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Dear weshammer, I've been a fan of your content for a long time, and I am well aware of how valuable your time is and I know this is probably really annoying but I thought that I'd give it a shot I'm not sure if have watched the amazing RU-vid series "what if the emperor had a text to speech device" but I thought you'd be a big fan the premise is the adaptest mechanics have a text to speech device from ancient Terra and have used it on the emperor of mankind now the emperor is back and trying to fix all the problems with the Imperium it is a amazing show and I and many others would love to see you review it again sorry for being annoying your Loyally -sir multiverse (PS sorry for any spelling mistakes I'm Dislaxic)
@@sirmultiverse5896 oh I am a big fan! Ive watched the whole thing and was heart broken when it ended. Alfabasa seems happy making his new series tho and that's what really matters :)
The transformation happened in the immediate aftermath of Prospero, when the Space Wolves were corned by the Alpha Legion in the Alaxxes Nebula. It's in a short story collection called "The Burden of Loyalty". Russ felt horrible for killing Magnus, admitted that he was wrong...which was a huge blow to his pride...to throw salt in the wound, the entire 6th Legion would have perished without the intervention of the Dark Angels, another Legion they had beef with. The story itself was called "The Wolf King" and written by Chris Wraight. He's by far the best writer for Space Wolves. He also handles the White Scars great. Really understands the "noble savage" mentality of the 5th and 6th Legion. Also, read "Wolfsbane". It didn't take 10,000 years for the Space Wolves to learn from their mistakes. Russ recognized his failing and made sure he corrected it.
Leman Russ actually had an arc in the Heresy, probably one of the only detailed and positive arcs among the loyalist Primarchs. A shame most people never get to appreciate it.
Leman was the reason the space wolves implemented change. He realized he can be more than his father’s weapon and didn’t want another Prospero to happen.
To be fair to Russ, the Emperor ordering a full genocide including one of his legions is kinda in character after the destruction of Khur and Monarchia
And to add further. The 2 ''Lost Legions'' must have been Big E's decision aswell, so it aint too crazy to get an order or purging, and if we want our tinfoil hats on, Russ and his Legion might aswell had been part of that too
@@Onkoloinen And he'd held a vote with the Primarchs over whether to Un-exist Lorgar before Monarchia too. So the idea he'd do it again after Magnus defied his explicit instruction to not use magic (plus Russ's hate for magic), understandable why he didn't doubt it
On Khur and in monarchia itself all of the civilians were allowed to leave. Only the city was torn down. The emperor is not heartless to the civilians of the imperium. It is the imperium of man and that is stressed multiple times. The emperor is building it for humanity.
Wes did at least say they were “tasteful” death threats but dude, you really need to do something else with your time. May I suggest crochet? It’s my go-to when I start thinking of sending death threats!
The Space Wolves are the army that regularly I play the TT game with. They aren't the legion I would have picked right off the bat, but one of my best friends passed away and he bequeathed his massive 5k point army to me and 85% of it was comprised of Space Wolves, with the rest being Sororitas and Sisters of Silence. He also left me a 2k point Custodes army and a troupe of Harlequins, but he hadn't painted them yet. All that said, I play the Space Wolves proudly at any opportunity, because it's my tribute to my friend who loved that legion, and now I do too. I've even updated them with new tanks, Dreadnaughts, Primaris, Knights, and even a Warhound, with banners to his memory. So while I would have preferred Dark Angels, White Scars, Salamanders, or even Ultramarines (I began liking them a lot more after RG came back). The shaggy Vikings are my guys, and I have great love for them.
The change technically began during the Heresy itself during events after the Burning of Prospero when Russ himself began to doubt his role as the Emperor's Executioner. It's pretty much spelled out in the audio drama Wolf's Claw then followed that up with the novel Vengeful Spirit and then the novel Wolfsbane here Russ openly disagreed with the Emperor's decisions and for also letting himself be manipulated by Horus into destroying the Thousand Sons and the world of Prospero. While the Horus Heresy's beginnings showed the Wolves at their worst (thought it seemed that their role as the Emperor's Executioners fit them at the time) as the Heresy progressed we get to see how the Burning of Prospero and the events afterwards would help pivot the Wolves to be less Executioners and more Protectors of the Imperium.
@@dumbidea1007 True, but I still think Russ' thinking was becoming less Executioner and more wanting to do things his way instead of just what the Emperor told him to do. I also think that the one person that impacted Russ' thinking ended up being left behind to lead the Chapter while Russ and his veterans left for the Eye of Terror to find the Tree of Life: Bjorn the Fell-Handed. Bjorn probably had a huge impact in moving The Rout to becoming less murder-make executioners to more of the 40k Wolves we know now.
@@Tullaryx "Wanting to do things his way instead of just what the Emperor told him to do." Isn't thinking he knew better than the Emperor, like... the whole reason you guys criticize Magnus so much?
@@peterlepper5199disagreeing with people doesn't necessarily mean thinking you know better than them. It all depends on if you're arrogant enough to think that way. Otherwise you just do stuff the way you feel comfortable doing them and aren't a sucker that follows every order to the letter
Thanks for taking the time to type out the full explanation for those who haven’t read all the source materiel. The Horus Heresy is a prequel for a reason, people…it’s supposed to show how the legions change over time!
