First there was me. Then, there was Terminate. Now, Phyrexian Arena and Cultivate... These fools are slowly building an 'Anti-Nitpicking Nerds' decklist for me to CRUSH them with.
Not gonna lie, I thought you were gonna go Ariana Grave Titan on us. “First there was me. Then there was Terminate. Now there’s Arena, and that s**t’s infuriating...!!” xD
"Harmonize doesnt synergize with any green de-" Me: "but what aboud my wort-" NN: "Except Wort" Ah they got me again. That being said, excellent guide and Idefinitely need to re-evaluate my choices on some decks.
I feel like the upside on a lot of these synergyless staple type cards is that they always perform okay. A card like Phyrexian arena does what you want it to do, no bells and whistles, whereas a card like midnight reaper, though having a waaay higher ceiling, can sometimes be pretty bad when you’re not set up correctly. I still think you should go with these synergy cards over the “staple” cards and just try to make sure these incorrect set-ups never happen but it’s an interesting thing to think about
I think one reason people don't understand how a card like Terminate can be worse than a card like Ravenous Chupacabra is because they are used to a format like cube, where a spell's utility is based heavily on how versatile or efficient it is. In EDH, synergy is king because your whole deck revolves around one card that you always have access to. In EDH, efficiency is secondary to synergy. Though of course, the exception is CEDH, where efficiency becomes paramount again.
Bro I be watching/listening the HELLLLL out this channel. I love the "Homies just discussing" vibe of these videos. Nothing too extra, no outrageous memes (Nothing against it I actually love these), & "if you know you know" style jokes. Great videos always
What makes cards like Harmonize worth playing in my opinion is no matter your board state or where you are in the game, you always get the effect. For example: Sure Shamanic Revelation and Slate of Ancestry have synergy and could draw you more cards in the right deck but they don't help you after a board wipe. I would play all 3 them (Also Beast whisperer and Guardian Project since they're auto-includes pretty much) to guarantee the card draw when everything runs according to play and also when things go south. Same with cards like Fact or Fiction, Sign in Blood and similar reliable effects. They might not have as much synergy but I think there's a certain value to cards that reliably do what you want them to
I've been paying more attention to Wood Elves thanks to you guys. And I've found that the two original editions (Portal and Exodus) have gorgeous art by Rebecca Guay, seemingly pulled out of Changeling the Dreaming (that also featured her art).
Thank you guys! This video helped me tune the deck I'm just finishing, bc I ran both Cultivate and Kodama's Reach, and I have changed them for Wood Elves and another elf that also ramps (4 mana, a 3/1, when it enters and when it attacks)
I love the "Empyrial Archangel" art in the background lol it's literally my favorite overall card for what it does and art. Also "One with the Machine" is an awesome Artifact specific draw spell. I love the channel thanks.
I will say, my Thrasios/Vial smasher deck is super happy with cultivate/kodama's exactly because they do the thing and then sit in the yard - because then I can exile them for my big delve spells. Niche situations and all that, but man they're so helpful!
I actually like adding green signets to decks so that I can play them when I don't draw another green source. Feels very risky to have most of my ramp require green mana and the rest unable to make green mana.
I have a corner case for cultivate and Kodamas reach. My Borborygmus Enraged deck has 20 ramp cards, it needs to be fast so I can play him out. 90% of the ramp aims not to search for lands (keep them in the deck to find and put in my hand) but cultivate is just putting it straight into my hand to deal the damage then and there! It fits outside the vacuum 😂 The other funny takeaway I had was you both dont like green signets! Shocking. In my 3 coulor above decks I exclusively put the green ones because they are 2 mana ramp and I find the core of my decks become green (in the ramp and card draw. Green is so important in the early game and I find other coulors (fixing wise) before the late game because I got green early. Just different conclusions I guess. I used to find your channel to competitive focused but I just subscribed because I hve found your target audience has started to include me. (I play powerful casual in the 7's and 8's but avoid combos and the ways ofjumping past this power level because I like a game where I dont know the outcome before I start.
The thing about these Staples is deck building, where you want to try something, you put the Staples in the deck to try It then after you've seen If the goal of your deck is working you change then for the more synergistc ones. The Idea is that the Staples are already in your binder so you can test, while you might not have that more specific synergistc one.
