How the Far Right Took Over Croatian Wikipedia, & How They Were Stopped

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In 2013 the media noticed something was happening on Croatian Wikipedia, something that had been happening for a while. It took over a decade for the right-wing capture of Croatian Wikipedia to be stopped by the efforts of many Wikipedians over the course of a decade.
The bibliography is ordered in order of appearance (hopefully correct!) as opposed to by alphabetical order, that's because this video relies pretty much exclusively on articles and specific Wiki pages which makes it kinda hard to navigate if it's just ordered by usernames in my opinion, might not be the best way to do it but it's how I chose to do it.
-- Bibliography:
- MJ Lemonsnout, "How I rescued Croatian Wikipedia from the Far-Right (old)", RU-vid, Dec. 11th, 2021., • How I rescued Croatian... [Accessed 09.07.2023]
- WMF, "The Case of Croatian Wikipedia: Encyclopaedia of Knowledge or Encylopaedia for the Nation?" WMF, June 14th, 2021.
- T. Sampson, "How pro-fascist ideologues are rewriting Croatia's history", Daily Dot, Oct. 1st, 2013.
- C. Cimpanu, "Wikimedia bans admin of Wikipedia Croatia for pushing radical right agendas", The Record, Jun. 21st, 2021.
- R. Griffin, "Nature of Fascism", 1991
- MJ Lemonsnout, et. al. "Request for comment/Global ban for Kubura", meta.wikimedia.org, Nov. 15th 2020.
- Broco, "Wikipedia: Administrators/Suggestions for administrators/kubura", Hr.Wikipedia.org, Sep. 17th 2009.
- WizardOfOz, "Croatian Wikipedia-misuse of admin tools by User:Kubura", meta.wikimedia.org, Mar. 7th 2010.
- Dalibor Bosits, "Global rollback for Dalibor Bosits", meta.wikimedia.org, Feb. 10th 2010.
- Tritomex, CommonsDelinker, "Ustaše: the difference between the versions", Hr.Wikipedia.org, Nov. 12th 2012.
- Frano Millić, et. al. "Administrators/Revocation proposals/SpeedyGonsales, Kubura and Zeljiko", Hr.Wikipedia.org, Oct. 26th 2013.
- Fraxinus, "Bureaucrats/Suggestions for bureaucrats/Kubura", Hr.Wikipedia.org, Aug. 18th 2017.
- Riley, "Stewards/Elections2020/Votes/~riley", meta.wikimedia.org, Jan. 23rd 2020.
- Lasta, "User:Lasta/CU38", meta.wikimedia.org, Oct. 30th 2020.
- Music:
Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic Soundtrack
#wikipedia #croatia #history
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Опубликовано:

20 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 2,4 тыс.

@griffingerrein8831 Год назад

"Croatian fascist Wikipedia coup" is a string of words I never thought I would hear, but here we are.

@sentaveliki425 10 месяцев назад

Oh nyooo did you drink your soy latte today?

@rizzllerr 7 месяцев назад

@@sentaveliki425huh?

@Dendarang 5 месяцев назад

New Seattle band name,

@CursedSFMS 4 месяца назад

@@sentaveliki425what are you yapping about

@sentaveliki425 4 месяца назад

@@CursedSFMS ur mother

@redacted9280 Год назад

Wikipedia lore is insane, from that one kid who ran scots Wikipedia by simply writing in a poor attempt mimicking a Scottish accent to a literal fascist takeover. Ppl need to make more videos on things like this.

@marcello7781 Год назад

Suddenly I remembered that hoax article on the fictional Abu-Ali Urbuti, an article that lasted from 2006 to 2021.

@DiamondKingStudios Год назад

Wasn’t there that thing in the Polish Wikipedia where they made up some guy because road name. I get reminded of Comrade Ogilvy in _1984_

@TheGrinningViking Год назад

There's paid editors working 8 hours a day and marking WikiLeaks as an unreliable source ever since it revealed that we knew there were no WMD in Iraq. It's still captured, it's just by the American feds.

@Funkeyman Год назад

My personal favourite is there's 1 guy who's edited over 5 millions articles correcting the phrase 'comprised of' to 'consists of'

@Nomadith Год назад

@@Funkeyman the unsung hero Also you're all forgetting the American admin who made or linked over 400+ articles to breasts in one form or another.

@coconutflour9868 9 месяцев назад

Having grown up in Croatia during this time, I guess this is part of why my teachers always told me not to cite Wikipedia

@craftah 7 месяцев назад

you could use serbo croatian wikipedia maybe

@Mathematica_EtHistoria 5 месяцев назад

No, noone will do that + it's just going to be biased from two sides so you're basically reading an argument.@@craftah

@craftah 5 месяцев назад

@@Mathematica_EtHistoria im not gon say its perfect but its better than the nationalistic ones

@theastrogamer710 4 месяца назад

@@craftahhonestly as a Croat I prefer the Serbo Croatian wiki over the Croatian one, it just seems a lot better moderated and a lot less nationalistically slanted

@emuotorimiddlefinger 4 месяца назад

@@theastrogamer710the croatian wiki doesnt have half of the stuff on serbo-croatian wiki

@marcello7781 Год назад

When I see something about the far right I always prepare myself for something terrible, but when I read "far right" plus "country in the Balkans" I know I'm going to get into some real nightmare fuel.

@MoraleToad Год назад

yeah propaganda works like that.. dutch belgium england france spain USA and so on are FAR WORSE than anything about balkans…

@toast2300 Год назад

The Balkans effect™

@aregularperson7573 Год назад

The My dad is war criminal effect

@martinpospisil3747 Год назад

The biggest evil always came from the left. Remember Soviet Union, Russian Revolutio, Cultural Revolution in China, Khmer Rouge etc. Leftiest have the highest body count of any ideology ever. Far right only has Nazis which was a reaction to Bolshevik Communism. So again If it wasnt for the left no Hitler.

@BBWahoo Год назад

Balkan Jews: I'm in danger! 🙂

@fluffskunk Год назад

Wikipedia's governance seems to select for people who have agendas and no life outside of editing. A separation between the editors and the governors really would make more sense, where governance should really come from those with real-world credentials rather than an obsessive interest in Wikipedia's often byzantine methodology.

@PlatinumAltaria Год назад

The kind of person who seeks power is the same kind of person that shouldn't have it. There's not really a fix for that.

@Jane-oz7pp Год назад

Wikipedia is honestly such dreck, overall. I've tried to edit articles with accurate information and replace their misunderstood or intentionally misused sources, providing far more, far stronger sources for my edits, and been rejected every single time. It almost always ends up being something that supports far right positions, too.

@GoldenRedder Год назад

Jane-oz7pp I doubt that given that Wikipedia has a strong leftward bias.

@Karamazov9 Год назад

@@GoldenRedderno, Wikipedia is filled with far right propaganda

@zuz-ve4ro Год назад

@@GoldenRedder thats what millionaires paid by billionaires are telling you. there is 83% male vast majority western bias on wikipedia

@thefrogger6507 Год назад

Ok but a much nicer fact about the Croatian Wikipedia is that the Croatian article for Eugene Krabs (yes, from Spongebob) is longer than the Croatian article for Jesus Christ

@dinkydine8889 Год назад

Thats not nice

@jeffersonclippership2588 10 месяцев назад

@@dinkydine8889 it's nice and fair, one has had a more positive impact on people's lives than the other

@dinkydine8889 10 месяцев назад

@@jeffersonclippership2588 Christ has had more of a positive impact than a stupid spongebob character.

@jeffersonclippership2588 10 месяцев назад

@@dinkydine8889 Mr krabs has never raped a child

@belstar1128 8 месяцев назад

everyone knows about Jesus

@napalmsticks6494 Год назад

As a Croat i almost never read the Croatian Wikipedia because i knew English. The Croatian Wikipedia simply doesn't have enough information, and the information is always biased, often times i just read the English version even for Balkan events because it was more objective.

