Thanks for watching! Here's some awesome bike stuff I like & you might, too. (It also helps support this channel!) 🚲 PRIORITY BICYCLES (belt-drive bikes with hub gears): twowheelsbetter.net/go/priority 🚲 BROMPTON (reigning champ of folding bikes): twowheelsbetter.net/go/brompton ✅ BROOKS B67 (favorite saddle for upright riding): amzn.to/44JFQ2A ✅ BROOKS B17 (favorite saddle for hybrid & touring posture): amzn.to/3DE2nSc
I bought a electric assist bicycle in March 2022 as an alternative means of transportation. My alternate is now my main. I only drive my truck if my wife and I have to go somewhere together or if the weather is not favorable. I also lost 36 pounds in four months.
That is awesome - both re: making the bike your go-to, and re: the steady weight loss! There's something incredibly freeing about being on two wheels, electric or otherwise.
do you live in a city where there is infrastructure for bike riding? If I tried something similar here i'd lose 20 lbs in one day because they'd have to amputate my limbs after the car runs me over.
This video is great. It's upright friendly, unlike videos that assume everyone wants to go as fast as possible, never looking left or right to enjoy the beauty all around you. Thanks for sorting that out. I was focused on efficiency when I was young (20s) and I rode in a racing position. Now I'm 71 and I use my bike to enjoy the natural beauty of greenways, creeks, and wildlife.
Try to ride for longer and longer distance until something hurts. For some things, it is just a matter of getting over the hump. If you have knee pain, it could be that the saddle is too low, of feet not angled the right way on the pedals. Or even uneven leg length. Back pain could mean seat is too high. If pedaling makes your upper body rock from side to side, it is too high. Make a mark with tape or similar once the perfect position have been found. Or write diwn the measurements. Sometimes a seat will slide down over time or after a bump, and you wont norice until your kneesstart hurting. Once that problem is fixed, you will eventually ride long enough for something else to hurt. Hands, wrist, feet, butt, back. Wearing gloves is a must. Some have a bit of padding to help absorb shock and imprive grip. A death grip on handle bars makes for a short ride full of pain. I wide and padded seat isnt necessarily mire comfortable. A seat that supports the sitbones without causing too much friction is ideal. Shoes with a stiff sole helps with foot pain by dustributing the pressure. Reminding yourself now and then to relax and drop the shoulders, keep a light grip on handlebars and a light foot on the pedals, can make a big difference. Even to take a deep breath in and out now and then. Even the perfect bike setup cannot force you to ride with ease and comfort if you forget to relax.
Great info in there! I tend to get a sore butt after 20-30 miles. (Ergon sm pro seat) im currently stuck on a mtb, wishing I had a drop bar endurance bike. My next biking step is to pay for a fitting before purchasing a road bike. My ideal bike would be an endurance/all road bike. Comfortable enough for 50+ miles, clearance for 40mm tires. Im open to suggestions. I was liking the surly midnight special, but ive heard its made more for 650b wheels, and leaves you feeling like your on top of the bike with 700c. I love the name though. My flyfishing rod is a moonshine midnight special. It makes me sing a song inserting my own words. "Let the midnight special, shine down on me!"
@@brandonhoffman4712 Butt soreness is the easiest thing to fix normally. If it is something as simple as the skin being rubbed raw in the taint area, the problem is too much friction. If you sweat, it will turn your underwear into sandpaper. Easiest way to protect the skin is to use a short with chamois, and do not wear underpants. If you still have sore skin, just dab a bit of special purpose grease, such as chamois butter between the cheeks, or a bit of Vaseline. Grease will help repel water as well as keep the skin soft. For comfort, I find the B12 from brooks amazing. It is heavier than modern seats, but I can even ride in jeans for long distance in that saddle. My other favorite is selle italia classic.
As a small addition: knee pain can also be caused by having the middle of the foot instead of the tip on the pedals while pushing hard. This way you cannot use the muscles around your ankles very well and transfer all the force directly to your knees. Combine this with the other very common error of going in too high gears with resulting high forces at low pedaling speeds and you'll get in trouble over time. The last issue of not shifting is resulting from a strange mindset problem at least with some people: they think shifting down to a lighter gear is "weak" and they're "hard" and can "push through" for some reason...
@@dereinzigwahreRichi 100 percent on the shifting. I used to live at the top of a long hill, and in addition to commuting ran 30 plus miles a week, until one day I needed knee surgery. Still can't run but can ride. The physical therapy after the surgery taught me a lot of stuff I wish I had known before. Dont neglect strength training. Do yer squats. Strengthen the muscles around the knees for stability. Take more rest days, and train at lower intensity..
gonna comment before i even watch the video: I always saw these 2 viewpoints "sit up straight" vs "lean forward" and i tried both and both gave me a sore afterfeel. Then i just kept switching my pose whenever i felt like it and never had pain afterwards again. The spine usually tells you when to switch your position ,just like sitting down and moving around whenever you feel a slight discomfort, then you're good.
That's a terrific point, thanks for commenting. I find it easier to lean forward on an upright bike than vice-versa, so that's how I resolve that personally.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt Me too. I put a stem raiser on my mtb. Sometimes i sit upright... sometimes i go down so much i'm almost in an aerobar position. But when i sit upright... i'm really grateful i didn't remove the stem raiserl something i have consdered doing.
