on religion, but Judeo-Christian thoughts are everywhere in the Declaration & Constitution.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
I note that Anthonyehooker's many citations from the Founders regarding their faith have been marked as spam. In the course of my discussions here, I had several people chide me for not being logical or rational. Someone presents evidence of the faith of the Founders, and someone else hides it so people will not have to see the evidence. A good scientist or historian does not ignore facts.
@freesk8
@freesk8 15 лет назад
I never said they were founders. I included them in a list of great people that included the founders. Please re-read my post.
@1RadicalOne
@1RadicalOne 15 лет назад
Indeed. I've heard too much "America is a christian nation!" already...
@stevegarton401
@stevegarton401 6 лет назад
No. It is not. Christians were the majority and continue to be but the founders didn't create a Christian nation. Thats just a historical fact and not an opinion. "Creator", "under God", all seeing eye, etc. key founders: John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington.
@jayjayfreeman
@jayjayfreeman 3 года назад
Um, nope. If America were indeed a Christian nation, then the 1st Amendment would have been worded differently. But as it is, our Gov't set up a system where anyone could practice their OWN religion in their own way. Christianity would have to have been mandated in 1787 when the Constitution was ratified. It was not. In fact, many of the Founders were Deists and Unitarians. Sects based on Christian principles, but not the hard core Fundamental kind that keeps pushing this unfounded lie that America is a "Christian Nation." So then, IF America was founded on Christianity, why are there so many other practicing diverse religions OTHER THAN Christianity? I rest my case.
@Aaberg123
@Aaberg123 15 лет назад
Take a political science course, and you might just be able to understand why these men were fantastic men.
@JonWRowe
@JonWRowe 14 лет назад
I am aware of the chart that shows "affiliation" (it came from Dr. ME Bradford of U Dallas); it doesn't show "membership" in these sense of making public affiliations of faith. I am aware of numerous "Christians" on Bradford's chart who were never confirmed and/or never took communion in the churches to which they nominally belonged, i.e., Madison, Washington.
@MultiJesusfreak33
@MultiJesusfreak33 13 лет назад
True, some of the Founding Fathers were not Christian, but why must we jump to the conclusion that they all weren't?
@JonWRowe
@JonWRowe 14 лет назад
WRONG. That chart shows ONLY nominal affiliation. It does NOT show "sworn public confession of biblical faith."
@freesk8
@freesk8 15 лет назад
You are absolutely correct, but they had redeeming qualities as well. We love MLK, in spite of the fact that he was an adulterer who plagiarized parts of his masters thesis. We love Gandhi, in spite of the fact that he was a terrible father. He was cold and demanding, when he was spending time with his son at all. Yeah, Jefferson was a slave owner, but he also fought the greatest tyrannical power of his day and won. He also wrote the Declaration of Indep. A wonderful document!
@stevegarton401
@stevegarton401 Год назад
The fact that some owned slaves did not mean they weren’t against slavery in 1700’s. Times were different then and slaves had been handed down in families. In their letters, Washington, Jefferson and Franklin had discussed abolishing slavery but agreed that they would lose the support of the south and the union would fail, so they agreed to write it into the Constitution and Bill of Rights as if it already existed so that it could be done in the near future when the country was more stable. And that’s exactly what happened. Both Washington and Franklin freed their slaves at their death and were concerned that it would endanger their lives, ability to survive, or put them at risk of being stolen back into slavery. Funny how young people today fail to consider that times were different in the past and there were considerations beyond right and wrong.
@matthewjohn666
@matthewjohn666 15 лет назад
He "forgot" to mention Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin... In any case, the Constitution is a completely secular document. The words "Christianity", "Bible", "Jesus", "God", etc. do not appear at all. And this is the context in which the word "religion" appears: "...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article VI)
@KbcBerlin
@KbcBerlin 11 лет назад
Pre Christian Rome was a place of baths, shaves, civic hygiene, some democracy, justice for citizens, central heating, fine architecture, great building skills. Which was spreading through large parts of its Empire. After Christianity came, Rome fell, (coincidence ?) most of these things vanished, creating a world dominated by superstition, and unreason. Christianity arguably cost Western civilisation 500+ We would have been flying by the time of Henry VIII. Islam likely would not have occurred.