@Jane-oz7pp Год назад

Eh, I would be very hesitant to call it less biased. It's just a different bias. English Wiki is mostly run by MAGAists these days.

@stormburn1 Год назад

@@Jane-oz7ppCan you give an example of that bias? I've found English Wikipedia to be startlingly good as of the last few years, and certainly not MAGA-biased. The only times I've seen the use of Wikipedia attacked has been by fascists and Stalin apologists, and even then they never have an argument beyond posturing "academic" smugness.

@catrielmarignaclionti4518 Год назад

@@Jane-oz7pp wait what maga ?

@TiananmenPrism Год назад

@@stormburn1 an example of wikipedia bias (unless you're asking specifically for MAGA bias, that I don't know) is their list of "reliable" sources, which contains sources like Radio Free Asia (CIA propaganda outlet) listed as reliable. Reliable sources list has clearly liberal bias and people who maintain it are guided by liberal ideology.

@jamesrowlands8971 Год назад

@@Jane-oz7pp the top echelon are primarily US.gov

@MJL_ Год назад

Oh my gosh, I was wondering why I had a sudden uptick in subscribers. Then someone in my server sent me a link to this video. Thank you so much for crediting me! You really did your research on this whole thing incredibly well, so color me impressed. I tried to make a video about this whole thing myself, and it is not even nearly as comprehensive. Seriously, excellent work!!

@hughquigley5337 Год назад

Thank YOU for the efforts you made to kick Kubura and their cronies out of power in Croatian Wikipedia! :)

@jayops1067 Год назад

Was not prepared to see a homestuck profile picture involved in this story. Either way, you did absolutely amazing work making the internet a better place!

@earlturner6023 Год назад

pronoun person ruining a good thing as usual

@Bulbs_Productions Год назад

@@earlturner6023 alright bro

@usualunusualkid7149 8 месяцев назад

@@earlturner6023 ok "earl turner"

@laksio227 Год назад

"Why the Ustaše was pretty awesome, actually" - next Pax Tube video

@laksio227 Год назад

@@rrabbits4164 "Why the Spanish civil war was awesome, actu- Oh wait I forgot he actually fucking did that basically lmaoo

@user-dg2cv1wt4i Год назад

Because Ustaše were freedom fighters

@blackpathos5791 Год назад

@@user-dg2cv1wt4iso true! Their is no great act of freedom than slaughtering Serbian children so much that even the Nazis think you are insane

@matejharmunt8725 Год назад

@@user-dg2cv1wt4i grow up I know you werent listening in school when it was about ustaše literaly putting anyone in a concentration camp

@user-dg2cv1wt4i Год назад

@@matejharmunt8725 you grow up stop lisening to propaganda

@canadianjake917 Год назад

Right wing balkan people might be the worlds most ridiculously fervent and dedicated haters it's almost deserving of respect

@nikhtzatzi Год назад

As a balkan resident, Discussing it with a western european, who claimed That "its ok. far right is the flavour of the month, Even in other countries outside balkans" I responded : You dont get it. Our far right isat the far right of your far right.

@toast2300 Год назад

@@nikhtzatziur far right makes their far right look like moderate leftists

@josiptito9412 Год назад

@@toast2300 reminds me of the american political system

@nikhtzatzi Год назад

@@josiptito9412 No mate our far right is a sad amalgam of putin and hitler. Desantis is a leftist comperatively... :(

@damirk3 Год назад

And they are all sponsored or created by western democratic countries

@the-notorius Год назад

As a Croat i am very excited for the video sadly Wikipedia isn't the only problem in Croatia even TV media and news spew this fascist propaganda about the Ustaše and Jasenovac.

@klaud_boi2650 Год назад

Jesus, is it really that bad.

@katarinam7781 Год назад

@@klaud_boi2650I live in rural Croatia and about one in three road signs will have a massive ustaša u sigil spray painted on it. And every single bus stop

@luketzar1324 Год назад

@@klaud_boi2650 It's not, i dont know what this guy is smoking, but as a croat from croatia i can confirm it is not that bad. Only the extreme minority (like less than 1%) of the population actually supports the fascists

@the-notorius Год назад

@@luketzar1324 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DbkuJfvlY3s.html Maybe they won't call them self fash but they held the same beliefs the title reads Jasenovac how they faked the number of dead. And Bujica is a show that is a part of a big TV network Z1

@mr.mystery9338 Год назад

@@luketzar1324Bro like every time i go to croatia every man has a trapezoidal moustache. What are you on about?

@laksio227 Год назад

If you think this is bad, just you wait before seeing the Azerbaijani version on Wikipedia. Read anything about Armenia, and trust me, it's just going to be about denying the fact that Armenia has ever existed historically, justifying the Armenian genocide (and or denying it), and claiming that it was actually the Armenians who committed genocide against Turks & Azeris. Literally everything even remotely about Armenia or Armenians reads like schizophrenic fascist state propaganda. Also, of course the blatant falsifications of Persian history, in order to twist the narrative to somehow proving that most of Iran has been Azeri and what not. Azerbaijani Wikipedia is an insight into what a North Korean Wikipedia page would look like.

@Pushing_Pixels Год назад

Wow! Armenians have been around a lot longer than Azeris as a cultural group. Like thousands of years. But I guess if you can convince yourself that the ancient Persians were really Azeri you can believe anything about history.

@iamverybored329 Год назад

Both Turks and Armenians did genocide

@abandonthis Год назад

lol

@beandlunt6059 Год назад

@@iamverybored329when exactly did armenians commit genocide

@seanhartnett79 Год назад

Honestly this is just tragically funny.

@der_metzgermeister Год назад

Some smaller Wikipedia versions are wild. Like look at this shit off the Azerbaijani language page on the Armenian genocide: "However, the Armenians have not provided substantial evidence so far. On the contrary, there were massacres by Armenians against Turks and Kurds in eastern Anatolia. During the First World War, Armenians who were Ottoman citizens shot their state, that is, the Ottoman Empire, from behind." Yea I'm not sure these guys are very neutral or objective lmao

@Uka947 Год назад

The bias of english language Balkan Wikipedia pages also always fluctuates based on which nationality is most active in editing that specific article. A lot of the time these articles are a cesspool of nationalists trying to manipulate sources in order to come out on top of the “enemy editors”. This makes it quite difficult to know whether what you’re reading is accurate or not

@peterdenov4898 Год назад

Yup, it gets even funnier when another nation started editting foreign Wikipedia articles to push political narrative like with Turkey editing Bulgarian pages regarding ancestry/sensitive topics/turco-bulgarian stuff as Bulgarian Wikipedia is quite detailed and objective in it's BG from, but p!$$ empty and unmoderated in EN with last edits from 12y or so.

@alexmilchev5395 Год назад

Meanwhile English language wiki about Bulgarian is still promoting the idea that Bulgarians are Turkic in nature, which was created by Hitler and completely debunked.

@belstar1128 8 месяцев назад

maybe people should read it in languages that re not from the Balkan and few people in the Balkan speak them like Japanese or thai .

@craftah 7 месяцев назад

@@belstar1128 not a good idea because japanese or thai will just copy english and translate it. and japanese don't want to even admit to the bad things they did in the past so why would you educate from them lol

@elowin1691 4 месяца назад

@@belstar1128 problem few people outside the balkans speak these languages either

@rowboat10 Год назад

People are always so cautious about Wikipedia (because "anyone" can edit it) but say nothing about the sources (that Wikipedia takes information from in the first place)

@Solo-Necro Месяц назад

You gotta have permissions to edit it fam, tried but failed few days ago as of a year or 2 ago I managed to edit few posts but some neckbeard mods kept reverting things... Best part is it was false, tried to edit it but that idiot discord mod freelancer reverted it. Fact that I was trying to change was about my family name fighting turks and I know that for a fact, have all written documents since 1600s in my damn house lol

@thastayapongsak4422 Месяц назад

@@Solo-Necro If you were just changing it with no linked sources then it's only natural that it got reverted

@karlojoki6314 27 дней назад

There is 0 sources about Jasenovac and many other nowdays wiki pages that isn't from communist fake script. Those topics were never covered by neutral reporters or hitorians. We have communist China and Korea today and we can see how they cover up everthing and write their fake script about anything.

