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How THE JEDI Changed - Lore Evolution ft SPACEDOCK 

Rowan J Coleman
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Another Lore Evolution now with the help of friend of the channel, Daniel from Spacedock. We examine the changing face of The Jedi Order throughout the Star Wars Saga.
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29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 88   
@RowanJColeman
@RowanJColeman 4 года назад
Special thanks to Spacedock for helping out with this one :) I have some more additions to my Star Wars reading list now :) Check out their channel for all kinds of sci-fi goodness ru-vid.com/show-UCfjaAUlTZRHJapJmCT6eyIg
@AngryEwok
@AngryEwok 4 года назад
Word "Sith" was used in early drafts for Star Wars and it was in delited scene of the original movie, where Tagge names Vader as a sith lord
@Jokie155
@Jokie155 4 года назад
Weeeeell, there is a clipped segment from the start of the Imperial command meeting in A New Hope, where 'Sith Lord' is mentioned by General Tagge. So the name was definitely there from the beginning, just not in a true on-screen canon sense. But otherwise I do agree that the original concept for the Emperor and Vader is significantly different from what it evolved into over the many years. "I'm telling you he's gone too far. This, Sith Lord, will be our undoing."
@Spacedock
@Spacedock 4 года назад
Thanks for having me Rowan. This video turned out great!
@dougm2174
@dougm2174 4 года назад
I loved it, cross-collaboration between two of my favorite channels.
@subraxas
@subraxas 4 года назад
I'm also subscribed to Spicedick. :-)
@gladyswangui2201
@gladyswangui2201 3 года назад
@@subraxas Spacedock lol.
@Mitchell_Gant
@Mitchell_Gant 4 года назад
In Episode 4, Vader's choking of high ranking imperial officer #456 69 69 kind of counts as phisical manipulation of "object" with the force.
@LENZ5369
@LENZ5369 4 года назад
There is nothing the Jedi could have done (other than leaving him on Tatooine or just murdering him as a child) to prevent Anakin from becoming Vader. Anakin would have done anything to save Padme and Palpatine was the only game in town. Obi Wan or Yoda giving him a hug and a shoulder to cry on; is probably not going to make Anakin's creepy, possessive obsession with Padme just disappear.
@TheMagicPlumber
@TheMagicPlumber 4 года назад
HOLY COW! My mom used to read me a star wars expanded universe book as a bedtime story but i could never remember what it was called. But it was splinter of the minds eye. Thank you so much for jaring that memory im gonna go buy it and read it again
@davidlewis5312
@davidlewis5312 3 года назад
My serious issue with the depiction of the Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy is basically summed as this: They have taken infants from their parents (and I don't believe we ever got a clear answer on if the parents get to say no) and raised them in seclusion in the Jedi Order, breaking all attachment to their previous life. Raised and conditioned them to be only jedi and also told feelings and relationships are bad. I have a serious problem with the fact you never really have a choice to not be a Jedi and I find it hilarious that in an authority vs freedom narrative of the Rise of the Empire; it could be argued that for the Jedi and Sith (internally) the Jedi represent authoritative power and the sith represent freedom while outwardly (regarding the people outside their orders) they seek the opposite.
@Obi-Wan_Kenobi
@Obi-Wan_Kenobi Год назад
We do get a clear answer, the parents are allowed to say no. Saying otherwise is a bad faith argument.
@Ryan30z
@Ryan30z 9 месяцев назад
You're allowed to leave the order, Obi Wan almost leaves at one point.
@Caidoe_Esthov
@Caidoe_Esthov 4 месяца назад
And also, Count Dooku left the Jedi order
@jamesriendeau7351
@jamesriendeau7351 3 года назад
When I was a kid I always imagined that the Jedi were a lot more like a military organization or similar to real world orders of knights like the Knights Templar. The uniform Luke wears in ROTJ (which at the time was supposed to be a Jedi uniform) and the references to their role in the Clone Wars and Anakin's fighter pilot skills also give that impression. I'd imagined the typical Jedi Knight was along the lines of ROTJ Luke and Jedi Masters like Obi-Wan and Yoda retired to a more monk-ish existence after their glory days were behind them. The prequels portray the Jedi as primarily a monastic order who were actually kind of caught off guard by the Clone Wars and unaccustomed to serving as commanding officers in a military.
