Things that you said like putting the pressure on the rings. Well to maximize that pressure on the range you need to have a wide open throttle. Why. Because that's what makes volumetric efficiency. And that is what raises dynamic compression. Thank you guys you are the best you are the very best I listen to you all the time I am a subscriber. Former racer drag racing circle track. Former Phantom USMC jet Mechanic. Please continue to explain to explain all the details.
Another trick I've used is to install only the outer valve springs for cam break-in. This reduces the load on the lobes during the critical period. Then install the inners, reset lash and you're good to go with the rest of the break-in.
Guys this is awesome information. First time ever on RU-vid and the internet in general when people truly know what they are talking about and where every detail is correct. I happen to know people working on race engines that would never start a new or rebuilt engine with new camshafts. As you say, if the thing does not fire right away the camshafts are toast. They would do the start attempt and do three 20 min steps on the dyno for the rings, then they would let it cool down and install the camshafts, then do the camshafts breakin as you described, just at a slightly higher rpm haha, the engines were Formula One Cosworth DFV/DFZ in the V8 n/a golden era, and those folks, based in Switzerland, at some point maintained the entire F1 grid except Ferrari. The reason why you want some rpm is to lighten the load on the tip of the cams, due to the valve train inertia. Of course you never want the valves to actually float but that’s the idea, giving some speed lighten the load on the tip and avoids galling of the new surfaces. If you think about it, the cam-to-tappet interface is a hairline, and if you were to calculate the pressure per unit-surface on that hairline times the width of the cam, you would discover that this tiny area is by far the highest loaded on the engine, thus the extra precautions.
Exactly. The camshaft live in what is called boundary lubrication because of those high contact pressures. This is why the chemistry of the oil is another crucial part of this process.
Thank you both this is one of the best videos I’ve watched, very valuable information about break in. I’ve been braking in engines for 35 years and I took away very valuable information that I wasn’t necessarily doing in the past.
You know there will be many that say your procedure is all wrong but those of us with street engines are at the mercy of whoever we are watching at the time. In your case, Don has done it the old school way and learned from his failures and Lake works for and developes the piston rings. In the end, failure is expensive and I just choose to trust their procedure. It worked for me.
My son and I rebuilt an inline 6 4.0 Jeep engine and went through the process as described in the manual which is just like this video. As soon as it lit off, it went straight to 2500 rpm for about 30 minutes with small variations in rpm. After that, we hit the road and thankfully it was a manual so the engine got to go through the rpm range several times under full throttle keeping the cylinder pressures up AND decelerate from higher rpms in gear which is good for the rings as well. Turned out to be a really good engine. I still get text messages from the owner saying how good it runs and doesn't use any oil to this day. Good machine work, good parts, good assembly, and good break in does make a difference.
I always ran the oil pump a few minutes with an electric drill first on rebuilt Ford engines. In all these years I never lost a cam or lifters. Either I did the break in correctly or just had good luck. But today it is roller cams only for me. 😊
My engineer mentor always told me that - A rebuilt or overhauled engine is not 'right' until you are sitting on the freeway doing 100 clicks smoothly with no overheating and all gauges in the green. Don't slap it together and just do a 20 minute cursory run and call it good, until you give it that true load that only a good drive can give, Hilly terrain is the best, try a route that takes you up multiple hills to give the engine a good load cycle.
Getting ready to do this saturday . fresh hone , total seal max seal rings , line to line piston skirt coating . i fired it up already . ran hot as i was told it would . ran it for 10 minutes . shut it down. After verifying timing . fresh oil and filter in . ready to do some runs up and dpwn the street tp seat the rings .
Interesting that this is almost diametrically opposite what most car makers recommend, but directly in line with what aircraft engine makers like Lycoming and Continental recommend. It is almost like the car makers don’t want your engine to last a long time…
Car engine manufacturers run the engines on dyno before they leave the factory (so I've been told) so they are already mostly broken in. But if rebuilt it's a different story
Hey can you settle an argument my dad and I are having. I have a recently rebuilt dodge 318 with fresh piston and rings and new lunati flat tappet cam and my dad and I are arguing over whether or not to put a little bit of oil down each cylinder before the first start. I said the cylinder should be dry and the only oil or lube is what was coated on the walls and rings during install of the piston and rings. He said that that it needs additional lubrication since it will not get oil right away for the first few revolutions during the engine startup and running. I believe it's going to cause glazing, he believes it will wear down and damage the rings quickly due to no oil being present. The only reason this is an issue is, is the engine came back from the machine shop about three weeks ago and we're just getting around to installing it and that the oil that was on the piston, rings and walls may have dissipated during that time. Am I right? or is he right? or Are we're both wrong? Thank you for your time.