Russ himself implemented the change after Prospero. He had a change of heart later in the novels, and vowed to never be the cause of something like that again. He couldn't even land the killing blow on Horus when he had the chance to kill him because of it
14:53 I’m a huge fan of Brother Hendrickson from the Ghazkhull book. He’s a runepriest who’s part of an Inquisitors entourage. Dude’s actually pretty chill with loyalist psychers even tutors Cassandra (the only known Ogren psycher to exist)
@@mrblack5145 oh its absolutely heresy, and that is why she was executed immediately after the battle her powers manifested... any and all doubts or concerns about the validity of her execution should be referred to the office of Inquisitor Titonnida Falx
Tbh, Leman Russ's journey if he returns now reminds me of Odin's tale. Odin sacrificed his eye to learn of the runes and how fate works, wandered far and wide for wisdom and mingled with mortal men to learn of their plight. When he returned to Valhalla as the one eyed king, he was wise, almost all-knowing and more powerful then ever. If they did something similar to Russ, then He'd could return as a rival or loyal mirror image of what Magnus is.
Let's be fair to the story tellers. 40k was written first and then 30k was written after by several writers with differing levels of familiarity with the setting. The Horus Heresy was setup by GW on the fly with a very limited outline. That's why several of the books contradict each other. Some of the bad writing can be drawn up to the fact that the Sons of Horus (Black Legion) were called the Lunar Wolves. Russ is the Emperor's Executioner and many writers made Russ flat due to the differing views of the Emperor in the Horus Heresy novels.
What I would like to happen is for Russ to come back, with only his right eye, allowing him to Mirror Magnus completely. Seeing as we're getting big old psyker buffs on a lot of characters are getting, maybe Russ could have claimed Magnus'' actual eye from Tzeentch, or something
I know a lot of people have already written this, but a big appeal of the Wolves is how much they change between 30k and 40k. Because you're right. In 30k, the Space Wolves are little more than bullies and butchers who serve a demagogue leader, and they revel in their unhinged actions. Prospero might be the biggest example of their thoughtless violence, but its only one of countless times the Space Wolves act this way. But here's the thing - Prospero wasn't a victory. It was an abject failure on the part of the Wolves and especially Leman Russ. Because of Prospero, the Thousand Sons fully fell to Tzeentch, and the Wolves would never make it to Terra to fight in the Siege. Russ did try to communicate with Magnus prior to the Burning, but even with Magnus not responding to his hails to talk about the situation, Russ' impatience and lack of critical thinking led to a situation that was far, far worse than if he had just questioned an order. People talk about how the Wolves loyalty is their biggest strength, but it's also one of their greatest weaknesses when it's turned against them. And that's why they realized they needed to change. They couldn't just be a weapon, they needed to live up to the heroic aspirations that, for the majority of the Heresy and Great Crusade, they were just pretending to. Even Leman Russ, the biggest bully of them all, saw how his unquestioning loyalty to the Emperor and willingness to committ atrocities caused more harm than good and left his legion to make it right. Of course, his definition of "make it right" was to enter the warp and find mythical seeds to revitalize the very demagogue who turned him into a weapon, so it's not great, but it's something. Ultimatley, for a chapter that desparately wants to color itself in the shades of it's successes, they're defined by their failures. Their failure to self-reflect, their failure to question orders, and their failure to think past personal glory. It's why the Space Wolves of 40k are so much more empathetic (for Space Marines, that is) and willing to push back against what they feel is wrong. That's some serious character development, and it's why I like them so much. This is largely a ramble post, but I wanted to add my 2 cents. Great video, btw.
I really like how the Space Wolves have the most liberty in the imperium of all chapters and how they openly defy decisions that would be basically common sense among other astartes, like the Codex for example. For me they are as much a force of the future as the ultramarines are, each of them representing an aspect of what the Imperium will need in times of peace (if there would ever be one lol).
40K Space Wolves are total bros that are one of the most noble bright elements of the setting, and have been since 2nd edition. How Black Library managed to balls up their 30K lore so badly is beyond me.
Calling anyone else the worst primarch when drooling angry boy exists is a bokd statement. OH BUT HIS STORY IS TRAGIC. Yeah well that's his past I get it he gets that excuse doesn't change the fact I hate every second he's in a story because he's just an annoying angry sad douche.
@ravenmckay-croswell1980 tell me which loyalist primarch is worse than Johnson? Almost gets Guilliman killed by Kurze by not telling him he was on his ship, gives Perterabo the most powerful siege weapons as a bribe to get him to vote for the lion as the new warmaster, kills one of his most loyal sons for questioning his breaking of the edict of nykea, sends away his oldest friend and a bunch of other dark angels without telling them why creating a massive rift in his own legion, spends years destroying the traitor home world's instead of trying to get to Terra as quickly as possible to help with the Siege. Literally, the only thing 30k Johnson is good at is fighting. It's a very close race to the bottom between russ and johnson for the worst loyalist primarch of the Horus heresy era.
@ravenmckay-croswell1980 oh I also forgot that Johnson is responsible for the tyranids too. If it weren't for him chasing down rumors of kurze he would have been able to protect the pharos device and it wouldn't have blown up attracting the nids.