@oldhacks
@oldhacks 15 лет назад
early years of Malcom are great too all you have to do is take out the words "the honerable elijah mahhamed teaches us that..." and you've got some great speeches. it was in his early days that he said his most famous quote "by any means necessary"
@hitheresunshine
@hitheresunshine 14 лет назад
@PatriotWalker76 If you read Jefferson's other writings, such as Notes on the State of Virginia, you'd realize that Jefferson was most likely a deist. He himself stated, in a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely in 1819, "You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know." He also described himself as Epicurean. Some of the Founding Fathers were Christian, yes, yet some didn't really care about religion at all. And how is that video "talking bad" about the Founding Fathers?
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 10 лет назад
The Constitution only references Christianity in the "Sundays excepted clause" but The Declaration of Independence mentions him several times. Samuel Adams made this statement ""Before the formation of this Constitution. ... [t]his Declaration of Independence was received and ratified by all the States in the Union and has never been disannulled." "The Writings of Samuel Adams", to the Legislature of Massachusetts on January 17, 1794. So the Const. did not do away with the Dec. of Ind.
@EmV-si1eu
@EmV-si1eu 4 года назад
What about Washington's prayer at Valley Forge???
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
John Adams "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty,
@mechmat12345
@mechmat12345 11 лет назад
Honest questions, how many books written by atheists that are critical of Christianity have you read? And how many books on evolution have you read that were NOT written by evolution deniers?
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
I had already decided last night that if you replied, I would stop the conversation here. There is no point discussing issues with someone unable to grasp the logical deficiencies of his position. I am 66 & have been a committed Christian since my late teens - studied widely and deeply many of the issues we have talked about as well as others, including the difficulties Christianity has. Nothing else makes more sense, and some other things (materialism) make no sense at all. God bless you!
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Try reading CS Lewis' "Pilgrim's Regress." It is the story of his conversion to Christianity from atheism, He did not want to believe it, but the force of logic led him to become "the most reluctant convert in all England."
@Ghostviperz
@Ghostviperz 15 лет назад
Washington was an Apatheist we need to get this word into the lexicon. I really think he didn't care to much about religion either way despite the evangelical right trying to reinvent him.
@ivlfounder
@ivlfounder 13 лет назад
@FaganRoberts First of all Sagan was an agnostic, second of all he didn't like it when people assumed he was an atheist, and thirdly he saw great wisdom in "myths".
@captainclayman
@captainclayman 12 лет назад
@PadraikKasier "in your experience" yeah i'm sure you've met sooooooooooooo many people to make a fair claim like that.
@PrinceOfLight4
@PrinceOfLight4 13 лет назад
Religions are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies-Thomas Jefferson "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear" ~Thomas Jefferson
@Metalhead121591
@Metalhead121591 12 лет назад
That didn't really answer my initial question. Also, you originally said "theist," not "deist." Deism and theism are very different. Deism is a form of agnosticism. I think you mean to say that a deity was mentioned in the Declaration. The deity mentioned was a "Creator," not a "God," meaning it does not have to refer to a divine power at all. And no, that isn't the reason church and state were separated. It was so religious tyranny wouldn't govern politics. You know, like it does now.
@DianeRiveraLopez
@DianeRiveraLopez 3 года назад
Many of the Founding Father’s were Pastors and President’s of Christian Colleges and Organization. That is Factual.
@MultiJesusfreak33
@MultiJesusfreak33 13 лет назад
@yourtreat2 You have the freedom to believe what you want. No one can prove God in the way you are proposing, because faith is a big part in our relationship with Him. No one should force their beliefs on others, but all of us have the right to believe in what we want. We were given that freedom.
@GnosticAtheist
@GnosticAtheist 14 лет назад
@LambLion777 What are you talking about? We have their own journals, their own words. Are you saying they lied in those texts? What if you have been lied to? What are we to believe? Their own words I would assume would be the most important?
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court said: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." This was said despite the explicit provision in the federal Constitution forbidding any religious test for federal public office.
@gregtorious
@gregtorious 14 лет назад
@AreYouKilluminati you're taking that quote from jefferson way out of context when he says that he swears"upon the alter of god" thats actually sarcasm he is saying that religion is a tyranny that controls ones mind and he is swearing eternal hostility against religion
@EoCx1
@EoCx1 14 лет назад
Why did Mr. Wood not reference the Treaty of Tripoli as evidence for Washington's idea of Christianity in America?
