This is the best RU-vid video I have ever seen. I am turning Full Retirement Age in 3 weeks so I needed to know what my Social Security benefits will be. Thanks a million. Boogie in Florida
If I work a total of 35 years but there were years in between that I didn't work do those years not work count against me? Also if I stop working at 61 and don't collec social securityt till 64 will those 3 years not working count against the formula to determine highest paid years?
Nothing counts "against" you. If you worked less than 35 years (as did my wife) you will get a reduced benefit because you are working with a smaller number at the beginning of the calculation. If this is the case (your earnings record is on ss.gov) it would really be good if you could keep working. Not only would your SS benefit increase substantially but your financial picture should get better- less debt, more savings. But even if you stop working your SS benefit will continue to grow if you wait to collect, just not as much as if you had kept in the workforce.
Good points to get a closer estimate but what about how to calculate the new 5.9% COLA that just came out? Can we take our monthly estimate and add the 5.9% or do the calculations change in the formula you gave us? As an example, if I retired lets say in January. My current monthly would be approximately $1856 per estimator calculator. Because this is calculated prior to January 1, would it be assumed that I could add 5.9% and see $1965?
I ran the calculation assuming I'll retire at 67 (current plan). My number was about 12% higher than that which i just pulled off SSA site, and our assumptions were nearly exact for future earnings. A question someone posted here some time ago might explain it. Do earnings beyond 62 count when finding AIME?
Your earnings do count beyond 62. One of the biggest problems with the number on the SSA site is that they do not account for YOUR future earnings increasing OR the bend point formula increasing. When you used my method, it did account for an increasing bend point.
@@DevinCarroll what does a person do if their retirement calculation differs from the SSA's calculation and the person's earnings record is accurate? Meaning the only dispute is with the SSA's calculation. How does the retiree dispute it with the SSA? Is it a prolonged process? Should the person accept their Soc. Sec. Retirement benefits, albeit an incorrect amount, while disputing the inaccuracy with the SSA calculation??
If you use the following formula in Excel it will calculate your average of your high 35 years =SUM(LARGE(F2:F45, {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35}))/420
I did this twice and the SSA shows my "age 66, your payment would be about..1,606 a month and I come up with $1435 doing your calculations. I turn 67 in this year in July (2019) and I got the index figures and Bend points for 2014. I just formatted the numbers to 2 decimal places so I could see an anomaly and nothing. What should I do next? Thanks.
Devon, From age 62 to FRA, "My Social Security" (eStatements) showed a monthly increase. It was a little bit exciting to see it grow. However, after FRA, the monthly estimated amount stays the same all year long, with a possible increase in December (if there is a COLA), then again in January where either it is the fabled 8% DRC, or it is changed due to an old year dropping off to be replaced with a much higher current year. I suspect it is the latter of these as it is never as high as 8%. So, my question is, "When are the DRC calculated and added in?" Thank you - Great Videos!
The method used to add the delayed retirement credits is interesting. If you file early, the reductions are immediate. If you file between your FRA and age 70, the increases aren't applied until the January after the year you file. The only exception is if you file at 70. Good question! I probably need to do a video on this.
High income earners would need to cap the indexed wage to maximum taxable for the year for the correct benefit amount. If the annual income is more that taxable maximum then these calculations will show a higher than expected social security benefit. In 2022, the maximum benefit is $3,240 per month for someone who files at full retirement age (FRA) at age 66. But $4,194 is the absolute highest benefit for those who qualify and delay claiming until age 70. Thank you for the video.
@Devin Carroll, this is great information. I used all the artifacts you mentioned in this video, including download of your spreadsheet. After applying a 4% inflation rate in your bend point calculator, I got a way better number for my social security monthly payment amount that the estimated amount on my social security annual statement. I will be 62 in 2022, so I think the calculations should be correct. Would like to know your thoughts if possible before I become over optimistic 🙏🏼☮️
So to summarize a 13 minute video: Just take an average of your top 35 years salary and multiply by about about 30% for full retirement age. The 30% factor varies from year to year depending on historic inflation.
No. If you just averaged the top 35 years without multiplying by the indexing factor for each year first you'd drastically underestimate your AIME. If you derived the proper AIME but simply multiplied it by 30% you'd way underestimate the payment at full retirement age for low wage earners and overestimate it for high wage earners.
Hi Devin! Thank you for the info. I used the calculation provided and my FRA amount was about $300 higher than the SS estimate. I used the average of my prior year and current year salary as my annual earnings in all future years until FRA I did not index earnings beyond age 59 I used the current year bend points without increasing them from the 2023 bend points of $1,115 and $6,721 Any idea where I may be going wrong? Thanks!