This bias against Russ is ridiculous he didn’t even want to invade Prospero he practically begged Magnus to talk and return to Terra peacefully but the message never got through. While in the alexus nebula fighting Alpharius Russ vowed with Bjorn that he would change the Space Wolves for the better and never blindly willingly follow orders refusing to be just a Executioner. Russ caused the change for the 30k Wolves and Bjorn ensured his dream would last after his disappearance into the warp.
Yea Bjorns arc during the Heresy was great there’s alot of rumors going around that Russ is the next returning Primarch so i cant wait for him nd Bjorn to reunite in 40k.
@@wolflordgio6320 I mean they don't really have many other choices. Out of the 9 loyal primarchs, 2 have returned (Lion and Robot), 2 are VERY dead (Iron hand of the iron hands and Sanguinius). That leaves 5. Vulkan will return once the salamanders finally collect all the exodia pieces. Corvus is stuck in the warp, torturing Lorgar. Speedy mcspeed is having the biggest orgy in the webway with some eldar. Dorn is all but confirmed dead. That leaves Russ :) Sure he's sort of stuck in the warp too as far as we know. But he could return as a wise Odin like character. Would be cool!
As a die-hard Space Wolves fan, it´s been a joy watching this video. I believe most of the hatred towards Space Wolves comes from a place of superficial knowledge, I´m really glad you dug deep on their lore. I live in constant fear that this hatred will make GW slowly make the wolves disappear as a main faction, I only wish they step up and just do something important about them. The one part I disagree with is your view on Leman Russ, I find him quite judgmental about himself when alone with his thoughts, even if he doesn´t show it outwardly so clearly (which makes sense, as a wolf he shouldn´t show weakness). He regrets so much of what he´s done, and even when invading Prospero he pretty much begs Magnus to surrender before landing on the planet, I believe he may hate him but he didn´t want to go down the road of full blown invasion. He loves and hates deeply, and all the emotions in between, he´s so full of errors, I find other primarchs too perfect in their own way (for good or bad) I find Russ one of the most human primarchs. By the end of the Heresy he realizes he has been a brainless automata, following orders blindly, and he pledges to follow his conscious more from then on. He has a really good character growth in my opinion, from feisty lad to a wiser man. I´m expecting him to return in an Odin like figure as you mention, but would be fine with him returning as a mad wulfen-like primarch, both ideas sound good to me. For the wolves as a legion, I just absolutely love their "fu*k you" mentality. Am I gonna die for not following your orders? May we all end in this? Who cares. That makes them incredibly dangerous for any foe, they´ve survived Fenris, isn´t gonna get any worse than that. That "fu*k you" mentality goes so deep that not even the chaos gods can take them, the wolves are some of the most chaos resistant chapters, with very few of their astartes falling to chaos. For such a violent chapter, their code of honour is incredible. This ties in perfectly with that other side of their personality, their lust for life and love of partying. This may be their last night alive, why not have a great last one? Not to mention Logan Grimnar is one of the most charismatic and loveable space marines there are, he will have a beer with you and laugh his ass off but when shit hits the fan he turns into this unstoppable force of nature, and as you mention he lives and dies by his beliefs, part of those being that they are there to protect humanity, something that many other legions have forgotten, which once again creates this beautiful paradox making the violent, bloood thirsty wolves into one of the most humanitarian legions in 40k. "We may be few, and our enemies many. Yet so long as there remains one of us still fighting, one who still rages in the name of justice and truth, then by the Allfather, the galaxy shall yet know hope." Ragnar Blackmane Long live the Vlka Fenryka!
Russ is an interesting character when you get to see inside his head. He plays a lot of mind games, and uses his image as a "Barbarian Lout" to make people underestimate him, even among his brothers. He boasts and swaggers, cause he's playing into an expectation, and then when people often least expect they learn how quickly he can take that mask off when it suits him. Really hoping we get to see him make a return to the 40K era sometime soon, as I want to see how his journey in the Warp will have changed him.
@@maxgehtdnixan4913 yeah can't fight that logic, you've completely demolished my point, and in such an original way! Now go look up the meaning of the blood angels names from latin and start commenting bloodbloodblood on all their videos, that way no one will ever be able to raise any other points as that's clearly the most important thing!
@@carlosanton6048 Hey, I liked 'em when they were space vikings, but later codexes really went ham on the wolf theme to an unreasonable degree. It's what caused the terrible writing in 30k in the first place. 3rd edition was bearable, everything after just went completely schlock.
Wolfsbane is a really good HH book and a look into Russ and how he's still totally messed up from Prospero and also how the man dumbly sacrafices like 80% of his legion. I think this is more or less the catalist that starts to change the cultrue of themselves.
I personally love the entire history of the wolves, and like you, I myself despise the 30K rendition of them but I also love the evolutionary progression they show in 40K. All in all, my space wolves are always going to be a personal favorite for many reasons, but also, a great window of wisdom to remember that even the worse can change if given enough time
If you haven’t heard it yet, listen to “the parting of the ways” audio drama. It’s about Bjorn the fellhanded’s transition to great wolf, dreadnought, and Russ’ departure, but also kinda speaks about the change of the legion after prospero, and most importantly, leman. It’s not much, but it’s a little insight. I’m a huge fan of space wolves but I get it, they were monsters in 30k.