This is honestly a really helpful video because I'm building a very niche deck focusing on a partner pairing of Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh and Reyhan, Last of the Abzan. +1/+1 counters with aristocrats subtheme is surprisingly hard to build and I'm still cutting and adding cards that I think are interesting or would be good, so I think helping with synergies will be great
@@loganator326 oh lol, he’s just favourite aristocrats commander. That’s a tough deck to make, you could do tokens cause you can sac them, and then use the rest to go wide. The green guy from rivals that makes saperlings could be good cause they make tokens and buff them, but that’s all I got. Good luck on the deck though
With so many cards in magic it is a fun puzzle game to figure out which cards most synergistically work with your deck theme/commander ... love it 🙌 to make the most powerful is so much less fun than making a deck of odd cards that’s just work wonderfully together, so much more satisfying
Loving the content guys! I'm really looking forward to putting your advice to good use in Alela artifact/self mill, Kodama/Ravos Enchantress, and Krenko.
Glad to know I’m not the only one that thinks Chromatic Lantern is overvalued in 1-3 colored decks. Thnx for them vid guys, even though I’m newly subscribed (about a month now), I’m liking the content.
wheels are fun, makes the games way more exciting. plus if you have some graveyard shenanigans its also good. and cultivate is soooo good for people that don't have perfect ramp cards, fixes colors and guarantees land drops, and cheap!
I feel like a lot of the problem with building your deck so that all the cards rely on other cards is that if you get wiped, you have no way to come back. You have to start over. You may as well concede. Pretty sure almost no removal will be better than a Vindicate. The versatility alone makes it one of the best in the game. People don't like land destruction, but sometimes there is a land that is a problem that needs dealt with. Vindicate allows that.
Deck concept- based on my pet card, Collected Conjuring. Dragon's Helix Combo- Dragon's Approach, Spellweaver Helix, and Collected Conjuring. If you are familiar with any of those cards then truly you understand that this jank combo must be fire. Consider a play pattern like this: Turn 1: scry land or Faithless Looting Turn 2: Cathartic Reunion (throw Collected Conjuring and Dragon's Approach in the trash) Turn 3: Spellweaver Helix [Imprint Bad CoCo and Relentless Lava Spike (Dragon's Approach)] Turn 4: Relentless Lava Spike-Triggers the Helix (free Collected Conjuring) and reveal/ cast another 2 Relentless Spikes and get another 2 triggers. Repeat until brick, empty deck, or you beat the opponent(s). Artifact tutors can get the helix, your deck should be full of dragon's approach and as for finding the Collected Conjuring... Uhhhhh IDK I don't play CEDH
Ive been finding myself watching more and more and subscribed. I still like my green signets amd talismans though lol. Cheap ramp that lets me double cast ramp and a cheap spell in the same turn. (mass) land destruction is also fair game for me, so lands arent safe.
I fully agree with the deck building philosophy you guys are talking about here. Don't pick cards in a vacuum. Instead look at how many other little synergies and advantages you could get if you draw this card with others in your deck that you could use together. If you get every card to have some synergy with the majority of the rest of your deck... then it almost doesn't matter what you draw, your nearly guaranteed to draw into some playable synergies to advance your game plan. Like you guys said, most times a sorcery or instant one time use spell is going to sit in your graveyard and do nothing for the rest of the game after you play it, but even those might become fantastic synergies in a spellslinger deck where instants and sorceries matter and you likely have spell recursion. That's when you would want to play those, but like you've been saying you need to pay attention to what your deck wants to see that.
1: Phyrexian Arena is trash. 2: Midnight Reaper requires board presence. In addition run some straight up card draw. 3: there is no 3, I love your show.
Idk if you guys have done a video like this before, but it would be fun to see if there are any cards, strategies, commanders etc where you don't agree with eachother on how good/bad they are. Since you seem to be on the same page about most stuff :D
Another great video guys, thanks for putting this together. Can I ask you to do a video or maybe a series? As a new player I watch your video's and see you recommend one card over another (1 cmc elf rather than cultivate for example) but mechanically I do not understand why it is these decisions are bad. It is easy for me to just say "oh ya they know so I am going to do" but to truly make a player better, one must first understand the mechanics of what makes a card better than another. I would truly appreciate you making a video (a series would be amazing since I have yet to see anyone do one) on the actual mechanics of the game and how they interact outside the vacuum and how it is put into practice (your elf rather than cultivate.)