@stevegarton401
@stevegarton401 6 лет назад
Because the Treaty of Tripoli was a public statement by a politician rather than a personal memoir.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Your response to Dr Zacharias tells me a lot more about you than it does about him. I am thankful our acquaintance is limited to a few days of discussion on You Tube. I suspect that regular contact with such bitterness and anger as you exhibit would be most trying. And I am sure that my indifference to what you find intuitively obvious would grate on your nerves as well.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
There is indeed much irrational thought in the public sphere. There is also a great deal of rational thought, much of it by Christians. I was speaking of the four "big" atheists who published anti-Christian books in the last few years, not everyone who does not accept Christianity or who argues against it.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
So everyone gets a seat, but all statements with some basis in an organized religion are counterproductive? Some table! The Founders rejected giving one institutional religious group such as a denomination government approval or a special voice - they did NOT reject believers, speaking as individuals, a voice in governing. And even if the Judeo-Christian worldview came from Egypt, the Founders shared it as their perspective on human nature and society.
@oldhacks
@oldhacks 15 лет назад
ah yes. leaving slavery legal was such a Brilliant move that it ended up causing the bloodiest war America has ever known. Genius! and I'm sure the native Americans think that constitution is quite marvelous as well.
@stevegarton401
@stevegarton401 6 лет назад
Slavery? Most of the founding fathers actually kept their slaves so they could make them free upon their deaths because to free them then would have plunged them into a far worse life. Some slaves had the choice and chose to stay with their owners. And it wasn't possible to free slaves in the constitution. Even though the language clearly stated that "all men were equal", the founders would have lost the support of many, if not most, of the states in declaring independence and forming the continental army to fight the British. Slavery was a vital part of the economies of most states in those days, particlarly those in the south, and the support for independence alone was very close as it was.To cinclude freedom of slaves would have divided the union and Independence would have never happend. Common! This is obviouis just from giving it some thought!
@cameronpruitt8339
@cameronpruitt8339 4 года назад
This is quite a smart man.
@mechmat12345
@mechmat12345 11 лет назад
There's a difference between letting your values inform your outlook on life and trying to `legislate purely religious agendas. Much of what the religious Right is trying to do right now is wholly religious based (like gay marriage bans) and that's unconstitutional, period. Nobody is trying to ban religious people from Congress, we are just asking them to be reflective enough to know they cannot legislate their values if they infringe on the rights of others or violate the Constitution.
@jonjonboi3701
@jonjonboi3701 2 года назад
Nah there are people today that are trying to ban religious people in congress and politics as a whole. Just look at the secular left. Freedom from religious foundation is an example of that. They even opposed to Christian baker from refusing to make the gay wedding cake. They even suppose policies that go against religious freedom
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
Yes and experienced professor needs to read the founders writings. Are you saying he knows better what they meant than they themselves? how rediculous
@thedefendingchamp
@thedefendingchamp 15 лет назад
Exactly. Who gives a shit what religion they were or weren't? It's irrelevant to how this country should be run today.
@intheechoofangels
@intheechoofangels 13 лет назад
@JonWRowe : thoughts on Chris Rodda... "cause when they 'own' the information they can bend it all they want".
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Tell me your basic assumptions about the nature of the universe, its origin, and its purpose (if any) and I will demonstrate that you have a spiritually based outlook on life. It may be NEGATIVELY spiritual (asserting that the spiritual realm does not exist) but it will be spiritual nonetheless. No one can prove their fundamental assumptions, although there are plenty of arguments that show the reasonableness of the Christian faith.
@mechmat12345
@mechmat12345 11 лет назад
I know what it says, I also know what the Constitution (you know, the part that actually lays out the law says).
@RickJaeger
@RickJaeger 12 лет назад
@drfoxcourt; Christianity is not a pill that you take, and suddenly you become good and moral; I know not a single Christian who claims such. If you think that's what we preach, you're dead wrong. It's a constant battle for your soul, not a switch you flip when you convert.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
It is arrogance if certain people (the enlightened atheists, I suppose, if you could chose them) were to take the human race "in the desired direction." Who chooses the direction? What means do they use? How do they enforce the process? What happens to those who seek something different? These are but some of the questions raised by human beings trying to do "selective breeding" among themselves to move "in the desired direction." Just pointing out the logical inferences from your comment.
