I miss michael winner and Charles Bronson as a young teen I loved these films. Winner new his craft and knew what his audience wanted. Now as a 45 year old I have never harmed anyone and these films have not left me morally bankrupt. RIP Mr winner and Mr Bronson
Speaking of unresolved personal past traumas...Gregory Peck's son committed suicide and yet he still agreed to play the part of a man having to kill his own son in the 1976 horror classic The Omen.
@@ninfilms -His first book on essays are very good. he was one of the better ones. There are those that do, and those who are critics. The critics pissed all over Dirty Harry too, and Wild Bunch ,those are both terrific. I like this film...Most of Charles Bronson movies are Taking The Trash Out and he does it as well as anyone.
This comment lacks style, charm, and originality. While it seems to attempt to say something meaningful, it ultimately falls flat on it's face. I'm going to have to give this comment a thumbs down.
I think her comment at the end just kind of showed her real issue with the film, a man making a film in which someone gets raped. That was what she had a problem with. So yeah it was just an ideological feminist thing
The entire saga was masterful, even 5. I've always had a fascination with the incredibly biased and uncharitable critical reception to all 5 of the films, and I was pleasantly surprised to see this video recommended to me.
"thought-policing" lol. Sure, if the only thoughts you have are the things you see on a TV screen. This movie sucked and was exploitative garbage, get over it.
@@plasticweapon Me a fem? lol, get real. The problem I have with this film isn't its depiction of violence towards a female but its depiction of guys at the bottom of society being gang-r*****s. Ager is the real male fem, because he likes this false narrative.
That part where the borderline goes off on a sodomy tangent from nowhere and then wishes it on Michael Winner is more shocking and manipulative than anything in Death Wish 2.
I love Death Wish II, i always have. Its a dark violent film in sunny los angeles 'the city of angels' showing the seamier side of the city....it is a great thriller.
Death Wish 2 is the best vigilante movie ever made with the Robert Forster as avenger in Vilgilante (1984) coming a distant second. I saw this when it first came out and for me this was, the then, one of the many super heroes films. I don't mean those with special powers like in Marvel or DC who mostly get the shit kicked out of them only for them to win near the end, I mean the individuals played by Bronson, Eastwood, Stallone who pointed there guns at the criminals and pulled the trigger to great cheers in the cinema. These modern day urban police/Vigilante killfests carried on the traditional quip and kill started by James Bond in Connery, perfected by Sergio Leone and many of his protégé in the Spaghetti Western era, eg being, George Hilton as bounty hunter Lord in The Moment to Kill (1968) after he shoots "everyone's entitled to make a mistake...pity yours was fatal". The avenger as Bronson can be tracked from his appearance in Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West (1968) as the silent gunman and his long search for vengeance. All the Death Wish films are an extention of this Bronson/Avenger role (not the character) each film changing in overall scope. In Death Wish he is a normal man who gets revenge, if not indirectly, becoming the people's heroe. Death Wish 2 on the other hand has him identify his prey which he guns down with extreme prejudice and without blinking an eye. In Death Wish 3, which I love, is pure mid 80s relish with the other sequels just straight to video fodder, but because it's Charlie, you must watch them. Mr. Majestic, The Mechanic, Murphy's Law and a few other Bronson vehicles always had some element of revenge in the storyline.
This was a great video, largely because it's a topic that doesn't seem to get that much attention or at least not as much as it should. Also, I never understood why critics originally hated films like: A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Sergio Leone's Dollars trilogy e.t.c. and then after the films got large cult followings all-of-a-sudden "oops, we were wrong they're actually pretty good." But for some reason they still seem to hate Death Wish 2. It's probably because they haven't found a way to fit that film into their pseudo-Liberal, pro "everything is relative, man" agenda.
Cultural tastes can change though over time. Sam Raimi's Evil Dead movies didn't become cult classics until about 10 to 15 years after they were made when the next generation became old enough to watch them. There are lot's of movies I didn't like 10 years ago, but love today, and movies I can't stand anymore that I used to really like. The reviewers back peddling and changing their mind is them just trying to stay hip and relevant.
The Death Wish franchise, imo, was just a gritty, action film. There were plenty of other (awesome) films that could have been viewed more harshly by the critics; but quite often the reviewers/critics didn't really know what they were talking about! Critics hated and banned the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre for being bloody and violent! I don't think they actually watched it in the first place as most of the violence is implied and even then barely any blood was involved! Though I don't agree (or am bothered by it), I could see the critics PoV with Cannibal Holocaust, as some of it could be considered harsh; no "No animals were harmed in the making of this film" sentence was able to be put in the credits.:D
I love how Charles Brosnon's character starts off as a "bleeding heart liberal" and then transforms into a conservative after seeing how the world really is and all the evil within it.
