How should I size my brass?- How Case Neck Tension and Case Volume Changes 

Glad it helps you guys! That's why we do it.

^^^^ This is the wonder die set. You need a Forster with micrometer seating die and that is the golden combination. Basically the Redding Body Die first, Lee Collet Die for the neck and a Forster Seating Die with micrometer to finish it off.

Awesome, thank you!

Hi Dave, Thank you! I don't plan on this changing the world but hopefully illustrate what the differences are when someone asks what the differences are. I don't want to overload the new guys, but I want them to be able to see the data behind the results. I don't want to be the guys that says, "it this way or your an idiot." Unfortunately so many are blind to the fact that everyone has different applications and goals. You pick the best for you. Not sure how many videos its going to take but if you see there is something I am missing make sure you comment!

Any time!

Thank you!

This project has had so many set backs I embarrassed to say. I initially was not going to make a series out of it, but I want to cover it so that everyone can see all the differences. I am sure many will prefer to see one test, look at some groups and be done, but I think it wouldn't show what really needs to be covered it you want see the differences. Hope you guys comment and keep me honest if I am missing something!

It will be coming, but I get the feeling most want a let me see the groups video and be done. I don't think a legitimate comparison can be done with out running at least a small ladder test and a COAL test.

@@BoltActionReloading If "you" (LOL) were to effort this a detailed design of experiments would need to be part of it, that said, the variables which change over time would affect its long term repeatability. Unless I'm turning my necks, I use Hornady's match grade sizing die with the appropriate neck bushing. To insure uniformity I use a neck mandrel to set the final neck tension. Thanks for all the hard work and detailed videos!

Glad you liked it!

So far the SAC stuff is really impressive. Don't get me wrong for the price it should be. It is on my list of things to do.

@@BoltActionReloading I agree. I have two of their dies - Ive had the whidden click dies that are great too but I think that the shoulder/neck bushing solves a lot of the problems with bushing dies, throw in the ability to mandrel and now you have a better solution than the body sizing/lee collet combination that some BR guys recommend. Pricy but I think worth it. I could make the argument that this is one of the places where you should spend your money. The fact that they are a gunsmith is a plus too. I have to tell you that my 6.5x47 is perfectly chambered (something Im not used to as I come from the factory gun world). Makes life so much easier when sizing and figuring out headspace as well as bullet seating (especially if you throat for a particular one). At my desired jump, the bullet seats perfectly at the neck/shoulder junction (with a little room to go back and forward). At Jam, it pretty much sits at maximum COAL to fit the magazine. Pretty neat.

That's what I use and I see no reason to change...best $10-15 you can spend on a die.

They will matter when we look the velocity and pressure data for this test. Its coming.

I have been interested in a Bergara but never went down that path. Hope it works well for you!

I have the Bergara in 6.5 CM it’s great, for just bench shooting the Ruger PR is a little better. For all around use the Bergara is a better choice

Hi Cody, it's coming when we start dialing in the load for groups.

I think starting with good brass is the primary factor. You have to be able to truthful ask yourself "can I make this better that it already is?" If not don't turn. My earlier tests, crude as they were, showed slight measurable improvement with Hornady brass. I haven't tried with Lapua, but unless your chamber requires it, it may not be worth the time. I will likely circle around and cover this at some point but my neck turning system is Hornady. Does it make sense to turn $100 / 100 brass on a $100 tool? I think the IDOD is a very neat tool but its out of my price range for next year and I am guessing out of 98% of my audiences budget too.

@@BoltActionReloading as always, thank you for the input and responses. Makes complete sense. Using Lapua, ADG and Peterson brass now. However, ADG and Lapua weren’t, initially, available for 300 PRC though. Had to use Hornady for awhile.👍🏼

I truly think the cost of "good" brass is pretty much worth it in lifespan alone, not even adding the benefit of just being more consistent. Only way to know is test.

The internal rod sets the diameter, I’m not sure more pressure would do anything good or valuable. I’ve always heard and been told to get or make a smaller rod for more tension

HI Rick, I am always testing so there are a lot of options. The last large lot of 6.5 CM I processes was with the SAC die. I will cover it in a upcoming video at some point. If you looking for a bushing diee that won't break the bank the Redding S die with SAC bushings would be my go to.

@@BoltActionReloading thanks!

Have you by chance bought a SAC expander mandrel and used it in you SAC die? If so, I would be curious to hear your results. Thanks!