@JonWRowe
@JonWRowe 13 лет назад
You may wish to read Chris Rodda ripping Barton to shreds.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
Read the Declaration of Independence and tell me what the equality of all human beings before the law is based on.
@VincentiusSmith
@VincentiusSmith 12 лет назад
@tonyteb It's more than an opinion, an opinion is based on perception, this is more of an objective statement based on the fact that the church have justified most of the historical animosities during the last millennium. Anything from the Spanish Inquisition to the holocaust. All due to right-wing economically conservative Judeo-Christians. Or the adjacency thereof.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
I have to admit my reading over the last several years has been focused more on theology, history, politics, and psychology than it has on biology. I haven't been able to read atheist attacks on Christianity; they seem to be more "I hate what Christians do & believe" than anything else. If I knew of a good mid-level book on evolution I'd take a good look; most seem to be either elementary or so technical that non-biologists get lost.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
See "in their minds." They know they cannot get a law passed to approve of robbery, but THEY think they are entitled and justified to take what they want when they want it.
@WarDogLRS
@WarDogLRS 15 лет назад
Let the possessor of them be expatriated, shipwrecked or imprisoned, let him be stripped of everything he has got in the world, still those credentials remain, and are available for use as circumstances require. The good effects they have produced are established by the most incontestable facts of history. They have stayed the uplifted hand of the destroyer; they have softened the asperities of the tyrant; they have mitigated the horrors of captivity;
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
The Roman Empire was collapsing under the weight of corruption, inept & selfish leaders, & most people wanting the fruits of an empire without having to exercise the personal disciplines needed to have an orderly society. Arguably Christianity preserved the Empire for a few centuries longer than it would have lasted without it. When the Vandals etc invaded all structure but the Church vanished & it provided a structure for society to continue. The Vandals could fight but not rule effectively.
@StocksIn60Seconds
@StocksIn60Seconds 3 года назад
Washington did kneel during the First Continental Congress though. In a prayer session. September 6, 1774 they combined across denominations to pray by reading Psalm 85. Patrick Henry, James Madison, and John Hancock were there as well and the old Quakers. Don’t say he never kneeled because that simply isn’t true. Source: www.rcan.org/prayer-and-declaration-independence
@logikylearguments6852
@logikylearguments6852 3 года назад
He said he never kneeled "in his episcopal church". The first continental congress was held at carpenters hall, it's not even a church, and not even in the same state as the two churches Washington attended.
@atlproductions216
@atlproductions216 2 года назад
Washington was a Christian. It’s pretty clear. However yes people like Jefferson definitely where not.
@82abhilash
@82abhilash 15 лет назад
For those of you who think after hearing this that Democracy sucks, I would recommend, 'Democracy, the God that Failed' by Hans Herman Hoppe.
@oldhacks
@oldhacks 15 лет назад
good shit
@mechmat12345
@mechmat12345 11 лет назад
Your first statement is absolutely true.There's nothing wrong with that statement if you have the wherewithal to understand it's implications.Do you believe the opinion of a Muslim who tells you all must convert to his religion or die is productive?I hope not. Your second paragraph has never been contested. Your final paragraph is not true in any sense other than that they shared universal believes consistent with almost every religion and worldview.Personal freedom is NOT a Christian concept.
@VxMarcusAureliusxV
@VxMarcusAureliusxV 11 лет назад
You mean an experienced professor, best selling author, considered an expert on American history, needs to read the founders writings? Perhaps David Barton needs to read the founders' writings and not just select certain documents that support his belief system.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
On what basis is it irrelevant? Having a creator is essential to viewing us as equal before the law.
@willsbury5150
@willsbury5150 3 года назад
but we are not equal before the law...
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 3 года назад
@@willsbury5150 I didn't say that we were; there are regrettable, and at times horrifying, lapses from the ideal. However, even to have that ideal with any philosophical basis, a creator who intentional made humanity is necessary. If we are but the product of matter plus time plus chance, coming into existence for no reason and staying in existence for no purpose, then there is no reason to value all lives, but simply to strive for the most power and the most possessions - and the only reason for holding to "equal before the law" is enlightened self-interest.
