im confused how someone could even think of this army without using a fire wizard, and probably also include 1 or 2 hashut wizards. It just makes the army better in every way to apply large areas of fire weakness and slows. Plus the chaos dwarf heroes are all really tanky and good for holding the line for ranged units. Its a no brainer move. Edit: Oh ya, also the archers would probably be the worst tier 1 goblin unit to use for auto resolve. The other 2 units would have higher stats which would give better auto resolve results. So the fact this guy said this was meant to be an auto resolve doom stack and he got better results with it speaks volumes.
I think the maker of the doomstack wanted the Hobgoblin Archers to succeed on their own and showcase their strength. And a strong Wizard can kill so many units the rest of the army becomes unimportant.
@@Praiokles yes, but a fire wizard adds kindle flame and a hashut with ashstorm slows and adds even more fire damage, then the goblins just melt enemy units
@@Praiokles One of the strengths of this army is how much more a fire wizard and hashut wizard enables it compared to other armies. A wizard is pretty core to this armies identity. Plus you want more heroes in an archer doomstack to begin with to help tank. Its actually just harming the showcase of this units doomstack and not realistic outside the first 20 turns in a Zhatan the black campaign. And a doomstack generally wants to showcase a unit in its best setup. A sneaky gitz army could actually perform just as well, if not better then this army did in this battle without magic. But when magic is included for both armies, this army would start to perform a LOT better in open field combat.
I think Zhatan the Black is probably the best choice for leading this army in terms of buffing them, the problem is this army isn't the best choice for Zhatan.
@Vojtěch Martinec I think if you play as either of the other Chorf LLs and you confederate Zhatan, he is a good choice for this stack if you don't have a lot of money for another high level stack. It punches way above its weight.
That army is really missing a magic caster. Ash Storm would have done some serious work with that stack. The slow and fire weakness would be worth it's weight and then some.
Armor is probably the biggest issue. I think a metal wizard would be useful, especially for super high armor SEs. A Metal +Hashut/Fire is probably the best choice
Just did a campaign as Zatan and rolled into Cathay with thousands of dirt cheap hobgoblins. The only thing standing in my way is the framrate as I load hundreds of thousands of units in a seige battle lol.
this is what i did with vampires after i bought my new pc recently. i spammed so many zombies that the enemy just couldnt kill all of them just because now i finally can.
I have a similar stack with a few of the sneaky hobgoblins, a fire wizard and a generic lord. Ultra cheap army and great for dealing with the weaker parts of an enemies territory. Really like that legendary hero, he brings something actually unique to the table.
to be a good doomstack would be better using a mele lord with a fire wizard on it, so if autoresolve fails you can cheese it with magic, if you add that could be a pretty good crapstack
The good thing is, that with Gorduz you can make a pretty early game hobgoblin "doomstack", since other ones take a bit of time and resources. Like legend I would go with a little different composition. For starters a generic lord, than a castellan (for the campaign movement/ammor) and at least one wizard, to give fire weakness (hashut or fire). I even tend to add two or three dwarf units to tank damage in case I don't have enough heroes.
since the archers don't have a lot of range or armor they will get wrecked by any enemy army that has decent archers in it. Would dread to fight cathay with this for example.
I was surprised how strong hobgoblins were after pointedly refusing to even construct their building for most of the campaign. I looked at their statline in comparison to their cost and though "that can't be right". Then you get the unique hero who buffs them to the moon...
I mean hobgoblin armies are really good early game but fall off hard mid to late. Late game they are only good with Mr. Backstabben or as extra garrison.
They hold up really well in late game with a lore of hashut and a lore of fire caster in the army. Ash Storm + Kindleflame + shots from the lord lowering fire resistance + maybe vial of hashut and they'll melt stuff just like the chorf guns. Guns are obviously better and benefit from all that as well, but guns are limited and hobgoblins are infinite. And cheap. Only thing they struggle with is longer range units, but those can be dealt with by sneaky gits or taurus units usually.
@@josephtucker8456 This stack handles long range units pretty well because of stalk. They also have vanguard deployment to help with that in many scenarios. The only time you can't start in range of the enemy is when they are defending and they start near the edge of the map to wait for reinforcements. But stalk helps there.
I think if you were going to use a legendary lord for this, it'd probably be better off with Astrogoth. Sure, you miss out on the melee defense/armor buff, but Astrogoth has the kindleflame passive and hashut ash storm spell in his arsenal, that way instead of multiple demonsmith wizards like I see some people suggesting, you can grab a couple bull centaur heroes to hold things back better for the archers.