Yes bike riding is very unnatural. The more dynamic you can make it the better. Sometimes I do chin tucks when traffic is clear. I get out of the saddle often. Clip and unclip often. Using recessed cleats with Dual sided pedals is extremely underrated. And as you mentioned adjusting the handlebars to allow for multiple hand and body positions. I find drop bars easiest to accommodate that
Good and very informative video. When I was 15 drop bars were fine. By the time I was twenty they were not comfortable. I stopped riding and sold my beautiful Super Course. When I was 55 I really wanted to ride again and bought a hybrid. It was not at all comfortable but taught me that I really wanted to be upright. I converted a few vintage Schwinn road bikes to see what might work and was pretty happy with the results. I started looking for a vintage Schwinn touring bike with long chain stays and found a nice Passage which I converted and was pretty comfortable on it. Finally my little brother, who lives in Amsterdam, convinced me to buy an actual real Dutch bike. I found an Azor pastoorfiet in my size and on the first ride quickly understood why the Dutch ride the bikes they do. I'm 72 now, still riding, not very fast but very comfortable.
If you take weight off wrists by going more upright your transferring that weight back onto saddle which increases saddle pressure. For me its about finding that balance between saddle pressure and hand pressure.
Definitely - the right balance is everything. Saddle and grip choice also make a huge difference (in my experience) so there's a lot to experiment with!
I find that front/back seat position relative to the pedals, also makes a huge difference how much weight feels comfortable to keep on the pedals; with more of my weight resting on my pedals, neither my hands nor butt get as sore.
I added aero bars to my road bike to do an Ironman. The forward aero bar position is hard to get used to, and I still have to get out of it now and then to rest, or when there is a steep hill. However it totally removed the wrist pain and is actually comfortable on the shoulders and wrists. Just gotta make sure your aero bars are back close to you and the seat is adjusted to be more forward so you are not outstretched on your elbows. This position isn't ideal for basic riding, uses lots of glutes to save the quads for the run of a triathlon, but it was a game changer for my comfort in an efficient position. I am probably gonna keep this position even after the triathlon is over. I am finding it to be that awesome.
Thank you for tackling this issue. I cycle a lot and have been advised often to get a road bike. But I never feel comfortable on a road bike and on my hybrid I still go pretty quick and sometimes just as quick as or quicker than those on road bikes so I stick with my hybrid. I do sometimes find myself getting into a more aggressive, forward leaning stance on my bike. To each their own I say. I also feel safer being able to see more of what is around me when I am on my hybrid.
Thanks for watching. Great point about being able to get forward and more aggressive when needed. Can even grab the bars right by the stem and tuck way down if need be! Hybrids are a great happy medium for a lot of us.
Hybrid bikes are also better value for money and frequently have a wider range of gears; the only thing not to like on a hybrid are the very straight bars but give the swept back bars a try, they make a big difference but don't go too wide as wide bars are a bit dangerous riding in groups.
I raced bikes for over twenty years and ride in an aggressive aero dynamic position. It’s comfortable to ride that way for hours at a time but it takes time to develop that ability. It can be done. There are some great bike shop with bike fitters to help. Riding with experienced riders that can mentor new riders is a huge advantage not only for comfort but many other things that need to be learned. Even with a perfectly setup bike it will take a few weeks to adapt.
Yep I think you're spot on for race/sport cycling. Very different set of priorities. The focus here is on more utilitarian riding, which I probably could have made more explicit.
Well, when I was in my teens, 20s and even 30s, I could also ride for miles in an aggressive aero dynamic position. Then, for unrelated reasons, I started to develop some cervical spine issues in my 40s, and now I can no longer tolerate tilting my head upward for any extended period of time. People who suffer from various classes of back pain due to various classes of spine issues (often related to wear and tear in soft tissue in-between spinal vertebrates) cannot always ride in a forward position without experiencing pain and sometimes also numbness in arms or legs from pressure on nerves or their spinal chord. In addition, for riding in densely-populated cities where you have to navigate around pedestrians, pedestrians walking dogs, joggers and people on skates or skateboards who occupy bike lanes or road shoulders, and also cars or motorcycles with drivers who sometimes swerve into bike lanes or road shoulders, it can be safer and more sensible to ride in an upright position. I live in the City of Chicago, and most of my riding is to commute, run errands or get around to meet friends. I finally gave up my road bike after I was riding one evening, turned my head to look behind me for a friend who was riding along with me, hit a pot hole that I didn't see with my front wheel, and promptly flipped over my front handlebars head first into the road. I believe that I would have been much less likely to do an "endo" in an upright riding posture. I decided that it's safer (and also better for my back) to ride in a more-upright position in the city where I content with unexpected obstacles, and I finally ditched my old road bike with drop tubes. I think it was a good decision. My old bike was good for touring, but it was less practical and less safe for riding in occasional stop-and-go traffic conditions in a densely-populated city.
Thanks RC … a great story. If Seniors are worried about re-gaining balance to ride again, after a break many decades long, the trick is a NEW bike from a bike shop with modern braking and gear options and PRACTICE. You may have to do figure 8s in your driveway 10 minutes each day for weeks to get up to going out into safe lanes in a flat place, ie a large parking lot. I did it that way and, at 76, I am very happy. Avoid vintage cycles because they are usually nightmares disguised as a dream. Believe me, I have two restored Schwinns that are conversation pieces, not a bike that I should use. If this becomes a “featured comment” thank you. I write from the heart.
The leg length is probably too short. These were children’s bikes. Vintage and new may both have caliper brakes but old ones are touchy, not as good with moisture and newer ones are easier to adjust. New gear options are more friendly to seniors. You can also get them without a derailer and still have 8 speeds. The vintage bike weighs at least 10 pounds more loading and unloading into my truck. Bike repair people like new better. Find a tube for an old Schwinn. Not easy because they made theirs a little different. Good luck !