This is why I like the Space Wolves. They start out as possibly the most disliked out of all the legions. Their status as one of the trefoil legions, problems with their gene seed, the character of their recruits, the way that they fought and the general distain they had for the baseline humans they fought alongside. This was on top of their job as the legion who were used to keep other legions in line and having Russ as their primarch. Fast forward to 40K and they're generally viewed as one of the chapters that are the most sympathetic to the general population of the Imperium. Their 'redemption' is a lot longer and more painful than some of the loyalist legions which were pretty much just boils down to 'and then their primarch was found'.
@@szymonkalinski3014 Yet he cant understand that in 30k psykers were forbidden, if not the wolves someone else would do the same thing, imagine sisters and custodes dropping in, the world would be fucked beyond comprehension.
The wolf story arc of being a brash young group that make stupid decisions that’s tempered by age and experience is there story arc that happens with Bloodclaw‘s going to gray hunters going to long fangs and it’s it’s the story of the legions as well. They made horrible mistakes and 30 K and overtime they were tempered.
0:26 "Tasteful death threat or two" Idk why that made me laugh so hard bro, the just casual way you mention it has this "NO FUCKS GIVEN" Vibe and I love it.
Some of the first warhammer fiction I read was the original Space Wolves trilogy, but as I delved deeper into 30k lore and such I was flabbergasted how completely different their portrayl was.
Also, the entire changing of the legion started with Leman, they were even more feral before he joined and it was his desire for the legion to change from their 30k versions. His arc was always going towards a wiser and introspective character. But my fears are now that the Lion came back the same way Russ may not be able to do so to not have redundant characters.
Thing is with the Space Wolves doing an about face on mutants, they were *their* mutants. And on protecting civilians at Armageddon and the Great Shame, I think it was probably not the Grey Knights being humble, I think it was in reference to Prospero and the shame felt there which caused the Wolves to stand up to try to make amends
i think it's a bit of both here. It's like the jock who bullied the nerd and found out laterwhen they matured and leveled out that what they did was super messed up and wrong; and tries to fix it by standing up to bullies in the future. I have a sucessor chapter of space wolves known as The Hellhounds; founded in the 21st founding and were made with a splice of space wolf and salamanders. They have a ashen grey skin and burning orange eyes, and their hair is the color of smoke and fire; and their blood even boils and glows a firey orange color like molten steel. The Hellhounds are known to save as many civillians as possible and take on more than their share of aspirants and auxilury forces into their ranks; while their chapter is only 1,000 marines, they have a small army of over 500,000 aspiriants, and auxilury forces backing them up.
@@dungeonlessdm6914 How do you mean you have chapter of space wolves? Have you used some warp fuckery to tp to WH universe, mantled the Emperor, cured the SW furry problem and created a physic defying mutant chapter? That's impressive.
The grey knights definitely did not agree with the months of shame. They were following orders from the inquisition. A small group of grey knights even discussed killing the lord inquisitor while it was escalating out of control.
Space wolves: we will never accept primaris marines! One prime boi: yall are jerks. I'm gonna run into the woods for a few months. Bye. Space wolves: *wiping tears from eye * my boy!
Considering Russ actually had a spear, having him return as a badass space Odin would be very on point (hell, the spear's actual name is Gungir, very similar to Odin's spear, Gungnir). It would also be a symbol of character growth in and of itself, since he hated the spear in 30k. And besides, it would also fit with the loyalist primarchs' weaponry, since it is a weapon of The Emperor.
The problem is that he still does it. Compounded with the rest of hypocrisy and Russ's history of being a jackass, it feels superficial. "I'm actually super deep and conflicted, but BRB gotta go obliterate Magnus's whole homeworld, ill actually question my orders later and take no accountability for how I caused this whole situation in the first place." is how it comes off to people. By the time he comes around, people have already mentally clocked out and don't want to read more Space Wolves content anymore.
The reason they got better was because of Prospero. Leman realized it was wrong and tried to reshape his legion to not be mindlessly loyal dogs that'll commit genocide because Big E said so. That's why he left Bjorn in charge, he knew Bjorn would succeed in reshaping the chapter in his absence
I agree that the Heresy wolves are trash, but I'll argue the reason isn't because Russ is gone. The wolves are suffering from GW wanting to write the fall of Magnus and the Thousand Sons a tragedy. The wolves have to do horrible things because they are the antagonists of the TS story, but because they are still loyalist, GW has to make them look like heroes. So you get the narrative dissonance that Wes was talking about. Now that the Wolves are free from being antagonists in a very specific story they can be better, hence why the wolves of 40k have better stories and hopefully when Russ returns he'll get a similar treatment.
@@forcefulstorm6187 just look at our history and ponder which has been more like us when armies go to war: valiantly protecting the innocent at all costs (40k example), or butchering civilians in the name of any suitable excuse (30k example). Sadly it’s the latter.
I think you judge Russ too harshly. One of the defining features of him is he is the most human of all the primarchs. He was really big on fraternity and loved all of his brothers, including Magnus. He didn’t blindly accept Horus’ orders. He wanted to try and talk to Magnus first. Magnus stupidly decided it was sad boi hours and shut communications off not only to Russ, but his children as well. Left with no other course of action they heeded Horus’ orders, knowing this was the third time they’ve had to destroy a legion.