Great question. There is plenty of oil splashing up from the crankcase, so you don’t need to put oil down the spark plug hole. Only bad things can happen from putting oil on top of the pistons!
You guys are both cool dudes! You've actually got it backwards. We break in our engines in the car or truck. The most important thing is use oil with no friction modifiers during cam and ring break in.
@@hotrodray6802 Thats true... But techniques that are proven work on any engine. I know not everyone has that kind of information or technology available to them, but we r willing to share with people.
Breaking in a new engine is like packing bearings,no matter how you do it its always wrong according to everyone else,lol, you could be certified from the University of bearing packing with a Masters on it and it would still be wrong.
With some engines you really have to give the engine high pressure and then high vacuum. (That's what these pulls are for) For example on a BMW M1000RR it has one Piston ring less in the Motor and if you don't break it in with high gear pulls it will burn oil like crazy
when i did mine i used a large trailer with a front end loader on it, drove around for a few miles under heavy throttle. (think it was a 908M dozer iirc)
I was also taught this procedure in the 70's, but we always leave the car in 1st or 2nd gear and let the engine slow down the car, creates strong vacuum to draw oil up onto the rings.
never could understand why even some "pro's" can't get an engine to fire properly the first time... Get the spark happening near the right time before you ever put fuel in the thing! the timing light works at cranking speeds! then when you add fuel it goes vroom! no backfire, no nonsense..
Hello, Im refreshing my engine to say with new bearings and rings. when I put it back together do I immediately get the rpm above 1500(internals are what was in it) and flutter it through the rpm’s not letting it drop below 1500? when I’m breaking the rings in with driving do I let the truck down shift (as in keep it in drive) when accelerating, or do I keep it in one gear and do pulls in one gear with the column shifter? Some people say it’s bad to let the engine slow down the truck sense its an automatic. You also said to get it up to 50 and slow down as quick as you can. Is there a certain speed to slow down to as in using the breaks, letting it coast, or using the column shifter to engine break it? When floored it shifts at 4k. I haven’t seen it ever shift above 4k rpm. It’s a 96 f-150 with a 5.0 efi, sorry I’m new to this and it’s my first time ever tearing into an engine and I want everything to go as good as possible.
Hey guys, for a new flat tap cam and turbo what to do when the turbo manufacturer say to let engine idle, first start, at least 5 mins AND prime engine oil before (assuming cranking) ? Never be able to find a correct answer neither of the cam maker, or turbo would disclose data. Maybe because it's better to break them separate ? Thanks for your time, awesome work.
Last SBC I built while doing cam break in the header paint started bellowing to point it was hard to see the engine and summit sent me the wrong sending unit for my digital temp gauge so it was reading 260+ I was totally horrified but I kept going because it didn't feel that hot I did not dare to stop the break in but all was good another flat tappet lived through break in. I don't think it hurt it was a Howards cam. I lost a comp 292 like 20+ years ago that sucked wiped out cam and engine full of filings. Time start all over. I did hear comp had subbed out there cams and got a bunch batches of soft cams a machine shop went through a bunch of 280 magnums in a row but that's what the guy HAD to have.
I fully understand the ring process. My question is what to do when I have new heads and springs too? The springs need to be heat cycled before run hard? warm up once and cool off then do the 2nd gear pulls and let the engine decel normally?
And yet... Detroit pumped out millions of engines in the golden era of flat tappet cams, and every time the discussion of modern "break in" procedures comes up like this, that history does not get examined. Imagine an operation that needs something north of 70,000 lifters a week doing assembly in various locations: they had 25 minutes per engine [plus setup time] to certify ready for install? Not believable.