Fantastic video! My nan loved Bronson movies and certainly wasn't offended by them. She just loved an old guy like Bronson killing muggers and rapists. You never heard old people complain about the Death Wish movies because for them they were wish fulfilment films. Ironically, my nan hated movie violence as a concept but she didn't see the irony when I pointed out her adoration of Bronson movies!
I'll admit I didn't appreciate the deeper layers of this film beyond a more violent sequel as I had seen it in my teenage years a very long time ago. It was a positive online review that made me take a second look at it. Thank you for giving this film its due.
Regarding Jill Ireland, it was a cliche at the time for film stars to cast their wives & girlfriends, such as Sondra Locke in Clint Eastwood's movies, Sally Field in Burt Reynolds' pictures and Joanne Woodward in Paul Newman's, so it was a common talking point back then.
The death-wish series have, although in different degrees, all something in common; the incapable way of justice handling crime and criminals and failing in their duty to protect the innocent and uphold the law, because they are bound by the same laws; they also showed that everyone could be a victim of violent crime and that a moment of carelessness(like in the first) can cost you dearly... Of course, the critics focussed on the violence(especially the sexual violent scenes), but Winner dared showing it in all its' awfulness, in the viewers face. The only director with that kind of "courage" was Kubrick, with "A Clockwork Orange", who, strangely enough, was "glorified", despite all the violence in that film by the critics...
I love it. A bunch of Brits from the past complained about a movie. They are the ones who led to London no longer being a British city. The same sentiment has led to decay here in the former colonies. ' you can't be mean to criminals'!
For what it's worth, Roger Ebert gave positive reviews to extremely violent films that were at the time universally panned by critics like "Last House On The Left", "Class Of 1984" & "Scarface".
I thought it was pathetic, and evidence of the interviewer's lopsided views, that he gave Anna the final word. Just a cheap way to get in one last dig, in the safety that it wouldn't be shot down by Winner.
Also, one interest thing is that I'm from Brazil and the age rating of the Death Wish II DVD is 14, you can see it in the cover image I'll post below, that's weird because in Brazil usually films rated PG-13 or some soft R-rated movies are rated 14, and the DVD version is uncut so a film with the violence and sex Death Wish II has would normally be rated 18 in Brazil. http2.mlstatic.com/dvd-lacrado-desejo-de-matar-2-charles-bronson-D_NQ_NP_667901-MLB20422432652_092015-F.jpg
the biggest problem with a death wish sequel is that this time (predictably) bronson finds all the offenders which takes away al the scapegoating of the original. and it lacks the story layers of death wish 1, with no real connection between urban violence & societies ills. despite being the same director again , this seemed....nastier
This is nastier because it amps up the far-right paranoia and discards any semblance of entertainment. I enjoy the entire series but this film always struck me as the most mean spirited and ugly of the lot.
I did not particularly like the film but thought it effective, and the rape scene well acted. (And yes, it did warn me as to what can happen to a woman.) As a paid film critic myself, I would invoke Susan Sontag's warning against naively reacting to a film as if it is happening (and therefore self-righteously attacking the director) when one should commend the director for showing unsanitized violence in its ugly and distasteful reality.
Recently rewatched this (I'm going through the whole series again, including the Bruce Willis reboot which I thought was OK) and...it seems to age like a fine wine. The opening scene does border on exploitation in my honest opinion, but it also serves to make you really despise the gang for what they did, and really understand Kersey's mindset...what if that was your family? How far would you go to make sure justice was done? The soundtrack is absolutely terrific with Shadow In The City and Who's To Blame? being particular highlights and Bronson effortlessly shifting from a mild mannered nice guy architect by day to an emotionless killing machine by night is gripping stuff. Personally, Death Wish 3 is my favourite because I just enjoy the total over the top mayhem it quickly descends into, but Death Wish 2 is still an immensely satisfying movie and excellent sequel.
I watched Death Wish 2 because of your recommendation, I would have overlooked it otherwise. The negative tone of the interview could have been used to Michael Winner's advantage, were it broadcast today. He comes off better than the others who resort to strawmans. I lost quite a bit of respect for ms Raeburn, who was a pretty decent agony aunt on Talk Radio UK in the mid to late 90s. The decision to bring her up as a guest is as low as it gets.
