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I must say I am very into the proper way of kneading reaching to less sticky to non sticky. It certainly helps to save flour = saving food and money. There are countless youtubers keep sprinkling tons of flour just to prevent from sticking. As I have experienced myself, all that flour just make the dough dryer. Then I wonder why not just adding enough flour right in the dough at the very beginning 😂 . You have said not to add any extra flour and water to the recipe, that is so true.
Exactly right! 😁 That is the difference between knowing a recipe and knowing the principles behind it. There are too many people out there teaching things they don't fully understand themselves 😉
Hi Charlie, just wanted to say thanks for all the great videos. I gained a great understanding of dough working with a friend at work. Your page is invaluable with it's comparisons and very simple bread development techniques. I'll probably always share it (and already have) with people who are interested interested in baking on any level. Sidenotes: you have a pleasing voice, excellent editing, and none of the notes you make are ever dragged on in any way.
Wow… I’m really glad I stumbled upon your channel! This is the kind of helpful instructions and explanation videos I really need to spend time listening and watching! Your focus on the little things that matter in bread baking is amazing! I’ve been baking bread for a long time; off and on the last 15 years and you have addressed at least some of my questions that I’ve always wanted to know/ experiment. Autolyse - when and why, and correct timing to add salt, etc. At the moment, I’m trying to learn more about baking baguette with a simple, straightforward poolish recipe and I haven’t been able to come up with a technique or recipe that yield the results I prefer for a home baker. I’m hoping you can look into creating a video about baguette.
Welcome to the channel Adie! Here is a baguette recipe of mine - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-36CisvPJYXI.html It's not perfect, but it's pretty good 😁
After watching your vids..I now have a betteri derstanding of why my bread is so hit and miss.. I never thought that making bread is so sensitive to small changes... You have put me o the correct path Thank you
I just l earned of autolyse and I will be using it with my next whole wheat bread. Thanks for the video because it cleared up questions I had from reading about autolysing.
I just tried making a loaf for the first time and had a learning experience. My dough didn’t rise but I tried baking it anyways. 😂 Now I know what to do. Thank you.
I started autolyse'ing my bread dough recently and feel that it does wonders (regardless if it is white or whole wheat flour.) The past two breads that I've made (King Arthur All Purpose Bread Flour) I let autolyse for 90-120 minutes and the final bread came out much softer than normal. I'm not sure if it is the fact that I let them autolyse for longer or if I'm just finally getting the hang of proper folding (I do feel that I've finally reached a level of proficiency in folding with these past two loafs that it could have played a role as well.) Either way autolyse'ing the bread seems to just do wonders. I tell others that I do that step and they have never heard of it. I always recommend your channel to people when they ask me about my bread (I like to bring bread loaves to people, I find that people are always more friendly and helpful when you hand them a nice freshly baked loaf of bread.) Great videos as always, I was about to comment about the salt/yeast adding at the same time when I saw you linked to someone else and saw that you determined it didn't really matter when mixing them (I always mix them right on top of the bread, without any extra water, and then mix it together then throw it into the bread mixer and it seems to work just fine for me.) Hope you have a great rest of your weekend!
I give the salt a couple sprays with my water bottle. I always have a spray bottle full of filtered water in my kitchen. It's so handy I couldn't be without it. Also I do wash the bottle and change the water about once a week.
I am really curious why you don't add the salt in with the water when you autolyse? Does the salt do something to the dough that's bad? It would be great to see a side by side comparison to show if it makes a noticeable difference. Great video series, thanks for doing all this work.
