It's a pleasure to listen to you, no frenetic cuts, no rush, just plain and perfectly explained information. This is basically a free seminar! Thank you Justin!
Justin - I love your channel. I'm about to give away one of my most cherished philosophies when it comes to depth. We need to look at this the same way a painter chooses colors - the palate of colors used in paintings to discern distance. Imagine, a painter paints a scene that involves two "stop" signs. We all know what a stop sign looks like - its shape, its color, etc. But, take note, To make one stop sign appear father away from another, it's much more than just painting one smaller than the other. If we were to use the same bright, intense red color, and sharp edges for the distant stop sign as we used for the one nearest, the eye would not be able to make sense of that depth. Artists know that a more distant red must be assigned on canvas as more of a pinkish-orange - a blunted red. Thus, volume dictates the size of the stop sign. "Color" (EQ and reverb) dictate its distance.
Thanks Justin! The greatest aha moment for me was when I discovered how transients affect depth.. interestingly enough it was at the moment right after I finally understood compression.. amazing how such a little part of a sound can be such a game changer! All the best to ya in the new place!
This was so helpful! Never thought about predelay in front to back depth and probably I'm one of these mixers you would criticize on the issue you've discussed here. Since watching now I'm thinking about these things in moving my current mixes forward.
Bob Power talked about depth in his 2017 Mixcon presentation using those three things. Volume, brightness (or darkness), and ambience. Thanks for adding to this important topic.
Really glad you go into pre-delay properly, I think this is often overlooked and gives a very different quality to the reverb and its 'soundstage.' Excellent stuff as always!
One other thing to consider with depth is actually panning. The further away you want something to sound, the more narrowly it should be panned. And to piggy back off your point about ambience making something sound either closer or further away depending on how it's treated, another step you can take is applying an inverse relationship between the panning of a source and its ambience. So a far away source should be panned narrow, but its ambience wide and diffuse. And a close source panned wide with its ambience narrow and dark.
Right on! I think I might have mentioned something like this in passing, but yes, this is absolutely true. Great observation. Shame on me if I forgot to say this somehow! -Justin
Bob clearmountain's woman in chains by tears for fears is the most depth and space I've ever heard. It's a masterpiece imo! Thanks for all the great info Justin! You rock🤘
Thanks for your video - it was very informative and gave me some good ideas - particularly with my high hats jumping out the mix even with the volumes down real low (reduce the transient and mb a low pass filter). One area I wasn't very clear on was localization (4:16), so I'm gonna do a bit more research on that. Hope you have a great new year!
Awesome video!! When I think of depth I like Bob Rock produced songs like Dr. Feelgood and Enter Sandman. Especially on Feelgood that intro is massive!!
I loved how you described this. The picture you painted (no pun intended) really allowed me to understand how I needed to start looking at things. Awesome video!!
Hi Justin - I just completed your mixing course and I wanted to personally thank you for helping me not only to dramatically improve my mixes, but for helping me to actually understand how to practice the strategies for getting where you want to go with a mix. I've gone through other courses and without even showing me your screen, I learned more from you than any of the other courses. So thank you big time.
I really like how your podcasts are set up, great concepts without declaring hard fast rules. Really good advice backed up by obviously lots of experience. Also really nice to hear somebody rep Steinberg!
I took 3 days off of my day job to mix a few songs from an event I put on earlier this year and then watched this. I’m glad I did it in that order because now everything you are saying makes so much sense. Thanks Justin!
This is all good to know. I've found I love making cinematic, ambient, and orchestral music, with each instrument sent to a convolution reverb. Adjusting the wet of every instrument sent to it really adds a lot of depth, but I'm excited to also experiment more with transients and brightness to see how that deepens the sound. Thanks for the tips.
Great vídeo. I've bien getting into depht for a while, dealing with reverbs and delays. This video give another perspective. Very usefulll. Thanks Justin
Very good thinking exercise...I cant think of any other tips nor techniques for depth & this helped me remember what can be done(studying binaural sound like the virtual haircut & hostage situation audio skits on youtube with headphones & your eyes closed helps). Studying how films masterfully use all these techniques mentioned to push the illusion of depth help too. Something I do to help dull the transients is use a soft clipper as well as use certain types of saturation which help to both dull the transients as well as add harmonics so the sound cuts through the mix a bit more which sounds counter productive but works when you are wanting & now able to lower the volume even more pushing it further back into the mix yet still hearing it cut through enough to be appreciated.