@willsbury5150
@willsbury5150 3 года назад
@@AnglicanXn I do not believe that there is any objective value to anything or do I believe that there is any objective morality. It is humans who assign values and morals to things. That's why our morals are clearly biased in favor of ourselves rather than life that humans tend to prescribe a lower value. Human morality emerged because it was necessary for our species to flourish, and we are still a morally developing race.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 3 года назад
@@willsbury5150 what you say here is a perfect example of what I said just before this. You have an inherited set of values from our historical heritage of Greek philosophy and the 1500 years of the Christian predominance in the West - but if your view becomes the dominant view of our culture, within a few generations we will be in a situation where the strong arrange everything to benefit themselves on a staggering scale.
@beachguy20
@beachguy20 11 лет назад
I dont dare say that anything unintelligent as we know of of now knowingly created its evolved forms unto which we are today. If we want to point to a true creator it would be "mother nature". Its such a perfect term.The mother is usually the one who takes cares of ou and supplies you with what you need to survive while "the male gods" are your father who tells you to do as he says or hell punish you. to think that people wrote a book of religion that was based on how their parents raised them
@lease2coach170
@lease2coach170 8 лет назад
It is certainly the case that *the great majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians*--mostly various flavors of Protestant. There were a few Deists mixed in, but no actual atheists that I'm aware of. ...Which makes it that much more impressive that they *consciously and deliberately* crafted a _secular_ national government, with separation of church and state.
@stevegarton401
@stevegarton401 6 лет назад
The complete list of 89 Founding Fathers were all members of Churches and could have been devout but The Framers are who the historians refer to as not being emotionally religious or devout. That would be the key founders: John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington. All are thought to have been Masons and while they were members of churches and often spoke publically as Christians, in their private papers most of these men were very clear that they were diest, believers in a Creator, but not Christians. As a group, they were not emotional or devout Christians by any means. Hence, "by their Creator" and "nation under God", "all seeing eye" etc..
@ThethomasJefferson
@ThethomasJefferson Год назад
@@stevegarton401 I see you have not actually read their own writings then, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington, and Benjamin Franklin all very well versed in their beliefs if that is what you are referring too. Thomas Jefferson in many of his writings talk about being a Christian and talks about spreading Christianity across this nation, and in fact, he is the one that did the northwest ordinance, and in that it has religions and anti-slavery, in the declaration of independence which he is the main Arthur of you can see it in that, he is the one that put and end to the Virginia state church that was persecuting the other churches, he is the one that started the church in the United States capital building, and the United States supreme Court, he gave money to bible societies to have bibles printed.
@ThethomasJefferson
@ThethomasJefferson Год назад
@@stevegarton401 John Adams was the one that stated I am a religious animal, and so much more. George Washington had pastors and rabbis at his inauguration, he is the one that started the places your hand on the Bible there also. He is the one that started the Christian values in our military, the list goes on with this men. You have this mindset that they being Freemason they where not Christian, you have a 21st century mindset of what is a Freemason. The Freemason has changed several times since the late 1700s.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
You have a spiritually-based outlook on life. You may not admit it but you do. Your views may not come from an organized faith, but you assume certain things about the nature of the world and about the nature of human beings. I expect that someone taught you most of what you are saying; I have certainly heard it before. Not everything in Christianity is borrowed (and I maintain that nothing is borrowed) - no other religion or lack of religion has the concept of grace.
@LambLion777
@LambLion777 14 лет назад
Something I myself believe in, is not to steal from people. I have a good track record of riding myself of such people. 4.) just because people (I for one) have faced death in the eye, does not give anyone the right to do anything crazy. Expressing of felt wrong is sometimes right to do and sometimes not. Americans have the privileges because of natural laws understood by the Christian founders who made this Country. The problem is not everyone has read the Documents that gave them those rights.
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
So you will not quote "All men are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR"? Interesting.
@ivlfounder
@ivlfounder 13 лет назад
@FaganRoberts "No atheist states they KNOW there is no god." No true scotsmen? Seriously?
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
The Constitution of the State of Massachusetts (1780) stated: The Governor shall be chosen annually; and no person shall be eligible to this office, unless, at the time of his election… he shall declare himself to be of the Christian religion. Chapter VI, Article I [All persons elected to State office or to the Legislature must] make and subscribe the following declaration, viz. “I, ___, do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have firm persuasion of its truth.”