@TigOriMish Год назад

My friend and I are Russians, and my friend once edited articles well about the famine of the 30s and Stalinist repressions, he also pointed out many references to documents from the archives and to the book of contemporaries of those days, which were quite pro-Soviet. My friend's edits from Wikipedia were removed, and he himself was banned, and all the links that he put were replaced with the works of Solzhenitsyn .....

@idcallname8410 Год назад

That's quite odd, tbh, Russian Wikipedia had relatively high standards and was mostly neutral (and it was rather not pro-state) last time I checked. Maybe some mods went on a power trip?

@TigOriMish Год назад

@@idcallname8410The Russian Wikipedia is very politicized. Russian liberals do not like the communists much, and I think that the communists support the state, although this is not so.

@Pushing_Pixels Год назад

The English language article on the Holodomor is a pretty bad example of popular narrative trumping academic rigor. It seems to be pretty carefully guarded by someone/s who don't want that narrative to change, regardless of what the academics find.

@shatzinorris1417 Год назад

The article is famous for quoting Conquest's earlier works and avoiding Conquest's later works where he goes back on his position. English language page has been held by a staunch ukrainian nationalist who edits the page as to be as biased as possible.

@idcallname8410 Год назад

@@TigOriMish oh, I see. So it's centre-left biased?

@Troyless Год назад

Can I just say that I found your what if the Korea war never happened video to be the best alt-history video i've ever seen on youtube? You make good shit bro

@FreddaYT Год назад

Thank you!

@xenotiic8356 Год назад

i agree 100%

@DogeickBateman Год назад

Taiwan probably would be part of the PRC, Washington reoriented from leaving the island to fortifying it post-Korea, China meanwhile was too occupied in Korea. Interesting twist of events.

@maks3964 Год назад

@@FreddaYT I am from Croatia as well. Check out my youtube history channel.

@RunawayTrain2502 Год назад

@@FreddaYT Could you do an inverse version.. What if the ROK was banished to Jeju. So like Korean Taiwan.

@Nomadith Год назад

This is almost, almost, as insane as something made by Whatifalthist. Bless you brother your content slaps and is insightful

@Norrsky Год назад

It's hard to get as insane as whatifalthist. Dude last the plot half way through his crack pipe

@bill5627 Год назад

More like WhatIfIncel.

@Nomadith Год назад

@@bill5627 amen

@voicelessglottalfricative6567 Год назад

Whatifaltright

@snjezanagalic2361 Год назад

Bro always does something about neo ottomanism and the world is ending for the last 50 years by his opinion

@Stoneworks 4 месяца назад

I know this is objectively bad but this story is so fucking funny to me

@herrforesight-Satanisking 4 месяца назад

Eat dirt

@ajaytoefan1 4 месяца назад

@@herrforesight-SataniskingEat Dirt

@mr.gigagod9736 Месяц назад

Hey stoneworks. I am genuinely suprised you watched this video and I found you here. I knew stonweorks doesn’t like fascism, but damn your so based. Also btw, how do I get into a discord to join a nation

@noahzuniga Год назад

neever imagined a wikipedia power struggle would be as gripping and high-stakes as this, great vid

@fidemporas Год назад

Least nationalistic Croats.

@JmKrokY Год назад

Lmao true

@mrzantrollovic5869 Год назад

other people in balkan are far more nationalisitc

@fidemporas Год назад

@@mrzantrollovic5869 Not a good time to say this, given what happened in Greece two days ago when 150+ Croats drove there

@mrzantrollovic5869 Год назад

@@fidemporas what did greek fans in istanbul some years ago? why do serbs attacked swiss players just because they have albanian roots? and why serbian fans are shouting to albanian everytime?

@mostarac94 3 месяца назад

@@mrzantrollovic5869never

@spencer101 Год назад

I swear you make the best thumbnails

@FreddaYT Год назад

Thank you, I wasn't too happy with this one but still, thanks!

@spencer101 Год назад

@@FreddaYT I mean nothing will beat the whatifalthist thumbnail

@AnimarchyHistory Год назад

The Croatian club, representing the Croatian Ex-Patriate community in my city (Australia) has a bust of Pavelic in the entrance hall along with his portrait in a gold frame behind the bar. Do with that information what you will. 😅

@enchyxxx Год назад

Yeah, Australian Croats are a... special kind (but so are the other ex-Yugo diasporas). Most of us here in the actual country of Croatia stay away from them.

@FreddaYT Год назад

Sheesh

@vault13dweller15 Год назад

It is similar with Slovenian diaspora in Argentina. I remember when there was a footage from some national holiday celebration from Argentina and they had Bela garda flag (the Slovenian Nazi collaborators during WW2. It would be translated to something like White Guard in English.). Apparently many from Bela Garda emigrated to Argentina.

@DD-qw4fz Год назад

Croat immigrants are hardcore anti communists to the point anyone against commies and Serbs is a good guy, its similar to Bandera in Ukraine. Its essentially a huge middle finger Nations stuck between greater powers during ww2 that were never given a choice of independence/self determination and whose culture and national identity were threatened by Serbification/Russification, so they joined the axis side.

@ivanmihaelmatkovic2464 Год назад

Nothing strange for diasporas, they are generally attracted to crap stuff like that.

@BLANK-kq8wv Год назад

insane hitler particles rn

@Duvumvirat Год назад

Sadly, national bias is literally the second name of "Independent" wikipedia. Just google the map of all russian wiki's editors by their country, and you would easily get why lots of people despise this information "source"

@Pushing_Pixels Год назад

Wow! It took me a while to find the data, but that's insane. I'm sure they know this is happening too.

@superhappygamer1162 7 месяцев назад

That is actually because the company that owns the site hides the number of editors from those countries.

@dinkopausic6357 4 месяца назад

Can't find anything, what are you talking about?

@ghostel9253 Год назад

As an actual Wikipedia editor, the excerpt at around 5:30 made my skin crawl, both from the fascism and the improperness of the actual text

@PlatinumAltaria Год назад

You can find all sorts of interesting misinformation on Wikipedia; my favourite is the article called "Flying ointment", which is an entirely fictitious "theory" about the "truth" of medieval witchcraft which involves psychedelics and dildos. Very funny and worth the read, and also deeply concerning that something someone made up is now permanently embedded in an online learning resource.

@kylegonewild Год назад

People made up Bigfoot, Ghosts, and religions. All of those have wikipedia articles too.

@Rockzilla1122 Год назад

@@kylegonewildedgy today aren't we

@highqualitygrunt8195 Год назад

@@Rockzilla1122he's right though

@GumSkyloard Год назад

@@Rockzilla1122 You're only saying that because he mentioned religion.

@iamverybored329 Год назад

@@kylegonewild Nothing + nothing = Earth Atheist logic

@enchyxxx Год назад

As someone from Croatia, thank you for this video. I still don't use the Croatian wiki, unless I have to, because I simply can't trust most of the stuff written there. Only English, Spanish and Serbo-Croatian.

@γιουργια Год назад

If you have access to JSTOR... Why would someone use Wikipedia instead of JSTOR

@enchyxxx Год назад

@@γιουργια depends on the topic. If I just want to know the basics about something, I read the wiki article (and I check the sources). If I want to go more into detail, I usually use Scihub or Libgen (for books), as I don't have access to JSToR.

