How to build up a colony and stop swarming with the Demaree method 

Thanks for the input.

I was told by a smart fella that if there is so much pressure and consistency to get bees to not swarm that it could be detrimental to bees in an evolutionary sense, the bees swarming trait that they are wired with for millions of years is the same mystery that has kept them alive , I would much rather trust the honey bees instinct over humans keeping bees in their yard speculating and guessing and trying to oust them from swarming , this is just my opinion along with some other natural folks , so I’m just going to keep an eye on them and try to be as natural as possible, if you only let 2 colonies swarm that’s an awesome ratio , it gives you more room to do splits and the bees still feel like they are doing the right thing by swarming 😝 I know it’s hard to lose bee’s though, I used to get so upset when I was younger, I was like I gave you everything!! And you swarmed to the neighbors who use generic frames and hive bodies!!! 🤣🤣

Hi Michael...wow that is a lot of hives to run on your own. You must have some knowledge and experience. I completely agree with your swarm control method, but what do you do with all your older Queens that are over 1 year. It must be difficult to get rid of them especially if they are still performing well. Would you have purchased commercial queen's are breed your own.? Did you ever have problems with varroa?

@@MrDavederave007 queens a year old or younger don't swarm, older ones don't either if you split the brood in the spring making sure she has LOTS of room, also don't leave them with too much honey during swarming season, i did not mark my queens so i had no idea of their age, i decided age was irrelavent, if they had fewer bees than the other hives they were replaced unless they had a new queen, obvious by excellent well fed brood pattern also any burr comb in lid or bottom board is worker comb, moving hives around 8 months of the year and taking all their honey, means a queen is only good for 2 years if you expect to make money. i bought queen cells from a breeder, a dollar fifty each. i live in australia, varroa arrived here about a year ago, i am hoping to be dead before it arrives in my state. i was fortunate to get a job at 15 yrs old with one of the best commercial beekeepers in australia, he would say look after your bees and they will look after you.

@@michaeljoncour4903 @michael joncour Thanks for reply Michael. Well I'm glad to hear you are still keeping bees. I've been keeping bees for about 10 years and also learnt a lot (but not everything) from volunteering to hobbyist beekeeper for several years. He had about 20 hives but they either swarmed every year or produced little hobey. Riddled with varroa and we could rarely get a hold on it. You might wish to be dead if your hives are infested with varroa 🙂 They're a real pain in the but to deal with as they just keep coming. I lost all my hives 2 years ago.. I think from multiple oversights..namely splitting too late and ordering queen's too late.. plus no doubt some varroa issues and wasps hit them really hard unfortunately as they weren't strong enough. Well I'm trying to relearn everything now. If you split them in the spring, aren't you going to have less of a honey crop? I assume you mean split if the brood is reaching a certain amount of frames like 6? Then obviously set her back by splitting but the hive may not have the strength to take advantage of nectar flow and produce lots of honey. I've seen methods such as Demaree method or Horseley board or artificial swarm method but they can be very time consuming and hands on. Those methods allow one to build the workforce up really big but offset swarming. Having a newly mated queen in the hive makes a lot of sense. You can never stem swarming with an older than one season queen if the colony wants to swarm..they will. Is there any money in bees Michael? I have had such mixed answers from so many beekeepers it would seem it just depends who's at the helm. Is the money in the honey or is it in splits or queen's? If not for the money then for the love 🙂

Good idea to check first!

If he's seen eggs then destroying the queen cells is not the end of the world.

@@peterhenderson116 It isn't, but better to avoid problems when possible. BTW, did you look at the age of this video and the comments?

Glad it was helpful! That is the key different circumstances require using the same techniques in different ways. Its understanding what affect each has on the bees which allows the beekeeper to adapt to the circumstances.....keep watching!

I'm glad, it is certainly something I will do more frequently especially when I see a nice hive with queen cells.

Thank you!

Glad it was helpful!

Glad you enjoyed it

Glad you liked it!

Nice eye!