@TheVileOne
@TheVileOne 4 года назад
Phantom Menace came out 16 years after Return of the Jedi not 26.
@samiamtheman7379
@samiamtheman7379 3 года назад
George's Midichlorians, while controversial, seem to be his way of explaining that not just anyone can be a Jedi. If anyone could wield the Force as a Jedi, then there would be more people doing it. This basically helps measure how much potential someone has in the Force.
@fruitylerlups530
@fruitylerlups530 Год назад
also the midichlorians were intended to be quite mystical and magical in nature anyway
@Allangulon
@Allangulon 4 года назад
Imagine if Lucas had written and Spielberg directed?
@RowanJColeman
@RowanJColeman 4 года назад
That was the plan for Return of the Jedi. However because Lucas quit the DGA, it couldn't happen.
@jarjared3522
@jarjared3522 4 года назад
George Lucas approached Lawrence Kasdan, Steven Spielberg, Ron Howard, and Robert Zemeckis about Episode I but they all said he should do it himself.
@alfredoprime5495
@alfredoprime5495 3 года назад
What I never understood about the SW universe is why the hell the force-sensitives aren't killed whenever and wherever they are found. It seems like it's extremely easy for them to fall to the dark side (even those who undergo the grueling and rigorous Jedi training) and then go on a genocidal rampage across the galaxy. LOL!
@michaellewis1545
@michaellewis1545 4 года назад
I just realised that Star Wars is first series were the canon is affected by video games. Do any of the Star Trek games count as canon?
@GothicLightingQueen
@GothicLightingQueen 4 года назад
I think mabye Star Trek Online because that focus on what happens un the prime timeli e after Spock travels to the JJ universe.
@Tyler_W
@Tyler_W 4 года назад
@@GothicLightingQueen but Star Trek online doesn't predate the first Star Wars games, which is his point.
@davidlewis5312
@davidlewis5312 3 года назад
I would argue intrepretation of the canon is affected by video games. Take for example the concept of Grey Jedi. That is utterly the providence of the video games but in particular KOTOR and DF2: Jedi Knight. However, Grey Jedi has zero connection to the movie based canon, its a concept that the movies actually dismiss rather hard (though Rise of the Skywalkers probably took that further than I really tolerate). In the games, the Force is a tool and why you use it is relevant to your morality. In the movies, the Force is determinant factor and HOW you use it determines your morality.
@ianhanson3465
@ianhanson3465 3 года назад
I'm guessing that when Luke destroys the the death Star in the first movie, that he is following the traditions of kyudo (archery). Where the goal is to not try to hit the target. But to will yourself to hit the target. Purpose is to not try
@kylejwood1051
@kylejwood1051 4 года назад
26 years later... 83... to 2009? your math is off there
@RowanJColeman
@RowanJColeman 4 года назад
I think I meant to say 16 years. Although I am shite at maths haha
@dismafuggerhere2753
@dismafuggerhere2753 4 года назад
question to everyone: do people think Lucas made the clone wars to be about robot armies after releasing you can't really have spiritual practitioners slicing thru scores and scores of living beings ?
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 4 года назад
No, theres never been an issue with "spiritual practitioners " killing. And since droids have been established already to be beloved characters in their own right by the original films I dont think cutting down droid armies is a legitimate way to clear any maral hurdles with the fans.
@SC-mq1eh
@SC-mq1eh 4 года назад
@@DrewLSsix IIRC most troopers die from blaster fire - droids def were an out to avoid seeing hordes of troopers/people sliced and diced like christmas hams
@Lia-uf1ir
@Lia-uf1ir 2 года назад
What I love about the first Star Wars film of 1977 is that the Force isn't something that you are born with (like wizards in Harry Potter) but something that you can learn through intense training, something everybody can theoretically do and I like this concept much better!