@@kenhatley1041 Sorry, I have not! I don’t have any SAC dies,mandrels, only bushings. The SAC bushing, along with the LE Wilson “tapered” bushings fit into the Redding, Whidden, Hornady, LE Wilson sizing dies. What I can say is, using the SAC and LE Wilson “tapered bushings” has eliminated most of my runout issues! And that is using those bushing to size the neck, along with using an expander ball to set the neck tension! Which is contrary to the conventional wisdom that expander balls cause runout! YMMV.

@@58harwood Thanks so much for your feedback!

You can use them in a redding s die. Standard dies don't take bushings.

At that point its the only size I had tested with SAC bushing. I have a set now so I plan to test a very wide range. I had been waiting for a 288", which I now have. Now just to find the time.

Hello, I really think that neck turning is its own subject. I was hoping someone wanting to know what dies they should pick for just normal brass sizing would find what they needed to know. Any more many guys claim that they wouldn't neck turn if their chambers accommodated un turned brass. Probably sometime, in a different video series.

Hi Jack, Just because the weight is the same doesn't mean it will perform the same. I could see trying to get in the ball park when it come to finding components, but if you factor the extra time that would be required I just assume spend the cash up front rather than find out I should have from the beginning.

Glad you enjoy it. Everything matters its just a matter of how much it matters. I know some would prefer a 5 minute video on this topic that says just pick this, but I don't think there is one perfect answer for everyone. I just hope the series will illustrate if differences to those who truly want to understand the difference.

@@BoltActionReloading I’m a firm believer that one should at least know the best process and highest goal so that all the micro decisions along the way can point towards that. Falling short of that goal, intentionally or otherwise, does not mean failure, it just might be good enough for that task. You present product and process as information, not as doctrine, which allows people to make educated decisions on what works best for them. I learned a lot from your channel, really appreciate what you’re doing here.

Yes it is one of the dies in this test.

@@BoltActionReloading Pardon me on that one, I swear I heard you saying that they were out of stock and you were wanting to get one to review. Potentially I mixed it up with a prior video just in front of it and must of missed the part on this video when you were talking about it. Sorry for my fumble on that one

No appology needed. In the previous video I mentioned that I couldn't find one. It came in stock as I was loading the first round after fire forming. I hope you find the data interesting!

@@BoltActionReloading I always do!

Hi Phil, That is a lot of variation. Are some annealed and some not? I just ran about 300 LC 223 cases through my dillon 750 with a bushing bump die (all annealed) and I don't think I have more than about .001 variance that I sampled in the whole lot.

@@BoltActionReloading Dang. Yeah, they were annealed but the drill/blow torch method.

I would be very concerned that you are possibly doing more damage than good with that annealing method. I know no one wants to hear that, but that is my guess unless your die is moving that much.

@@BoltActionReloading Hmmm... I am using a small base die. I wonder if that will give me different results since the whole body is being squished back?

Hi Tim, Its a starting place. Please note my next comments are not to attack you but simply to try and explain my point of view for the structure of the test. Imagine your new and there are 50 ways to do something and everyone tells you something different. All the methods in this test are methods that people have told me to do over time in my comments section. (I guarantee over time there will be comments on this video asking why didn't you test this way?) Who has tested all these different methods and where is their data? Welcome to the life of a new reloader. What is the difference? Does it make a difference? (the most important question) Should I spend $15 on a die or $800? Not everyone has an arbor press, should I tell every new guy to add that to the must have list? This just puts one more obstacle in the way of getting started. (I would argue that some of these variances would be difficult to see with and arbor press) Does everyone need to use neck lube some say yes and some no. You have to isolate these variables. If I put them all into one video not only would it be a nightmare, no one would watch it, therefore no one would learn from it but me. Some of these things will be obvious to some but not others. 59% of my audience has reloaded 5 years or less. In the end this will be part of a playlist that tries to show all of these different factors so people that want to know can learn. Hope this makes sense.