@@robkunkel8833 thanks for the info! I got myself an 80s nishiki road bike. The pedals were too small and my foot slipped into the front wheel and i broke both my elbows on my 3rd ride on it haha. Cheers
Makes sense. My favorite ridng position is when I can go hands free and sit straight upright. I've logged thousands of touring miles in that position. It doesn't just make me feel cool, it feels like a more sustainable all day position.
When we were young, my younger brother would pop a wheelie and ride around on the back wheel. He could climb hills and make tight turns without dropping the front end! 😜
Hi, I'm glad you're cool and enjoying riding. I suppose you have worked out that you can't steer or brake when your hands are nowhere near the bars. I hope you revert to a conventional riding position when you are near any other people. I don't really welcome finding you riding towards me on a path at a closing speed of 50km/hr without any control.
I have a comfort bike. I feel like it’s not upright enough for me. I used to enjoy riding fast and far, but I’ve had back surgery and have screws and rods at L4-S1. It makes riding very uncomfortable for me. I’m still debating if I need to get a bike that sits even more upright, or if I need to get a completely different style bike altogether. You don’t realize how much changes until you’ve had back surgery.
@@babblesp1367Sounds like a recumbent is the thing for you. They are expensive, but very fast on the flats. And very tough to climb hills with. Long swept back handlebars can work as well.
As a Dutchman who has been riding a bicycle for his entire life, this was an interesting watch because most of this was either passive or subconscious knowledge. That said, I do agree with everything you said, so you seem to know what you're talking about!
Ridding in Nederland, France and Denmark made me aware of what I call the Dutch style setup. But setting up ebikes to the Dutch style was a lengthy process, one that involved creative alterations. One issue is stems. Dutch style bikes usually have straight stems whereas typical North American bikes have forward offset stems. These issues aside it is important to make a series of small tweaks to arrive at a setup that maximizes comfort while minimizing stress especially tension in the back, shoulders and arms.o
I have been enjoying my Spongy Wonder noseless bike saddle on my electrified, full suspension Giant bike for 5-6 years with absolutely ZERO pain, discomfort or prostate issues. The fact that I don’t have a lot of natural padding on my butt made this seat an essential purchase and I would NEVER consider any other on any of my rides. The fact that Jeff stands behind his product is just icing on the cake. Highly recommended!!!
Really nice video. Great quality. I am a road bike rider who rides 120 miles per week. The forward leaning drop bar position is an absolute must for long rides, 60 or more miles. In an upright position, it takes too much energy to ride into the wind and I just don’t have enough calories on tap to get me there. The more efficient riding position lets those long rides happen. I’m likely not the target audience for your video, though. But like I said, great, high quality video!
Appreciate the feedback, and thanks for watching. Spot on, this video was definitely more of a utilitarian and low-key recreational take on the matter. As you pointed out, it's a whole other story for very long rides (and/or trying to maintain a pace with your buddies on road bikes)!
That's incorrect, you don't need a drop bar for such distances. I've been doing 600-700 km per week (on bike trips) with a normal handlebar without any problems (while riding hilly terrain and forest trails with no hard cover). If you don't have enough calories, the problem is not the handlebar. If you ride for longer that 1-2 hours continuously, you have to do snack breaks. On a full day's ride, of course, you must have lunch and dinner breaks AS WELL AS regular snack breaks.
Most people understand the purpose of drop bars as well as those ridiculous tiny prostate wrecking seats. I don't consider either vaguely worth the damage they inflict on human health.
I disagree. I have an upright bike, and before the pandemic, I regularly rode from downtown Toronto to Holland Landing and back, and even to Barrie a few times, i.e. trips of a total of 100 to 200 km in one go, and I am very far from being an "athlete". I have a very sedentary desk job. I would never ride a bike requiring me to be folded in half. I don't sit at my desk like that either.
I’ve ridden road bikes and mountain bikes for years. Rented an upright city bike on vacation, and couldn’t believe how in uncomfortable it was. You get used to things I guess. A wide seat and upright posture mean the cranks are more forward of the seat. This makes it significantly more difficult to shift weight off the saddle for bumps. Add that to just having more weight on the seat from the position, makes for a sore butt.
One of the big differences is the climbs. When you need to stand up in the climbs, you get much less support from your arms and push from your back when riding in an upright position. Also if riding a racing bike is uncomfortable, how is it not uncomfortable or problematic to ride many hours long rides? It is all about trainining and strengthen your muscles to handle it.
Those upright stepthrough bikes are meant for flat city roads with almost no incline. Maybe they should have recommended a hybrid depending on where you're going and the road conditions there.
I think that part has to do with the fact that pedaling more slowing on a upright bike puts weight on the buttocks that on a forward leaning posture at greater speed would be on the ball of the driving foot. I.e. the force on the cranks takes a lot of the weight off your rear. If you try to ride a road bike very gently, the saddle gets uncomfortable. Road and MTB saddles are designed less for support than to make pedaling efficient by getting out of the way. If you don't sit with all your weight, this isn't a problem.
I loved to see the warnings that radical changes of posture can lead to problems. I tested this once on my urban bike that was made to have an "agressive" posture. I changed it in an almost fully upright position. I exprienced once the effect of a very small obstacles on the front road. It induced a very rapid lateral move of the front road. I decided to abandon the modifications I made.
All good advice here. I bought the wrong size and style of bike years ago because of a deal. It's never been comfy until recently when I bought a steerer tube extension, adjustable stem, riser handlebars and a new wider saddle. Realistically I should have bought a dutch bike in the first place!
One more option if your bike is too big is an idea I don't recommend doing and that I will experiment with tomorrow: reverse the stem so that the handlebars point inward. I'm a bit too short for this bike that I received so i'll test to see if it will give a more upright ride. Informative video.