I learned that is competes with the flour for water and hinders gluten development. But I have not compared it like that yet. It does sound like a good video idea! I'll add it to my list ;)
Hi Charlie! I found your channel and I’m literally binge watching your videos. I’ve started making a sourdough starter following your video. Can I ask, can I do the autolysis on top of using the leaven made with the starter? If so, what % of flour/water should I use for the autolysis? Is it with all the remaining flour/water once I use a part for the leaven? If I time it well, should I then mix leaven and autolysed doughs and add salt? Thank you so much
Hi Cristina! I'm so glad you're enjoying the videos :) Welcome to the channel! There is a very convenient thing you can do - simply autolyse together with the leaven. Just leave a splash of water behind for dissolving the salt. Because a sourdough bread rises so slowly you can safely add it to the autolyse mix without risking over fermentation like with yeasted dough. The water and flour content in the autolyse and leaven will both contribute to the total amount like normal when considering baker's percentage. Cheers!
What kind of yeast are you using? Do you prefer active dry or instant yeast in this method or does it matter? Thanks for your videos, I’m learning so much.
Hi, ChainBaker I tried this method with a 10% protein flour (the highest ratio you can find where I live) and it all just failed. It took a long time before the dough became decent. Had to add flour so the hidration was lower than initially planned (70%) in the end. In order to avoid said mess, I usually mix all ingredients from the start and leave the dough to rest overnight. I have imported some 13.8% protein flour to check the difference. Fingers crossed. Cheers for the great content!
I always put the salt in with the flour and water. I mix the flour and salt before adding the water. I haven't noticed the dough being particularly stiff. I find it quite workable. But I also don't measure, so maybe I'm adding more water to compensate or something.
I sometimes do a 'quick' autolyse with all the ingredients mixed from the get-go, but that is only to give me a little hand when I have a half sticky dough. Around 15 minutes. It does work. But to leave it for a couple of hours with the salt would be too long.
I've baked quite a bit if bread, made different doughs, and so forth. But now that I've watched a couple of your videos, I realize that I know nothing. (But I have made some delicious rolls despite my idiocy. It's just that I've never succeeded in making them that good again. With your help, maybe I will.)
For those of you who make "wheat meat", make your dough with salt. It makes a tougher dough perfect for seitan. I let it sit for 90 minutes before washing
A step saver would be to add water to the bowl then fully dissolve yeast in it. Mix in flour thoroughly, and then add salt last - s&f to incorporate fully.
I never autolyse with yeast because that would make the dough rise too quickly. Only mix flour and water, leave it to hydrate and then add the remaining ingredients.
It's not always necessary. Here are the two best bread making methods I've been using lately: Cold fermentation - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-x-8UoEgtt48.html No knead method - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1knjFj923MQ.html
Its amazing how you kneed everything by hand. Would you consider creating a video and using all the techniques you show, using a mixer? Especially with autolyse.
Thanks! I do it because everyone has a pair of hands but not everyone owns a mixer :) by all means use a mixer it's definitely better and more effective. The process would be exactly the same. If you want to convert any of my recipes to be made in a mixer, then simply mix the dough for the same amout of time on medium-low speed and that should get you the result. The only thing I must add is that my recipes normally use only use 250g of flour so your mixing bowl may be too large for it. You may have to double the recipe for you dough hook to be able to mix it effectively.
Yeah hand mixing is good to know because you get to feel the dough and how it develops while you knead it. Then when you move on to the mixer you'll be able to just touch or pull it during mixing and know exactly how long it still needs 😉
I am really enjoying your videos, just made my own receipts and baked some breads yesterday. They were really fantastic, which I owe to you! Thank you very much! I wanted to ask about this specific video and salt and yeast, I know that salt and yeast shouldn't stay together alone for long but couldn't we just dissolve both salt and yeast into the same water and then add it to the dough? It will only be a few seconds for salt and yeast to be together alone before added to the rest of the dough. I mean this would make it even easier to add them as it would be an one step procedure. Thank you in advance!
Thanks for the video, why not mix the salt with the yeast with the 2 spoons of water? You have a video showing that salt doesn't kill yeast. So why all the trouble and the two methods?
hey buddy hi, my dough shows a lot of resistance even though I do autolysis. even the longer the autolysis time or the fermentation time, the dough collects itself and does not stretch easily. is the reason for this flour? which flours do this happen?