I was quoted the amount I would receive at full retirement age several years before I was full retirement age. I have been working full time and still do , so I don’t understand how the SS Admin. Is correct as my income has increased yearly?
Every month I wait my benefit goes up about $16.00. Or $200.00 a year. If you don't NEED the money waiting is going to be beneficial to your wealth in retirement.
What if a person is disabled, do they add zeros for the years they were unable to work due to a disability? And if not, how/doesthis change the formula?
I know this video is four years old, but shouldn’t there be a seventh column after the Indexed Earnings are calculated? It seems that there should be an upper limit you can use after adjusting for each year based upon the Yearly Maximum Taxable Earnings Limit for Social Security. Otherwise, the maximum SS received by a consistently high wage earner would be excessive. I had found an actual Social Security Form several years ago that I used for estimating. Unfortunately, I can’t find that form now and can’t remember it’s form number. On that form there were actual upper limits you could not exceed after indexing your yearly salaries. I wish that you would address this. Thanks
Probably so. It seems like I may have said that you only index earnings below the cap, but I'm not positive. I plan to cover this fairly exhaustively in a new video soon.
Please answer, If Canadian Citizen working in USA last 20 Year and he/she is Canadian citizen NOT a US Citizen/Greencard. Do He/She will get Social Security at the age of 62 or higher?
Hey Devin, I calculated my PIA they way you described and my calculation is $500 per month higher than what SS.gov shows. Any ideas why? I have double and triple checked my income/ index factors and bend points. Thanks Scott
Hi Scott! How old are you? If you are several years away from your Full Retirement Age the methodology of the SSA could be the culprit. They take your last two years of earnings and assume that those exact earnings will continue. If your earnings increase, as earnings typically do, you will have a higher AIME. Additionally, the SSA doesn't include inflation in their estimates despite the fact that inflation will increase your benefit amount. I'd love to get this figured out with you so lets keep the conversation going!
If I retire at 63, but delay taking my social security benefits till age 70, do I earn the delayed retirement credits? Or do you have to work to your full retirement age to qualify for the credits?
Great stuff! I put together a spreadsheet based on the information you provided. I found that it gave me an estimate much higher than what my SS statement shows. Do you have a sample sheet we could download to compare? Not sure what the differences are. Thanks.
The difference is that the SSA does not account for inflation in your future earnings. This is not just the COLA, this is the wage growth that drives the entire formula. For example, a 50 year old is having their benefit calculated with TODAYS formula when it is clear the formula changes nearly every year with changes to the average wage index.
This is great info...Devin, how do you calculate children's benefits and your non-working wife as their care taker? I've called the SSA many times but you get different answers. Thank you for your reply!
FYI - I have used Devin's info in this video and on his website and I couldn't figure out why the bend points where so different from what actually transpired from 2023 to 2024. The SSA has published the 2024 bend points and they are much higher than either the 2%, 3% or 4% estimated bend points from Devin's calculator. That's because there was about a 5.3% jump from 2023 to 2024! It was even higher from 2022 to 2023. So, I ran some historical numbers. The bend points averaged 3.49% annual increases over the past 30 years of published bend points (1995 through 2024) and they average 4.28% from 1980 through 2024. If you only run the averages through 2022, which excludes the last two years of very high inflation, you'll still get 3.31% for 30 years (1993 through 2022) or 4.15% for the 1980 through 2022 period.
My FRA is this month. So I am 66.5 years old now. But if I do the math.... it is NOT 8% higher for that first year after FRA. For those first 6 months after my FRA date of 8/23, the increase after 6 months is actually around 3.35% increase. Then the second 6 months (starting in February Y2024), will be a 4% increase. So in my case, waiting a year after my FRA this month, is less than 8% increase.
I am trying to decipher the reduction per year for retiring early. My FRA is 67. If I go at 62 is 30% (5% each for 62 and 63, total 10% plus 6.66 each for 64, 65, 66, total of 20%)?
Great video Devin. Thanks for the easy, concise instructions. Following your instructions, I was able to build a spreadsheet and process 47 years of earnings very quickly. YOU ROCK SIR!
Glad it helped! You may also want to cross check your spreadsheet with my new calculator that allows you to pout in your historical AND projected earnings. socialsecurityintelligence.com/calculators/
@@DevinCarroll Is this calculator result showing future value or present day value? My calculations using your video are showing significantly different numbers (like $1000 difference per month!).
It is either those calculations are wrong or the IRS is making an error. I was born in October 1959, so my FRA is 66 and 10 months. , yet on my last SSA statement it says that my PIA at my FRA is: 2328 (which is also wrong according to my earnings record and the indexing of the SSA website - supposed to be 2397), but anyway, at age 62 the estimate is 1659 (which is 71.26% of my PIA) and at age 70 it is 2918 (which is 25.34% higher than the PIA). It all seem to be skewed. It should simple to calculate because I have stopped working in 2012, and I have all zeros on the record since, and will have the same no earnings until I decide to apply for benefits. (as the IRS assumes correctly). The numbers in the video do not concur (perhaps because it is 2019 and not 2020 ?)