This fine for short distances but if you are planning on increasing your range above 30 km you will find you reach a point where in a very short space of time it will go from comfortable to spine jarring, ass numbing pain. The reason touring bikes almost always come with drops (and some even add TT bars) is no coincidence. If you put yourself in a more forward position (not aggressive) you will find it less comfortable, (but not uncomfortable) than upright BUT you will be able to maintain it for much longer, and when you have adapted/built some core strength you will be able to maintain it for literally days on end. In short if you plan on taking up cycling as a serious hobby/sport or as your main transport put up with the discomfort now and reap the rewards down the line. Oh and big squashy "comfort saddles" are the work of the devil designed to give you saddle sores and soft tissue damage, they will feel super comfy for about 20 minutes and then turn into medieval torture devices.
I appreciate the points you have made in this video. As a senior checking out bikes, I was noting how many bikes are designed for racing position and thinking the same thing about strain on the lumbar region and the neck and restriction in vision. I have no particular need for speed! I know that I am in the larger demographic for electric bikes and am amazed how few models take into consideration this market.
I appreciate you watching, Ann. You might have better luck with e-bikes from some European brands; Gazelle comes to mind. There seems to be more demand there for e-bikes with traditional, upright city bike posture. Also check out Norco's Scene VLT (Canadian, not European, but still).
Thanks for the info. I bought a used full suspension MTB to maintain fitness beyond 60, and immediately swapped out the straight bars for a more wrist-friendly bar, probably about 30 degrees angle. I run a high saddle with the bar grips at the same height and with the suspension set soft I can go all day! I don't need to dodge potholes either so that makes it safer in traffic!
I took my wife’s upright riding position bike out to see if I would find it comfortable. It was until I came across a rough road surface. Every jolt from the rear tire went straight up my spine. I think that enough forward lean posture to allow the hip and spine to flex could save spinal injury. A suspension seat post will help too.
That's an excellent point! Sprung saddles also help a ton. I've generally used a Brooks B67 on my upright bikes; no mistaking it for a full-suspension mountain bike (lol) but it's enough to avoid that painful jolt you described.
Same experiences here. Sitting upright drives all my weight straight down my back and gets uncomfortable quickly. I like my position on my road bikes because it supports me front (hands) and rear (saddle) much more equally. Probably not 50/50 of course, but better than sitting upright.
Great information! I have a mountain bike that puts weight on my wrists, which is so painful that I quit riding! Thank you for getting me back in the saddle!
This is a great video! Wish I'd had this information back when I started my bike journey. Right now I have a XC mountain bike, and I've used it for both mountain biking and bikepacking. For MTB I have the flat bars which came on the bike, but for bikpacking I actually bought touring bars, like the Nitto ones but much cheaper. They are super comfortable! I love them because I can move my hands around to so many different positions, even more than you would with drop bars. I know they look kind of goofy, but I don't care.
Nice, there are so many cool alternative bars for bikepacking these days. Huge fan of Jones bars personally. Hope you're having fun out there! Thanks for watching.
A too upright riding position is as unhealthy as a too stretched-out one. When you're all straight upright, all the bumps from the road will move almost directly through your spinal column. When you're bent a little forward, your glutes and thigh muscles help in distributing the occuring forces.
Good point, and thanks for mentioning it. I find a sprung saddle super helpful when sitting bolt upright, but there's a limit to what it can absorb. Always good to experiment!
that depends on the bike you ride. Most of the upright bikes have a proper suspension under the saddle, built into the frame or just a way softer saddle altogether to absorb all the shock. Road bikes dont have that, city bikes do. My bike is an average one and has all 3 of the above, so unless the bump is really huge, i cant feel it at all sitting upright for hours. Besides when I ride through a big bump i would stand on the pedals for a second anyway. I think you dont understand that city bikes are designed thoughtfully too, Smart design does not apply to road bikes only.
@@agatasobocinska1142 I do sell all kinds of bikes in my bike shop. And right, it helps standing up from the saddle before hitting a bump, no matter how well-cushioned your saddle is.
Good video. Wish I had this information 12 years ago. I figured it out eventually but the bike shops were not much help. They couldn't think of anything but racing stile back then. They seem to be more aware of people just wanting a recreational riding stile now. But sad to say some are still stuck in the old way of thinking.
Thanks! It's cool to see more utilitarian bike shops these days (Clever Cycles in Portland is my personal favorite) but they are still way too few and far between!
Ere now the most comfortable for me has been getting off and walking the bike. Making the seat and bar adjustments just right is hit or miss and often counterintuitive. I appreciate this and other such helpful videos.
I have an upright bike and a road bike. The upright bike has flat pedals, a padded seat, a kick stand, and a basket - and is perfect for getting around town, going shopping, etc. But anything over 5k, or anything hilly, and the inefficient riding position really makes it a drag to ride. The road bike is comfortable on trips in excess of 100k and in the mountains, and is perfect for recreational cycling or getting in a good workout. But since it requires special shoes and bike shorts (preferably full lycra) to ride, I almost never use it for everyday chores. I would use it for commuting though as long as I had a place to change (and preferably a shower) at the office. For anything in the middle, where I wanted something utilitarian but also needed to cover longer distances, I would look into an e-bike with a basket or rack, mud guards, kick stand, flat pedals, etc. Upright position with swept handlebars if I’m mostly expecting to do trips under 10k, or a hybrid bike with a slightly more forward position if longer than that. The battery assistance is key for helping you arrive at your destination without working too hard and getting too sweaty. Weight is an issue with ebikes though, so not great if you regularly need to bring your bike up a flight of stairs or something.
