How to determine false teachers

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In our last OPEN MAT Q&A a viewer asked JM about assessing different theology teachers...
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Опубликовано:

4 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 31

@cecilly59 22 дня назад

Great points and references. Thank you!

@ArleneAdkinsZell 23 дня назад

Thank you for your great answer, love that detail 'the why.'

@flowerlass 23 дня назад

I am in 100% agreement with you, especially the need for doctrine and to be able to say the words "social justice" without being labeled a Marxist. I can't think of one person in the Reformed Church that I am a member of who equates social justice with the Bible. Anyone who says those words is automatically considered a leftist radical. The other thing I hear is, "Show me where it says the words social justice in the Bible. You can't. You are welcome."

@Clarke441 6 дней назад

Why so many denominations today every where you look.There’s a different denomination on every corner of a town in America.🇺🇸 3:43

@DrGero15 23 дня назад

What is the group for Methodists?

@DiscipleDojo 23 дня назад

@@DrGero15 I can't remember which one it was. It was on Facebook, but there are a couple of them and I don't remember the one this discussion was in.

@DrGero15 23 дня назад

@@DiscipleDojo What are the ones on Facebook? I'd like to look into them to learn more about Methodism.

@alex-qe8qn 23 дня назад

A spirited word, brother! Would you accept that “the doctrine” of “the Trinity” should not be made a subject of heresy-hunting?

@PInk77W1 23 дня назад

The Trinity is 100% truth

@DiscipleDojo 23 дня назад

@@alex-qe8qn see the video here on the playlist where I answer that question specifically.

@joestfrancois 23 дня назад

@@PInk77W1 wrote "The Trinity is 100% truth" LOL.

@PInk77W1 23 дня назад

@@joestfrancois do u believe God is father ?

@joestfrancois 23 дня назад

@@PInk77W1 wrote "do u believe God is father ?" Which god, and what do you mean by believe?

@SpotterVideo 23 дня назад

All man-made Bible doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work. New Covenant Whole Gospel: How many modern Christians cannot honestly answer the questions below? Who is the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Who is the “son” that is the “heir” to the land in Matthew 21:37-43? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary? What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8, 3:16? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. God is not now a “racist”. He has extended His love to all races of people through the New Covenant fulfilled by His Son’s blood at Calvary. The Apostle Paul warned against using “genealogies” in our faith in 1 Tim. 1:4, and Titus 3:9. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the RU-vid videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

@DiscipleDojo 23 дня назад

@@SpotterVideo please don't just copy/paste stuff here. That's not discussion, it's regurgitation.

@SpotterVideo 23 дня назад

@@DiscipleDojo When someone posts the scriptures to show their viewpoint is correct, do you label that "regurgitation"? The scriptures in this article prove a person must be "baptized" to be saved, but it has nothing to do with water. What I think means nothing. What did God say in His Word? Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

@mdp_lady 23 дня назад

So complementarianism and Calvinism both have, at their core, a teaching that covertly promotes looking down on others; a condescending arrogant attitude of the heart and that to me is why I believe those two topics should be included in the nonnegotiables. It’s not fruit of the Spirit… Anyways I’m working through hard somethings, but I am grateful to have an outlet like Discipline Dojo!

@PInk77W1 23 дня назад

Jesus started one church The Roman Catholic Church. Martin Luther started 1000s of churches. Jesus said Father let them be one. Jn 17 Luther said anyone can figure the Bible out by themselves they don’t need no church or pope.

@DiscipleDojo 23 дня назад

@@PInk77W1 nope. The Orthodox Church is older than Roman Catholicism.

@leedettweiler717 23 дня назад

Incorrect. Christ started one church, The church of God. Acts 20:28 he purchased the Church h of God with his own blood. 1 Corinthians 1:2 Galatians 1:13 1 Timothy 3:5 The holy Roman Catholic Church of God was indeed a part of the Church of God at one point, but because of Sin and abandonment of the Word and Spirt became false religion. Thus began the history of churches upon churches. Yet today there is still only one Church, the Church of God. If you believe in Jesus Christ and repent of your sin, you are placed automatically into the one true church. The spirt of god then can lead you into all truth.