About 10yrs ago I had an engine shop rebuild my GM 4.3L vortec engine/auto trans. Their instructions for break-in was: Upon start up keep above 2k rpm for 20 minutes straight. Then immediately go out and drive it for 30min - 1hr at varying high rpm hits but downshift into second gear to engine brake to rolling stop as many times as possible causing high intake vacuum to help seat the rings. Is this a correct theory? and if so would that same procedure be recommended for a newly remanufactured GM 5.3L ls stock engine?
How would you break in a home standby generator engine? They (air cooled) run at a constant 3600 rpms and measured in hours not miles. And should a "break in oil" like Driven be used for one or two oil changes??
Quick question fellas, I Just rebuilt my 5.0 coyote motor (forged internals, etc). I understand that I’m supposed to use break-in oil for 300-500 miles. But am I supposed to use regular conventional oil for additional miles or is it safe to go back to the regular oil I use??
What if you run into an issue part way through the flat tappet cam break-in procedure? For example, you start to notice your engine temp climbing near the high end. I'm assuming we should stop everything, address the issue and then when the engine is cooled to normal operating temp, resume? Point being, is all lost if we can't get it done in one shot?
Do you recommend the same break-in procedure for a small engine? I have a new Honda GX100 and a Lifan 78cc that both need to be broken in. Same procedure with rpm modified for the smaller engine? I would think a small engine like these running a good break in oil would need 25 miles or so for a full break in prior to switching out to regular oil. What do you think?
I have been enjoying and laerning from your videos i have a c153 int tractor motor fresh from machine shop waiting on new exhaust manifold how would you break in a tractor motor
Thanks for the comment! I’d follow the same procedure, but cut the RPM in half. 1,000 RPM is plenty for an old tractor engine. Do the 20 to 30 minute cam break-in, and then go drive the tractor to put some load on the engine (rings). Same procedure, just modified.
Do you have any advice in relation to breaking in small engines like mowers? My plan was to briefly warm the oil and run the engine hard under load - changing oil every 10 mins or so (since there is no filtration) - Keen on your thoughts
For new cars with delivery miles, do you simply do the varying load pulls within the first few miles after delivery? What mileage range? At what mileage do you consider an engine fully broken in?
Always good info, thanks, BUT, please address the forgotten? never talked about flat tappet break-in problem of engine/oil temperatures. Radiators and cooling systems are often not capable of keeping engine temperatures in a safe range, which in my opinion has everything to do with the oils ability to lubricate camshaft lobes and lifters during a break-in procedure, open cooling system versus closed coolant system is my go to. Thoughts?
If you have proper lifter/cam contact geometry and the correct oil, this procedure will work perfectly for a flat tappet engine. If the radiator can only handle 10 minutes at a time, then it is fine to repeat that cycle 2 to 3 times.
Great video and thanks for the info. One question, if you're only rebuilding the bottom end, i presume you still need to warm the engine up at 3k rpm got 10 or 15 mins before putting it under load?
Thanks for all the good info my question is when breaking in a methanol engine should I use the lean out valve to help build temperature quicker in a race only situation I've always ran the engine at 2500 for 20 min recheck valves and go racing .before now I used injection with a gas primer so the 1sr 20 min were on gas..now with alcohol carb I will be running on methanol for break in ..any tips that may help would be highly appreciated thanks again for the straight advice
Great question. In our other video on dyno break-in, we covered leaning out the engine when using methanol. You can run the engine leaner on Methanol when you are not running the engine under full load, so that is very helpful to build temperature and reduce fuel wash.
How long should you run the break in oil? Should you change the initial oil and use break in oil again a second time for so many miles before going to your regular oil?
Thanks for the great video, I recently built a LS2 engine with your Gapless top rings. I will be doing the break in with the engine in the car, I understand the process you spoke of above with driving and applying the load to the engine. My question is do I start the engine let it warm up and change the oil before the first drive or just go ahead and drive it? How long should the break in oil stay in the engine? I autocross my car when can I start racing the car and can I race it with the break in oil in the engine or do I have to wait till I change to regular oil? This is my first built engine and I am a little nervous about the break in and don't want to do anything that would damage it or reduce its life span. I also watched your videos on break in oil and looked at your analysis, I will be running Lucas 30Wt break in oil because it had all the green checkmarks and no red x's. I also purchased a fitting for the block and a fluid pump the pre-pressurize the engine with oil before the first start, I had planned on pressurizing it with the pump and slowly turning the engine over without the plugs in it, then installing the plugs and then starting it. Thanks for any advise
Great question. Start the car and bring the engine up to 2,000 RPM for 1 minute before driving the car. Follow the procedure in the video, and then change the break-in oil after 1 hour of engine run time.