Thanks for watching and for a great comment. The clothes factor is a huge one, as you pointed out, and closely related to posture. That might deserve its own video... Agreed re: e-bikes, they're such an exciting option for relaxed posture + casual clothes and high mileage. Hopefully battery tech will improve to the point that weight isn't such a challenge...
@@ChrisBanda ...where correct posture, in addition to correct fit, is more important than the casual upright ride where demands on the body are not as great.
Well I am biased as I ride a Bacchetta Giro A20 recumbent touring bike I have modified it for a full mesh seat that I sit in , not on and I can sit in my comfortable seat for 5 hours at a time and as I can not stand to pedal that seat is really comfortable. I have shorter crank arms as it came with 170 mm arms and I put on 153 mm arms , I came to realize that the big chain wheel up front was just not getting used till I came to a downhill so I removed it . I then changed the front chain rings from 22-36-48 to 22-42 and the back 9 speed to 32-12 . My cadence is 85-90 rpm and yes downhills I run out of gears but for the most part the gearing is close increments and there are no big drops in cadence. As I have nerve damage in both hands from 37 years of riding holding my body weight on the handlebars , the recumbent is a blessing as no body weight is on the handlebars at all. I keep hearing that you can ride a diamond frame bike pain free if you get a good bike fit? Over time your body breaks down from what you have taken for granted for so long and then it starts to complain. Sit bones are on how many square inches of saddle? My seat is 16" wide and I have a full backrest. neck starin is for people who have to hold their heads up to see the road instead of the front tire. I look straight ahead and have no problem seeing or being seen . Now where I live there are a lot of cyclists including the pro riders and it is interesting to watch them as One will sit up on his bike and wring out his hands pedaling without hands on the bars or someone else will stand on the pedals to relieve their butt soreness. These riders accept this as part of cycling just as I did for so long before seeking comfort with my speed. The alternative to pain is comfort.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt When you do I suggest buying used as the variety of different configurations long , medium. short wheel base , under seat steering or over seat , low racer, commuting or high racer , with different seats for racing or for plush comfort. All components for any recumbent are road or mountain except for the steering and the seat. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Parker Just if you wanna go real fast and try to beat her?
Good advice for keeping the back from getting stiff and sore. As someone with above average city riding experience in New York, it actually feels easier to maintain more upright easier postures on nature trails. Reason: City driving requires a defensive alertness that means being ready for aggressive driving at any given moment to avoid disaster. This applies to pedal bikes and also e-bikes. I'm a class 3 fat tire e-bike operator today and I use this bike for all of my transportation needs. The defensive alertness applies even more with the e-bikes. I'd love to relax and enjoy my rides, unfortunately there's a lot of angry drivers who don't like bikes in the road and they make it very difficult for bicycle riders who most oftentimes would rather be in a comfy vehicle instead of getting screamed at by someone in a comfy vehicle who doesn't even know the road laws pertaining to e-bikes. Be careful out there operating any type of vehicle on the roads, and if you're in a car annoyed to see someone on a bike, remember you're in a more privileged position in your car and you never know if you could find yourself out there on a bike or walking one day. For any triggered motor vehicle drivers thinking there should be better bike lane infrastructure and maybe even age laws on certain classes of e-bikes, I feel your pain and I agree, but that doesn't mean you have to take your frustration out one someone while moving 30 mph on the road raging, because that behavior makes everyone unsafe. I can't even count how many times I've been screamed at in 30 mile per hour zones to go on the sidewalk when the law states that the class e-bike I am operating must be on the road for these speed zones.
I ride several miles at a time. The biggest improvement in comfort I found were aero bars. Where I rest on my elbows for a good portion of the ride. It feels like laying down to pedal. I tested recumbent bikes. They are most comfortable. But it seemed too strange to me. Leaning back to ride.
I think aero bars would be the most inconvenient for transportation cycling tho. Your head would be even lower to the ground, making it much harder to see your surroundings. Not to mention the handling. In a city with with a lot of other people using the streets, you'd probably want good control over your bike.
@@MondeSerenaWilliams you’re right. Aero bars aren’t the best for traffic. Just for those stretches where you want to get the weight off of your wrists. It takes some weight off of your butt too. Aero bars are especially good in a headwind. But your hands are away from your controls. You have to change position to brake or shift. I’m more of a bike tourer than commuter. When I come to a town I’m off of the bars.
Excellent video. At 65 years old I'm still attached to my mountain bikes, however the riding position is very unpleasant for my wrists. I'm going to try this
Banana seat and Ape hangers with feet forward is the only way to go. We were designed to sit on our butt not on our crotch. And when you have to stop, you just put your feet down and keep your butt planted in the saddle.
I use an old road bike as a commuter and I found my compromise keemping the drop bar but with a shorter and higher city bike stem. It works great for both "fast" riding and commuting
When I got my 2012 Cannondale quick 4, people were looking at me like I'd grown a second head for not wanting a road bike in seattle. You ever see people on those hills craning around to try and see in traffic? Ha! But, it's been great for having both forward position comfort and being able to sit upright. A bit of butt shift on the saddle and using fingertips on the handlebars makes it easy to sit upright for more casual areas. But it's also amazing how many solid quality handlebars and seats there are for pretty cheap. I added a slightly wider bar so that my hand positions fit my chest and shoulder width better and it was great. My 8 year old is on an rei bike that's a similar rider position and she's now loving the variety of seat positions compared to her friends' either BMX style or super budget upright kid bikes.
I recently lowered my saddle position because my feet could barely touch the ground. Although this has provided an initial increase in stability I find that after long rides of 60-100 km I'm getting back cramps that I didn't get before.