@shmee123ful
@shmee123ful 4 года назад
Next up how warhammer 40k evolved hehehe
@apostolispouliakis7401
@apostolispouliakis7401 4 года назад
I have never been much of a Star Wars fan myself ( I have just seen the television content and not all of it) and what I cannot understand is the toxicity of it's fanbase it is quite baffling to me how people can get so riled up and hateful for a movie
@thunderbug8640
@thunderbug8640 3 года назад
To be honest I don’t really get the place where your comment comes from. For starters what has been dubbed “toxicity” by most media outlets is either reasonable criticism or just understandable backlash, sure there may be a few bag eggs but the comments, vids and essays I’ve seen, it’s a lot btw, have very little of anything that could be genuinely deemed “toxic”. I also think that to say “riled up over a movie” portrays a very limited view of what actually happened. The Legends material referred to in this video, was essentially discarded by Disney the moment they took over only to be replaced with unarguably worse material, so that’s point one to be annoyed by if you’re a fan. Then they go ahead and make a trilogy of really crap movies, which are just worse retellings of legends material they so eagerly discarded (Sequel trilogy is just a really bad version of Legacy of the Force and Dark Empire mashed together); so, there’s another reason to be angry as a fan. Then, and perhaps most damning of all for Disney and “Media”, you have to deal with being called a racist, sexist and god knows what else by “reputable media outlets” and even Disney themselves simply for not falling in line and loving the movies because “inclusivity” and “diversity”, never mind that it would require overlooking that they are badly made, poorly written and terribly paced piles of hot garbage. Only people who are soft in the head to all the diversity and inclusivity BS would like what Disney has done since they took control, this isn’t just a movie to lifelong Star Wars fans (I include myself among that number) its essentially taken everything for the past 40 sum years with very specific exceptions and set it all on fire only to replace it with agenda driven manure.
@jedanarcher7806
@jedanarcher7806 4 года назад
The Jedi in the OT were not depicted as wise and sacred; in fact Obi Wan and Yoda systematically lied and deceived Luke - its the main twist in the OT. They mislead the orphan Luke to hate and kill his own father by making Luke believe that he would actually avenge his father - heinous for a mentor; and they were ultimately hypocritical about it when exposed. It did not even make sense to have Luke fight Vader, why not the real Sith enemy (Palpatine), not his old, conflicted henchman Vader. Further: Yoda suggesting to Anakin in Ep III to let go of attachments is rooted in Empire, where Yoda suggested the same to Luke and let Leia and Han die to "honor what they fought for". It's only consistent.
@keiths81ca
@keiths81ca 4 года назад
You make the Sequels sound good. Maybe I should rewatch it with a different expectation going in.
@fruitylerlups530
@fruitylerlups530 Год назад
The Last Jedi is the only good one tbh
@DeanPickersgill
@DeanPickersgill 3 года назад
This one was fascinating, thank you.
@johnsears6077
@johnsears6077 3 года назад
Cannot believe this man did not mention the bene gesserit
@white-dragon4424
@white-dragon4424 Месяц назад
I don't call what I saw the Jedi doing in the PT "sword fighting". Sword fighting is this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iMLItFkwyHA.html All I saw in the PT was monks twirling glow sticks around at incredible speeds like batons. There just wasn't any agency or emotions to them. It was all video game style over substance. And although bad, the Jedi weren't the worst things about the PT. There were far worse things about the PT than them, with the worst being this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kSr6inIv75o.html
@theanonymouscritic1710
@theanonymouscritic1710 Год назад
Great Video. But we know that Rowen’s wrong about the Prequels. The Phantom Menace: 4/5. Attack of the Clones: 4/5. Revenge of the Sith: 5/5 easily. ❤👍
@meiketorkelson4437
@meiketorkelson4437 2 года назад
Interesting. You are right that Sith are never mentioned in the prequels. But the Marvel comics in 1977 always called Vader a Dark Lord of the Sith. Probably some back story which Lucas dropped in without realising.