​@@BoltActionReloading I was not trying to be critical, I'm a big, big fan and longtime subscriber. Keep 'em coming! However, I'm just frustrated with the endless torrent of advice we get, often conflicting. I don't have the time or budget to do all the testing I'd like. In the end it's about achieving our best results under the practical constraints of time and resources. Are force curves differences important? Are case volume differences important? If so, we need criteria to let us know when the variation is significant enough to require attention. In a narrow sense, the fact that variables can be quantified only has value when we can relate them to objectives. For example, the latest spate of videos on primer seating/crush begs the real question of what difference does it make to my objectives. One expert tells us primer crush is critical, another says just buy good brass and move on. Diagnosing why one is not getting the accuracy hoped for is a daunting prospect, especially in these times of scarce components. How does one navigate all the helpful and often conflicting advice we get? I'm looking for the biggest bangs for my bucks.

Hi Tim, no worries. I don't really expect anyone besides me is crazy enough to do it is all. The seating force charts are "mostly" to illustrate what's going on. How much of the neck is really sized and the resulting seating force. (do you want a different bushing size?) My example is what most directions and advice that I have heard, but I have also heard folks say that the seating force here is too high. I hoped someone that had a number in mind could do some quick adjustments and maybe have to buy one more bushing they didn't need. If you look at the charts closely you can see every little detail of what the dies are really doing. (its very hard to articulate this for me though) I too am frustrated with some stating that (for example) concentricity (or runout, they are not interchangeable but most use them that way right or wrong) is not important and the same person 2 week later stating they do it this way because its more concentric. At the end of the day, everyone wants to hit the target. With these charts hopefully you can get a ball park idea what (if anything) changes if you do or don't use a mandrel, see how much lower seating force by using a collet and how they all compare. Like I tried to say, this is a multi part series. I couldn't think of another way of doing it. For kicks between the time you responded to me last someone asked why I didn't neck turn too. It never ends.

@@BoltActionReloading LOL

Hi Ray, I agree all that matters at the end of the day is what you can achieve on target. I am trying to lay the groundwork for a legitimate test to illustrate all the differences when you pick a method what is different between them. This is just one part if it. Some guys know, but a lot don't, and unfortunately asking questions frequently invites ridicule. When you pick a die, I just hope people understand what they are getting.

In my honest opinion, these videos have kept me from buying 150-250 dollar bushing die sets for each caliber I have. I’m thankful I found the BAR channel before I went down the “neck sizing only” rabbit hole. Could’ve wasted a ton of money on bushing dies. After watching these videos, seeing data, and hearing what method the pros use, I stuck with FL sizing with an expander mandrel for seating consistency. I’m a weekend range warrior, but I’m getting great results. And as a newer reloader, I appreciate these videos. They save me time and money.

Sir you are missing the point. First the shot @ 4:44 is of another video where the author tells people to stop neck sizing only. (Its a bit well known in reloading circles at this point) I am not telling anyone to not size the neck of the case.

I apologize I should have started my comment better. Reloading circles yes, noobs that are looking into reloading no. When a new reloader heads to RU-vid to gather info, your videos are there pretty high up the list and there is so much info in them. I love that. Doesn’t matter if I agree or disagree with you or various others I still really enjoy the content. But for a new guy sometimes the info sways the way of you should get the die that is more consistent or has a more ‘premium’ brand without seeing any actual bullet holes. I just don’t believe in this even if it is ‘better’. I recently had a friend just get into shooting long range. He said he didn’t want to reload because it would cost him over 2000 to get started. WHAT?! He figured he needed the high end gear to shoot well. He sends me links to your videos all the time. He’s a pretty smart guy but yet fell into the premium means necessary trap. Since it would be so expensive to start up he decided to shoot factory ammunition. That doesn’t help us reloaders. We need as many people in the sport so manufacturers can afford to invest in more manufacturing, more R&D which in turn produces more product on shelves and better products for you and me. So I convinced him the more he shoots the better he will shoot. Reloading is the route. Start with the stuff you can afford and move up from there.

Also if Cortina’s methods were perfect he would win every match he competes in no? He also has some excellent videos but his content isn’t for noobs either.

Bud the name of his channel is BOLT ACTION Reloading. Most people would assume that he will be reloading for RIFLE Cartridges.

Momma drop you on your head when you were a baby?

The name of his channel is "Bolt Action Reloading" what part of that didn't you understand? SMH🙄

@@Johnny-jr2lq did you know ruger makes a bolt action 357 mag bolt action ? There are a lot of bolt type Guns out there of bolt action.

@@johnbailey9682 if you can size pistol brass 12 different ways, make a video of it and post it, hell i would watch it. until then use that thing you call a brain and dont bitch about the good information that was just shared with you.