I definitely prefer the 40K version of the Space Wolves over the 30K version. Even the Primaris Marines of the Wolves line that appear in the unnumbered sons, like Biarne in the first Dark Imperium book who was in the unnumbered sons with Captain Felix, he's so fiercely loyal to his Primaris brothers, whether they're Blood Angels, Ultramarines or Imperial Fists.
26:50 "...he then does something that is unthinkable for a Space Wolf. He apologises." Very selective memory about the 30k Wolves right there. "I recognise my failing and will seek to correct it." (Paraphrasing) is a quote repeatedly used by the Wolves in 30k. Plus Magnus had his chance to defend himself and decided to lie before the council of Nikea and the Emperor. He had the chance to surrender himself before the invasion and he didn't, so all those dead civilians on Prospero are on his hands, not the Wolves. Big difference is: Wolves did what they were told, Magnus didn't.
It could be argued them defending the Wulfen is another example of their hypocrisy, condeming other mutants except their own. But anyway, some Space Wolves books I reccomend are: Lukas the Trickster, a humorous character focussed story with some deep analysis on the purpose of a Space Marine and their relationship with normal humans (as in why they should protect them, and if Space Marines should think themselves more important than they are). Ashes of Prospero, has the wolves return to Prospero in current day and has them come to terms of what they did back during the Heresy. Wolfsbane, a 30k story with Leman Russ yes, but I also see it as the point the Wolves started making a turn for the better as Leman shows great character development and regret on his actions on Prospero and indeed has him reconsidering his role in the Imperium.
Awful book imo. Didn't make sense. Why were the wolves so angry at the Tsons? Russ felt shame. Why was Grimnar such a headstrong idiot? How could one rune priest out magic the entire Tsons legion? So dumb
I wonder what will be interaction between Space Wolves and Leagues of Votann. I mean (space) vikings and (space) dwarves - there should be drinking competition!
It would be fun to see Russ come back all mature and sage.......but I also would want that moment where he just goes off and we see the full unfettered violence of the 30K wolves.......just pointed in the right direction this time.
Dude, in the Ragnar Blackmane trilogy , there is a part of book, where wolf lord Ragnar talks down wulfen possessed marine (maybe even physically changing him back).
I liked the Space Wolves in the book The Burning of Prospero. The Rune Priest in it was self aware, fully knowing he was a psyker, and he'd come to terms with that. He just claimed he knew where the line he couldn't cross was.
The wolves of Fenris are a solid chapter, and I’d like to think that the growth from the heresy to current time shows the growth of the chapter. Still my second if not third favorite chapter. Keep up the awesome work!
I can imagine that the self reflection happened after the burning of prospero, and the lose of Russ. I feel the wolves need something that can give their insight
The 30k Wolves argument wasn't against the use of psykers, it was against unrestricted and unmediated use of the warp. The Thousand Sons generally doing anything they could, just because they could, without any form of restraint, is what they were arguing against. They were making a "They are focused on whether they can do something. They never stop to ask if they should do something" argument. They weren't hypocrites, what they referred to as "sorcery" was behavior that they never participated in. In the end, Magnus proved Leman right... Magnus's hubris and lack of respect for the warp ended up ruining everything
They are pretty Viking , their armor though full with like wolf fur and teeth is more Ike Viking and Shaka style . The only thing that makes them wolf like is their gene. I remember a quote. That leman Russ is a human pretending to be a monster and that the lion is a monster pretending to be a human or something like that
Not controversial in any way shape or form among anyone, literally only gw needs to get their heads out their ass and listen to the people. the most common and agreed take ever in 40k
WORST PRIMARCH?!?!?!? HERESY! I just hope when Leman comes back (hopefully soon) he is in a similar position as The Lion was and is very repentant for the mistakes he made in the past.
He already was pretty much through out the heresy. Since and durning the burning of prospero he had begun to regret how he approached things. After failing to deliver the killing blow to Horus he had almost given up and resigned to die. And once he eventually got to Terra after the heresy finished… he was devastated and regretted his decisions. He already had his old man Lion moment and it was durning the heresy. I’m hoping for the opposite. I want the “brash”, big bro kick your ass Russ. Which would indicate that he got over what happened and hasn’t been wallowing in self pity for 10 thousand years.
@@Historyfrek4everI disagree lorgar was just not meant as a warrior he could have turned the peoples he converted into a bunch of alah huakbar moron like in 40k but he wanted to make little paradise instead. Hell him and guiliman are pretty much the real mvp as they are the ones that pretty much allow the emperium to survive until 40k Thanks to the divino levitatus.
@@dumbidea1007 As a person, as a speaker and propagandist he was par excellence. The man effectively caused the heresy and corruption of his brother’s so yes technically he was the most successful primarch even if he got instructions from the chaos gods. Great character, but a massive massive piece of shit.
Actually makes me hate them more. Sure, they were on the right side. But they had PURE Gary Stu energy about it. They just win, and don't suffer any real consequences for it at all. None. Grimnar insta-wins against a Grey Knights grandmaster? Before the guy can draw his blades? Come on.
@@BenHyle Well, they lost thousands of Astartes and many ships. But for Grimnar, he is the LOGAN GRIMNAR after all, the other was just a chapter master.