A useful learning experience at the very least.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer Please keep us informed how they do. Very interesting for a hobbyist.

You are so welcome!

Having ours now...too many hives here to take advantage!!

Makes sense!

Makes sense thanks for the input!

It is still possible for a virgin queen to pass through an excluder.

I hope so too!

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer i just turned a huge double deep into a Demaree split this afternoon, so I guess we’ll both get to see the benefits of this method! I’ll need to vent the top a bit I think just to let the drones out though. I don’t really want to drill a hole up top. The flow should start here in less than two weeks!

Yes but I can see a lot to learn from this process, so I will apply it to more colonies and report as I go.

You need to think of these concepts in context. An isolated queen cell in the middle of the frame us usually a supercedure cell, bottom of the frame swarm cell. That is correct however when they appear together they are ALL swarm cells. It is true that for the untrained eye it is not a good idea to destroy swarm cells untill you have located the queen but if there are eggs there is a good chance she is still there. In all the hives I did this to the queen was successfully confined to the bottom box.

I'm not at the scale I can justify pallet loads. My patties just went on here this week.

I'm sorry mate, I'm not sure what happened. That comment wasn't meant for your video. I also got patties on over the weekend. Happy beekeeping. I hope your bees look great.

Could not agree more! My Saskatraz bees are more gentle but my Italians less so....requeened these hives later in the season!

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer this is my first time buying bees , so I hope I don’t get 10 boxes of hot bees lol , we used to maintain 4-500 colonies and I never bought a bee, we always trapped our bees so i don’t imagine it’s as good in suburban Maryland for trapping bees like it used to be , I think I’m gonna keep ordering hygienic queens and requeening until the gene pool is better

There are multiple approaches usung variations of this method.

You're welcome

Easier true but I am not sure you would end up with same production plus emergency queen cells tend to not produce the best queens (not always) so not a big fan of them.

Last think u wanna do is start walking capped queen cells and u didn't find the queen. The way the bees are acting I'd say the queen already left. Was this a how not to do video?

@@mikeoxlong3224 The queen was found, so no problem there.

Theoretically yes.

If there is no upper entrance....yes.

That is my foil backed bubble wrap inner cover...no upper entrance.

I will have to re watch Bob video I don't recal how that was relevant to this manipulation.

Its a great video and a great way to make a split....this is different with different objectives.

Yup not my best video at finding the queen!!

Not yet!

Never tried it.

I think you would still get queen cells but maybe less frequently. That is closer to what I do with changing from a double brood chamber down to a single.

MANY permutations of the same principal.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer yep

yes

You can use foundation....great way to get more comb drawn.

The inner cover is not a complete seel so bees can get out from the top.

If the hive upstairs is bee proof that may be right....but I would not want to risk an avoidable swarm

Its not temperature but state of the colony that is important.

I am still learning some of the MANY permutations of the Demaree method , so YES that is an option but the plan for this variation is to postpone the need to go back into it and give lots of room for honey. I will need to go back into the two old brood chambers (at the top of the hive) as that is where the emergency queen cells will be built.

Ahh yes, as I’ve done more study on the DeMaree method, I’ve more fully understood it’s use, and can understand that historically it was used as a swarm preventative measure. Makes a lot more sense to me, will be cool to see how you think it goes. 😊

Yes if there is still a good honeyflow on when they have built and occupied the first two deeps and you are putting on a honey super that when its best to start for me.

MANY options, that one would work fine.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer Thank you Sir.

Yes usually via the inner cover.....gives drones a way out and improves ventilation.

Yes but wait till the brood has emerged.

Thank you very much.

You bet

Pine needles and wood pellets

Each Spring I make nucs from all of my overwintered hives...all of last years honey goes out in them.

A thipple layered ventilated suit

Usually yes, but not always.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer Today I set up one of my colonies using the Demaree method. Thank you for the thorough demonstration and explanation, very easy to follow. Do you think having an entrance at the top will pose an issue? I currently use an inner cover which allows access in and out. I guess I'm concerned that if forager bees use this entrance, further lessening contact with queen pheromone, could that situation stimulate worker bees to start laying?