Can I still use this autolyse method for 60%~68% hydration? I know I can put the butter around 3 mins after I started kneading, but what about sugar and powdered milk?
Hey mister baker! What do you think about some pizzaiolo that put water and salt. Disolve salt and then add yeast and then flour. I'm really curious. 🤔
I add ingredients that way in any other recipe. When it comes to this method here it is done mostly without salt and yeast to begin with. You can autolyse with salt and yeast, but that can have negative effects depending on how long it is left for.
Another concise, informative and very helpful video! I have been baking for 45 years but techniques change (stretch and fold for example) and autolyse for example was discovered in the 1970’s. Anyway, it’s very stormy here in beautiful Queensland, Australia and I am waiting for the bulk ferment to finish on my sour dough so I can binge watch your videos ! What’ve a perfect morning! Kind regards Donna
@@ChainBaker my loaf today was nothing special, just a sourdough wholemeal sandwich loaf. I am looking forward to your pumpkin bread video, it is definitely something I would bake! It would be delicious with a cheese and fruit platter. I really enjoy your recipes and your videos explain your baking process so well. Judging by your extensive knowledge and deft hands, I am guessing you are a baker or pastry chef by day?
Any sourdough loaf is a special loaf ;) I'm just a regular chef. I got into bread making whilst on a workshop in culinary school a few years back and I never stopped since.
I see a lot of recipes that say never to add salt directly to the yeast because salt kills the bacteria (yeast). However I see in all your videos you always add it directly. Does it make any difference if you add the salt after adding the yeast?
If your receipe uses milk do you add that with the autolyse? Also have you combined autolyse with the yudane method? Appreciate all your videos! Thank you
There is no need to autolyse an enriched dough or a dough that has yudane because they are already loose and stretchy. Here is a video about it - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uK3p4rBpW1g.html
Hi ChainBaker! When should we put softened butter into autolyse dough? After finished kneading the dough, or can we add butter with flour before adding water?
I'm guessing it doesn't since you said hydrate - not activate - but does the temperature of the water added to the yeast matter? Would it be a bad idea to activate the yeast with warm water rather than just hydrating it?
There is no need to activate the yeast. It will activate itself as soon as you mix it with water. I would suggest using cool water to not raise the final dough temperature 👍
There is no need to autolyse an enriched dough. Here is a video where I explain why - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uK3p4rBpW1g.html :)
I'm making a rye/white 60/40 dough at about 75% hydration. Do you think autolyse is necessary if I'm leaving my bulk dough in the refrigerator for 24 to 48 hours? It seems to me that with a long ferment there is no competing for the water between flour and salt.
Yeah for such a long proof it's not really necessary. If you are going to knead the dough by hand then an autolyse could help. I would just do it with the white flour, and then mix everything together. That could make the mixing process easier and give the dough more structure. But if it's a no knead dough and especially if you gonna bake it in a tin, then autolyse won't do much for your recipe.
Can we add it after kneading the dough? like if I want to meal prep, I'll make a big autolyse,knead it,put in the fridge,and create flatbread and pizza/yeasted bread from it. Or that would be a bad idea?
I would suggest better to make your dough, ferment it, then shape your pizza/flatbread balls and then refrigerate them. That way they will rise slowly and you can use them straight from the fridge. There is no need to autolyse a dough that will be cold proofed as it will achieve the same result because it is sitting in the fridge for so long.
Hey there. Yeah, I'm late to the party. Quick question. I make 70% hydration pizza dough a lot. And I use a 50% poolish. If I add the salt to the poolish, won't that much salt interfere with the yeast?
You can, but in most cases it defeats the purpose of using this method. Here is a video about it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uK3p4rBpW1g.html
I've seen a test for adding salt after autolyse and into it (first mixing salt with flour to get it evenly spread, then adding water). There was no difference in gluten amount. :)
This will answer your question - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lo95Ie21M2E.html When it comes to autolyse specifically, watch this - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uK3p4rBpW1g.html Lately I have just been adding fat from the get-go and it works just fine like that.