@tvsonicserbia5140 Год назад

As someone from Serbia I also much prefer the Serbo-Croatian wiki articles to Serbian. Weird that it exists but pretty cool. And interesting that it's sometimes written more with croatian trappings, sometimes basically a latin version of the serbian page. For very rare articles there's also a Bosnian page, which I found pretty strange, without any disrespect to anyone's ethnicity, right to self determination etc., as it's even less different from the Croatian standard of the language than the Serbian standard. Usually one food the declaration is split into HR/BIH and SRB/MNE, but honestly I wouldn't say the Montenegrin standard is any more similar to Serbian either, should there be Montenegrin pages then? It's all a little silly considering there's no pages for say Kansai dialect Japanese which is much more different to Kanto dialect than any of these standard varieties of Serbo-Croatian are to eachother and is spoken by many more people.

@ZlatnoPeroTV Год назад

The English one is also fascist

@belmordok3661 Год назад

Never heard of serbo-croatian. You're delusional for posting that kind of stuff.

@petarspajic7648 Год назад

Croat here. I didn't even know of this happening, I usually use English Wikipedia because the Croatian one is very obscure and not very developed. Maybe that's why I never knew of it

@josemaria8177 Год назад

In the sea of reactionary alt hist channels, you are a shining light. Thank you

@npcreprogrammer 2 месяца назад

cope

@thundercheckov9782 Год назад

I think it's important for established academic communities to be active on wikipedia. I remember in UNI how often our professors warned us about faulty wikipedia articles yet none of them ever claimed to have tried to solve the issue. Of course they lack time to invest themselves in such projects, but it would ba a great addition if expert of their fields could contribute, even just as reviewers if not active contributors. Of course even academia can be a place of manipulation and propaganda, but generaly speaking It's a bastion of scientific method and pluralism, and an ennemy of oppresive regimes if kept somewhat independant. That's why universities are especially despised by the reactionnary right wing, learned people debunking their biased narrative with scientific method feels like castration to them. They especially hate the idea that higher education should be accessible to all as that would allow new perspectives to challenge the worldview they try to impose.

@Pushing_Pixels Год назад

There are some academics who edit Wikipedia. Generally, they are zealous guardians of one or two articles only and will immediately undo anyone else's edits. Unfortunately, the best academics don't have time for such things, so it's left to the mediocre.

@hqwefg Год назад

While I cannot read or speak Serbo-Croatian and as such do not use Croatian Wikipedia, I have noticed an odd amount of pro-fascist stuff on the English Wikipedia pages for Yugoslavia, SFR Yugoslavia, and the history of the Yugoslav Partisans. Particularly there seems to be a lot of misinformation and focus on Barbara pit and small scale combat near the end of the war, with attempts to paint it as vengeful Partisans wiping out civilian populations and covering up the fact it was retreating collaborators fighting past the armistice date from Nazi Germany. In general it seems like there's a lot of tears being shed for a bunch of fascists being killed even in the English pages on Croatia.

@DiamondKingStudios Год назад

If the Internet existed in 1870, the English Wikipedia article for the American Civil War (1861-1865) would probably be a battleground of keyboards between former Union and Confederate veterans over the narrative of the events. On some level it probably is in our timeline anyway but with the third-great-grandchildren of said veterans.

@unityofvitality-5875 Год назад

"attempts to paint it as"... you are vermin

@sonicwave779 Год назад

@@DiamondKingStudios The lost cause myth is still widely believed today so it's not out of the question.

@DiamondKingStudios Год назад

@@sonicwave779 If Wikipedia existed in 1870 the claims would probably be even more exaggerated and overtly propagandistic, and Reconstruction on Amy given day might look like the plot synopsis of _The Birth of a Nation_ without all the elements pertaining to specific characters.

@ctd325 Год назад

Around one tenth of Barbara Pit's victims were women. This is confirmed by the excavation that was done there, as a large pile of remains of female hair had been found at the site. This 100% confirms that the victims of the Bleiburg massacres were not collaborators exclusively, but that many have in fact been civilians. It is actually the communist apologists who try to cover up the fact that many victims of those purges were civilian.

@jtojagicc Год назад

CROATIA MENTIONED An edit for the serious portion of the comment: This incident is an echo of the reactionary movement in Croatia (and pretty much all ex-Yugoslav countries) that aims to distance the new nation state from the neighbors and Yugoslavia itself. Unfortunately in doing so they're also distancing themselves from anti-fascist ideology and slipping right back into far-right: revisionism, revanchism, xenophobia, racism etc. are rampant here. Worse still is that for many it's performative racism and na*ism as the people themselves don't seem to be very interested in all those things (a result of low standard of living, with day to day survival being primary concern, thank you privatization and transition) since it's rather normalized (by omission and failure to adequately curtail it rather than outright promotion). The end result is like the Wiki: a minority of actual right wingers exploiting the indifference and inability of the majority to stop further radicalization which is a rather infuriating experience for few leftists still living here.

@jovicamateric7756 Год назад

Ista priča ovde u srpskoj brate.

@justbecauseicould6958 Год назад

@@jovicamateric7756sutra će bit bolje brate, nešta mora bit. 🇭🇷

@jtojagicc Год назад

@@jovicamateric7756 znam brt, svi smo u istim govnima i dalje

@mr.cauliflower3536 Год назад

Does Croatian not have a counterpart to the Polish "Uznali nas"?

@ZugTheDragon Год назад

Glad someone is pointing out the full picture I am under the impression that most people don't see how or why this happened

@Eddn102 Год назад

As a Bosniak, thank you for this. Honestly I think "the Yugoslagian solution" is correct for wikipedia, but I understand the issues. If it ever happens I look forward to the ijekavian / ekavian discussion.

@Maus_Indahaus Год назад

I agree about the Yugoslavian solution, but it will never happen. Take history textbooks written by Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats, and you will find 3 different histories when talking about our own region. Add to that what our parents learned in history during the communist rule, and that's 4 different versions of the same events

@ivanpetkovic2130 Год назад

It woudn’t work, no one is willing to give in to find common ground.

@idcallname8410 Год назад

@@Maus_Indahaus it would be quite fun to see the editing warfares and 99% of political articles locked

@aprofondir Год назад

The weird thing is Montenegro, like if we're gonna have separate Wikipedias why don't they have one?

@ivanpetkovic2130 Год назад

@@aprofondir 200,000 people, that is the population of Montenegro. About half identify as Serbs. You're welcome

@arsray7285 Год назад

English language Wikipedia peak is the: Russian Marriage article and the history of Karelia article.

@wearebecomedeathstar2658 3 месяца назад

This is an ongoing issue on Wikipedia in most languages. Even in english the artical regarding "Semetic Peoples" keeps getting edited to imply non jewish semites should be stripped of their catagoriation as "semetic" because thats how its used in the modern day... despite that being an artificial distinction to the definition added in the 1980's specifically to remove islamic semites from protected status.

@ThomasZadro Год назад

The difference between articles posted in different languages sometimes is really hard to understand - in particular when referring to historic events. When gathering information about Simón Bolívar for a video, I sometimes run into significant differences between the English and Spanish version. Sometimes events that made Bolívar look bad were completely ignored or inversed on the Spanish sites. Well, I already knew that Wikipedia is no reliable source, but this experience was really a shock (obviously, I looked up some books in order to cross-reference).

@fueyo2229 3 месяца назад

yeah I tried to contribute to the Spanish Wikipedia and it has quite a right wing bias in many topics, mainly the colonization of the Americas and their independence, and also against local and minority languages in Spanish speaking countries

@JamesJohn-tg2jg Год назад

Not just wikipedia, News, RU-vid, Everything is turning to a far right rabbit hole which is Radicalizing a lot of young people sadly.

@Frostchris4121 Год назад

That's what happens when americans have a global hegemonic control over internet and media.

