Here I Show how I clean 78 rpm records. I do it in three steps. Screanshot of wave file before and after and some music before and after. How to clean schellac records.
Thank you! Yes, the changes of sound improvment over youtube is subtile but more audible in the room and it is also reflected in the waveform of audacity.
@@acghifiaudio-vinyland78rpm53 To me it was night and day! I actually thought you applied an a low-pass filter to the clean result at first. Really impressive!
That is understandable and I only use this metod every now and then and with my special favourites or if I want to make a digital transfer. To clea all my records would take a long time!
Agreed interesting and thanks for sharing that. I've had a hunch for a while that some degree of polishing could yield results but have not had the guts to try it! (I've been using a very conservative wet cleaning method...). A buddy of mine deals with a lot of rare but horrible condition records - he uses Paraffin wax on them with apparently good results (another thing I've dared not try yet...). When I have some time I want to experiment with these techniques - would use a microscope to examine both the surfaces and debris carefully before doing it on valuable records. Thanks I enjoyed the video!
I use the wet cleaning method when I find records that are really messy but avoid it if possible. Have never tried paraffin but it shure sound interesting and I can understand that the paraffine could fill the smallest cracks and eaven out smallestdamages but how is it applied. I have tried furniture polish/wax that does a similar job. Let us know when you have tried the method and explain how it went. Thanks for the comment!
About the wet cleeining I would be somewhat careful with older records. Some made before and during the 20's seem to be made with a paper or fibre material inside which could take up humidity and get damaged. Unfortunately some noise cannot be cleaned away because They are not to dirty but it's the record compound itself that makes the noise or the sometime have a recorded noise which must come from the recording equipment or such. Yes, A good idea to experiment before taking on the Robert Johnson originals. Tried a microscope but couldn't see much. Guess you need a rather powerful scope or perhaps my sight is not good enough. :)
That's an interesting technique. It's pretty labor intensive. Personally I use a DIY vacuum record cleaning machine. I apply a small amount of solution comprised of VWR Scientic's Labtone solution this is formulated to clean glass laboratory equipment. I use a small cotton makeup pad to distribute it on the record. Sometimes more than one application is needed. Once cleaned with Labtone, I rinse with distilled water gently sprayed on the record and then distributed with a paint pad. This is then vacuumed off with the wand, which is from a VPI record cleaning machine. I then transcribe using a Parasound ZPhono USB preamp with the USB plugged into my computer. From there I do restoration of the signal using Adobe Audition software.
Thank you for the comment and for your tips. Yes my method is very labour intensive. I can't cleam more than 3-4 records each time. I have never seen the Labtone solution but I have tried different cleaning agents and they work well. Unfortunately I haven't found a substitute for my labour intensive, shoulder destroyer-method even if I would like to. I have a lot of records to clean. After all a cleaning machine is perhaps worth the expense. I use a custom built preamp with RIAA and EQ settings for older records. One setting I use frequently is the 250-flat. I uploaded a really nice sounding record with Bing Crosby and Louis Armstrong tonight. Have you uploaded any transfers. Always interesting to compare results of different tecniques. Thanks again for describing your process.
@@acghifiaudio-vinyland78rpm53 I have only recently gotten internet that will allow me to upload files. I need to work on setting up to do that. I have some Okeh Electric of Louis Armstrong and the Hot 5 that I should share. The Parasound preamp outputs either a RIAA or a flat signal. The latter allows me to apply the best fitting parametric EQ. It's nice to run into someone with similar interests.
Far too labor intensive to yield less than perfect results imo. Wet cleaning is the only way I have found to properly clean a record. It's not only dust that is in the grooves but any number of contaminants could be in there even fused to the bottom/sides of the groove. I use the Groovmaster label saver device and sink wash with a sponge and a little blue dawn. Final rinse is with distilled water and then air dry. The Groovmaster is designed for 45 and LP only but standard size mason jar rubber seals can be used to accommodate 78s as well. Just cut the outer lip off and position the rubber seal around the 78 label and then place the Groovmaster plate on top, flip, repeat and tighten. You'll have just enough clearance to reach the outer most grooves of a 78 with a soft cloth.
Great information and method. Your results are outstanding! I have cases of 78s. Grew up listening to them. Need a usb computer turntable. Can you recommend a good one?
I know there are plenty of new record players that can play 78's now but unfortunately I have no experience with them. I bougt some of my stuff for more than 30 years ago and it still works fine. I also whant to experiment with tube preamplifier and have built both preamplifier and power amplifiers and I guess that would be much more difficult or require a whole new skill to do it with digital systems like USB ports and so on. I also like the sound from ortofone cartridges and I believe that they would be to heavy to mount on modern tonearms, But I could be wrong.