Great video. Alice In Chains' "Dirt" album is one I LOVE the depth on and one of the first that comes to mind. And Slayer's "South of Heaven." You can really hear the planning that went on with those albums' depths.
great information. There's a song by Devin Townend called "Ghost" , which has always baffled me as to how they achieved so much depth and space in a mix. I think you just demystified it . Thank you .
Awesome awesome video. Immediately applied these ideas to a mix I'm working on and I'm really happy with the result. It seemed like a completely different approach to mixing, but maybe it's just better. Who knew!
I also find that panning at less than hard left or right can push sounds further back in the mix, as well as help with separation from other instruments.
YES! I briefly hint at this in the beginning but it's the one thing I wish I went into slightly more depth on. All else being equal, a hard panned sound will generally sound a little closer than one that is not hard panned. -Justin
Love this video. I’ve been on a journey to understand more about depth. That seems to separate the big boys from the amateurs. Manny Marriquon is my favorite mix engineer and that guy just gets it. I wish I knew how he does it.
This is something I really struggle with and am conscious of so thanks so much! It's the thing I just can't seem to figure out, my mixes might sound okay where there's relatively little mud and I can hear the mix clearly but the instruments just don't seem placed well in 3D space, like the vocals might be audible but pushed back, or a guitar solo doesn't jump out in the way I like. I've tried using reverb and delays but am not getting the results I'm after, so I will take all your advice and give it another go! Thanks for all the great content!
One thing I notice that killed depth in my mixes even if I used these great principles was too much processing on my mixbuss. Once you start listening for it you really notice how adding certain plugins can make your mixes sound 2D and flat
Haha, I'm probably one of the few people who talks about mixing who knows who that is too. (I even have one of his instructional videos on grappling...) I don't think I trash talk NEARLY as much as Chael 😂 But he is very articulate and passionate about whatever he is saying so I appreciate the comparison on that level! Thanks for tuning in, Justin
Nice concept. That was a topic no my Mixing Classes, about Haas Effect. Level and panning for first instance them add ambience, mid side processing and a good sustractive eqing. Nice video to always back and take some notes. Suscribed.
Always nice presentations Justin. I recommend trying to do a mix NO efx...just front to back, in mono. The easiest way for me was to understand painting/landscape painting and then using curves in Photoshop...instant help for music in pictures ;-)
Totally. I recommend people start their mixes with nothing but volume, and then pan, before diving in heavily to EQ, compression and other effects. This is a key part of the process of Mixing Breakthroughs course. It definitely works, and makes everything else come together much more easily! Thanks for the comment, Justin
@@SonicScoop thats quite interesting...re pan. I kind of think front to back is eg landscape rules...what i meant was, the picture should stack in mono first, pan is a l>r spatial augment. Anyway...respectfully, I dont have your creds and appreciate your input to the community. Understanding hdr compression visually in eg ps really adds another layer of instant understanding for visual learners like me ie in micro/macro compression match to output medium/style. I encourage you to check it out...firstly as its gorgeous but more as maybe an extra teaching concept that might help others :-) Greetz from Sydney
I already start in the Midistage of my songs to achieve depth by tuning the velocity and volume of each part. I also process right there with EQs for example to keep the balance and avoiding frequency masking. I also often neglect the effects of VSTs like Delay, Reverb or Chorus, because to my mind it doesn't fit often, for example on presets. In some cases it works for me but mostly I have to after process stuff in the mixing stage and as bare logic I turn the effects off.
This is a great discussion and analysis of depth. I most definitely would recommend the plug-in “Dr MS”, it’s absolutely crucial for achieving depth fast in a mix. Truly nothing compatible to this plug-ins capability’s. However, doing it with these considerations mentioned in this video is something everyone needs to practice. Thanks for the great videos man, truly appreciate you :).
You and Bob Power (NYU) are clearly the best guys online teaching depth of field. Thank you, Justin! I've found that super pro orchestral players and really good conductors tend to know how to shape sound intuitively, especially when working with soloists, singers, and choirs that can soooo easily be snuffed out by brass, percussion or general overplaying...
Having the hi-hats too loud was what I always did when I first started producing. I took it back like 10 dbs and then I was like oh woah, now it actually sounds like the songs I listen to
You can watch videos with people banging on stuff, hard or soft, near or far away, much or little bass and/or treble. People in the real world, not just music production, who interact with their realities. We all live in the same reality and the same rules apply whether it's music production or a busy square in a city in a far away country in a video. Watch a spectrum analyzer at the same time to know what the sound of slamming a car door looks like. If you have some kind of spectral editor you can even have a color image over time.
