How To Airbrush Artist Acrylic Tube Paints For Plastic Models & Gunpla - Plus Room Update

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In this video I show you how to airbrush artist acrylic tube paints. Once thinned these paints go on nice and dry smooth. Plus they're pretty durable.
I used my homemade thinner on these and it worked great. See below for the video on my DIY acrylic thinner
My how to make your own thinner video • How To Make Your Own A...
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16 июл 2021

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Комментарии : 441

@johnhopkins6565 Год назад

So a good way to get true 50/50 is to use displacement. Put the thinner in first and measure to something like 1 or 2 millimeters. Then squeeze in your acrylic. 50/50 will raise the fluid level to twice what it was.

@LordNerfherder Месяц назад

Ah somrone with a working brain. I must have used too many thinners, sprays and enamels indoors.

@budavargas 3 года назад

Hexaprint here... Thank you very much for featuring my work! Regards from Chile!

@jasonlizotte4007 3 года назад

I loved that holder, you do great work. Is there a way of purchasing a rack? I dont use social media so not sure if you have anything else. I appreciate if you could let me know, thank you very much. Jason

@budavargas 3 года назад

@@jasonlizotte4007 Hello Jason. Of course! Feel free to send me an email to ravargash@gmail.com. Regards!

@ScottEDyer 3 года назад

@@budavargas Do you make the stl available anywhere?

@keithorlando6652 2 года назад

Unable to locate you on Instagram, please let me know what your account name is.

@bigfart6720 3 года назад

Thank you so much for doing videos on craft acrylic paint, I feel like they are perfect for people who can't afford to pay for the more expensive model paints, especially how much paint comes in 1 tube

@mdubg01 3 года назад

After watching his video on thinning the apple barrel and folklore brands I’ve been painting with them and had great results

@josuecaleb5053 11 месяцев назад

@@mdubg01 me too, and it works great. I will be buying some actual airbrush paint since I'm building car model kits and need nicer paints for the body. Everything else like interiors and frame components are painted with craft acrylics.

@KunaiKrazy 10 месяцев назад

@@mdubg01I've done the same as well with great results specifically with the multi surface acrylics. They don't seem to need primer which is oh so nice. Regular cheaper acrylics? Either more coats or a top coat. Still figuring that one out with my RG Wing Zero.

@Italy37612 3 года назад

Great setup. Thanks for all the reviews you do. They are really helpful for us modelers.

@claudenewbolt2659 2 года назад

MORE OF THIS COOL DUDE'S WORK WITH ACRYLIC TUBE PAINTS, I LOVE IT!

@toddw6716 Год назад

This video is like therapy, I have watch it a few times because it relaxes me.

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

Thank you my friend, I except any type of praise 😉

@anthonyfoley3401 3 года назад

Yet again, another excellent, well-detailed and presented report. Thanks.

@planettoybitz4043 Год назад

Wow! I never thought they can be used to air brush! I have a bunch just sitting on the side. Thank you for making this tutorial!!! 🤩🤩🤩

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

Anytime my friend

@RecklessFables 4 месяца назад

I always thought there was something about the pigment not being ground finally enough that would make it inappropriate for an airbrush. I guess I was misinformed.

@KrippledKracka 2 года назад

I've been so scared to try these thick tube acrylics, but I think you've convinced me to try and save some money!! Thanks again for the great quality videos!!

@Kyle-wb7wx Год назад

Thank you so much for making this video! This is the best video I've seen for alternative paints to "airbrush" paint.

@Toreone 2 года назад

The Felix Unger of airbrush workstation cleanliness 👍🏼. Love these videos. Keep it going.

@vyreaksovann407 Год назад

just got back into airbrushing and I'm glad I found your video. thanks for sharing

@treborrrrr 3 года назад

Man, the airbrush paint manufacturers must be laughing all the way to the bank. Those paints are insanely expensive compared to the amount you're getting.

@megamanx2006 2 года назад

Good evening! I just started watching your channel since I needed to airbrush craft paints, and literally stopped my projects just to watch the helpful videos you have. Thank you so much and I just subscribed!

@heksr2059 6 месяцев назад

Your video is my dream come true I think I found my new hobby thank you .