@Jane-oz7pp Год назад

@@Frostchris4121 With the only real global competitors being India (also pretty fascist atm) Japan (haha when did Japanism make such a comeback?) South Korea (I mean, it's just Japan but _more_ Americanized) England (nuff said) and I guess the combined media presence of Canada, NZ and Australia (basically just USA sock puppets anyway)

@Vryheid Год назад

Calm down

@Joebob1119 Год назад

@@stereomachine We are winning, cope lol

@yumanorfolk3103 Год назад

@@Joebob1119 wait, i thought it was them alphabet folks that are winning with their big ownership in media and censorship and other crap.

@sal6695 8 месяцев назад

Don't say Jasenovac killed "Jews and other nationalities". They killed PRIMARILY Serbs there, as well as significant amounts of Jews and Roma. Serbs were the primary target, and framing it the way you did ignores that fact by not even naming Serbs and just lumping them into the other smaller nationalities secondarily targeted. The holocaust in Croatia targeted Serbs by VAST majority. I have no issue with people saying "Serbs as well as Jews, Roma and others", but not even listing Serbs by name is very gross to me. Now I am 99% sure Fredda didn't say it like that intentionally, he's generally a very good creator and I don't think he'd do something like that intentionally, but I think its a glaring flaw in an otherwise great video. The Holocaust in Croatia is often taught to have targeted only Jews to Croats to wipe away the very real fact that the Ustashe targeted mainly Serbs and to instead only show it as a byproduct of larger Nazi German behavior rather than a homegrown aspect of the genocide. It may feel like I'm nitpicking or even being distasteful but as a Serb I don't like my people not even being named directly as a victim group in the genocide primarily of my people.

@jonomobono3223 8 месяцев назад

Serbs did a genocide on millions of bosniaks and albanians during the 1990s...and they are proud of it...

@VVayVVard 4 месяца назад

@@jonomobono3223 That doesn't change the fact that they were subjected to one in this context. A v1ctim group in one context can be an 0ppressor group in another. (Also apparently those two words are blacklisted here. Strange.)

@izzymosley1970 Год назад

This was interesting I like seeing how conflict happens on the internet because they are conflicts without violence but are still sometimes very important kind of similar to politics.

@DiamondKingStudios Год назад

You could win a war, but be prepared to fight over its memory. We Americans learned this the hard way, and now a bunch of misinformation exists about our civil war spread over the decades by former plantation owners wanting to polish their reputation and their side of the war.

@franjkav Год назад

Without *physical* violence.

@genericyoutubecommenter589 7 месяцев назад

@@franjkav yeah, as the video mentions, during the takeover pretty much every legitimate editor that dissented got banned, which i guess would be kind of the wikipedia equivalent of violence? idk that made more sense in my head

@BreakingRaven Год назад

I am Croatian myself and I speak English and Croatian, my english isnt the best but i try my best to speak english edit: thanks for making this video, not only for public outside of my small country but rest of the world to understand what we went trough, even tho i wasn't aware of this drama at the time.

@seanhartnett79 Год назад

Your English is actually pretty good. Aside from some run ons and lacking periods it is pretty good.

@genericyoutubecommenter589 7 месяцев назад

honestly, 7/10 english, you talk like most english speakers on the internet. wouldn't have been able to tell if you didn't mention it

@alexandreparot5846 5 месяцев назад

I always find it insane to see nazis and fans of the Ustaše and other monsters spend so mich time and effort to distort and lie about attrocities, while being proud of these attrocities. I genuinely don't understand

@djjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 2 месяца назад

Because they know their positions sound absolutely horrendous to any sane person, so they hide their actual beliefs until they feel it's safe to voice them. It happened in nazi germany, and it's happening all over the west now again, more people are starting to feel awfully confident about just openly being racist or genocidal against other minorities

@sirmrdoor Год назад

I love the RU-vid algorithm sometimes. Yes, of course I want to know how the far right took over Croatian Wikipedia at 01:08 on a Tuesday night. Incredible video, by the way. Keep up the good work!

@lesbiane-girl3995 Год назад

As a side note; your pronunciations were largely very good. The only thing you got wrong- which isn't intuitive to many other languages, is that the letter "C" is always pronounced like "ts", never like "k"

@maciejbala477 3 месяца назад

yeah this is the case for all Slavic languages, broadly speaking (also Hungarian and i believe Albanian, but not Romanian). I agree, the pronunciations were better than expected other than for this one mistake

@Sadend 7 месяцев назад

So Croatians were using Wikipedia basically.

@PeoplecallmeLucifer 5 месяцев назад

no. fascist did

@BoykisserOnCaffeine 4 месяца назад

Op is a serb

@ZugTheDragon Год назад

As a Croatian I actually never heard of this issue, but am glad it was dealt with. It's really a shame to see people who claim to love the country turn to defending that regime. I'd say that the frustration they feel is legitimate, the Yugoslav regime wasn't good at all either, but what they turn to is even worse. There's so many actually nice things they could turn to, and many do, but sadly some just go to Ustaše... I do hope that changes

@andrija3000 Год назад

It seems you have been reading too many of those wiki articles if you think that

@ZugTheDragon Год назад

@@andrija3000 it seems you never actually see people outside of your computer if you think that

@andrija3000 Год назад

@@ZugTheDragon you're a furry

@andrija3000 Год назад

@@weetbix4497 TL;DR Older people generally don't, younger generations do due to growing up in a bad economic time, time of war, and being fed propaganda. Older generations don't dislike it that much, or sometimes even outright do like it. Thing is after Tito's death, the leadership was mishandling a lot of things, there were economic crises in the 80s not just caused by the policy of the government but worldwide like the fuel shortage due to Arab countries protesting. And during the late 80s the Serbian politicians were pretty much openly being nationalistic, which made most of the other countries in the federation feel threatened. In the 90s there was just violence on both sides and it escalated into a full blown war which is just a complex topic, but basically after the secession the people in power didn't really wanna give legitimacy to the previous regime, so this lead to historical revisionism, hiding the good parts of the previous regime, focusing only on the bad parts etc. Horrible acts were commited by both sides, but ofc the governemnt focused on mostly the crimes commited by serbia/yugoslavia (complex issue on it's own). So all of this lead to pretty much everyone that was growing up past the mid 80s to just see Yugoslavia as this bad thing, that tried to annex them, that started a war against them (again more complex than this but this is the narrative they're fed), that is ultra-nationalists and hates Croats. And thing is most older people aren't generally online commenting, and people with moderate views aren't really gonna be noticed, and it's only these outright haters that do get noticed. Nowadays the younger generations born past the 2000s generally don't really give a shit since it's so far back, and doesn't effect them.

@ZugTheDragon Год назад

@@weetbix4497 From what I've heard, usually it's the other politicians being Serb leaning, the oppression of religions (this is to a different, but always some extent depending on who you ask), removal of some of the countries heritages (I do know that a lot of statues of people were removed, as well as some songs prohibited), this seems to have started relaxing in the years leading up to the breakup (for example, the statue of Jelačić was returned to it's square before the breakup) And a lot of it was from the war itself too

@4urawrkr2 4 месяца назад

The fact that a Homestuck reference could be brought into the fascist takeover of Croatian Wikipedia is fucking wild to me

@addemup8645 Год назад

How do Homestuck fans find a way to involve themselves in just about every single piece of internet drama imaginable? I almost fell out of my chair when I heard the name "MJ Lemonsnout". Also, I kind of want to learn about those six other users who got globally banned. They must have done something wild

@mojabaka Год назад

Yeah I‘m Croatian and I always search things in either English or German because our internet information websites are shit. Not just Wikipedia, but newspapers and forums are full of false information.

@Man-of-Steel674 Год назад

What croatians did to serbians was absolutely disgusting.

@katarinam7781 Год назад

can we not pretend this was a one-sided thing. the serbs literally shelled hospitals and killed and tortured POWs

@trisha6161 Год назад

@@katarinam7781 There is a roughly 45 year long gap between the Second World War and the collapse of Yugoslavia.