Not even a space wolves fan but.. Oh noez someone killed a GREY KNIGHT!! As if Logan is not one of the Imperiums greatest legends himself. Grey knights are beasts but not immortal
I only remember the 30k Space Wolves from a short story, in which a small platoon of them helped a planet rebel against dark eldar. It was a really great story.
I highly recommend “Ashes of Prospero” where Njal Stormcaller travels to Prospero to save the 13th Great company from that portal thing they went into, as it is timey-wimey 13th is still around. Obviously it contains a clash of old and new, but also he is being guided to them by a spirit of a dead thousand sons’ sorcerer from heresy.
One suggestion I would give you Wes for reading is Leman Russ's primarch novel. It shows him as more of a character than just king murder hobo. Also the Space Wolves audio collection from Audible is great. Especially the short story called parting of the ways. I will admit as a Space Wolves fan that GW has not handled their writing the best. Even in the Months of Shame story there are some shaky bits. Their Dawnfire novel was garbo too. I don't care what anyone else says it was shitty. However there are other good stories.
The entire story of Space Wolves is about growth. In 30k they were in many ways quite horrible people and Leman at the start had many flaws, but the big part of why I love Wolves and Russ more so than any other legion is their growth and journey. You see how regret over killing Magnus slowly eats away at Russ, how he is conflicted about his role and slowly grows to not only fix mistakes he has made, but also save his legion from destroying itself because of their practices. More so than anyone Russ genuinely changes and grows which can be seen to great extent in Wolfsbane or his Primarch novel which takes place both before and after the Heresy where both versions of the character are like 2 completely different people. But sadly... in this fanbase you are pretty much hated for just saying you like Space Wolves. Some people will be cool with it as long as you admit they are awful and you acknowledge they are awful because if you don't, you are a moron and a fanboy. I genuinely hate this fanbase at some points because being a Space Wolf fan and Leman Russ fan is damn miserable because of people like those who don't give a single shit about their lore and will treat people who do like them like they are worse kind of people.
Space Wolves brought me into the fandom, they'll always be my home chapter and the first army I built to "completion". You don't stand alone, brother! For Russ and the Allfather!
@@RavenAdventwings Look at the 40k subreddits for instance. You will see lots of people there hating on Wolves. Some people will go as far as to say Khan agreeing on something with Russ is "character assassination" and that Russ depiction from Prospero Burns is not canon and if you consider that book canon you are a moron and a fanboy. And on RU-vid it's bad too with lots of people who only know memes and read like "A Thousand Sons" and think this is entire character of Space Wolves. The worst part is that those youtubers who also share this "Russ and Wolves bad" mentality are also some of the most popular like Wes here or Majorkill. It's tiring because this only makes the haters all the stronger while me and many other Wolf fans feel miserable as large part of the fanbase seems to hate us.
If it helps, the Wolves hstarted to have a turning point in their character during the Horus Heresy, pretty early on and just after the Burning of Prospero. It was around when the novel Scars was set. Leman's fleet and legion were wounded and being harried by the Alpha Legion. He called on the White Scars for help, and Jhagathai sent back a message that read in-between the lines as "I just heard about Prospero, so...I think you might be Traitor. Good luck with the Alphas!" It made Leman have to take a good, long look in the mirror about acting as the ravening barbarian and the Emperor's executioner, and how it made his legion look and the condequences there.
All the reasons why you hate the Wolves are the reasons why I love them. It's not that they changed, they're just literally loyal as dogs and follow out their orders no matter what whether that order is "Protect" or "Kill".
I want fuckoffhuge Werewolf Russ to be the one to return, and I want him to have Isha... I mean Tree of Life under his arm. It would be poetic to have IoM forced to accept a mutant as a still loyal son of their god. And Wolves suddenly having a change of hearts and protecting their werewolf brothers would have a nice reason to occur.
My introduction to Warhammer was a Space Wolf book I read over a decade ago that I at the time loved, but somehow I’m now walking the line between Plague Marine and Thousand Son😅
I only recently got into the tabletop aspect of The Hobby. My main love is nids, and my second was going to be Tau. However I've been reconsidering making my second army Thousand Sons. There lore is super cool, and they worship my favorite ruinous power. No idea how they function on the tabletop, but I mostly play as an extension of the lore.
@@jackfordansk4262 my guild mates on Warhammer Tacticus just convinced me to give tabletop a try. Was nervous about painting due to having my dominant hand amputated, but they gave me a ton of tricks and hacks. I love the Mortarion model, but army wise more than likely going Thousand Sons also. And yes, it’s the lore that’s trapped us all lol. They say it also saves money 3D printing.
@@champcpr Yeah, if you've got the money for a 3d printer, it's the way to go. I intend to get one at some point. I have a little adversity painting. Nowhere near to the same extent as yourself, but I just naturally have Shakey hands. But as long as your coats are thin, there's plenty of room for touch ups.
Love your videos man. Helped me get into the 40k universe and all its greatness. 4 books, 3 video games, and a blood angel army built and I'm loving it all. Keep up the good work.
I enjoyed the Blood of Asaheim series and seeing interactions the Sisters of Battle and later the Ecclesiarchy have with the Space Wolves and their history. Also liked The Wolftime from the Dawn of Fire series and how the Space Wolves dealt with the return of Guilliman.