@barbatosrex9473 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome my friend

@studiodorobo 3 года назад

I really loved how you showed us "whats new" before you got into the meat and potatoes of the video. I an now looking forward to future videos of items you recently picked up.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Thanks my friend and thanks for watching 👍

@kenhanson1819 2 года назад

Great workshop tour and paint demo!

@davidpittman1009 3 года назад

Great work … love the how to vids on the Acrylic paints and the nail polish paints … very helpful…

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Thank you

@spavliskojr 2 года назад

ive airbrushed tube acrylic paints for paintings and illustrations, but never thought to use them on model kits like that. very cool results. Also noticed you have GS cement on your bench- I have always used those for watchmaking gluing crystals and bezels. Always thought that it would be good for model kits too.

@MrCinpro Год назад

Thanks for this video. I have many of these paints that I have been brushing on. now I can spray them. FYI, I love your little Haro in the background.

@robertocampos150 2 года назад

I have been using acrylic art paints (liquitex, golden, W&N, etc) for 25 years. All paints adhere to the plastic perfectly, no primer is needed. The best thinner is distilled water and grain alcohol (40/60) and a few drops of delimonene. mixes easily.

@tomassoejakto 2 года назад

is it alright to use tamiya acrylic thinner as well?

@ae-ae 8 месяцев назад

All of them are able to paint fine lines without running around? What about resistance to nail scratching and the possibility to fine sanding without peeling off? tks Com todas essas vc consegue fazer linhas finas sem escorrer? E a resistência a arranhões leves? Dá pra lixar um uma lixa de polimento sem descascar? vlw

@briansrcadventures1316 3 года назад

That's an interesting test, using artists acrylics!

@acandnine12 3 года назад

So, I just wanted to leave this comment on how fantastic I think your videos are. I recently subscribed to you after seeing one of your vids using black flash color shift paint. This link...Scale Model Tips - Testing Cheap $1 Craft Store Acrylic Paint To Airbrush Your Kits With ..is one of your videos showing us how to thin with windshield wiper fluid. I am so new to airbrushing and you are mind blowing with the content that you make available to your viewers. Thank You from the bottom of my heart for all that you have done and hopefully will continue to do for us. YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Wow, such wonderful and kind words. Thank you for that. You made my day. I'm working on my next video right now when your comment came up. Thank you for watching, people like you make this all worth while. Have a great day

@JohnPol 3 месяца назад

Wow you have more paints than some hobby shops

@barbatosrex9473 3 месяца назад

Well my friend, this video is 2 years old, I know have 4 times the amount of paints now 😀

@kenmorris2858 Год назад

Very informative and helps a lot. Hope your Bruins have a fantastic season in the NHL.

@ZedLeppelin1989 2 года назад

Wow, I'm so glad I had to wait over 11 mins to see anything related to the main title of the video.....good show

@shawng7902 Год назад

2nd great practice. After watching you clean the lids and rims so much, it kills me to see another video where they dont! No more using pliers to open frozen up paint jars. 1 of the best things I've learned.

@smoothlight3567 2 года назад

Impressive demo, thanks 😊

@robsheaffer3525 2 года назад

Thanks for the video. Very informative. Great job!

@benjaminliptonjr9329 2 года назад

HOLY PAINT COLLECTION!!! damn dude thank you so much for your videos man! Youve helped me immensly become a newb airbrusher!

@AngelOrtiz1 Год назад

I always use tube acrylis since long time ego Golden brand is a nice one fine pigment particles that flows great if you have problems with thick paints use glicerine un expensive to improve the flow, great videos bro. only one truly has help me when I was loooking for portable compressors don't gime wrong, this is how I got to your channel.

@markjolyn94 Год назад

Loving the colors and ease of mixing. May have to buy some of these. The yellow as sprayed looks like Canary Yellow

@boundarywaterz 2 года назад

Love your channel...thanks for helping us out!

@barbatosrex9473 2 года назад

Thanks buddy 👍

@chauffeurmarco Год назад

Gee! I love your collections. Nice room.

@redhog1arkie395 3 года назад

Great setup!