You need kindle flame or ash storm to make this more viable. I did this with a generic overseer lord, Gorduz, one Daemonsmith and one castellan, yes I used a couple hero slots but I can do great crowd control plus with a flying lord and a flying smith I can bait great traps for my stalking hobs. For the castellan I used the stalking one with the shotgun as he has a flash bang to slow the enemy down.
if you're gonna use Hobgoblin archers, you need to get a couple of Hashut/Fire casters for Ashstorm and kindleflame, cause those buff the damage they do with their flaming attacks
I love the lords/heroes that bring buffs to units - it's fun to have an army of weaker units that is buffed I hated when they nerfed the shit out of the red tree in WH3.
How do you build them? I'm in the mid-game of my campaign and I can't say they're performing that great. Against Khislev, I'm losing the range fight hard and not faring much better in melee. Gorduz's army is fine, but I have plenty of overseer cheap stacks that need some extra punching power. Great to support a dwarf army with bodies and fast cav, though, and act as bait for ambushes (raid with gobbo cheap stack, ambush next to it with dwarf+artillery army).
@@kirkcrawford5091 Ooh! Army. Sorry, I read armies. Fair enough. It makes sense to mix. I just expanded too fast and focused on materials to build instead of factories. As the industrial complex is coming online, caps are less of an issue now.
I started playing again, and was confused by why your units move so much faster when you play than when I play. I just figured it out, I watch on 2x speed.... *facepalm*
I seriously think Zhatan's Armour ability needs to be replaced with a generic 15-20 ward save when activated. None of this silly build-up ward save from dmg received, dumb shit.
WTF? When unit is broken AI does not attack it? Since when? Is very hard battle dificulty actualy easier than normal? AI just lets your units leave battlefield instead of pinning them down and wipeing them out? WTF CA?!
ungor raiders and greenskin goblin archers have better missile damage stats. just saying. Kazrak with few heroes for tanking and ungor stuck would do much better. i am in Beastman campaign turn 400 and Kazraks ungor army is stil viable. i do not know why, because their missiles have no armor piercing. but they seem to bring down armored constructs and monsters just fine.
4:30 LMAO the way Zhatan sounds is so deep/aggressive middle aged warlord sounding, and I love it. It's exactly how I imagined him to sound. 8:12 damn, look at all those dead Greenskins. 8:48 Wait, (9:44 interesting) why does legend hate this item.
because its buff is pointless. Each time you activate the ability you have to wait and take damage before it provides anything. But when the ability runs out, you go back to zero so the next time you activate it, you have to take damage again before it does anything. It's a poorly thought ability that pales in comparison to lords like Be'lakor who have an active ability that instantly gives 40% ward save
No large or ultra on my potato pc lol medium scale low settings lol still fun tho I have a habit of starting a campaign getting 120+ turns and then decide to start a new one with a new faction and come back later
i think it’s inaccurate to call it a doomstack, it’s better to call it something like an “efficiency stack”. it’s really cheap and punches well above its weight, but it’s not the strongest thing you can do, so it’s great for early game.
@@extratayodancer nah crapstack usually just means a stack of crap, a crapstack for the chorfs would be orc/goblin spam, don't think this would qualify as crapstack
It's less a Zhatan-Doomstack and more a Gordo-Doomstack obviously. And early game Hobgobbos can be very effective and strong. In my experience the biggest problem, campaign-wise is that Gordo levels really slow and all the juicy buffs he can give take forever/maybe too long to kick in. Also i wouldn't have picked Archers i guess but w/e.
That stack needs a Fire Wizard. You can debuff/buff Fire very nicely with Chaos Dwarves. There's a RU-vid video out there that shows Hobgoblin Archers just melting anything.
Armor of Gazrakh should be a passive that gives ward save equal to 1/2 the percent of HP you’ve lost. So for example if you’ve lost 90% HP you’d get 45% ward save. That would be very powerful but not OP because you have to lose most of your health to get high ward save. They could even make it 1/3 or 1/4 capped at 25% if they want it to be not too strong.
I was really unimpressed with Zhatan's unique armor, ditched it for the barrier shield you can get from trade convoys with Chaos and that makes considerably stronger. Also, In my experience Zhatan is really decent at killing characters and SEMs quicky, with HKB popped he can do 1.2k damage easy. Killed Skrag before he even made it through the barrier.