I usually build with a template in mind: 12 Ramp Spells 11 Card Draw and so an on... Then, when I choose my ramp spells y put 6 staple cards (Sol Ring, Arcane Signet...) but for the other 6 cards i look for the ones that have the most Synergy or Share a Gimmick with my deck. For Example, in an Enchantress type deck; Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground.
I'm back to Krosan Grip in mono-green. Aetherflux Reaervoir and Walking Ballista are common enough. Nature's Claim, Unravel the Aether, Deglamer, Krosan Grip, Force of Vigor, Song of the Dryads and Beast Within are my removal now.
My Chromatic Lantern turns my Glacial Chasm back into a mana source. For situations like that, it can be 2 for 1 (or possibly better) ramp - besides just letting you turn off your brain on how to tap for mana. I know 3 mana rocks have fallen from favor, but I feel like where it plays into a pillow fort strategy (or for any other non mana producing land), it's still worth an include. I agree it's not a windmill slam auto include, but I think it's worth considering for corner cases and not only as a band aid for a sub par mana base.
Hii! I love your videos! You always give me so many great ideas and have actually helped me make the concept of my Boros deck and flesh it out more! Thank you so much!
@@NitpickingNerds It uses Feather but not in the traditional manner. She is a card engine mainly that banks of cards like Auriela, Sword of Feast and Famine, Aggeivated Assault and a few others to combo off with infinite damage, combat steps, mana and whatnot. Feather is there just to draw a butt load of cards at any time I need with things like bandage, expedite and cards like those. Another small bit of the deck is the mana ramp with cards like Legion's Landing, Dowsing Dagger and all those cards that flip into lands. I finally have boros ramp, card draw, and removal perfected... hopefully it can hold a candle to my friends Muldrotha deck XD doesn't help that I'm gonna be giving him a few cards here soon to help it out. Main two that I'm looking at giving him are Glimpse the Unthinkable and Fleet Swallower.
I see your point, thought one often plays a deck that is not "all in" with one theme. Like is creature based but does not have 35 of then or high recursion, and in those cases the Cultivates or Putrefy are necessary. For example I play Belbe Wurms and besides Riskar Expertise and Return to the wildspeaker there is not many other draw spell with high synergy...
I love the art on the new Kodama's Reach and the alternative art of Cultivate from core set 2021. Its a guilty pleasure to use them in my decks but I guess you are right, in my landfall deck I want the lands to enter and not sit in my hand, so I guess Harrow is better.
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are actually great, simply because they ramp you while securing your next land drop. Outside of cEDH, I personally play both in everything I can. The problem with typical ramp like Nature's Lore or similar, is that they only replace themselves. Cultivate is a +1 in card advantage, even if it's just a land. It's not for every deck, but it's also not just for lands matter decks.
I’m coming around to cutting cultivate/kodamas reach. I still have one in a 3 color deck. I’m attached because every time I’ve ever cast cultivate, I never had mana troubles for the rest of the game. I’ve been short on lands after casting a three visits before. That said, I’ve had more success with the 1-2 mana ramp packages for sure
Way2go bz you're riding a line into higher level thinking when it comes to Magic. I've been playing for a year now and it's easy for me to see how like one card is better than another. But it sure is hard to do what you're asking me to do which is like have my entire deck memorized and see the possible Corner or non corner case synergies within my deck. Thanks for the video I'm going to watch it more times until I get it keep on with the awesomeness.
Can you offer alternatives for read the bones please? In black red and white with equipment/voltron synergies. the deck already runs night's whisper, jeska's will, pure steel paladin, and other staples
I don’t play budget and I still consider read the bones to be a good card when playing a combo deck, because it allows you to see four cards. If the first two aren’t gravecrawler or a tutor, the next two might be.
would love to hear more draw options in green... (harmonize seems way better than that 6 cmc spirit even in an elf deck)... would love a stronger draw package than a couple cards. as well as read the bones, What other draw options would you suggest in mono black or mono green?