@katarinam7781 Год назад

@@trisha6161oh I thought you meant the ethnic cleansing that happened during the independence war. The video wasn't out at the time I saw your comment and I just assumed. I absolutely agree though Jasenovac was a national disgrace and the fact that the collaborationist NDH regime is ever seen as anything other than such is deeply saddening

@EE-gv9wt Год назад

While that's absolutely true, there is also a lot to be said about serbian monarchist chetnik movement during ww2 and their war crimes.

@Oujouj426 Год назад

@@EE-gv9wtYou can go even further back. There's a reason the Balkans are so notorious for international feuds.

@stefan-xaverscherrer7648 Месяц назад

Hi. Living Ironically in Europe, drew my attention to your video.

@Т1000-м1и 8 месяцев назад

The whole thing sounds like some kids roleplaying after hearing about politics for the first time, especially the wikimedia report

@georgigeorgiev891 5 месяцев назад

It's so funny to me that wikipedia has political institutions.

@rufflesoregano8970 Год назад

Croatians trying not to be fascists (impossible)

@JmKrokY Год назад

Racist fr

@yeo4725 4 месяца назад

As someone who is currently on Croatian Wikipedia, I'd like to add we are slowly moving onward: there's a project dediacted solely to making articles more neutral and we are making sure more and more articles are properly sourced and unbiased. There's a lot of work to be done, but we are progressing.

@MihaelMiskic 20 дней назад

Kako ide za sad?

@shinydewott Год назад

I feel like the damage done is definitely greater than the punishment given. The worst Kubura could be punished with is making a new account or having to use VPN to use Wikipedia. Even referring to his efforts with such powerful words as “regime” gives victory to these losers who need a story, no matter how falsified and untrue, to find their individual meaning in

@Oannaybz Год назад

Those fascists grifters are everywhere no matter where I look nowdays... It's almost as if this is a problem that our courent institutions can't fix and we need some sort of systemic change happening before it's too late... I wonder if somewhere something like this has ever happened, like some sort of colectivism? Who knows... Maybe some german, russian and chinese authors have talked about something like that.

@HeadsFullOfEyeballs Год назад

These fascists aren't grifters though. It's not like they make money from falsifying Wikipedia articles.

@eleaticeyes813 Год назад

sounds like Mazovian Socio-Economics to me.

@seanhartnett79 Год назад

Lol

@cletusawreetus-awrightus2799 8 месяцев назад

It's worked so well before

@hess8625 Год назад

This is a very accurate and informative video on something not well known outside of Croatia. There's one issue here at 9:20 though, it's a mistake to think of these far-right attitudes as a reaction against communist nostalgia instead of as the prevailing view among Croatians. In a survey conducted by Gallup World Poll in 2016, found that 55% of Croatians view the breakup of Yugoslavia positively, 23% negatively and the rest are neutral. This is because the prevailing view of Yugoslavia among Croatians is that of a Serb dominated state that threatened Croatian culture and sovereignty. This culminated in the political conflict known as the Croatian Spring in which Croatian reformers pushed for greater decentralization, autonomy and cultural recognition of Croatia (The Croatian Spring: Nationalism, Repression and Foreign Policy Under Tito) (The Three Yugoslavias: State-Building and Legitimation, 1918-2005) (State Collapse in South-Eastern Europe: New Perspectives on Yugoslavia's Disintegration). It is not the fear of the Communists but the fear of perceived threat of the Serbs, who are still demonized in Croatia today.

@FreddaYT Год назад

I don't disagree that that's a prevailing view, but I don't think the Ustashe-worshippers are the prevailing view in Croatia. But these specific guys were pretty focused on anti-communism. Perhaps the root of it was anti-Serb sentiment but it was expressed through anticommunism.

@embruu1 Год назад

@@FreddaYT to be completely honest with you anti-serb, anti-yugoslavian and ustaše worshippers go hand in hand, you will very rarely see someone that isn't all those three and rather judt one or two

@ctd325 Год назад

It is related to the question of Croatian statehood. Communist Yugoslavia is an antithesis to the idea of soverignty and statehood of Croatia, which to Croatian nationalists is non-negotiable. During the Cold War era, the Yugoslav government hired hitmen who would assasinate Croat political leaders who sought Croatian sovereignty, such as Bruno Bušić. They also poisoned Zagreb's cardinal for refusing to cut ties between the Croatian Catholic Church and the Vatican, which would have effectively turned it into a heretical Church that follows the party line. You said it yourself that the Yugoslav state threatened Croatian culture and your statement is right (even though i assume you wouldnt accept it to be true). Another example of it is the communists' removal of the statue dedicated to Josip Jelačić, who is considered by the Croats as a national hero. Not to mention the fabrication of the truth regarding the Bleiburg massacres. On the other side of the story were the Serbs. For one, Serbian academia was filled with hidden nationalists. They pretended to be communist party members but secretly held chauvinist beliefs. One of such was Dobrica Čosić, who believed that the Croats were a fake nation, claiming that they are Serbs of Catholic faith. He is one of the people who wrote the SANU memorandum, which is seen as one of the causes of the upcoming war. Second, the income that was acquired through tourism on the Adriatic coast was mostly allocated to Belgrade, so the Croats had the impression that the Serbs were robbing them. And lastly, the Yugoslav military and police were overwhelmingly dominated by Serbs. 70% of Zagreb's police was made up of Serbs, which explains why they stood by and did nothing as Serbian ultras started a chaotic fight during the Dinamo Crvena Zvezda match in 1990, but made sure to attempt to stop the Croatian ultras from taking any action. Of course, the biggest problem was the Yugoslav National Army, whose officers and generals were mostly Serbs. This is why Croatia was invaded when it tried to secede, but Slovenia and Macedonia were let go. The JNA did not attempt to preserve Yugoslavia at the outbreak of war, it attempted to create a Greater Serbia.

@ZugTheDragon Год назад

@@FreddaYT From my experience, they are a minority but incredibly loud. I don't think I've run into such people many times, but I admit that could be biased. Same with anti-Serb "sentiments", most people that hold them are just edgelords, while every person that was actually affected by the Yugoslav war either is neutral or emphasises loving them, we've actually had several teachers like that in our school that told us they don't want us falling into the Ustaše crap. But keep in mind this could be biased depending on the region of Croatia.

@thereisanamegoingon7267 11 месяцев назад

Don't take it the wrong way but you providing 3 sources for a relatively short comment outside of Wikipedia made me so hard

@alexpotts6520 5 месяцев назад

It's kinda amazing that events like this are the exception, rather than the rule. If you explained to a smart person who had somehow never heard of Wikipedia how the wesbite works, they might reasonably expect it to be a 4chan-esque dumpster fire. It's really amazing how good the site is 99% of the time.

@RoshanKumar-br6op Год назад

showing this to my AP World History teacher so that he has a better story to tell next year's class than "wikipedia is unreliable"

@F1RacingFans 11 месяцев назад

merging those 4 wikis would be a balkans clusterfuck and probably a bad idea, anyone who has any experience with the balkans dynamics should see this problem

@beaksters 3 месяца назад

When teachers say wiki is iky i’m starting to think that they only used the old Scots, Croatian, and maybe Turkey and Russia.

@brbix4005 Год назад

As a person from Croatia, neofascism is really strong here, often disguised as “nationalism”. It is all about denialism, changing historical facts to fit the narrative, denying any blame for Croats, hating Serbs etc. During the Operation Storm day, we have literal neofascists marching the Knin streets (HSP party members), as well as in Vukovar and others. There are instances of removing cyrillic plates, removing minority rights here etc., and even though our laws may seem more liberal than Poland or Hungary, they are often limited by things such as “self-determination” of doctors in terms of abortions etc. I live in a more liberal part of Croatia, but if you move from area of Istria, Primorje-Gorski kotar or Zagreb, plus northernmost areas like Zagorje or Međimurje, basically whole Croatia is majority conservative, still running on a war that happened 28-32 years ago, and Catholic propagandism. Nearly whole country is voting for Croatian Democratic Union, if you search for election results, most of the territory is blue. Far-right is very strong here. Probably everyone knows atleast one person with such beliefs even in liberal areas, and the only reason we don’t have the fate of Hungary is the HDZ propaganda. Our liberals are not even that liberal, for example Social Democratic Party’s Milanovic ran on nationalist propaganda. It is terrible.