@MultiJesusfreak33
@MultiJesusfreak33 13 лет назад
@Oztintatious Where do you propose we go? We are unique as a country, because we established capitalism here. Where else is there a philosophy like that? And what makes Rousseau's statements credible, anyway? He is one man with one opinion. I'm going to need a bit more than a poor source like that to accept your opinions. Even that might not be enough.
@jasonivancontreras9340
@jasonivancontreras9340 10 лет назад
@edohiguma true to an extent but there were crusades, or something like them before islam arrived on the scene. Christianity and islam tend to have this inherent intolerance for other peoples beliefs, with it's universalist ideology and it's reliance on state power(especially nicene christianity beginning with constantine).
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
It's been interesting, although it is hard to carry on a rational discussion in 500-character exchanges. Again, we hold differing fundamental assumptions, so it is no wonder we disagree so strongly. I do not think you are an idiot - but I do think we are quite committed to our positions.
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ." Patrick Henry. "The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institution of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (From The Rights of Colonists, 1772) Sam Adams
@stevegarton401
@stevegarton401 6 лет назад
Simply not supported by historical fact. The Key formers (key founders: John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington.) mostly belonged to Christian churches but only believed in a single Deistic Creator. When people speak of the founders they are generally referring to the key fomers and writers of government. Not the signers and supporters of which there are 89-95. It is a fact that the public was nearly all Chrisitan at the time and its been said that it would not have been possible for Christian formers to create a non-secular government. - I am a conservative by the way, but also a historian.
@tonytebliberty
@tonytebliberty 12 лет назад
@TheFacelessActivist well im a christian and im a libertarian so whats your point
@LambLion777
@LambLion777 14 лет назад
@dave : 1st off not everyone who is religious are nuts. Some religious people think the same about people, who don't believe in God. 2.) The morals of any political person is, who they are as a person. Where they received their beliefs from? So as a person, if they truly rid of ones morals they become evil. 3.) It's true, people without money do sometimes, crazy things. When people steal valid creative ideas from others, that is a different story, that is where law comes in and is very good.
@idicula1979
@idicula1979 15 лет назад
I think when consevativea speak about god they have an absolute way of speaking about him, however where liberals like myself mention the name of god we mean it in a much more intangible and personal way , so as to not confuse religion with secularism and not to confuse issues such as gay marrige, abortion, and even nationalism.
@LeftWithRight
@LeftWithRight 3 года назад
Jefferson’s bible is called the moral teachings of Christianity not the jefferson bible and he cut out a lot more than that
@anthonyehooker
@anthonyehooker 11 лет назад
1. Samuel Adams Father of the American Revolution, Signer of the Declaration of Independence I . . . recommend my Soul to that Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins. Last Will and Testament
@freesk8
@freesk8 15 лет назад
I respect them all. Founding fathers, MLK, Gandhi and M X. I prefer the later Malcolm X to his earlier years.
@brianparent
@brianparent 4 года назад
Don't forget Martin Luther before Martin Luther King and William Tyndale, and The Protestant Reformation. Oh..there is a lot that people don't know when it comes to the past. I bet I can teach what led The United States to become The United States. My direct ancestor's brother's wife, Susannah Holmes, was the great grand daughter of Roger Williams (Encyclopedia 1636) and grand daughter of Obediah Holmes (Encyclopedia) whom President Abe Lincoln was a descendant of.
@shiphrahhopeful
@shiphrahhopeful 13 лет назад
I just recently watched this excellent documentary, " The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers", and discovered that the Founding Fathers were all 33rd degree freemasons. You will be shocked to discover what the Founding Fathers actually believed in the own words!
@AnglicanXn
@AnglicanXn 11 лет назад
There is NO ONE who is without a spiritually-based outlook on life. The assumption that the Judeo-Christian outlook was based on Egyptian views is itself based on the assumption that there is no Yahweh (or other gods, most likely). The Constitution forbids the establishment of a state-sponsored religion. It does NOT forbid those with religious convictions from seeking to have their values reflected in law. Why should the irreligious have the only voice? That is not democratic.
@ujean56
@ujean56 13 лет назад
OMG - that was then and this is now. Start thinking for yourself!
@brianparent
@brianparent 4 года назад
It doesn't matter, the speaker is very wrong in explaining who our U.S. Founding Fathers were and those that led to the founding of The United States from within.
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