Hello,need some advice, I stop working at 57 1/2 I’ve been working since I was 18-2 years of unemployment that comes out to 39 years I haven’t been back to work at all I’m coming to 62 years old , is your calculation or you’re thinking I should go back to work too I’m 67 or just file at 62 and do the calculations
Thank you so much for this presentation. It was just the information I was looking for. Fortunately, this was perfect for me because I will be 62 this year, so I didn’t have to calculate the bend points, since your example had them. When I plug in the numbers to sum the highest 35 years, my total indexed earnings were $9,484.75 (more than the example used). Using the bend point to determine my monthly eligibility, my maximum I could draw is $2,344.92. That is a huge discrepancy from what my estimated earning statement says. According to the estimated benefit, it states that I would draw $1,736 a month at FRA. That’s a big difference. How should I proceed in finding more accurate information? Thank you for providing this information. You are a great presenter!
I'm in the same boat! I have NO clue how I got indexed earnings of 7963 when I cap out around 78K a year in income at age 62...if I multiple 7963x12 that equels more than my top salary??? How is this possible---what am I missing?
When you take your early retirement benefits at 62, there is a limit on your earnings before SSA witholds a portion of your benefits. If I have RENTAL INCOME. Does that count as part of that limit of income? I can't find the information. Can someone who knows, please comment?
Sorry if this has already been asked-I didn’t read all 134 comments-I have figured my PIA. I am retiring at 59 and will not take Social Security until 67. Will my PIA increase due to COLA’s for the next 8 years even though I’m not receiving the benefit or will I still get what I estimated originally? Thanks for the terrific work you do.
When doing my bin points I quit paying Social Security when I was turned 50 I went to work for a place to do not pay Social Security so last time I paid was 2013 is that when I figure my been points or I’m still working but I’m not paying Social Security do I figure my Ben points up the current year I’m trying 22?
the SS staement has 2 earning numbers: Taxed Social Security Earnings and Taxed Medicare Earnings - which one do u use in this calculation?? (the Taxed Medicare Earnings ??)
I am 63 and plan on taking SS at FRA (67). I went to the SS website and it gives me my estimate at the 3 points. Does this estimate include the COLA's between 62 and 67 or does the monthly payouts have the COLA go back to age 62 through 67 and recalculate this estimate of my SS when I go to draw SS? In otherwards, are the estimates I am seeing on the SS website updated each year on the SS website after age 62 or do I have to wait until a final calculation is done to take into account COLA's?
Hi Devon, My eligible retirement age of 62 was 2016. I worked full time until November of 2021. I see that the indexing factor for Me at 60 and 61 is 1.0000000. Is the I.F. the same for My age up to 67?
Very intelligent! You broke it downl. Once i get all the necessary information you shared. Would SSA approved my factual work and correction? I feel like they won't even know where to start with this great information you shared.
So how bad can high income people get screwed by that 15% bend point. What is the max PIA that can be in that third bend that we are paying full price on. I think this is important to explain for those that think the “rich” don’t pay their fair share. Be good to see how much money can be in that third 15% Replacement.
It would be better to simplify the system. It would also be a big help if the government would use the top 30 years, instead of 35. Low earning years can really bring your average way down.
David I'm 63, pretty healthy and working. I'd like to keep working when I retire. How much can I earn, and draw SSI at age 67, or should I wait till age 70 if I am able? My current job pays well I am living on almost 2,500 a month. Love your videos!
Very educational in terms of the calculation method. I am more interested in your example spreadsheet shown in the video. Could you please consider to share the example spreadsheet? I want to use the example to build my own spreadsheet to work on my SS benefit. Thanks again.
Hi, sorry if this was covered. If I am planning to file at 62.5 months and my full retirement is 66.6 (1957), would I pay the additional 5% penalty for the entire year because I’m not within three years of retirement?
Thank you, Devin - I did all of the calculations for the AIME and the PIA - am I correct that in the second part of the PIA formula, if my AIME amount is less than the higher SSA published bend point for the year 2015, I use my particular AIME value - not the upper end of the range published by SSA. For example, as I calculate it, my AIME is $3327.00 - So, am I correct that the PIA formula for me is .9(826) + .32(3327 - 826) + .15(0) = $743.40 + $800.32 (utilizing 2015 bend points) 1543.00 PIA
How to calculate spouse SS income ? Some wives do not work, so how are they paid? Some do work but made less than husband so how do they can pay? Is it based on the higher of the two? What if one passed away what will the window get? Can you make another clip covering spouse calculation? Thanks,
So what about when they keep charging you for overpayment I am still paying for exhusband 6 years and also paying every year I do the polls so do you think I should just retire now or what can you tell me what happens then.