For mono black, Sign in Blood, Read the Bones, and Foreboding Fruit are my first go to cards. Village Rites and Bankrupt in Blood are great in sacrifice decks
I'd like to know what I should replace cultivate with in a 5 color deck that is all about getting to 5 mana, one of each. Drop it on turn 3, tutor out 2 basic lands and slam the commander on turn 5. In something like the prismatic bridge you also don't want any cheap creatures for ramp so you only hit the big finishers. And artifact mana is far more likely to be removed.
I play an illuna deck (Godzilla Theme) and i ramp with sorceries only because they can't get hit by it's ability. Best way to play it is get landramp as lands won't get hit by it's ability. My 99 is a mix of mutate creatures and Spirits and Humans from the kamigawa block. In a deck like this cultivate and kodamas reach are perfect ramp as most of the time you will get to play both lands & one of them will be untapped. In my opinion ramping with lands will be used more in the future as it's the only safe way of ramping if you have a high cmc deck. Even though high cmc decks usually underperform, i think they will be alot of fun in the future edh meta. You might only be able to put lands into play for the 3 first turns, but after that you have a great and safe manabase that lets you outpower your opponents if they are not careful. This brings a nice dynamic into the playgroup :)
Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are good in Gishath. You don't want mana dorks, so you are limited to mostly instant and sorcery based ramp. Yes, you run three visits and skyshroud claim, and all the other good ramp spells. I got 13 ramp spells in the deck.
I love building like this, so much so that I usually go too far. The number of times I've needed instant speed interaction in my all permanent persistent petitioner muldrotha deck is more than I'd like to admit.
Aren't x draw spells some of the best win conditions if you can make infinite mana? I don't think you wanna play walking ballista if it doesn't synergize with your deck
I know this is an old video, and I may not get a response, but what is your guy's reasoning for Vindicate being unplayable? Is it because of the price tag and the fact it is not instant speed, besides the fact that it doesnt really synergize with a lot of strategies? The ability to take out literally anything (that is not indestructible) seems really good to me. I'm just genuinely curious on what thought process you guys had for the card! Maybe Im just missing something as a newer Commander player
Phyrexian Arena doesn't require other cards to draw. Harmonize is 3 cards no matter what, if you focus on a creature to draw well commander has a lot of removal.
Tring to find the argument for playing Nature's Claim (which is just a synergyless staple) and not Terminate. Given, Terminate is mana value 2 (look how I adapted to the new rulz) which definetely puts it below, let's say, StoP, but it hits creatures, which are, as you don't tire to stress, the MOST common card type in EDH. It also has no restrictions (except for Hexproof, Prot and the likes). The most important part about Terminate is the instant speed - cmc 2 instant speed creature removal in a format that plays around at least one creature (usually) per player is just the interaction most decks crave. I feel your point for cards like Deadly Rollick, but they are only good IF you have your commander - so if you have a strong commander, chances are high that Deadly Rollick is not free because your opponents play interaction. Synergy interaction is nice, but hard to find as soon as you want instant speed. And the higher the power level, the more important is instant speed to shut down combos (you also point out the importance of instant speed, so I am really confused how much you like Daretti). While synergy is fine, you need to be able to stop opponents, and there aren't too many ways to do that for most strategies. You need to keep board domination (like Daretti) and Interaction (like Terminate) apart - they just don't fill the same slot.
We might just disagree on the power rankings of removal spells, we have a fair number of things higher than Terminate (Deadly Rollick and Chaos Warp for example)
Chromatic lantern certainly doesn’t go in many decks but I wanna make a huge creatures deck with Jodah, archmage eternal so I’m probably gonna buy one for that deck because that deck needs access to wubrg at all times for it to work. And I I can have perfect fixing I could cast 2 big stupid creatures in a turn realistically. Imagine casting 2 eldrazi titans on turn 9 where your only ramp is 1 artifact. That’s sounds beautiful
I agree with everything except removal. If you’re getting into the stronger meta, your removal NEEDS to be instant speed. If it’s not instant it’s not a response and if you’re not responding to a threat then you’re losing.