Thanks for this video, I'm trying to fix my old mountain bike and make it more comfortable to ride to commute to college and the job, I really don't care at all about speed or power efficiency, just make as comfy as possible to ride and carry my stuff, then i want to convert it to an e-bike while i'm still saving enough money to buy a motorcycle. Anyways this is the best starting point. Thank you very much
I went ahead and had a bike shop do a full fitting for my bike. They tweaked a bunch of this stuff while closely looking at my posture and listening to me about how each change felt. It was definitely worth it for longer rides. Despite me being on a road bike that sacrifices comfort for speed, I'm pretty comfortable being on that bike for hours at a time. I can only imagine that if I did that with a bike designed primarily for comfort it would feel even better.
Great video 👍 I changed my Cube reaction emtb with 27.5 " wheels into a comfy, nippy, agile urban commuter by adding a comfy saddle, a stem riser and inward curving handlebars. Brilliant little bike, perfect for my upright ride style and the dense awkward/infrastructure around me. She goes through gaps and it's more comfortable for people to walk past me when I stop for them, than when I had the wider emtb handlebars, and much easier to get it through the front door
Why are handle bars swept back? That requires twisting the wrist. If anything, handlebars should be swept forward if you want to bend your arms. Or, you can get a similar effect with the vertical posts that stick out of the handlebars like some do.
Mostly, USA bikes are athletic/competition machines; such is this culture. the ones in the Netherlands "get it" along with the rail transit to cycle to.
I've been commuting for the past month on a bicycle with a regular handlebar height where you have to lean forward a bit. Usually several times during my ride, I have to take one of my hands off and let it hang because it partially falls asleep from the pressure put on it. They are flat handlebars and i even have ergonomic grips. They are not even drop handlebars so the lean angle isn't even that aggressive.
Too bad; that can be super frustrating. In my personal experience, swept-back handlebars help eliminate the pressure points that cause weird hand numbness. Not necessarily higher rise, just with grips that angle back maybe 30-45° for starters.
The thing is that, generally, the more comfy the position, the less efficient the action of pedaling and propelling the bike, which can reduce the joy of cycling. You may be comfy yet exhausted from the inefficiency of the stance. The trick is to find a nice middle ground, a Goldy Locks zone of comfort and efficiency.
The inefficiency of the upright stance becomes more pronounced the faster you attempt to ride with wind resistance playing a larger role as speeds increase. However, with an upright city bike traveling at safe and enjoyable speeds of around 10mph, wind resistance becomes less of an issue and is offset by the fact that one is enjoying the ride itself as opposed to purposefully attempting to arrive at a destination as fast as possible. For my early years I was a fast rider on a racing bicycle, but I had no aspirations of becoming a professional bike racer. Now that I am older and wiser I see the value in developing relationships and enjoying the sights, and enjoying the ride itself rather than my attempting to get the ride over with as soon as possible. I wish I had understood this when I was younger and had no friends to ride with because I was too focused on going fast, and not focused on having fun and enjoying the ride and being with my friends. So unless one is seriously dedicated to becoming a professional athlete, I would advise against racing to your destination on a sporty bike. My current bike is a Belgium hand-made Achielle city bike with a front basket for my Bose speaker, and I have had more fun on that slow moving upright bike than on all my other bikes combined..
Move your position regularly,and do your own bike fit.Dont fuck about with geometry too much.Make SMALL adjustments to your bike and keep a note of what you change.
I hear everywhere of the trade off between efficiency and comfort, and that efficiency only matters in racing and training. But I don’t understand it. if my commute takes more energy and more time then it is a cold comfort (currently it takes one hour by bike compared to 25 minutes by car).
If you are talking about just going to work, take the car if riding there and back seems like more trouble than it's worth. Unless you have no choice in the matter, ride because you want to ride, or just don't bother. Bicycles take a significant amount of money and time to own and maintain; if you don't enjoy riding, you're wasting your resources.
@@Marty1857 I did not ask for your advice. I do like to ride but I also prefer not to arrive at work too exhausted. Yes it does cost quite a bit but it is also healthy.
The speed vs effort on a bike is pretty dramatic. Depends on your fitness and bike, but 15 mph might be nearly without effort, like a brisk walk, while 17 mph is like jogging. 20 mph is like a hard training run and 23 mph is balls to the wall. Adding just 5 minutes to the commute going to work, might be enough to avoid sweating, and then race on the way home.
@@bjornlangoren3002 sure, I am not trying to race on the way to work but if i can have a bike that makes me spend a bit less effort and maybe get to work a little quicker, that's useful. Couriously, my ride home always takes noticeabl;y longer, maybe because I am more tired.
@@borisgurevich5504 that's my experience too. I used to ride with a guy to work, a vegan. He struggled to keep up going there, but it was me struggling going back. An electric bike might be worth exploring for that kind of commute. I will likely never get one, but it's better than using a car if the bike commute is too strenuous.
That's why I have two different bicycles. City bike for everyday usage, and mountain bike for resting and sport activities. My neck are strugling on a mountain bike so, because I usually go on 30-50km rides.
As a dutch person. I like promotion of upright biking. But there are many things important for comfortable upright biking. Buy the correct frame size with the correct weel size. And the height of the sadle has to be such that your leg is streched with just a little knee angle. Hope I helped a bit. Kids grow fast and in that case adjusting the sadle all the time is a must, when you see the knee still beeing bend to much when streched. This needs pictures 😅
upright biking makes sense if you are strolling along at 15-25 kmh. It's a chore above those speeds. So it depends really, are u biking for transport, leisure, or sport. People who prefer to go fast will never go upright.