I dunno. Wouldn't inquisition just muster a whole ass armada and exterminatus the shit out of Fenris afterwards? Like Wes said, it's the question of authority.
The thousand sons despite being cautious and methodical were using Sorcery as stated in the proposal at the council to only use the librarius discipline as it would be later on called. Magnus was also keeping it a secret that him and a few more of his legion were in contact with otherworldly forces which led to their downfall like the use of their familiars aside from Magnus talking to Tzeentch.
In Russ's defense, why wouldnt he have believed Horus at that point in time? People like to say he just did it because he wanted to, but Russ was the furst primarch found after Horus, and everyone loved Horus, why would Russ doubt the man who is basically his big brother? And in Prosphero Burns we do see Russ tried to talk to Magnus through what he believed was a psychicly linked spy, and he said he wanted to show him mercy, to not have to be the executioner.
The thing that’s interesting about the Wolves is that in a lot of SM chapters like the Grey Knights the lore is like “they’re so pure and free of taint that they can’t be corrupted by Chaos”. While the Wolves are the opposite in that they’re so tainted with a relatively benign, non-Chaos taint (the curse of the Wulfen) that they are nigh-impervious if not completely impervious to Chaos taint. and are loyal to the end. They’re so heretical that they loop back around to being loyalists. It’s like a vaccine, where being exposed to a little bit of virus protects you from a lot of virus.
To be fair, I get the impression that leman russ and the wolves did not hate magnus and the thousand sons purely because they were psykers, he hated them because he believed they were using warp sorcery, and in fact they TOTALLY were. Theres a stark difference between the elemental power used by the runepriests , and the unrestrained sorcery that the thousand sons were getting into, I mean they literally had daemon familiars (tutelaries) following them around all the time pre-heresy. I think prospero burns really changed my outlook on the space wolves, I always just thought they were viking meatheads and that russ was a narcissistic asshole, but after reading that book, they are definitely more complex, and it seems to me russ is putting on an act as the "barbarian king", there's alot more going on with him than most give him credit for. Also, nobody ever mentions that russ basically begged Magnus to surrender before the battle of prospero, but the message never got through.
Yeah what sold me as a kid when I first saw Space Wolves were "oooh space vikings!". Then I read about Logan Grimnar and how most of them give the middle finger to the inquisition 😂. How it felt so human despite them being turned into space marines ^^
Always loved the story about the SW defending the survivors of Armageddon, so based. Glad to hear they're cool with their Primaris too. Maybe Russ could come back a douche and The Lion could help him adapt and grow, and help heal the wound between the chapters, would make for a cool novel.
I could see Russ returning and still being bloodthirsty as ever leading to some interesting drama for the Wolves, It could even lead to a schism in opposition to what the Lion is doing by reuniting his sons
I always think back to Bricky when I hear Space wolfs. "Are you looking for Vikings in space? Congratulations you've found Vikings in space" Love 40k wolfs
The 40k Wolves have developed the way they are, *because* of the mistakes they made during the Heresy and 30k. They learned that while loyalty is the most important thing, where you place that loyalty and what you do for it matters far more. It's why they are now so self sacrificing. Why they protect civvies like the Salamanders. Why they could give two flying chaos warp farts about what the Inquisition thinks and says. They are upholding their father's will, and the will of the Emperor. *Humanity* itself comes first. They are his sword to destroy threats and the most loyal sword at that, but they are also a shield to protect his children. They *had* to be meh and so one dimensional in 30k, so they could learn, grow and become the Wolves we love in 40k. That's good writing. That's depth.
Magnus should have just said. "We're not using psychic powers, we're just channeling the world spirit of Prospero!" While sticking a big red middle finger in Othere Wyrdmake's face.
All right, that one got me. Don't worry, it's the world spirit of prospero. My favorite thing is like hey your channeling fenriss or whatever but then why do I see you in the warp? Like you do know it's the same thing right?
"Laws are made for thee, but not for me, " said every nobleman, bishop, merchant-baron, corporation, and politician ever. You want hypocrisy, there it is in truckloads. "If a crime results in a fine, it is only a crime for those without wealth." And everyone one of those wealthy ones ever born has been an archcriminal. Look for yourself. As for Russ, I think we're good. If TTS is anything to reckon by (and it *is,* Alfabusa is a massive and clever lore-nerd) the Ulf-King has spent the last several millenia in the Warp chopping on monsters, distilling whiskey out of demon guts, and ruminating on his failures. He's got a *beard!* And it's gray! He also hates his life. So yeah, I think he's grown up a bit.
Russ had his growth arc during the Horus Heresy and left Fenris on his vision quest as a changed character. The VI Legion started their time in the Great Crusade late and nicknamed the 'Rout' because they were monsters who were more than happy to slaughter civilians who got in the way of them killing their targets. Russ started them on a 'better' path when he was introduced to them and in turn introduced them to Fenris but Russ was still a monster himself, he had grown up on Fenris but he first grew up with Thunderwolves, he still had plenty of monster in him that we see change throughout the Heresy.