The results at 16:45 would be very interesting to compare. It would be great if there were a tool to subtract the signal of the clean record from that of the dirty record so that one could then analyse the difference. But making a tool like that is probably a tall order. Far easier I guess would be to analyse the spectra of the two recordings and compare them. Looking at the signals, I reckon the day when AI tools will be used to not only recover the original signal and remove any surface or other noise that is embedded in the signal during the recording is probably not very far off. I guess then such a tool could be used to identify the separate instruments and perhaps even separate the sound out for each contributor to the piece. One could then choose whether to enrich the sound by artificially injecting the part of the spectrum of each instrument that was filtered out during the recording. Of course, while that might be ok to do for one track or two by the enthusiast, it's not a task that can be performed on a large scale by anyone else other than large recording studios or records companies - at least for the time being that is.
Thank you for your comment. Yes I guess with correct software a lot could be done for recording purpose. I like to listen in the room directly and have tried a numbers of filter and noise supressors like dolby, dbx, compressors and so on but are not using the anymore. guess my hearing is now filtering away some noise.:) Some time back a lot of 78's were transfered by the record companys to 33. But onestly, when listening to some of them i prefere the original even if they have mor noise. I would guess they could do better now if they gave it a try.
It's very useful to know your opinion of noise supressors. I'd think that de-noisers and de-clickers are primarily of value to radio stations Then again I have never used one and would not know if there are good ones about. I agree about the 33 1/3 transfers@@acghifiaudio-vinyland78rpm53 . I have some 33 1/3 records which are transfers from 78s. Errr... they're not great by any means and only worth having if you have no other way to listen to the material recorded.
Do you have a link or specific name to search for the cleaning brushes, I’ve used a tooth brush to clean records but want to use a big brush, thanks !!
Sorry for not replying sooner. I have seen them on internet. the more modern "carbon-fibre" does not work at all. At least not if the record is dirty. I usually find the at flee markets and such.
I wonder how the wood glue method would work with shellac. Wider grooves should make it easier for the glue to get in there and extract the dirt. But maybe it bonds with the shellac!? :-D I should do some tests.
I have a question, my late uncle gave me a milk crate of 78s before he passed and their are about like 10 or more early RCA one sided disc that to me look like they have never been played or even handled much for that matter. I guess you could classify them as "new-old stock". Would they be worth anything? Not planning on selling them because I plan on making a record room and I love the designs on the sides with no music and they will look great hanging, I am just curious as I have never seen 78s in such new condition before. Thank you for any help and for the vid. :)
Nice to hear. I would guess that one sided records always has a value but it's difficult to say how much. luckily there are several websites and auctions which can give you an idea of the value. One is Discogs and you can always look at E-bay. Could be difficult anyway if the record is very rare, which one sided can be sometime. To make digital transfers from records that are never played is really fun. Those into that will for sure pay extra for a record with no wear and damages. Best of luck with your wall-art :)
Nice and yes, I am thinking about getting into record collecting again. I have yet to get any cylinders but thanks to videos like yours I am deff getting the collecting bug for cylinders for sure, lol. Thanks for the answer. :)@@acghifiaudio-vinyland78rpm53
sorry for not responding sooner. I have used a variety of cartridges over the years. My favourite has always been the Ortofone type C, SPU (mono) , type A but they have been extreemely expensive back in the days and I couldn't afford them so I experimentet with just about everything else. If you go back and look at some of my early recordings, in this channel, I used the GE (General Electric) UPX and VR cartridges that were used a lot in juke-boxes in the 40-50's. unfortunately the cartridge is only one part in the whole chain, Ortofon cartridges ar MC and require step up transformers and suitable preamplifier with somewhat correct equalisation curves for 78. Somewhat different from 33.
Very useful guide and the results are very interesting. I have a couple of comments, however. a) Step 3 at 14:10 is probably very risky. If you are not very strong or tired or had a rough day, is best to avoid this procedure and maybe leave instead for when you are relaxed and not in a hurry. I also think the risk of the record slipping or being mishandled is significant. Then again, I haven't tried it so I can't be sure. b) Does all this rubbing introduce static charge and if so, how do you deal with it? The playback set up is very impressive indeed. What is that brass counterweight on the SME 3012? Is it a diy affair and how was it made? Also what cartridge to you use? One last comment: I saw the records stored resting at an angle against the sides of a box. I think this is not optimal and may introduce warping or cause bending of the records, particularly the vinyl records. I'm not sure whether the effect will be the same on shellacs. I've seen many shellac collectors stack them horizontally however and never more than 10-20 records high stacked at a time. I'd guess there's a reason for that and I'd suppose it would be to avoid risking any deformation being caused by the stresses applied to the record during storage. For vinyl records I think it suffices to store them vertically provided there are not gaps left.