Drones were not my focus however if your concern was for how would they get out of the hive there is a small upper entrance.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer you need to make up your mind, because that question was asked 8 months ago by Jim Do the bees have a second entrance and you said “ NO” now your saying they DO have one. What is it YES or NO…..?

Yes they do to some extent. The young house bees go to where they are needed...around the brood, so to start with most are up in the old brood chamber, as the lower brood chamber grows more move to that area.

Yes the queen isplaced in the bottom deep below a queen excluder.

To my knowlege (which may not be saying much) double screen boards are not used in Demaree manipulations.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer that is correct from what i have seen

The bees are free to move up and down....shaking them down is only to make sure that the queen is down there....shaking not required if you find her and move her.

The boxes can safely be put down either upright if you have something like an upsidedown cover on which to place it, or on its end (not side) if there is limited room. Either way the frames stay in place.

No, once thay have decided to swarm just adding space is not enough to change their minds.

That is one reason we wait till past the peek egg laying period.... as it gets a bit past that a ten frame deep is enough to keep her busy.

Thanks next time Those boots are beyond redemption I think!!!

Or have an upper entrance.

Always interested in what works for folks.

With that amount of disruption any colony will fly a lot. They did have a queen.

Thanks

Yes unless I add an upper entrance.

They were Italians...not as calm as my Saskatraz....so later that summer I added a saskatraz queen cell to supercede the queen!

I agree with you. I use this method in belgium with a lot of success. Maybe it wasn't the good colony for showing a demary method... Better before swarming cells and without other queens cells. And 30 minuts for 1 hive is too long... Who have this time? Did'nt find the queen in few min? Use QUICKLY a plan B...

It is a very common misconception that if a queencell is in the middle of a frame it is a supercedure cell. If there were only one or two then yes (that is where supercedure cells are found) but where there are multiple cells and there is a queen present these are ALL swarm cells....they do not do both at the same time.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer there were a lot, I agree... I wouldn't be sure that these action will be enough to prevent swarming (inclination of swarming) in these situation. In this case, I would prefer a double screen board method. Please, for information, give us some news of these hive. Sorry for my english. Thank you for your videos.

@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer thanks for the info ,I have been struggling with that concept to either leave it because they have a reason for wanting to replace her ,or is it really just a swarm cell ,it has gotten me in trouble on a few occasions.

@@martenapperloo1055 If she was a failing queen she couldn't produce that much brood if you remember he found about 5 frames of newly hatched larva meaning she'd laid up that many frames within the last 7 days.

That assumes I know how to circle things on my videos!!! My tech skills are laughable!

When a colony is preparing to swarm ALL queen cells are swarm cells. When superceding they make one or two queencells (except in emergency supercedure) This is a very common misconception. Please don not underestimate the good sense of my native America by saying a walk away split is the American way. These should , in my opion, only be done if you MUST split and can not find the queen, forcing them to make queencells means they may make some out of 5 day old larvae rather than 4 day old larvae. These make inferior queens and as they will emerge first they then kill all the better quality queens.

In my view removing capped queen cells is OK as long as there is evidence of the queen being in place based upon the presence of eggs (so there is the ability to replace even if she is gone) and of equal importance nowing that the population is such that you are confident that they have not already swarmed. Granted the latter requires a trained eye sometimes so your point is very valid for beginners.

Yup I was slow getting this job done...but my RU-vid videos are as much a look into my beekeeping day as they are edited down to an efficient beekeeping class. My classes are found elsewhere.

Seems to be working to me while continuing colony growth .

Seems like a very logical way to keep bees frpm.swarming, and maximizing honey production. This is intended for smaller operations, such as hobby beeks, as Peter said. Love the video Peter, keep up the good work !!! Richard in Alabama 5th year beek.

Io, other than gettin' up on the wrong side of the bed, why didn't your Mom teach you better manners???