@Voidelle
@Voidelle Год назад
I kind of.. hate this philosophy of the Jedi? lol Ignorance is.. good? It’s a bad lesson. Like taking the worst parts of religion along side the worst parts of a government.
@myself2noone
@myself2noone 4 года назад
They went form one person's poor understanding of Buddisim to multiple peoples poor understanding of Stoicism and Buddisim.
@HufflepuffDaddy
@HufflepuffDaddy 2 года назад
It's Buddhism with an "h" not Buddisim
@Allangulon
@Allangulon 4 года назад
Check out Electric earth: Secret of the Djed pillars, For a very interesting take on Lucas's inspiration.
@BoostedMonkey05
@BoostedMonkey05 4 года назад
What arc?
@factualopinion6947
@factualopinion6947 4 года назад
Space wizards
@brya9681
@brya9681 2 года назад
I really like the new trilogy, at the very least rise of Skywalker was entertaining. And all of the new movies are better than return of the jedi. Yeah I said it, that movie is rough to watch
@DylanDunne
@DylanDunne 3 года назад
I am 100% with you on The Last Jedi. There are literally dozens of us!
@PantherJaguar
@PantherJaguar 3 года назад
Yes! It's so nice to see positivity about The Last Jedi on the internet whenever it can be found.
@proggyboi7115
@proggyboi7115 4 года назад
CAPRICA.
@InternetMameluq
@InternetMameluq 4 года назад
10:00: Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno. This is only one of the first videos that I've seen from you, but you have a great misunderstanding of the Jedi dogma, and chose a guy who has a similar misunderstanding of them. This video that you're linking to is leagues beyond this, to the point that I cannot stress how you should not listen to him enough. The Jedi do NOT support suppressing your emotions, in fact that is more accurate to say about the sith, although that is entirely accurate. The Jedi believe in 'letting go' of your emotions. That is not suppression, that is expression. But it is not rejection either; the emotions are not forced from one's person, but let to do their own thing. By contrast the Sith hold onto their emotions, and don't let go. They dwell on their emotion, and let it fester. The result of this is physical and spiritual corruption that eats them from the inside out. The jedi do not reject emotion, they accept it. Edit: and to be clear, I'm talking about the Jedi philosphy, not the Jedi order, which in fact had atrophied and become unrespondent to real world needs and the force. Rather than enacting the Will of the Force, they enacted the will of the Republic, which means they are corrupt as an institution and function, which lead to their downfall, ironically through the mechinations of the republic wielded by their enemies. Which is actually pretty brilliant when I write it down.
@Napoleonic_S
@Napoleonic_S 4 года назад
I'd say that it's you who is mistaken, jedi do suppress many of their emotions.
@davidlewis5312
@davidlewis5312 3 года назад
There is no sorrow... There is no fear... There is no hate There is no love... Do I have to quote more of the oath?
@InternetMameluq
@InternetMameluq 3 года назад
@@davidlewis5312 I can assure you that all those things exist, and that Jedi feel them.
@relo999
@relo999 Год назад
Mediums are a form of mystics, Media is the multiple of Medium as in "the medium of film".
@matrimalviarin5043
@matrimalviarin5043 4 года назад
Luke had his arc where he was disillusioned to the Jedi. It was in The Empire Strikes Back, where he actively ignored the will of his Jedi Masters, saved Leia, Chewbacca, R2-D2, and C-3P0 from the Empire, then learned the truth about his father. In Return of the Jedi, Luke had fompeltley shed the mysticism of the Jedi in his heart and mind, instead doing what he thought was right. We see that the Jedi teachings are not reflected in him whatsoever, being as emotional and impulsive as Anakin was in the past, in some ways moreso, all the while being guided by the Force and his own innate morality. Luke's arc in The Last Jedi straight up ignores Luke's arc in the Original Trilogy, which when contextualized with the Prequels, is as much about overcoming the erroneous teachings of the Jedi as it is the defeat of the Empire.
@catsupchutney
@catsupchutney 3 года назад
Examine deconstruct and build, or change in all aspects except for the names of characters.