@modelcar1589 Год назад

I would love to spend one day in that room 👍🏿

@Cbtrainnut 2 года назад

Another great Video Rex! My wife has tons of these paints I can use now lol! Just want to say I have learned how to airbrush the right way because of your awesome videos. I am a toy train guy and can use all this info for painting my custom train cars. I have also set my airbrush station much like yours. I never waisted a penny because of your guidance! Thanks again!

@barbatosrex9473 2 года назад

Thanks buddy, that means a lot to me 👍

@jenniferwhitewolf3784 2 года назад

There is a lot of superb advice here.. I have been airbrushing over 50 years in RR hobby, and still learn something new right here. THIS is the THE airbrush and paints show to learn from👍👍

@tonyperez4791 3 года назад

Cool stuff ! Hope you have a great/safe week !

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

You too buddy, thank you 😀

@jonsaircond8520 2 года назад

Once you use a tube of the masters touch, the tubes are all clear the colors you see are the actual paint. Great video

@jethro1260 6 месяцев назад

I know that this video is from two years ago but this is the first time that I've seen it and wow it's excellent. Thanks

@barbatosrex9473 6 месяцев назад

Thank you my friend

@kennethcrickmore7858 Год назад

When I did my testers 1/48 scale SR-71 model kit in the '80's the titanium mix recommended was a few drops of orange in a (standard size) bottle of testers silver metallic for a true titanium color for the 'exposed' titanium parts of the plane..

@DisgruntledPigumon 2 года назад

More paint than the hobby section of my local store… and I’m in Tokyo. On a side note, you really should have more than two supports for each of those wide shelves. I’d do 4. Especially since they fell. You don’t need poles or anything, just more vertical rails and more under shelf supports. There should be more studs in between the rails you already mounted to add more rails. :)

@mdubg01 3 года назад

Just another brand of paint I’m gonna get to try just like the apple barrel ones you did lol. Great video

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Thanks buddy 👍

@RackwitzG Год назад

I've been fiddling with such paints for plastic models. I guess I've been applying too much paint with each coat, trying to get coverage. The paint pools up on me. I need to get some flowimprover too and I should be set.👍 Thanks for showing this.

@martinj9251 2 года назад

Very good information. So much cheaper this way. Thank you

@barbatosrex9473 2 года назад

It really is a great alternative

@Thr33BeanRaceway Год назад

Great tips, thanks!

@rodericklippert1332 Год назад

I was at hobby lobby 2 weeks ago to get paint to begin airbrushing the model cars I have been accumulating. Just had a birthday (72) and am getting back in the hobby. Hobby Lobby has a Master's Touch 48 count of 22ml(0.7fl oz) acrylic paint tubes like you used in this video. Regular price marked by the mfgr was $69.99. Their price was $35.99! I bought it simply because of the huge variety of colors. Can hardly wait to start playing with them. 😅

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

That's a great deal, good find there my friend

@Galdorx 2 года назад

Great setup, and lucky that have so much paint. :Di hope my setup gonna be like that in the future. Im new in Airbrush..

@brothergrimaldus3836 Год назад

If you're having a durability problem after thinning heavier bodied paints, use some GAC-200. Brings the hardness right back up. (A drop or 2 after you've thinned it)

@airbrushken5339 11 месяцев назад

I found that Gac-200 is not a very flexible polymer medium...something I learned on my grand son's glider model...I found hair line cracks (Not bad!). Here in Australia th UV is high, so I'm not really sure.

@dundasjunctionmodelr.r-jam8267 3 года назад

Great video, going try this

@scooterdoughmas3012 Год назад

hoo chit lookin @that Datsun on the bench sweet dere rex

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

I love Z cars

@THROTTLEPOWER 3 года назад

Nice video, thanks for sharing!