Your procedure for breaking in the engine on the dyno is running at 3000 RPM with about 75 ft lb of load that's great if the only speed you ever going to run that engine is 3000 RPM. And with somewhere between 70 and 100 ft lb of load. If you're going to use an engine in your car it's going to take at least five hundred miles of very driving so that the engine Brakes in at the varied speeds that you were going to actually drive the damn thing. It is far better to break in an engine in the car if you're going to use it in the car and motivate yourself from place to place at varying speeds and traffic conditions!
That's not the correct way to look at the break-in process. You are not trying to replicate what happens on the road. You are simply allowing the parts that run in contact with each other to mate. This procedure works great for that purpose.
hey guys kinda new to this, and i need to break in a truck motor and what i got from here is that ypu need load and torque to break in the rings. Now i suppose most of yall are doing this for cars but with a truck would it be dumb to just hookup a real heavy load via trailer or sumto simulate load and toque? prolly wot be doing this😂 but i am curious
This is exactly what the manufacturers do when they roll their cars/bikes off the production line. A proper dyno run to test parameters. The side effect of this is that it beds in the piston rings.
Can you guys comment on the case where the engine is being broken in on a run stand? (ie minimal load on the engine as compared to the dyno or in-car methods) Thanks!
Thanks for the question. Because a run-in stand can’t apply load, we don’t recommend using a run stand to break-in an engine. They are fine for breaking in a can and checking for leaks, but rings need load to break-in properly, especially with thinner rings.
@@TotalSeal I'm sorry i beg to differ as when I load the engine on the start up stand and I run it to 2000 rpm for 20 minutes it is just as good as running it in the car driving around. You cannot push the motor too much driving around just the same as running on an engine stand.
If you buy a new car off the lot but it already has 5, 10 or 20 miles on the odometer, would it still be beneficial to do this procedure for the rings or is the opportunity to really break in the rings with maximum effectiveness and benefit already gone? Keep in mind this car was also driven at low rpm’s to load and unload it for transport several times, idling for who knows how long. Would this have caused damage to the cam lobes or at the very least some pre-mature wearing?
I did 1200 miles on my new motor, not going past 4k rpms. It felt fine, but had a few hiccups. After I ran it to redline a few times now, it seems like it runs better. Is that just in my head or is there a reason?
I have VW type 1 engine. It is flat tappet, but I bought some DLC coated tool steel lifters since I heard a lot of people were having a problem for a while. Is there any special procedures you would recommend for a set up like this?
This is probably Driven GP-1 break in oil. I know it’s got a bunch of zinc additives. Not sure if that turns it green or if the dye it green to be unique like royal purple, probably the latter.
I just put your rings in my 2017 coyote mustang. Working out other issues currently and drove it a little bit but didn't floor it really, drove about 20km at normal acceleration. Should they still seat properly if i go out and put my foot down?
I have an LQ4 that has been completely rebuilt so new pistons, rings, cam, bearings, etc. My question is can I run the engine long enough at idle to get up to temp to top off the coolant and transmission without worrying about glazing the cylinders? Then take it out and do the break in pulls like the video?
With all the trouble with breaking in flat tappet lifters these days, would breaking the engine in with much lighter valve springs or even lower ratio lift rockers take some of the stress off of the cam lobes until the cam and lifters are broke in?
So there wouldn’t be an issue with breaking in the cam one day and the rings another day? Example would be on a circle track car where you couldn’t get out and make pulls until you got to the track that weekend.
Well I’ll throw an idea out there. I check my oil at a lab ( Blackstone) and I have noticed that metal particles don’t level off till 50k-60k miles. So when is the car engine really broken in?