Ballowax 2002 - it has a broken voting percentage system (there is a average rating but nobody looks at that) working on wether the review can be rounded off & fall into the good/bad opinion. Or doesn’t decode a reviews about that the film is passable or so bad its good watachable+ vs reviews that are actually receiving well & even the best of the year+ both will count to making it to 100%. As well as courting the numbers to a bias due to how unbelievably dependent the country is on how good the movie actually is. Bad Controversies like the freak out over Dark Knight Rises losing 100% or the deleted reviews on Captain Marvel. Just go with IMDB
Death Wish (original) was well written, greatly acted and brilliantly shot. The film is sad, political, funny, infuriating, exciting and caused dialogue. Death Wish 2 was just an exploitation film where the Death Wish fans where the most exploited.
It's all a bit silly though--which is in stark contrast to the realism of the first film--why does every woman Kirzy is related to wind up getting raped and/or murdered by a multi-ethnic gang of youths? One almost expects Bronson to turn to the camera, shrug, and say, "Here we go again." Any political argument the director tries to make is undercut by the absurdity of the proceedings, as well as the fact that the messages are delivered with the subtly of a bulldozer.
Someone actually mentioned this to Winner, who replied to a query regarding the double raping of Kersey's daughter by saying "Perhaps the poor girls accident prone" Also the entire movie is "absurd", it's "absurd" within reason, death wish 3 and up... no
Just finished watching Death Wish for the first time and was glancing at reviews for Death Wish II when I vaguely remembered you made a video about this movie Rob. Just finished watching this and I'm very excited to watch the film now. I enjoyed the first one.
Boy Agar I thought I was the only 70's vigalante film apologist..hahaha. Well done, although I think Rolling Thunder and The Exterminator are also fab!
Excellent , you took apart all the critics arguments one by one , I wonder if Anna really believes in what she was saying or as Michael aptly put it we all have to earn bucks same as you or you wouldn't be here !
You then had a lot of vigilante film critics trying to destroy Bonnie and Clyde in 1967. Roger Ebert had praised the film with a four star rating though.
people were upset that the rape scenes were so violent and shocking. what do they want artistic romantic rape scenes? i think traumatizing rape scenes are what the point is, its ugly and terrible and now you understand why this guy is going out killing people. its not for jaywalking. but also, why are we arguing with a 40 year old review. but at the end of the day it is what i have seen my whole life. liberals not conservatives, trying to tell everyone how to live their life.
Two questions I have for this maybe someone can help me with. First, Did Charles Bronson hate how strong the rape scene was in this film? I read somewhere that he had an argument with Michael Winner on that so I just wondering. Secondly, I've always wondered why this film had two cinematographers. It's said in this video that Thomas Del Ruth left the project when he clashed with Michael Winner over how violent and disturbing he was making the film and he was replaced with Richard H. Kline. My question is, was Thomas Del Ruth the one who filmed that rape scene and left after that and the rest of the film shot by Kline? I've read a few things on that and I don't know which is true and what's fiction. Kudos to the one who did film that rape scene, I don't know how they could keep their cool with all of that going on.
Yes to both. Paul Talbot confirmed them both in his book Bronson's Loose (highly recommended!) and in his excellent commentary to the new Death Wish 2 uncut blu ray. The second is not 100% confirmed, but it's pretty much guaranteed he did indeed leave due to the rape scene. Again, refer to Talbot's Blu ray commentary).
According to longtime Bronson collaborator Lee Thompson, Bronson wasn’t enthusiastic about most of the films he made with Cannon, but kept doing them because Cannon paid him a lot more than he’d get anywhere else.
It's interesting that we've come full circle and now attack people as misogynistic monsters if they don't love a film like what's happening with Annihilation.
Is there an actual uncut version on dvd or blu ray this version has eluded me since i had the vhs in the 80s seems the uncut version has disappeared??!!
Not seen this film in years, but the whole idea of a decent man taking revenge on the dregs of the world appeals to everyone. I didn't know it was met with such shabby reviews. Smacks of an agenda against either the actors or director, or maybe the film company. Maybe that's because the last thing they want is vigilantes taking *justified* retribution on people who partake in subhuman behaviour.
I have seen all the Death Wish movies recently twice. And Death Wish 2 is the best. Paul Kersey just goes after the men who raped his housekeeper, and caused the death of his daughter. He does not kill anyone else. Deathwish 3 was just over top, and Deathwish 4 was a gang drug war movie
Death Wish 2 is my favourite of all of them. One detail I always loved is Bronson’s beanie hat that he buys from the thrift shop. As a professional musician, I didn’t care too much for the soundtrack (except for the funkier tracks). While the uncut rape scenes are unpleasant, it does make it all the more satisfying when Bronson executes the rapists. I enjoyed Death Wish 1 too but number 2 will always be my favourite.