It could work I guess. But I have not tried it that way. You would probably work in the fat after the autolyse in that case. Not every dough needs an autolyse. I personally only use it for high hydration dough
hi, when you say "this dough is ready", what exactly are you basing that on? bcs if its just the gluten window test, i achieved that recently just from the autolyse, so if i do autolyse, and already have good gluten structure, what should i look out for afterthat to tell me ive done enough kneading? thanks!
That is not easy to answer as it will depend on the dough that you are making. Windowpane test is not always an indicator of a dough being mixed enough. If you are making a higher hydration bread then you want the gluten to be tighter and that sometimes requires longer mixing time. If you are making a lower hydration bread then a couple of minutes after autolyse may be enough. Again, depends on the end result. If you want the bread to expand more as it is baking, then autolyse and a short mix is perfect. If you want more tension and for it to be able to stand up and rise more vertically then skip the autolyse and mix for a longer time. There are too many variables to this so the best way to find out for a specific bread is simply by experimenting.
Sugar acts similarly to salt so I would probably add it the same way as the salt. Sprinkle it over the dough and dimple it in with a wet hand to give it a chance to dissolve whilst the dough is hydrating.
@@ChainBaker sir, you really made a newbie baker's day! you answered my questions in other video of yours, I learned A LOT from you, so blessed! Perhaps this is the final question to wrap things up. My sweet dough recipe also calls for butter. So after done autolysing, the ingredients that will be added in order would be instant yeast, sugar & salt and once they're dissolved, I add butter lastly right? I was afraid to add butter with sugar in the end, that would be creaming method right?
@@AJAA2916 It's hard to tell because I have never made anything like this dough being a high hydration loaf with egg and butter it is quite specific. The way I would do it is like this: 1. Autolyse most of the milk and the egg with all the flour. Sprinkle the salt and sugar over the dough to help with dissolving. Leave to hydrate. 2. Mix the remaining milk with the yeast. Add to the autolyse and mix well. 3. Knead for around 3 - 4 minutes. Add the butter and knead until good gluten development. 4. Continue with either with folding and cold proofing or fermenting at room temperature etc.
I don't see much of a difference when I put the salt in autolyse. Maybe because I use 2% with a sourdough starter and the fermentation process is long enough to compensate that
You don't have to proof any yeast before using it 👍 the only thing you may want to do is increase the amount of it by 1.2% in relation to instant dry yeast as active dry is not as vigorous. So if a recipe requires 3g instant dry, then you should use 3.6g active dry.
I would not have a clue. I'd suggest getting a some scales because measuring by volume is extremely inaccurate and not good for bread making at all. There must be an online converter from grams to tsp on google. Just type it in and you can convert all the measurements 👍
I just tried this and when I added the yeast to the water, it turned into a cement/paste that was impossible to pour over the dough - so I added some more water to the yeast to thin it out, and when I poured it over the dough, it was WAY too wet. I had to throw the slop I had made in the trash. 🙂 So - I guess my question is, do you know the proper ratio of water to yeast? What I tried was 2:1 (2 tablespoons water to 1 tablespoon yeast) that turned into paste. Thank you. 🙂
It gets pasty for me too. You just need to spread it on to the dough and then knead it in. It will get all mixed up at the end anyway. I don't know if there is a proper ratio. Try doubling the amount of water next time and that should do it. In that case of course you need to deduct that amount of water from the autolyse so it does not become too wet.
Pizza dough needs yeast otherwise it will just be a cracker. You definitely do need to proof it. The autolyse just hydrates the flour and helps with dough structure. There still needs to be fermentation to make the bread rise.
Thank you for the fast reply sorry about that the I question that I asked before, I just seen the Video again the time you left for the gluten to form and then u add the yeast and salt as u mentioned in both the steps am I correct, and there is another question thus salt affect the growth of the yeast?