Is depth the "key word" for this moment? Hahaha just kidding, I've been watching also the CLA series about "depth". BTW amazing content as always. Thank you so much, not only for the MHB masterclass but also for every single little pearl that you're sharing with us. Very useful content. Greetings from Italy!
I'm so out of the loop. I literally only saw that new CLA stuff on depth when I went to post this new episode! I recorded it in advance, so it's definitely sheer coincidence. But an interesting one. -Justin
Hi Justin, thanks for another video. I've got your mixing course and your mastering course. I'm wondering about using reverb to send multiple instruments to, to provide a room sound to my mix. Should I use a stereo reverb? I was unsure as to whether that would discount and skew all my panning choices by smearing everything across the stereo image. Should I use separate mono reverb for L C and R? Thanks in advance
Thanks so much! Glad you are enjoying them. Join us for one of the live Q&As for course members sometime! Both stereo and mono reverbs can be good, even if you are hard panning. Either can glue your hard panned elements back into the mix a bit. A mono reverb straight down the center may actually undo your hard panning MORE than a stereo reverb, as a hard panned left signal could have its reverb more heavily tilted to the left side with a stereo reverb. If you want to double down on hard panning, then the thing to do is to use a mono reverb or delay that is ALSO hard panned to the same side. But a common trick is to try the opposite as well: panning a delay or reverb to the opposite side of the hard panned dry track. Each approach can work, and can be better or worse than the others, depending on what you are trying to achieve. But it's good to be aware of each of these 4 approaches and how they sound compared to the others so you can better decide for yourself based on the context. Do some experimenting with each! Hope that helps, Justin
@@SonicScoop thanks for your reply Justin, that all makes a lot of sense. I advise anyone who hasn't bought the mixing course to buy it, I have watched each video many times and not always to recap but sometimes just to get me in the mood for mixing when I'm not feeling inspired.
Justin! are you installing a new studio and NOT making a video about it ?! pleaaaaase :) that's be cool! treatment, how and why. btw DEPTH, I realized, is adjusted in great environnement ( attack walls, verb controlled). People mixing in bouncy, verby rooms with broken center will stuggle I guess. we want to know about your room ! all the best, Sylvain
Yes! Good observations there. If I do build out a full new studio in the house, I'll definitely do some content on it! There's chance I may wait a bit, or go into a commercial space for the studio instead. I was intending my current room here to be very temporary, but I'm settling into it so well that I might stay in it another year before doing a build out. We'll see! There are a few factors to weigh here. -Justin
Definitely! I thought about going into more detail there, but JUST covered this a few weeks back in the podcast: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EF4_N0Ud6c4.html And it's also kind of covered by the "brightness" point, so is maybe a little redundant in this context. You're right that this is a factor though. Thanks! -Justin
@@SonicScoop thanks, I’ll check out the video, it’s the part that many people don’t touch and it can make huge differences with regard to perception of where the instrument appears to be placed in the room, and of course the early reflections, luxury is when you can change the eq of reflections and reverbs separately, but then we are into very advanced manipulation that can quickly go very wrong when you are not aware of what the result of what you change will do to the signal. A good reverb for expert manipulation is the new HOFA v2 reverb, the possibilities for manipulation are very cleverly laid out in the GUI, check it out when you have the time, very impressive and not so well known, their free bundle is also very useful for beginners and people learning. Probably not a surprise as they are actually an engineering remote schooling company. Thanks for the great videos, still learning after 40 years behind a desk! Stay safe, stay healthy. Murray
You wanna really understand depth in mixing audio? instead of searching for mixing tips and tricks videos...instead search for Perception in photography. This two subjects audio and photography they share a lot of the same things when it comes to create depth since believe it or not our brains perceive auditory cues very similar as our eyes... and can be really helpful to visually understand how perception creates contrast and trick our brains. Trust me ive seen a lot of videos about mixing but it wasn't until I stared watching videos about perception (im more a visual learner btw), how our brains perceive things around and all that ...and it clicked to me to noticed how similar the subject it is compared to audio mixing. Things like how our eyes detect more texture , less blurriness, and give more attention to close objects when they get in your face versus far away objects that are totally blurred , tiny with not too much detail texture on them ...ect. Very similar subjects for sure
Good Stuff !! What do you think about Depth through Dimensional sound ? I've heard, some work on a couple of RU-vid Channels before, but they don't seem to get any traction out there 🤔