I've been reading DEATH SENTENCE which was the follow-up to the DEATH WISH novel, also by Brian Garfield. Luckily, there's no rape scenes (in the DW novel, Carol was simply beaten into a catatonic state), it's just Paul carrying on killing thugs and muggers and then another vigilante goes on the loose. I like it so far. Bronson and Winner should have done this instead.
@@SpicyTexan64 No, but I have to remind you that when Charles Bronson was first offered the DW2 screenplay, he was appalled that it featured yet another rape scene. I've seen the subject of rape handled in many shows and films but in this case, I empathize with Bronson's view. Besides, the first DW had handled the subject in a very forthright and realistic way.
It was even called a rape and revenge movie in the 80s, so wtf is they talkin about lol. And the cinematography was great in it, so the comment that it was bad made is just to make too make michael to look bad.
@18.30 or thereabouts, after the barrage of bad reviews and questioned why bother making DW2 I think it's well on-point that Winner says that 'the world now is a different place'. Between both films (74 and 82) this was for sure the case. One point further is that when you look at the British film industry itself in that period, it was very much governed by old men attempting to understand culture that no longer applied to them. In the US however, young directors were encouraged - their films followed the culture in perfect synchronicity (The Warriors, The Wanderers, etc). The fact that Mary Whitehouse was a film and culture critic that was actually listened to but was basically an OAP speaks volumes. It took until the late 80's for this to start changing, the BBC was looking as old as it actually was compared to the younger in spirit ITV. The reviews by staunchly 'old school' British newspapers were no doubt approaching old age themselves, and we all know that true-to-form attitude of old people... "I'm too old to have sex, so I'm going to make sure no one else can!"
Deathwish 3 is the masterpiece of this series imo - glorious fierce genre-piece from start to finish! (although completely separate in its ambitions to the first two movies) Michael Winner is an monumental tit, but he really made some excellent, interesting movies!
Been a long trend of avoiding explicit scenes that accurately depict the violence. Argument was that these scenes promoted these acts. Yet, today people just aren't exposed to the brutality ever and seem unaware of why it's a problem in the first place.
Death wish 1 wasn't boring...it's a masterpiece with perfect pacing...🙄 I don't think you know what you're talking about. Re-watch it, I bet you'll understand it more. 2 was good but a little over the top...and shouldn't have been made. I mean how many times can this happen to this man.??? Death wish 2 should have been with a woman as a vigilante. But whatever, it's all subjective.
Regarding the car exploding, I simply think it's a product of its time, and people would find it weird if it didn't happen. It's like the noise of thunder which is always synchronised to the image on the screen, while it's not in real life. There are things which people find even weirder in movies if they follow realistic rules. It's probably too late to change a convention which has been established in thousands movies.
I think you did a great job, the effort you put into this shows and i appreciated it. I agree with you towards the end about violent criminals "enjoying" the violence they do. I've been involved with criminology and use of force under law for many years and i do believe that most criminals treat victim selection as "day at the office". I often recall George Carlin's bit where he asks "why do we rape, why do we kill?" & his answer was the most stark and matter of fact "because we like it", which has always stuck with me.
37:56 "By contrast, the uncredited musician David Sinclair Whitaker provides excellent orchestral music in other scenes." WOW - I never knew that! David Sinclair Whitaker will (no doubt) be responsible for the spine-tingling overture *right* *at* *the* *beginning* *of* *the* *opening* *credits* ... immediately before Jimmy Page's rock guitar kicks in!
I think I watched this video years ago, but I've just found it again. This time I've actually seen the series, finally saw them very recently. So I have context to better understand your points and what's going on in the movie. Though, for whatever reason, I like the 1st movie best out of the whole series, rather than the 2nd. The 2nd was still extremely entertaining and satisfying, of course. I noticed something throughout the series as I was watching that I found interesting. To start with, every love interest in the sequels was blonde like his wife in the first film (except for the 5th one, where the love interest had dark hair). In the 2nd film, he spends time with his daughter as she comes closer and closer to recovering from her trauma and living a normal life once again. His future will be marrying this blonde woman and having his daughter back - until tragedy strikes again. He loses his daughter permanently and the love interest can't accept his vigilantism and the lies that come with that double life. In the 3rd film, the blonde caseworker becomes a love interest until she is killed by the criminal gang. In the 4th installment, his love interest already has a daughter, whom Paul has grown close to over time. She dies from a drug overdose. At the end of the movie, the love interest herself is killed by the main antagonist. In the final entry into the series, his new love interest also has a daughter. The love interest once again dies at the hands of criminals. The daughter, however, survives, and with her real father dead, presumably Paul Kersey will take care of her. All of this to say, it seems that as long as Paul refuses to let go of the past and seeks to recreate what he once had, he is cursed to relive the initial tragedy again and again and again. Yet if he *did* let go of the past and stopped trying to replace his original family, he would lack the motivation to return to vigilantism time and again, and so many deadly criminals and organizations would still be plaguing the cities and poisoning society. His life is a double-edged sword. Whichever way he chooses to go, terrible things happen. But it's certainly better to dispense justice and make the streets safer in the end.