@norbertnagy4582 2 года назад

wow your room looks like a paint shop :D

@stephenbridges2791 3 года назад

I have one of those Renegade Series airbrushes. The Velocity. It is a gunmetal version of the Krome. 0.21 mm needle. Excellent value airbrush. I have often wondered if one could use tube acrylics. Obviously you can. Very useful video! I'm going to try some USA Art Supply tubes off Amazon. Their oils work well on models. Really cool ideas you have.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Thank you. Ands thanks for watching

@vermis8344 Год назад

I really want a Badger paint stirrer now. Seriously though, I'm impressed by those results, especially the difference in the copper over different primers. I'm planning a wargaming project where I _might_ want to basecoat everything with burnt sienna. If I do, I might want to head to the pound shop and buy a tube if it (same tube as those Artist's Touch basic paints) for 99p, instead of using up my tiny £6 bottle of Liquitex burnt sienna ink...

@fefernan87 10 месяцев назад

Thank you so much for this!!

@barbatosrex9473 10 месяцев назад

You're welcome Fernando

@GTlv4u Год назад

....keep a paper towel handy... I wrote that one down. Good tip. rambling and rambling, but informative in between. Better than what I can do

@juniorworkshop1918 3 года назад

Nice video 👍👍 thank you for sharing

@minivipers 2 года назад

great room man... It just perfect...

@barbatosrex9473 2 года назад

Thanks buddy 👍it's my Fortress Of Solitude

@Sigmagnat650 2 года назад

As always, awesome advice. The hobby is spendy enough and if you can save money without sacrificing too much, all the better. Any thoughts on doing a video about other alternatives for stuff like varnish? I know a lot of car guys use Pledge Floor Polish in place of gloss (a big no-no in some circles)? As far as these paints go, I am curious about the true color of the pigmentation. Some paints don't have pure pigments and so using kindergarten color theory can lead you astray. Did you happen to get curious and see if you could customize the colors a bit?

@vintagecollector788 3 года назад

Hell yeah METAL 🤘🤘🤘

@jimbe01 3 года назад

Suggestion - You might consider glueing/mounting neobidium type magnet(s) to the bottom of that “Amazon” airbrush holder, for use with a metallic type plate/base on your workbench. Provides a firm, yet moveable/relocatable holder type installation. Also, Thanks for the filter material link. P.S. very nice and extensive “work” location/set up.👍

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Great idea. I already use a Mr Hobby magnetic airbrush holder but didn't even think of adding magnets to the new one 👍

@tomdelaney19464 3 года назад

Great info, from thinning/ psi/method....I've learned quite alot from you...thank you fellow metalhead. Can you do washes and weathering?

@adrianwilliams763 Год назад

Wow. Impressive.

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

Thank you my friend 👍

@andrewpalm2103 3 года назад

Thanks very much for this video! I've recently been trying Golden Airbrush Medium alone to thin down craft acrylics and Vallejo Game Color for airbrushing. Now I'll have to try it with an old tube of Liquitex I've had sitting around for years. The Golden stuff is a bit expensive, but it supposedly already has a flow improver added and doesn't break down the acrylic polymers. The downside is that it seems to take at least 24 hours for complete drying to happen; but I tend to put down layers of paint that are too heavy due to my ineexperience (or lack of patience).

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

I got tired of waiting as it started to take too long to finish a video so I bought a large food dehydrator that I put my parts in and cured them in about a half hour. It's a gmae changer. Check out my video on it. I'll be doing an update on it soon

@SigurdDecroos 3 года назад

Golden stuff works like a charm. Specially the high flows through the airbrush. I hope to see a review of them on this channel some day :)

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

@@SigurdDecroos please attach a link here for the actual paint line up you want me to test. There's so many I want to get the actual one you speak of here

@SigurdDecroos 3 года назад

@@barbatosrex9473 It would be my pleasure! Most of these paints are single, very fine pigments. All characteristics of their paint can be found on their website for each individual color and paint line. Just click on a color from the links below and you'll see what I mean. High flows are the 'straight airbrush' line and can be found here: goldenpaints.com/products/colors/high-flow Be sure to check their fluorescent paint, some claim these fluos are the best available. P.S.: I also use fluids line as you can paint these with your brush as well: goldenpaints.com/products/colors/fluid (can be used in an airbrush with Airbrush Medium from Golden Paints which Andrew Palm already mentioned).

@robertjohnston8290 3 года назад

That’s quite the stash of kits. Do you ever have time to build anything with all of your videos? These videos are extremely helpful. Nobody I can find has tested more types of paints than you.