Something people also miss about the Space Wolves, is they are the only legion to remain unbroken for 10,000 years. Until Guilliman's return, they had no successors. Russ agreed to let his legion operate under "Great Companies" instead, but that was already how it operated. For them, nothing changed when the legions were broken during the Second Founding. They are a full legion still. Edit: The Space Wolves do indeed suffer from some bad writing, but I try not to hold that against them, since it's something that is more of a writer issue than a faction issue. It's kind of like how the Ultramarines are actually cool, but Matt Ward's books and GW marketing give them a bad rep they kind of don't deserve. Same thing with the Dark Angels; leaving a battle mid fight to chase Fallen is dumb, but the callback to actual inquisitions into British knights is super cool, it just gets handled poorly.
nah, space wolves have two categories for psykers, warp-users and maleficarum. they're explicit about maleficarum being its own category, and for good reason. they differentiate between using warp powers, and *treating with warp entities for power*. they're not the same thing. one is using the raw power of the warp and trying to force it under control, the other is actively collaborating with warp entities, ie, working with chaos. this is why they treat their use as different from that of the thousand sons, because *every single thousand son had their own personal daemon companion that they contracted with for power, their 'tutelary' *. the wolves did not treat with warp powers. the khan did not treat with warp powers. the other legions had put their psykers in the librarius organisation which was inspired by and formed based on... the thousand sons. so they distrusted it, and those in it, because of its source, which was chaos tainted. this is not hypocrisy, this is people not having read, or properly understood, the lore.
The books about Ragnar Blackmane are good and very enjoyable to read. I personally like Space Wolves their wolf - theme armor and savage combat style and mostly bc they don't give a sh*t about inquisition and they care about civilians ( like Salamanders ). They also drink beer :)
they do sk.. they re the one of the worse . hypocrites.. the only worse legion might be Dark Angels and i do hope L.R. is not the next primarch who returns . Vulkan will be nice to come back to fix the throne .. or the Khan that will also be amazing
From what we have seen of how GW releases primarchs, it seams that they are revealing the ones with the most profitable factions. And the major selling factions of space marines left within the Imperium are Space Wolves and Blood Angels, so Russ has the biggest chance of being the next revealed primarch, much like his Fulgrim is likely going to be the next revealed primarch for chaos
As for the wulfen, the Wolves stood up for them for several reasons. One they are legends from their past who stood by and fought at the side of their primarch who they revere. And 2. They are a depleted, stretched and haggard chapter who can’t afford to throw away brothers
Honestly, I expect a sort of opposite to Lion El'Johnson. Lion is worried that his current sons will be upset that he's forgiven The Fallen and is willing to be more temperate. I wouldn't be surprised that if/when Russ shows back up, he expects his sons to be exactly like they were in 30k and is upset that they're more reserved and thoughtful then he remembers (By comparison obviously, they're still Space Wolves). In essence, both Primarchs are going to be disappointed with their sons but as readers we'll know that the Dark Angels are "Miss-guided" and Russ is too aggressive and unbending for the current age.
One beautiful ongoing theme within the 40k novels is that each book is told from a certain view point and drives home a narrow narrative to the reader. The reader is not presented facts but rather a mix of facts and opinions. So the Space Wolves massacre of civilians can be seen as a glorious act of the emperor's justice.
My introduction to the Space Wolves was: GM telling me: so you like melee. Your options are Ultramarines, which nobody likes. Space Wolves, which are furries or Blood Angels, which are cool. I have since learned more about Space Wolves, and they are my fav chapter. :) I havent read nearly enough about them, but they stand out to me, and seem awesome.
Space Wolves are AMAZING in the Heresy era. The book Wolfsbane shows them in a great light with humour, comradeship. Lore shows how their Rune Priests are different because of the culture of Fenris. I'm not a Space Wolves person, but they are brilliant in the heresy and 40k! And, in the Emperors Gift novel shows the humanity massively. They are, by a long way, one of if not the most loyal of legions! Great Primarch, Great Legion!
I lost it at the camping joke XD I came into the video a little disturbed about the slander my Star Dogs were getting but I love your commentary so I reserved myself. Allowing said joke to make me spill my drink on the floor. You're awesome, brother!
You kind of hit the nail on the head. Think you've responded about to me about this comment in the past, that based off us Corax, it's possible Russ comes back as a werewolf-like primarch, I hope he doesn't. The best it could be is as many have stated, Russ comes back as Odin, because in 30k he is Thor. Black Library would be wise to read a lot of the Marvel comics and see how Thor Odinson becomes Thor All-Father (though technically The Emperor is the All-Father in Warhammer 40k).
I'm definitely a fan of the Wolves and wait for the return of Russ. After Lion El'Johnson's return and seeing how he has changed. It gives me hope that Russ will be a greater figure for the Space Wolves.
The Dark Angels calling the Space Wolves Heretics because of the Wolfen was one of the most hilerious moments ever. I hope that the Lion just bitchslaps all of the Inner Circle for Weeks. The Wolves are soooooo many Levels above the Dark Angels, at least in 40k.
I feel like the entire point of Warhammer, especially Horus Heresy, is that the protagonists are not heroes. That’s why it’s so different because it frames them as heroes even when they’re committing atrocities. I think a lot of people aren’t looking at it like this. The wolves are not good guys. Not now and not then.
You have to remember, lemun russ was loyal to the emperor to a literal fault. The other legions called him the emperor's attack dog and because of his loyalty he took it in stride. He never EVER questioned any order given by the emperor. It was after Prospero that russ had a moment of self reflection