I’d actually be interested in a video that went through the best possible Auto resolve armies for each faction. My friends and I play together and so we obviously auto resolve as many fights as possible which means I never get to play vamps since they suck in auto resolve.
I prefer using Hobgoblin Wolf Archers over regular archers. The maneuverability makes a huge difference. But yeah, like everyone else here said this needed more heroes for fire weakness and tanking.
Given the boni Zhatan gives his army, i would give him expensive combi units, as he gives them more ammo they can shoot longer, in melee they hit harder thanks to his melee buffs and since they are costly, he reduces their price by more money, increasing the overall economic efficiency of the army as a whole.
I usually make a generic melee lord my hobgob lord with gorduz in it, but he is really missing a caster, and it's such a relatively small investment for a LL and LH army
I can tell you how to make that doomstack *way* more powerful! Now get ready, here it gets complicated! Get a sorcerer of Hashut. Get him the kindling of flame passive and the upgraded ash storm. Let him hit his shot (it causes negative fire resistance) let him cast the ash storm, which adds more on it's own, on top of the kindling of flame passive. The enemies suffer so much increased fire damage and hobgobbo archers have flaming arrows, 2 of them can take out Skarbrand in absolutely no time at all! It's so damn busted and cheap to get a viable doomstack out of it! I love it! TL;DR: stack fire resistance penalties as chorfs for an easy win!
I wish they had the Hashut drill mechanic in I.E because the relics can give great buffs to armies, having the rune relic that increases range by 10% would’ve buff the army even a little bit more.
you actually get the items even in IE, when you start achieving victory conditions... makes me even more sad for cathay, who dont get legendary items on their lords (because they get them from caravans), when chaos dwarfs DO get them in addition to those from the caravans and then they even get the super juiced up items that buff up entire armies :D
I thought long and hard about whether to put other hobgoblins in the army or just archers. In the end I wanted a traditional doomstack of a single unit. My actual Godruz armies usually consist of sneaky gits and a fire and/or hashut sorcerer, a couple of wolf rider archers, an artillery piece (whichever I have available) and is led by a generic overseer instead of Zhatan. BUT... I feel like that is a lot less fun to watch than 18 archers with 42 MA and 52 MD.
The armour is a good ability for multiplayer when being sniped by other players E.g waywatcher snipe basically means you get a 30% ward save when attacked by them since the damage is so high straight away
It’s funny how CA balances for multiplayer when the vast majority of Warhammer players have never played a multiplayer match, this is why we have situations where Zhlatan’s armor is trash but they’ll probably never buff it because it’s alright in multiplayer
Chaos dwarfs seems more like a modded faction, due to how stupidly overpowered they are. Really cool faction though, however kinda shame how terribly overtuned they are.
I found in my campaign where I ended up at war with all the west humans and Dwarves earlier then I wanted to, that you can take out much more powerful armies with the chaos Dwarves by using all their army bombardment ability over a course of multiple battles, in order to take out a dwarf army with fire arty and fire troopers as well as multiple heros imp cav with grenade launchers and stuff, us my non full stack of goblins with some archers, cutthroat, assassin, and 2 units of wolf riders lead by a fire mage dwarf, I had to essentially fly my lord around casting on the but nearly dying to the imp cav that was faster and had fire well moving well bombarding them with abilities then running them around with my cav witch were still slower then theirs just to buy cool down time and trying to take out their arty with assassin, ultimately lost a cav unit and retreated the other assassin's got their ass not doing so well either with their fast cav so had to retreat them them as they were lured in to the rest of my hidden army to do some damage to their cav and stuff keeping bombarding them and then retreating before I lost all my ary to the framers, 2ed battle with same army still a decisive loss predicted same deal all but lord hidden get some spells off well they can and retreating before they die cuz they would be 1 shot as spam as cav catch up the baiting then taking out cav with assassin, well baiting with my nearly dead cav all well bombarding them managing to take out all but their lords and heros before using the remainder of my army to kill their 4 lords and heros, using my melee units to position them for my archers who spent every arrow, our cav running down the heros as they broak their last unit solo being the biggest pain though blobing all my units on to him eventually killed him as he tore though units like butter, though we won the 2ed battle with minimal unit losses but alot of troop losses vs their total wipe of all but 6 imp outriders. Most, like 90% of their losses were army abilities used on clumped forces over both battles, with out the abilities would have been decisive losses both times.