If you do this calculation at age 62 and have no more earnings between age 62 and full retirement age, does that change your PIA amount at full retirement age or is it pretty much set at your SS earnings up to age 62 (other than COI adjustments)? More specifically, I'll likely have social security earnings in the four years following age 62 that will be higher than some of the years used in the calculation at age 62 and would make the average higher if the PIA was calculated at age 65. Is that not how it works?
If I understand correctly social security takes the highest 35 years of earnings. If you retire at 62 and have at least 35 years of earnings but don't take SS until FRA the will base your benefits on the 35 years you worked.
I am having trouble finding a job and am thinking of starting to collect SS. If I start collecting SS at 63 and then find a job, I know I have to pay some amount if I go over so much a year in additional income. Will be monthly benefits increase if I get a job that pays more than some of the 35 years used for calculating my current benefits ?
My husband and I both worked under SS for 22-25 years then he moved to Railroad and will retire w 20 years and I will retire under psrs w full benefits. Any suggestions s who can provide us w good advice. We have 3 yrs or 64 & 62 yrs old but are in the planning stage. The RR doesnt provide the best information or advice
I have a couple of questions, my step dad was fully vested in November 1974 and he had group employee benefits , whole life Inc health Inc and both my mother and myself where always covered myself from 1959 until his passing December 6 1974 my dad also received 50 shares of southern Pacific stock before they went on the stock exchange for public purchase my mother and I where both beneficiaries my mother first myself second there is also a last will and testament from both my mother and Dad my dad‘s pension was a private pension there is still $111,000,00 remaining of which they’re saying I have no right to but I happen to know that I do the union rep that signed as a witness of my dad‘s last will and testament has passed away as well as the other member of the union that was there in the office as well,my mother has passed away, as well as my uncle Harold whiting, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated thank you.
So are the bend points locked once you’ve established what they are at 62? Is the benefit amount inflated or current $? The SS website does both and it recognized that I have no earnings over next 5 years ( I think 😉) therefore my top 35 indexed earnings are established. Please advise. Thanks !!!! This is very helpful
I actually have a similar question. I'm 53 now and using this formula calculate my PIA at 3255.00. But i'm not sure if those are in 2019 dollars or in 2033 dollars.
The estimates are in today's dollars. Kinda... The estimate provided by the SSA uses today's dollars. If you use that estimate, you'll need to increase your PIA to account for inflation. If you are doing the calculator manually, as illustrated in this video, it should give you the future dollar calculation.
I am on SSDI for last 20 years and am turning 65 in November 2022 at which time I’m told they will switch to retirement benefits. I spoke with two people from SS who told me my benefit amount should be the same as my SSDI amount. I am fearful that that is not true. I have 20 years of. Zeros and had my own small business in the five years prior to being I’ll. I am petrified as I cannot live on much less and I wish I had not become chronically I’ll, like I had a choice. I should have planned better and thought about this. I did not file taxes while on SSDI and MediCal. I have received an inheritance also, which I am trying to figure out how I can stay on full MediCal with MSP extra help. Also, I change automatically from SSDI to retirement at 65 My fra should be 66/6months. Will that also lower my benefit. Please help.
Hello Devin, This is a great video. Question, I have 40 years earned and plan to stop working at 62. No earnings next 5 years, just live off savings and then file at 67. Will the 35 highest years of Index Earnings have to be the last 35 highest years (including 5 years of 0 earnings) or just simply the 35 highest year earnings?
Why would you wait five years to start collecting, you will never make up the difference that you would be collecting now for those five years you did not collect. If you stopped working you should have taken it right at the age of 62
I love to know things about how to calculate money in any compains or offices like Banks and others is my great wish. In this case the first step In social Security Index. Like your monthly Earnings at the age of 65 with all the income that are coming to their porkets should be claculated. I like your steps of explanations. Thanks so much.
Drew as @age 67 but continued working part up until 2019 went full time again. Now at 70 I want to retire but the income for the past 2 years higher than any of my previous years. How do we calculate for current income?
The bend points confused me. It is not clear? What is the current year bend point and the Current 2nd ? What? If my retirement age for 62 is 2030, what are the bend numbers? And, i was born in 1968, so my retirement is 67?
Paul's CCNA The bend points are the two numbers used in the SS benefits formula. They are called this because a graph with these numbers bends at these points. You can find the current year bend points at www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/bendpoints.html
where are the credits earned so far? Or, where can I see how many credits I have? I can't seem to find that information at the Social Security website. Does anyone know?
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