Ha! This was the exact conversation I had with a mechanic this week. I don't like leaning into the saddle so generally stay in a 5 mile radius. We had a conversation that was this exact video, and then RU-vid surprised me with it 🤷🏻♀️🤣🤔 x
And no it is not my goal to go as fast as possible. I generally don't like pushing it faster than I can stop at, my top speed is about 17, the machine on my street generally says 11-14 depending on wind and energy. I'm happy with that. 10miles per hour. I don't really go further, 10-15 miles, and an hour is great. Happy with getting strong thighs x
That's awesome! It's eerie but cool how RU-vid works sometimes haha. And I agree, ~ 10-15 mph is the sweet spot. Enough to get where you're going but thoroughly enjoy the ride!
@@twowheelsbetter_yt yeah those that whizz past me and though lights... I don't wait at lights unless there is traffic, I generally tiptoe around to get ahead of cars, but I now have to watch for cyclists speeding or going the wrong way next to where I live, the correct way is about 1.5 seconds later and no blind spot. I think with increasing numbers we do need better basics... x
@@twowheelsbetter_yt but I'm still undecided re saddle. I do quite like the lean forward, maybe I'd love upright, maybe my spine wouldn't... Argh. Might increase stem height first x
The most comfortable but at the same time fast bikes was ignored; recumbent bikes. No strains on rear or wrist, a clear view of the road ahead of you rather than staring at the ground, and low wind resistance. If only people were openminded.
I have a old 90's dutch street racing bike that is transformed to city bike so I can ride it upright. It has short wheel base but riding seems very good. It's a balancing act between speed and comfort. I become very slow with headwind and incline though :D
I like to say that almost any bike can be used for almost any purpose, but it's certainly true that getting a bike designed for your particular purpose is going to make things easier.
I appreciate the excellent video on how to ride in comfort. I do want to say that I ride a hybrid and feel I'm just as serious of a cyclist as any road bike enthusiast. I'm just not attracted to the road bike drop handlebars whatsoever. It looks and feels unnatural to me especially given that I'm an urban cyclist. I ride 20-30 miles regularly around my city on a hybrid and much prefer the more upright, relaxed posture with an easy comfortable reach to my handlebars. I'm not interested in leaning down or racing yet I've done a couple of metric routes (100k) and was very comfortable on my hybrid with my straight handlebars. My advice is not to let anyone pressure you into getting a road bike if you really just want to ride for pleasure (even for long tours) around your city in a natural upright position yet still have the option for workouts and long rides around town. Plus, a hybrid will give you more options for packing things around with accessories like saddle bags.
Thanks for watching and for the terrific comment. There's such a strong tendency to equate "serious" with a bike that looks/feels a particular way. Not helpful, and probably detrimental to newer riders in particular! Good point re: packing things, too. Easier to make cycling part of life when carrying normal stuff is no sweat!
I haven't ridden a bike in more than 50 years since I was a kid. But recent knee problems have made running more problematic and so I bought a hybrid bike last year. It has straight bars and the size is a medium. The brand is Giant. I am 183 cm tall. Riding this bike kills my lumber and cervical spinal areas. The pain is unbearable. I tried adjusting everything I could, then went back to the shop where I bought it. They put an adjustable stem on it, which raised the bars and brought them closer to my body. But the reach is just too much and it didn't solve the problem of severe pain. I can't believe that at my height that the correct size for me would be a small. This video explains all the geometry and potential fixes very well. I have had to come to the realization that my history of spinal injuries and my age make riding a bike for fitness untenable for me. If I continue trying to ride a bike, I am convinced it will leave me permanently disabled and in intractable neck and back pain. My knees are better this year and I am carefully returning to running. Backcountry skiing and telemark skiing never ever hurt. I just have to accept that this is how I am. Cycling just does not work for my body.
Thanks for watching and for sharing your story. Too bad cycling has been so hard to get back into, but it's great that other activities seem to be working out! It might be worth trying an _actual_ Dutch bike, or some other traditional city bike with strongly swept-back handlebars, to shorten the reach a ton while keeping you on a larger size. Or maybe even recumbent? Either way, hope you have a lot of good adventures to come!
It took while to feel & understand the cause of lower back issues was the 15 y Dropbars. For me its coltural thing that you're serious Biker w Dropbars. Of course later you might realize you back L4-L5 starting manifests in a painful way. Anyway to day most everyone fall in to style by discarding pain & dicomfort!!!
I can't stand riding with the handlebars lower than the saddle. it just so un-comfortable and puts so much weight on my shoulders. Why ANYBODY would even WANT to ride in that position is beyond me. I put BMX handlebars on my bike so they're much higher than the saddle. So much better, so much more comfortable, it was like a completely different bike and I'm not going back.
I don't even understand why it would be around the same height as saddle. If you're sitting at a desk, your hands are significantly higher than your butt. So comfortable riding position would need the handles to be significantly higher than saddle imo... Sadly, I can't adjust it high enough...
A few tips ,buy a woman's bike seat ,so much more comfy ,made sure your seat height is right ,and make sure the handle bars are high enough (stem risers solve this) and that's it ,a well set up and maintained bike will feel effortless to ride
I much prefer leaning forward, but my drop bars are set pretty high. The height of my drops are around the same height as most people's hoods. I ride on the drops 90% of the time, and switch to the hoods to relax.
this has actually been the reason i havent started riding a bike, all bikes where i live (north victoria, australia) are sports bikes and dont even allow the chair and handles to get to the spot i want
I found thompson style swept back seat posts good at avoiding hard hard tail shocks too. I have converted all my bikes with raisers and dutch style swept back handle bars .
What do you think of handlebars that have three fixed positions: one forward and slightly down for racing, one horizontal for everyday riding, and one facing up straight, or at a slight angle, for a more relaxed posture? The vertical one is available with an option to CHANGE on the fly, it's angle.