@jonomobono3223 Год назад

You are not croat for Sure...there is no problem in fascism in croatia etc. Never seen that people gloryfing and celebrates genocides in croatia like ratko mladic or srebrenica...or deny the existance of the neighbouring countries like in kosovo...you will find things like this only in serbia...nowhere Else...

@quakeknight9680 Год назад

@@jonomobono3223 Tebi nebi ni naočale pomogle koliko si sljep

@jonomobono3223 Год назад

@@quakeknight9680 same cinjenice

@quakeknight9680 Год назад

@@jonomobono3223 Znači priznaješ da negiraš svoj ekstremizam?

@brbix4005 Год назад

Postoji nešto što se zove genocid u Ahmićima koji su Hrvati počinili nad Bošnjacima. O tome se jako malo priča. Također, HOS-ovci su otvoreni podržavatelji bivšeg NDH, koji se smatraju nacionalnim “herojima”. Tu postoji i nacionalno nepreispitavanje krivnje naših generala tijekom ratova 90-ih. Konzervatizam je jak ovdje, vrijednosti su ruralno-kršćanske i van većih gradova se ne prihvaćaju LGBT osobe, abortusi i takve stvari. Čak i u većim gradovima, zapravo.

@captain-chair Год назад

Well as a leftist... I am completely unsurprised by how much this imitated real life in a way... But I wonder from this... This is the power of the internet. Something which deserves an extreme amount of study and mastery. The mastery of the internet agitation is the mastery of agitation, education, and organisation. I think the far right has done a spectacular job utilising the internet for their means, and the left has barely even scratched the surface to counter them. It improves and is improving but it's a slow process. Anarchists have done a little better than us Marxists generally per say... But in all honesty... The reason the far right is much better at adapting to the material conditions than leftists... They are rooting for the home team of tradition... The place where power is more comfortable to rest its head. Meanwhile we are equivalent homeless looking into the future... But it is ironic to fight for a future when we haven't even analysed or mastered the present. The one who masters the past masters the future. And unfortunately... People such as me have been the ones on the receiving end of persecution for centuries, going back all the way to the enlightenment. We are so obsessed with the pattern, that we feel to comfortable in assuming the trend will not change its form and that we know all there is to know. It is this attitude which ultimately benefits our foes. To be an anti-fascist in the 21st century requires us to understand how this century works. Hence we shall... And we will overcome.

@earlturner6023 Год назад

bro you just posted cringe

@captain-chair Год назад

@@earlturner6023 Welcome to the internet. Is it your first day here? Cringe is relative to the perspective of the individual. And from my point of view, the opposite could be said. We will never agree, however I am inclined to entertain so here is a random meme for you because you probably want more information which confirms your world view rather than a challenge to it. Ain't I Right - Liberty Prime [AI Cover]: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LRsmzqT_cu0.html

@srikrishnak196 Год назад

Ok but you're still leftist. Hope you are moderate not woke. Respect🎉

@captain-chair Год назад

@@srikrishnak196 What is the definition of woke by the way?

@Rockadela_ Год назад

@@captain-chairyou posted cringe twice

@namelesslang5909 11 месяцев назад

The Amharic wikipedia also has this issue, I've learned. While some of it may be explainable by translation quirks, the articles read like drunken QAnon ramblings.

@404_nowheresnotfound3 10 месяцев назад

Oh hi Raven.

@MisterFoxton 9 месяцев назад

It would be bizarre to have separate pages for "American English", "Canadian English", "Australian English" and so on. It feels like that just curries an inevitable desire to distinguish those pages with a nationalist slant almost by design.

@theastrogamer710 4 месяца назад

The thing is that the nationalists in the territory of former Yugoslavia actively try to deny reality by pretending we all speak completely different languages when it is essentially the exact same language. It's a stance that's actively promoted by the establishment and government of every Serbo-Croatian speaking country so it's very hard to fight against that even when it's common sense

@antunm2122 Месяц назад

I'm from Croatia and my teachers in school always say that we shouldnt be getting our information for school projects from wikikpedia and now I know why.

@MATT-2033 Месяц назад

Im here because Living In Europe Ironically meationed this video.

@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor 4 месяца назад

Marshal Tito weeps at what has become of Yugoslavia.

@Mergor_X 4 месяца назад

And the people laugh

@marinmilevoj4829 Год назад

As a Croatian I unfortunetly no idea this was jappeninh, although it is higly surprising. I did however want to give my two cents to the discussion at the end of the video, mainly whtether the bosnian, serbian, croatian and the serbo-croatian wikipedia should unite. As things are, for a lot of topics I have access to 6 different wikipedia articles (english, simple english and the 4 serbo-croatian ones). This means I get to crossrefrence them and will often find more information on one of them when compared to the others. On the other hand, the 4 serbo-croatian wikipedias are all pretty small when compared to the english one and most articles are way shorter and look less professional. Uniting might make information much more available to us all and make our wikipedia much better and more resistant to take overs like this

@bomba1905 Год назад

When I see a new Fredda upload I instantly like, uncritical support for Fredda!

@Centristlol 7 месяцев назад

I’ve been onto some Portuguese language forums recently (I’m learning the language) and apparently Portuguese-language Wikipedia has a nasty problem with pro-colonial and pro-monarchy users defacing certain pages.

@vroomkaboom108 6 месяцев назад

lmao defacing how? If textbooks and media and pages in portuguese have been slandering the past for almost a hundred years does fixing this injustice count as defacing?

@antremiomoscocio Год назад

Weren’t you planning another video before this? Not complaining just curious, love your content

@FreddaYT Год назад

Uh which one was that? I have a couple I'm working on, this one just took less time to finish. I oscillate between them as I get stuck on something on one so I can keep working.

@antremiomoscocio Год назад

@@FreddaYTOh I see, none in particular in that case since you just mentioned it on twitter about like uploading a small one in the meantime or whatever, have a nice day

@FreddaYT Год назад

@@antremiomoscocio This is that small one!

@RedFrequence Год назад

As someone who is sometimes forced to use Croatian wiki becouse the Slovenian one isint developed enough, i was totaly unaware of the problem until now. Would not be surprised if the same were to happen here.

@enchyxxx Год назад

Just use the Serbo-Croatian one. The Croatian wiki, and Serbian and Bosnian (to a lesser extent) wikis have issues with extreme nationalism, although it has been getting better since Kubura was removed (but it will take a LOOOOT of time to clean up all the mess that was left behind).

@craftah 7 месяцев назад

@@enchyxxx yea i dont know why you'd use croatian or serbian and not serbo-croatian. it's logical it won't be that biased if there's croats serbs and bosnians together writing articles

@timmyturner327 Год назад

I take it for granted that Wikipedias can get biased on highly charged historical issues. I even use it as an opportunity to see multiple sides on the same issue. An example of this sort of difference, well, compare the Korean wikipedia article on the "Liancourt Rocks" to the Japanese version. And then compare it to the Japanese wikipedia article... For another case, compare Hebrew vs Arabic article on Sabra and Shatila.

@thereisanamegoingon7267 11 месяцев назад

Sabra and Shatila was really interesting (and of course the topic itself very sad). Total lack of vs prominent stirring pictures, emphasizing the IDF less or more, calling 450-3500 "several hundreds", lower bar of 750 vs 450, using objective language vs "knives; women, children, elderly; the massacre that shook the world". Great example.