I remember when AMC aired this movie for months at a time back in 2005! The Moment In This Movie That Has Lived With Me From The Very First Time That I Have Seen It Is: Paul Kersey: "So You Believe In Jesus?" Thug:"Yes I Do." Paul Kersey:"Well, You're Gonna Meet Him." Paul Kersey Shoots Him Dead! Oh The Memories!
i am a great fan of DW films..but comparing Death Wish 1 with any others in the series is absurd. DW 2 is an embarassing rape fest.DW 3 is so over-the-top violent that it's humorous..the shave head dude calls fat bikers in from Queens to rape girls and throw grenades? it's like a cartoon.
6:10 "... and even Paul Talbot's book - *Bronson's* *Loose* : *The* *Making* *of* *the* *Death* *Wish* *Films* - mistakenly passes Death Wish Two off as... 'Nothing more than a sleazy, routine remake' ." "RUBBISH ~ it's easily the best of the series *technically* and *artistically* ; and is arguably ' *the* *best* *vigilante* *movie* *ever* *made* '." Bravo Mr AGER BYTES 👏 I would like to additionally suggest *Harry* *Brown* (2009) - starring Sir Michael Caine - as a film deserving of *top* *honors* (in terms of it being a vigilante masterpiece) !
First Writing, Composing, Performing, Producing of Music by Jimmy Page since the disbanding of Led Zeppelin. (Jimmy Page, Death Wish 2 Soundtrack was released on Swan Song Records 15 February 1982)
actually this modern video format with the twist of using clips from the past, humanity never had video in its history long with such ubiquity, perhaps this is no different to when your teacher narrated his perspective of a historical social event. congratulations its epic. i suppose Rob knows this, but i know it too.
@@agerbytes2492 It's on RU-vid: "SEX AND THE CENSORS - C4 - 1991" (starts at 31:11). Full quotation: "I think Death Wish II is a pretty retrograde film, a film which might very well have nasty repercussions sometimes of silly people who go to see it. I think sensible people probably wouldn't even go to see it. Now, the question is: should it be actually censored or should we make such a fuss about it in the newspapers and in the media and with people lobbying that in fact that particular filmmaker doesn't make another film like that again? I think if we were in a really adult democracy, it would be better to do the latter. Better to shout and say this is awful than to actually have it cut. Now, the censor... decided that it ought to be cut and I have every sympathy with him about the film. I wouldn't have cut it, I'd have burnt it. But, on the other hand, I do think freedom is really very, very important. People should be able to see this kind of film; they should be able to judge it for themselves."
I agree with most of the video, but I don’t think the argument on 23:30 is valid. It raises an interesting discussion. Of course the rape scene has to be seen in context, but it is perfectly possible to that a movie incite supposedly opposite responses, at the same time showing the horror of rape an arousing people with a tendency towards violence. In fact, vigilantes are sadistic and cruel people in real life, usually being hired killers that mascaraed their criminal behavior with pseudo moralism. There is also the fact that rape is hailed as a legitimate form of punishment for rapist and child molesters by many, being a very common practice in jail, when obviously is just a way for criminals do what they want to do without being stopped by the jailers. In my country, an extremist politician (that I won’t give publicity by stating his name) that advocate castration and is supposedly harsh on rapists, was convicted with inciting rape encourage he repeatedly said that he would not rape x congresswoman because she was too ugly and didn’t deserve it. So, basically, I thing it a good and entertaining film, that shows a potentially dangerous message, because a character like Bronson in real life would be as dangerous as the criminals he fights. I would also say that the movie offers a caricatured portrayal of those it tries to criticize, but the film critics acted the same way, and ended up losing the chance to criticize the film in an honest and impartial way. You don’t have to agree with the message of a movie to appreciate it as good art and entertainment. Another great analysis.
It really would have been great if when accused of making violence porn simply to make a buck, he leaned ever so slightly forward and offered to make a movie that satisfied their moral standards that will likely lose money and they can be the first to invest in it.