I can think of one instance where cultivate is good; Ayula, or other green commanders that only cost 2. In general, you want to be playing your commander on turn 2, so you don't want the 2 cost options like farseek. The one mana dorks might still be better, but you still need more than just those, and if you're playing it on turn three anyway, you might as well get an extra land in hand.
For removals, I only accept it if it says "target permanent" or "target nonland permanent", anything that specifies a type, not even gonna consider. Oh and they should be instants too.
What do you think of Flash flood type cards... 1 blue mana for destroy red permanent or return mount to hand (odd legends card) ... conditional but cheap single target removal in multi player especially in decks you can bring back spells from the graveyard throughout the game... terminate isn’t a card I really like at all as want the permanent removal more than just hitting creatures... but both conditional ... of course hydroblast/blue elemental is probably better but similar affect in a card seemingly unplayed
While this is good advice, something I always need to be careful of in commander decks is making too many cards reliant on my deck's strategy. I like to think about what my deck will do throughout a game. For example, lets say I have a green token deck. The typical flow of my deck might be: Get out a token generator > create tokens > untap with the tokens > boost the tokens > swing with the tokens When putting in synergistic cards, I'll want to avoid putting in too many cards which synergize with the end of that flow since it takes a lot of work to get there. Shamanic Revelation is amazing in this deck but I would likely still also want Harmonize for when I'm stuck at the early parts of this flow and haven't generated tokens. I wouldn't want to replace all my removal spells with creature based ones since those require I get through a lot of the flow of my deck before they're good. I'll definitely want to consider replacing generic removal for it, but not all of it. Creature which ramp me would actually be really great for this deck though, since it helps the deck go wide with creatures. It synergizes early in the deck's flow and doesn't require being further in the flow in order to do anything. Another factor to consider is that your opponents will also run removal. If your opponents stop your deck from doing its thing and keep you early in your deck's flow, what can you do? I've played some bad commander decks and one common thing among them is that they don't do anything unless they get their specific strategy going. Many have a high costed commander that, if it gets destroyed, all the cards in the deck stop functioning well because they're all relying on it. These are some good tips but consider how a card synergizes and ensure your deck works even if your opponent's prevent you from getting your strategy going.
i play green signets in my tasigur deck because i can use them for my isochron scepter combo and search them with tribute mage and 2cmc transmute spells
The comment section of videos is always full of advice from professionals like CEDH world champions. I've also seen 3200 rated chess grand masters, world champion video gamers, Olympic gold medallists and much much more all providing their professional advice free of charge and letting you know just how shit your opinion is compared to their pristine and flawless knowledge. It's quite generous really, people would pay massive bucks for advice like that.
NN - The age old analogy applies to the advice you are giving: You are playing chess, the pushback you are getting are from those playing checkers. Both are perfectly fine games, but the former is on a different level than the latter. To continue the analogy, it won't be until the checker players can learn to play chess will they really understand. They hear your advice, but they don't really understand it.
Cards like terminate, bedevil, and putrefy don't need synergy. They are silver bullets that can save you at instant speed. Yes, in a deck focused on reanimation, Ravenous Chupacabra, shriekmaw, and any of the forced sacrifice creatures have higher synergy, but you can rarely cast those at instant speed. When someone combos off, if all your removal is sorcery speed, it's over. Also, don't go making a reanimation deck where all you do is reanimate fleshbag marauder. It's extremely boring to play against, and has been done a million times before. Reanimate a huge demon, or some unplayable blue leviathan instead.
Honestly, so many of the cards you mentioned are or were in my Thantis deck and I'm not sure what to do with it at this point. I'd love if you did some sort of deck doctor!
I rewinded a few times but still cant catch if they offered something in place of windfall. I have a deck thats all about discarding cards and so windfall actually fits pretty well, the thing i was looking for was like the best refill your hand effects, because that is one issue ive been having is being down to nearly an empty hand and having to hope I topdeck a refill, aside from cards like Seagate Restoration, mystic remora, ryhsitc study, I cant seem to find many that have a much better effect than windfall for the same or cheaper mana value. Any help would be appreciated 🙏