Thank you for your comments. I have not yet broken any records with my cleaning method but onestly one or two... in pure handling, slipping and so on. But if a record has a crack before cleaning it would probably brake. usually i notice while cleaning before that step. The original counterweight for 3012 II is not heavy enough for the heavyer SPU's, type A or type C which are all 30-38 gram. I bought the counterweight in a shop some 30 years ago but I have seen old and new for sale on e-bay. A DIY is easyly made with a lathe and a pice of brass. Yes they get warped some time. Not as easy as 33 but it happens. I use two heavy Lenco platters (sorry for that lenco entusiasts), warm them somewhat and use baking paper between them and the record. can do without paper but if one heat to much it sucks to the platters. That flattems them out pretty good.
Thank you for the gear information@@acghifiaudio-vinyland78rpm53. SPUs are probably premium cartridges for 78 rpm records. I'd love to get to hear them and to be able to compare them with others one day. Whether records will warp when stored leaning at an angle is a matter of a few factors, temperature cycling is one of them. Humidity would be another for shellacs only though. I'd prefer not to risk it at all as it is so easy to store them vertically: all one has to do is fill the empty space shelf space with something slightly compliant e.g. books, magazines or equivalent. You lose the convenience of easy access of course, which is the price you pay.
@@Stelios.Posantzis With new gear on the market, more modern cartridges we can expect som of the older goind down in price. My favourite cartridge for older 78's is of course the Ortofone type C with a 90um diamond. It was specially made for professional use and can handle signals from below 20 Hz to 16-18 KHz. Will be able to play anything recorded on a 78.Sounds amazing but require an input transformer with primary impedance of preferably below 10 OHM and the correct impedance for the preamplifier used. somewhat tricky but the sound is amazing. Yes, my favorite records are stored correct as you describe it, others are stored semicorrect and a whole bunch are stored in boxes ( not those you se in the video) in basement, attics garages, vertically, horisontaly and worse. well simply everywere. Have lost count on them long time ago :)
Thank you for this information@@acghifiaudio-vinyland78rpm53. It is very useful. I think I have 2 78rpm cartridges: a Decca and a Pierre Clement. The latter is of the L7 type I think, although I can't be sure about the Decca - I've been after one for so long that maybe I have dreamt of having one. Sadly, I haven't had the chance to set either up yet. The problem is that they are so different and particular about mounting that it is next to impossible to try them on the same arm. Maybe it is possible to try them on a Pierre Clement turntable. Anyway, as you said, these are very old, probably of antique value compared to modern solutions. If one has lots of records, storage fast becomes a problem. I guess that's why the IKEA shelving has become ubiquitous as it is probably the cheapest quick-fix solution. It's far from ideal, though, and it is very heavy and unwieldy for the larger shelving units. But one has to start somewhere....so I guess it could be a good partial solution. I like the record crates one now finds sold in the US, e.g. like those made by Mapleshadestore or other similar ones. There are other companies that make replicas of similar a design that was popular in the '70s and '80s. I can't remember the name now but I can look it up if you want. These can be very easily made diy, and with small alterations could be made to be fully enclosed and of suitable size for 78 rpm shellacs. Their main advantage of course is being stackable, easy to assemble/disassemble and very light. At a push, one could order the pieces to be cut and then do the assembly oneself. It's slightly costlier but a far better solution than anything IKEA has to offer.
Thanks sir.i have a toshiba turntable(usb,blutooth etc).but while playing 78rmp records the arm returns to staring point even before the record is completely played(30 seconds before the full time of the song). what should I do sir.is there any remidy for it
Does your turntable have automatic return at stop? 78's has a smaller centrum and if you have an automatic return it has to change to start and stop at a different distance from spindle than what it does for 33. If it does not have automatic return and the stylus jumps up from the track and slides back on the surface of the records, the it has to do with other things. Wrong stylus overhan, not enough tracking force, antiskate not adjusted or out of range etc.
I’m sorry but the first recording and the second recording sound Different because he has turned down high and mid EQ !!! The first recording sounds tinea so that’s how I know that he has turned down the high and mid probably at 10% just another form of filtering
Automatic start, stop and return was invented end of 40(?) or before that. I have worked a lot to adjust some of them but it is somewhat timeconsuming and I have abandoned everything what "automatic" is use only hand manuvered turntables. I hope you get it to work.
Yes. That works. I tried it many years ago and it is quite effektive. Unfortunately my comptessor is old and some oilmist follows with the air. Leaving a fine oily residue on the record gunking up the cartridge needle. It was as well difficult to get it even over the surface leaving some dust left. One could trying doing it while the record is spinning but I need to install a air cleaner filter on my air hose before trying again. Thanks for the comment!
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