Low down and stretched out is both more efficient AND more comfortable. Sitting upright transmits road shock directly up your spine and concentrates the weight on just one part of your body. Not good for the long haul. Source: 30+ years cycling to the tune of 5000-10000 km per year. Also: if you want to achieve an aerodynamic tuck, it's much more comfortable to increase reach with a longer stem rather than lowering the bars.
Thankyou for the informative video.My wife was finding her 1984 Raleigh mixte frame bike ( she's had it from new!) a bit uncomfortable. I replaced the fixed stem (good old fashioned quill) with an adjustable item and some new randonneur handlebars. Transformed it,much more comfortable. Luckily she's not complained about the friction shifters yet!
I swapped out to ape hangers on 2 bikes and bmx bars on another. Had to redo brake lines but now I have 3 awesome bikes! Plus one ebike, which sucks, too many things that can go wrong and changing bar on it would involve messing with hydraulic brakes, shifter cables and computer wires. Should have spent the money in really good simple single speed commuter bike
I suggest that anyone buying a saddle buys one of the Brooks range which have been manufactured for over a hundred years. A leather saddle makes so much difference, I am using a Brooks B17 narrow that I bought 30 years ago on one bike and a Brooks B17 standard on another that is 10 years old.
Saddles are highly individual. The saddle has to fit your butt, so to speak. For most occasional riders, a Brooks saddle is too uncomfortable because they are very hard at the beginning and take a lot of time to break in. They are also very expensive and heavy. Once broken in and well-maintained they can be super-comfy, and many long-distance-touring cyclists swear by them, moving their saddles to their new bike when their old ones need replacing.
Currently considering replacing my handlebar mount for a threadless just because I like the aesthetic but I’m concerned about dropping the handlebars too low. If they end up too low would you think replacing the handlebars or adding a riser would be better?
I like to get handlebars as close to the right height as possible, and only *then* add a stem riser if it's still necessary. What do you mean by "handlebar mount"? The stem?
I did the opposite. I switched from upright to time trial bikes and never looked back. The caveat is that upright riding is killer on your knees. I have arthritis so switching the load to my hips was a game changer. Also it makes your butt cooler because upright riding requires a softer seat which wraps your bum and blocks wind. In summary upright riding is better for short distances because longer distances put too much stress on the knees. This could be mitigated by using electric assistance too. Also safety depends on traffic speed. The quicker I get off the road the better so faster is safer. If you live somewhere where traffic travels 15mph or less than upright riding is safe but in Phoenix cars are often at 55 mph on the roads so having better aerodynamics is key to reducing car exposure because you spend less time in traffic due to faster riding speeds.
Old 80s bike position was stem 1 inch lower than saddle height. Generally speaking it worked and lowering your body into deeper drops was aero. Lol. Now stems are slammed and people need noseless saddles. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Cycling is a fitness sport once you ride more than 25 miles, the only way to be comfortable (relatively) when riding distances of 25 to 100 miles in a day is fitness. No seat, no handlebar no bike is going to be comfortable until you achieve a level of fitness. Weight training or skate style cross country skiing or kayaking/rowing is necessary for upper body fitness on long 25+ mile rides. Your butt will always be uncomfortable until you have some good muscle tone, and then you will need to develop skills of longer time out of saddle riding and perfect positioning. All handlebar systems for the recreational rider WILL NOT FUNCTION! Drop bars, flat bars, bar ends, nothing will work to keep you comfortable. ONLY a custom bar set-up will give you long distance comfort. Start with a hybrid or mountain bike with flat bars, add bar ends and aero-bars, use a high-rise stem (adjustable is best). Now enjoy comfort the extreme changes in body positions gives you. Flat position for upright riding, bar ends for change of hand and shoulder position...and then the magic, aero bars for a similar position road bikers use; approximately the same position as over the brake hoods. You will need a seat with the carved out center channel for this bars system to function. Best of all worlds, aero-bars for a powerful position and aero-dynamics for fast riding into the wind.
I find that I get sore knees if I'm too upright. Got a vintage road bike for my commutes and no more knee pain. I assume it's because I'm using my glutes more and quads less.
I recommend people get 2 bikes, I just had a flat this morning and swapped bikes because I didn't want to change it. I own 4 bikes, and the comfort bike is no longer used, I like to go fast, even on the comfort bike, to a fault. I crash on it due to poor braking performance and unbalanced center of gravity/wired turning radius. Personally speed is comfort, when commuting there is huge value in getting there sooner rather than later. Speed is safety around cars, it gives them more time to react, and really fast road bikes can match car speeds at various spots, making it useful and safer, and minimizing risk. It is possible to have a pretty comfortable position and still go fast, drop bars and small tires will help you go faster at times, while a more relaxed position can help some people. I dislike large seats and prefer what I have to be more comfortable, issues with being upright include preventing using your hands to balance your weight, this puts everything on the butt and I can't do that.
Yes, certainly nice to have a couple bikes if one can! I can see where you're coming from re: prioritizing speed to keep pace with cars. In an ideal world, the infrastructure wouldn't make us feel the need to keep up with cars (unless we like to)...but that's far from a reality in most places.
@@twowheelsbetter_yt it's also nice to erase the advantage of automobiles. My 5.5 mile commute is 15 minutes by car, and 18 on a bicycle DH, while being a little slower back like 25 min. The car trip home is typically 20 minutes due to traffic. Living uphill from a job is nice for that reason. 3 mile commute may be even closer. Like 6 minutes by bicycle as you can go much faster. My 3 mile commute to a previous job took 5.5 minutes averaging just over 30mph 48kph, by car it took 7 because of lights, and it was uphill. Door to door is even faster, even considering locking time you can park closer to the entrance.