@ravencloud7
@ravencloud7 4 года назад
hummmmmmmmm very little reference to baby yoda
@RowanJColeman
@RowanJColeman 4 года назад
This was written before that episode came out haha
@michaeldriggers7681
@michaeldriggers7681 3 года назад
83-99 is only 16 years, not 26.
@dougm2174
@dougm2174 4 года назад
I loved it, cross-collaboration between two of my favorite channels.
@JoeDobisz
@JoeDobisz 3 года назад
The yuzhaan vong should have been used as main antagonists in the sequel trilogy, far more interesting than the empire MK2 or the first order as its officially known
@Sinewmire
@Sinewmire 3 года назад
Disney wanted to replicate, not innovate. Star Wars is essentially a continuation of their live-action reboots, with a little directorial flair thrown in.
@TheMacKosh
@TheMacKosh 2 года назад
They were just a rip off space orcs, and them being outside The Force was ridiculous
@steve8610
@steve8610 4 года назад
You had me (a few bumps along the way) up until that endorsement of the Case Against the Jedi video. I hated that so much (no disrespect!)
@jacobturnerart
@jacobturnerart 4 года назад
I'm sure the term 'Sith' was present at the time of the first trilogy. I remember Vader referred to as "The Dark Lord of the Sith" on merchandise.
@goodmind4940
@goodmind4940 4 года назад
Yeah, it was also in deleted scene of ANH
@killvader1001
@killvader1001 2 года назад
Yeah the term definitely existed, it just didn't mean what it meant now. Which is the case for pretty much all names and made up words in star wars (for example alderaan was the imperial homeworld)
@Inignot12
@Inignot12 4 года назад
Nice collaboration! Love both your channels!
@Ljordan093
@Ljordan093 4 года назад
Superb video! Do one about the Sith!
@ericc.petrie7572
@ericc.petrie7572 4 года назад
Very smartly done.
@scottr2314
@scottr2314 4 года назад
at 8:22 Coleman (I presume accidentally) uses the term subvertion of expectation. After Rian Johnson used "Subvert your expectations" I don't think that that language in connection with Star Wars should be used for a long time because instantly reminds people of the failure of Rian Johnson.
@TheMacKosh
@TheMacKosh 2 года назад
Nice to see a RU-vidr who gets what was going on with Luke in The Last Jedi. Fantastic!
@JaelaOrdo
@JaelaOrdo 3 года назад
Legends > Disney Canon
@kylejwood1051
@kylejwood1051 4 года назад
"His main stumbling block as a writer is dialogue and his main block as a director is working with actors." Lol my god what else is there to those two things? His main problem with writing is the words he puts on the page and his main problem as a director is how he directs? We all just need to face it... he was a great storyteller in his time but we should have put him in a home in the 90s and taken away the reins so he couldn't ruin a great thing.
@jjkrayenhagen
@jjkrayenhagen 4 года назад
Lucas has always been a visual director. You can see that in all of his films. They always look great. However when it comes to dialogue and the actors talking to each other, it's always wooden. The prequil trilogy is a prime example of this.
@HufflepuffDaddy
@HufflepuffDaddy 2 года назад
Lucas was only age 45-55 during the 1990s decade and still alive and kicking. I don't know if that qualifies him to be put in a "home" because he ruined your childhood somehow.
@rockybeats8682
@rockybeats8682 4 года назад
The sequel trilogy is trash. Just wacky disney bad fan fiction trash.
@Werezilla
@Werezilla 4 года назад
Are you sure you want to recommend The Case Against the Jedi? It was made by Jonathan McIntosh, who is closely associated with the infamous feminist Anita Sarkeesian. Who most people hate with a passion.
@RowanJColeman
@RowanJColeman 4 года назад
Well, I didn't recommend a video by Anita Sarkeesian. I recommended Pop Culture Detective
@ThrashMetallix
@ThrashMetallix 4 года назад
I had a chuckle at your Prequel Ranking. For me: Phantom Menace: Meh Attack of the Clones: Terrible... but love that final act. Revenge of the Sith: My least favorite film of the entire Star Wars franchise. This movie birthed my inner critic in so many ways.
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