@BennyCFD 3 года назад

Brilliant review.............I was wondering how it would work with some acrylic polyurethane like Createx 4030 or 4050.

@brianchong4134 Год назад

A fellow Nissan/Datsun guy! Very cool.

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

Love the Z

@judsonbaker4628 10 месяцев назад

Wow that’s a ton of paint options

@erickshobbiesncustoms5775 3 года назад

I own a 280Z, smoothest ride ever!

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

You Da man👍Love those cars

@suchanjv 3 года назад

Now that's an amazing collection of paints! Appreciate your reviews! What metal bands do you usually listen to?

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Prog Metal, Power Metal, Thrash and some Death. Hard to pick one as I have them all. Anything like Dream Theater, European metal from Sweden comes to mind.

@yenyensorete4775 3 года назад

Thank you for this, can we see a handbrush test for the cheap acrylic paints/tube?

@bigchef2112 3 года назад

Great review.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Thank you 👍

@toddw6716 2 года назад

Great video thanks

@kimijonghighball9626 Год назад

Waited for the cleaning part at the end. Well maybe I’ll look back for it.

@barbatosrex9473 Год назад

Check out my video on cleaning Vallejo from your airbrush. The trick is to brew a hot cup of water and use that super hot water for cleaning it out

@dwells77 2 года назад

Hi Barbatos Rex, your videos have helped me up my paint game exponentially! Thank you! Also, I could not find the Plaid FX colors test. Did you not put up that video yet?

@heybabe8438 2 года назад

Thanks for this instructional video quick question when do you have time to build and where do you display !

@hermansims304rcrawlingteam3 2 года назад

Thank you for all the airbrush information you give budd how well dose it hold up on say arc body thanks

@modelcar1589 Год назад

I got to start investing in Moore paint

@MarvinConman 2 года назад

I got a question: how durable are these acrylics against touching or during transport? Also how long should I dry them for?

@troyclifford4854 3 года назад

Hello. Amazing tests. So helpfull. Question: Where do you get your quick connect fittings?

@allanlowe9346 3 года назад

That craft acrylic in tubes really comes up well and the fact you can blend the colors to make whatever color you like is a winner. Will the addition of flow medium make the finish more glossy or will I still need a gloss coat on cars to get a decent finish. Also thanks for the link for the filter rolls for the booth. Just what I was after. You are the best modeling resource on RU-vid.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

The bottle says adds a Gloss to the paints. It doesn't make it super glossy but it does add a bit more shine. I personally would go with a Gloss coat if it's a nice shine your after

@NAMVETSTARLITE 2 года назад

THE BOB ROSS OF MODEL PAINTERS

@porglezomp7235 7 месяцев назад

I’m a beginning trying to follow your techniques here and am getting some nasty spotting while testing on spoons-not like the airbrush speckles but just as I start to get to thicker coats, little circles will suddenly thin out and end up paler. Any idea about what I’m doing wrong here? Thanks for your thorough videos, even while I’m still having trouble with the basics your thoroughness is very encouraging.

@MrFish1968 Год назад

Really like your videos, I'm thinking about build a MK1 VW Golf from Revell and I want the bodywork to be as good as a real car, probably metallic silver or metallic red, any suggestions on paint?

@elgrifolorian 5 месяцев назад

Lovely Datsun

@tcj226 5 месяцев назад

One of the things you need to look for when using artist's acrylics is opacity which is listed on the label somewhere. (Especially the yellows. Yellow is a difficult color to deal with.) Most that I've seen are translucent and will require multiple coats to get the full depth of color you're expecting.

@68Jaguar420G 3 года назад

It really does seem like black primer is the definitive way to airbrush a good deep metallic colour onto plastic. Such a difference on the silver paint on the black spoon and similar in other videos where you have airbrushed a metallic over white primer versus black primer.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Black bases and metallics go very well together

@rays.86 3 года назад

Another great learning video from the paint master! Thanks! I noticed you did not use any "flow aid" solution to help it spray better. No need? Can you use Mission Model "polyurethane" since it's acrylic also? What psi did use for non-metallic again? 15 for metallic correct?