@darjuz96 Год назад

He edited also some voices in italian wikipedia, but in his user page discussion, you can found alerts against him. This between 2006-2009.

@pavlehorvat4401 Месяц назад

It's interesting that as a Croat, I never knew or heard of this event happening until I stumbled upon this video.

@gamermapper 5 месяцев назад

You forget to mention that there's actually 4 languages on Wikipedia for basically the same language. Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Serbo-Croatian. Basically, the real name of the language is Serbo-Croatian, but for political reasons each country decided that their dialect is a different language. Wikipedia includes all these variants. However, all these three languages have a nationalistic bias towards their country. All while the Serbo-Croatian one is pretty neutral. So Croatians always had and have the chance to read the Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia.

@zanki9838 Год назад

One sentiment from this video hits the nail perfectly. The right wing is terrified because people are missing a time of social security. This is also the case in Serbia where chetnik apologists are doing nationwide historical revisionism.

@seanhartnett79 Год назад

I mean people obviously miss the past because thinks are getting bad the world over.

@domino5162 Год назад

Workers and Resources soundtrack put a smile on my face, thank you! :DD

@AltF4OuttaHere Год назад

this story’s wild but not SUPER incredibly surprising

@JmKrokY Год назад

How is it not suprising?

@AltF4OuttaHere Год назад

⁠@@JmKrokYcroatian wikipedia isnt that large and neither is its editor base, so combatting a high concentration of far right people would be harder than it usually is, especially since there isnt as much publicity for it

@LostSky866 Год назад

The constitution of Croatia literally forbids any kind of unification with former Yugoslav states.

@Neuttah Год назад

Hm. Good spot for a joke about how they did exactly that a decade ago.

@JmKrokY Год назад

Bad constitution

@JmKrokY Год назад

@@Neuttah Hmmm kinda true actually

@PineappleDealer37 7 месяцев назад

So it doesn't forbid from unification with any non-former-yugoslav states! Poland can still offer you to unite together!

@MrTeaLiving 7 месяцев назад

Actually it forbids uniting into a Yugoslavia, not uniting with former states per se, that's why entering the EU was constitutional even though Slovenia was already in

@maximusthezoura Год назад

I love the music choice you chose at the beginning, wr:sr ost is very underrated. By any change, do you play the game?

@yuvalne 4 месяца назад

so what i'm hearing is that for at least 7 years this was very public knowledge and the Wikimedia foundation did literally nothing.

@Argacyan 4 месяца назад

Also this is still going on, and not just Croatians specifically but it's a broader problem. For example if you keep track of articles which mention or are related to pre-WW2 Polish history & Germans or the areas which were inhabited by Germans east of the current border, there's Polish fascists editing or reversing the edits of others, towards a nationalist Polish narrative with little to absolutely zero pushback by people higher up in the pecking order. The same is present on Czech wiki, etc.

@2tehnik Год назад

I wonder if that’s the reason that everyone kept telling me Wikipedia was bad and unreliable when I was in Middle school (and HS sometimes).

@JmKrokY Год назад

Maybe

@HistoryHustle Год назад

Very interesting video. I have to deal with these ultranationalists when making videos about Croatian WW2 history. It's pretty insanse.

@oliverreinisch704 Год назад

Wasn't expecting to see you here. Love your content btw

@user-dg2cv1wt4i Год назад

I have to deal to serbian communist propagadist who are against Croatia like his propagada chennel

@JmKrokY Год назад

@@user-dg2cv1wt4i Jugoslavija 🇭🇷

@sentaveliki425 10 месяцев назад

You dont have to deal with anyone its that mental soy gop barrier that you carry all day long 😂

@jonomobono3223 8 месяцев назад

Why you dont make Videos about other WW2 or 1990s history? Probably because you are Anti-croatian propagandist spreading a lot of lies

@king-of-a-thing 5 месяцев назад

Pavelic fleed the country dressed up as nun. He was the ultimate coward.

@BifronsCandle Год назад

Guess you could say that Croatian wikipedia... tossed Kubura down the pit.

@djjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj Год назад

Bro is mining stone rn

@oort2108 Год назад

This reminds me when a uni class mate edited the spanish wikipedia article about England making it say that England's anthem was the "Cara Al Sol"

@SloveneAnon 4 месяца назад

That's just garden variety wikipedia vandalism though. Not similar at all.

@JamLeGull 8 месяцев назад

It's terrifying to think about how much damage this campaign did to Croatian society. The persecution complex of the far right is so infuriating, and it has a habit of infecting normal people with far right ideas. I don't oppose Croatian fascists because I don't like Croatia or Croatians, far from it. I think the fact that fascist elements claim to be the true Croatians does foment animosity towards Croatia and its people, so the blame absolutely lies with them, not the critics of Croatian fascism.

@aglassofwater7931 Месяц назад

Many people do not know that Ustasha songs are listened to at weddings in Croatia.

@Schussel-ik8ro Год назад

I'm from Germany and I love to look up Articles in both english and german to see how they compare. Sometimes you just get a few tidbits of info more in one language, sometimes the spin on the topic is quite different, really interesting, would recommend trying it to anyone who is bilingual :)

@sentaveliki425 10 месяцев назад

Raise yor banner germans we croats are on your side just like back in the good ol days

@gamermapper 5 месяцев назад

English speakers often believe that anyone who doesn't speak English misses out on a very important part of the world and is closed off. That you absolutely need to know English and read English Wikipedia, and those who don't are poor people who didn't have the possibility to learn English. That's even the impression I got from the video's author, which seems pretty Anglocentric. Like, "only" 60% of Croatia speaks English. To me at least, this seems pretty biased and Anglocentric. Most people in the Anglosphere don't know any other language. Fewer than 20% of the US speaks German, Croatian, or even Spanish to the same extent the rest of the world speaks English, or even multiple languages. If anything, it's them who are closed off and ignorant, since they never read German, Croatian, Russian, or literally any other Wikipedia than their own. But since their culture and language is everywhere, they don't even realise that.

@gabriel9116j 4 месяца назад

@gamermapper I mean 90% of the internet is in english

@h3nder Год назад

I do believe the Serbian Wiki has some issues when it comes to all the war crimes, or at least it used to. Fucking love the Balkans, love when we get really angry at each other because we speak a bit different and the old people follow the same god differently.

@BokicaK1 Год назад

Yes, it does. I am an ex-sr.wiki editor who fought against Kubura since 2007/2008/2009 until 2019. But problems on sr.wiki are not of same magnitude. No sysops with sockpuppets and who persecute and block opposition . Sr. Wiki is copy-paste Wiki, many articles are word-to-word translations of their English counterparts. It has some bias in articles about national history (e.g. Kosovo or Republika Srpska). Not single one wikipedia is perfect

@JmKrokY Год назад

@@BokicaK1 Interesting

@napoleon_bonaparte_the_great Год назад

Ok so, the ending had me bawling on three things: If you remove wikipedia from the context, at around 13:50 the chat is - The Arab states are ruled by a joint Ba'athist Party Committee - Croatia went Fascist for a bit, but was overturned via UN intervention after a UN Report - 2/3 Solutions for Croatian Right-Wing{ism} is to reunite Yugoslavia in some form

@FreddaYT Год назад

It's actually so funny

@notjustiny.6750 Год назад

I loved this video, and also how it explains how fascism takes over institutions. Cant wait for more of your uploads!

@SamiTheAnxiousBean 19 дней назад

the serbian Wikipedia is for the most part still like this in certain articles, however it doesn't get fixed because a majority of the Mainland Serbian population are unfortunutely far right leaning, which includes our own government, it's not AS BAD as croatia was because they actually try to read as actual articles but it's still evident they have a bias In the English wikipedia, every single article about the Gaza/Palestinian genocide is also insanely pro-isreal at the moment