I am restoring a Jag V12 engine and have new pistons and rings (TS Gapless) but the Cam has already 60000Miles on it and stays in so I guess I can skip that part.
So what are thoughts on the new 10-10-10 method being published that showed less cam wear? run for 10, cool for 10, etc. Also when you are on load break in and not initial... should that be the same oil? I always read you change the initial oil then you do drive it gently for 500 miles.. with me I have a fresh built AOD and a fresh rear end that is supposed to be broken in . I know the rear has to be heat cycled like drive 20 miles then let it cool so I dont know if that means I can't run up the RPM a bit... has a 3000 converter too. The other thing is I'm rushing to get this done, would be great to start the engine soon being toward winter id probably use 5w30 anyway, but should I use like a moroso heating pad on the pan ? Thanks
The 10 - 10 - 10 is great for the camshaft, you just need to complete the break-in with load on the engine as described in the video. Essentially, you can sub the first 20 minutes of engine run time for the 10 - 10 - 10 if you have a flat tappet cam.
@@TotalSeal Thanks! I think I absolutely should use 5w 30 if I get my first start going here soon. getting cold in NY. My only concern is .. ring and pinion / carrier break in is like 100 miles before "hard acceleration" after the 10-15 mile warm up and cool down. Tranny is also fresh. but would a load count as say... Leaving it in first and bringing it up more gradual to 5000? still pushing the weight of the truck ? or is it about inertia? I just hope I'm not in a stalemate that one thing or the other will be properly broken in lol
@@TotalSeal Thanks.. makes me feel a bit more confident lol. not like im the first person to just build all the new parts at once so im sure its "ok" if not ideal
What do you recommend for oil change intervals during break in? I’ve heard that doing the first change at 500 is good, but I’ve also heard smaller intervals like 50, 100, 500. And for that matter at what point is it safe to switch to your standard running oil?
@@c_healy If you are running actual "break in oil" then also check with the oil manufacturer (I was just looking at DrivenRacing and they say 400 miles).
Can you just rev it up to set the rings or would it be better to drive it? Only reason i ask is im in a very congested area and i dont think id have the space
Have an Honda Acura gsr motor I just rebuilt. I put in just conventional 10/30 oil then set at 1500 to about 1800 and left it warm up and cool for two cycles. Emptied that oil and filter out. Boy, was It nasty looking! Then refilled it with break in oil and oem Honda oil filter. Thank God for the area because we have great hills and valleys to be able to get great back pressure on the rings from acceleration and decel pulls. Two or so times up and down and you're pretty much golden. QUESTION: How do you guys know when your motor is broken in? Thanks
Hi Lake, What if the car is like just a 1.3 liter with not that much torque to load the rings, should we still conservatively follow the 3,000 rpm and 30 minute run, or we should load it up with more torque (I don't know how to measure that without I dyno)? But I hope you get my point in breaking in little pony cars. 😄
After the cam break in without a dyno and a flat tappet, do you keep the same 5w30 oil in the motor for the street break in? I'm getting a long block LA 318.
In the video we talked about proper break-in being low detergent or non-detergent. The oil straight 30 grade oils were just that and they had ZDDP. Today, straight 30 grade oils either have no additives at all (not good) or a full additive package (high detergent). That’s what had changed.
So how do you get fuel and spark to the engine before you crank the engine? How do you make sure the first time the engine turns this is going to happen?
You can crank the engine with spark plugs removed to make sure there is fuel flow. You can even connect one spark plug and bump the started to make sure it sparks (just make sure to keep it away from the engine). That's the best way to know the engine has both fuel and spark before the initial start up.
@@TotalSeal does this do any damage to flat tappet cam shaft? I've been told you don't want to crank the engine much before starting. Thanks for the information
@@JohnScheppler you can bump the started on a flat tappet cam to prime the oil pump, fuel pump and check spark for about 10 to 15 seconds with no problems. We do that with all new flat tappet cam builds. You just don’t want to keep cranking on it for more than that.
Closest real machine shop wants 2,000 for Dino day. Yikes! But im Afraid of trying to break in without, because i need to have af and such somewhat right first, before I start trying to load it. But after I built my engine, The last I saw my piggy Bank it was hiding under the bed In the fetal position.