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

I did add a few drops to these. Once you thin them correctly just add in skme drops. With the Badger I just left the air pressure at 15 psi. With a smaller needle I would go with 15 to 20 psi then to 25 for metallics

@kensscalemodels3263 3 года назад

Another great video you tests have really helped me a lot. The only thing you forgot was the tape test.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

I did the tape test at the end of the vid, on the lime green spoon, look again

@rickfascinato9684 2 года назад

I have learned so much from you.....much appreciated👍👍👍👍when are we gonna spray some polyurathane

@BatFan1 3 года назад

can you do a test of the various craft/art paints (one of each) on parts that have joints, moving parts or parts that rub against each other? to check the durability or if any paint flakes off, like on the frames of the high end gunplas.

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

I'm starting to put a test together for that. I'm just building up the kits I need for the test now.

@danlim9087 3 года назад

Hi Rex, first of all, absolutely love your videos! Have a newbie question: I'm assuming you'll eventually have some paints dry out to some extent for you, can you "revive" the paint by just mixing in thinner?

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

Yes

@riwibela Год назад

Hi, I really enjoy watching your videos of acrylic paint and your own thinner. Do you use your own made thinner on acrylic primer? I have a gray Vallejo primer. I am thinking of using your own made thinner on my primer.

@TheUpsetter 2 года назад

Have you ever used the paint from paint pens? I just did and it's pretty good dries pretty fast to so you get tip dry faster than usual but it's a cheap alternative I got a pack of 12 colours for £5 I'd say they were about 50ml in each pen but watered down would be much more.

@clivejolley6881 2 года назад

Hi Barbatos Rex - Thank You so much from the UK much for all the work and the tips, watching all your vids. I noticed on paints such as Vallejo you spary at about 20 PSI but on the Artist Acrylice you said to use 14 - 15 PSI. Please what is the reason for this when the consistency of both was about the same.

@barbatosrex9473 2 года назад

Vallejo Air has a heavier pigment that I've found difficult to spray below 20psi. You can thin the Vallejo Air Paints but they don't perform as well. It might look like the same consistency ut it's actually not. That said most of the time I will just leave my air compressor set to 20psi. It's the sweet spot

@christinley5213 2 года назад

Wow u look like a personal hobby shop… omg im so jelly!!! Lol!!

@LawrenceValverde 3 года назад

Another great video! Really appreciate all this content and your engagement with your viewers. 2 questions for ya: 1) why did you other using your home made thinner vs the windshield fluid. Between low cost and low effort (no need to periodically mix new batches) I'd think you choose the windshield fluid 2) I've tried various acrylics through that portable NONAME compressor/brush and it often clogs and splutters.... Do you think it's a deficiency of the airbrush quality or just unavoidable with a 0.3mm needle and such a small compressor?

@barbatosrex9473 3 года назад

The windshield fluid is really a cheap quick fix. The home made thinner is better overall to use. It promotes a slower drying time which helps with leveling the paint off and it also helps with lubricating the airbrush itself which in turn helps with tip dry. The portable airbrush just doesn't have the strength to push out thicker pigment rich paint like the tube acrylics. The paint has to be a very thin type to get pushed through.. That's why it works great with lacquers. Try thinning it out a bit more.. Have you tried holding the button on the bottom of it? The switches the compressor to a low and high mode

@LawrenceValverde 3 года назад

@@barbatosrex9473 @Barbatos Rex Thanks! You are my airbrushing guru! I saw that you used that $14 0.3 mm airbrush for your first craft paint video so I've been thinking the .3 that comes with the NONAME should work too, but it's very tricky, often won't spray anything even though no obvious tip dry or clog. What PSI were you using there (was it just more than the little compressor can do?)? I HAVE noticed my expensive Iwata somehow can do a little better... What's better about the Iwata that lets it push the thicker paint?

@LawrenceValverde 3 года назад

@@barbatosrex9473 Also, I did notice the bottom button and I almost exclusively use it on the higher pressure setting anyway. I've also tried thinning the paint more but then it just so many passes to build the color that it's a pain, especially with how long each coat takes to dry. I wonder if your thinner recipe would let it flow better than windshield fluid, but is it going to take even LONGER to paint because it dries slower?