@@ChainBaker what do you do to make your dough rise that fast? I tightly seal mine with plastic wrap and I live in a warm climate, but mine takes longer to rise
The more salt the slower the fermentation. Usually around 2% in relation to the total flour weight is standard. You can make dough without salt, but it will taste really bland.
Good question. I have never actually made bread with eggs and butter using the autolyse method. If I was going to do that then I'd probably add the egg in the beginning and work the butter into the dough after autolyse. I will definitely make a video on this 👍
I know what you meant. There is no reason to autolyse a sandwich loaf dough that is why I pointed you in the direction of that video where I show how to make a proper sandwich loaf ;) But of you really want to try it, then simply add the oil or butter after the autolyse and knead it in.
You could do that and I have done so many times, but salt and yeast are not the best of friends so having them together in such a small amount of water would mean that the yeast would be in a very high salt concentration and that may affect the fermentation. Better to be safe than sorry 👍
@@ChainBaker Should've scrolled far enough, haha. That makes sense though. I suppose if the remaining water is split apart for yeast and salt it might work, but also maybe more trouble than it's worth.
It does not. Here is a video about it - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ez95TmSKG04.html Autolyse works best without salt. The gluten has a much easier time forming without the presence of salt.
@@ChainBaker Sorry for the redundant question. I just became a subscriber about a week ago. I am so glad I did. I have learned so much that will assist me in my bread baking.
Here's a video about it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uK3p4rBpW1g.html In short - autolyse for enriched dough is pretty pointless because the fat makes the dough more extensible anyway.
@@ChainBaker I don't make any recommendation, because, A) my focus is pizza dough, B) I literally used 0.1% (10th of a percentage) of fresh yeast with 440 gr of dough (270 gr flour + 170 gr water + 0.5 gr yeast + 6 gr salt), and overnight (room temp), the dough blew up (over fermented). This is the first time I let my doughs sit outside of fridge. I usually get some decent results with resting for 2 hours in room temp + 20 hr slow/cold fermentation in the fridge. This really threw me off. I don't know if because of my place (76 F) and living in subtropical environment, or something else I'm doing wrong.
You could use even less yeast then or use cold water. Another option would be making a preferment instead of fermenting the whole dough at room temperature. Perhaps this could be useful - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RxtGNWNfXbo.html It's a 100% biga pizza dough. I like this method as it allows for a more controlled fermentation as the biga is quite predictable and pretty hard to over proof.
And here my pan pizza which I ferment overnight at room temperature like you described. Maybe you can find some useful information there ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LCzXtowxXR0.html
@@ChainBaker Thanks. I usually use 0.4 gr of "active dry" yeast for every 270 gr of flour, and with cold, overnight fermentation in the fridge. Although I'm still chasing that super strong gluten structure, the dough is workable, and the end of proofing cycle looks and feels most of the Napolitano doughs. I had also used 0.5 gr of "fresh/cake" yeast in a room temp or even cold temp water for the same 270 gr flour dough (all 60% hydration). Active dry yeast is far more potent than fresh yeast, so I thought I would do an experiment. This time, I decided to leave the dough in room temp overnight with the same measurements except increasing the hyderation to 63% (fresh yeast has 80% water itself but since it's 0.5 of gr, it shouldn't matter). It got overproofed. 🤣 My place is just weird. What I do is, I punch down the overproof doughs, fold them and roll them into doughs to ferment again. But these suckers even in the fridge balloon like crazy. I give them 4 hours then make my pizza. I thought since the gluten structure fell apart, this is going to be a tough task to make it nonsticky to the pizza peel. But I've made so many mistakes in the past 4 months, that I'm used to handling overproofed doughs. Semolina flour does wonders. Mind you, I create two doughs from 540 gr flour + 340 gr water (room temp). So this is 880 gr, divided by 2, or 440 gr per dough. With 0.5 gr of fresh yeast for a 400 gr of dough... the fermentation rate seems way too fast. I really need to invest into micro scales as my scale doesn't go below 1 gr. Also, I have tried pizza doughs with Poolish and Biga before (mix results). I would like to give Autolyse a try.