@PInk77W1 23 дня назад

@@leedettweiler717 Popes Jesus picked 1. St. Peter (32-67) 2. St. Linus (67-76) 3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) 4. St. Clement I (88-97) 5. St. Evaristus (97-105) 6. St. Alexander I (105-115) 7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) 8. St. Telesphorus (125-136) 9. St. Hyginus (136-140) 10. St. Pius I (140-155) 11. St. Anicetus (155-166) 12. St. Soter (166-175) 13. St. Eleutherius (175-189) 14. St. Victor I (189-199) 15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217) 16. St. Callistus I (217-22) 17. St. Urban I (222-30) 18. St. Pontian (230-35) 19. St. Anterus (235-36) 20. St. Fabian (236-50) 21. St. Cornelius (251-53) 22. St. Lucius I (253-54) 23. St. Stephen I (254-257) 24. St. Sixtus II (257-258) 25. St. Dionysius (260-268) 26. St. Felix I (269-274) 27. St. Eutychian (275-283) 28. St. Caius (283-296) 29. St. Marcellinus (296-304) 30. St. Marcellus I (308-309) 31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310) 32. St. Miltiades (311-14) 33. St. Sylvester I (314-35) 34. St. Marcus (336) 35. St. Julius I (337-52) 36. Liberius (352-66) 37. St. Damasus I (366-384) 38. St. Siricius (384-99) 39. St. Anastasius I (399-401) 40. St. Innocent I (401-17) 41. St. Zosimus (417-18) 42. St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419) 43. St. Celestine I (422-32) 44. St. Sixtus III (432-40) 45. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61) 46. St. Hilarius (461-68) 47. St. Simplicius (468-83) 48. St. Felix III (II) (483-92) 49. St. Gelasius I (492-96) 50. Anastasius II (496-98) 51. St. Symmachus (498-514) 52. St. Hormisdas (514-23) 53. St. John I (523-26) 54. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30) 55. Boniface II (530-32) 56. John II (533-35) 57. St. Agapetus I (535-36) 58. St. Silverius (536-37) 59. Vigilius (537-55) 60. Pelagius I (556-61) 61. John III (561-74) 62. Benedict I (575-79) 63. Pelagius II (579-90) 64. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604) 65. Sabinian (604-606) 66. Boniface III (607) 67. St. Boniface IV (608-15) 68. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18) 69. Boniface V (619-25) 70. Honorius I (625-38) 71. Severinus (640) 72. John IV (640-42) 73. Theodore I (642-49) 74. St. Martin I (649-55) 75. St. Eugene I (655-57) 76. St. Vitalian (657-72) 77. Adeodatus (II) (672-76) 78. Donus (676-78) 79. St. Agatho (678-81) 80. St. Leo II (682-83) 81. St. Benedict II (684-85) 82. John V (685-86) 83. Conon (686-87) 84. St. Sergius I (687-701) 85. John VI (701-05) 86. John VII (705-07) 87. Sisinnius (708) 88. Constantine (708-15) 89. St. Gregory II (715-31) 90. St. Gregory III (731-41) 91. St. Zachary (741-52) 92. Stephen II (III) (752-57) 93. St. Paul I (757-67) 94. Stephen III (IV) (767-772) 95. Adrian I (772-95) 96. St. Leo III (795-816) 97. Stephen IV (V) (816-17) 98. St. Paschal I (817-24) 99. Eugene II (824-27) 100. Valentine (827) 101. Gregory IV (827-44) 102. Sergius II (844-47) 103. St. Leo IV (847-55) 104. Benedict III (855-58) 105. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67) 106. Adrian II (867-72) 107. John VIII (872-82) 108. Marinus I (882-84) 109. St. Adrian III (884-85) 110. Stephen V (VI) (885-91) 111. Formosus (891-96) 112. Boniface VI (896) 113. Stephen VI (VII) (896-97) 114. Romanus (897) 115. Theodore II (897) 116. John IX (898-900) 117. Benedict IV (900-03) 118. Leo V (903) 119. Sergius III (904-11) 120. Anastasius III (911-13) 121. Lando (913-14) 122. John X (914-28) 123. Leo VI (928) 124. Stephen VIII (929-31) 125. John XI (931-35) 126. Leo VII (936-39) 127. Stephen IX (939-42) 128. Marinus II (942-46) 129. Agapetus II (946-55) 130. John XII (955-63) 131. Leo VIII (963-64) 132. Benedict V (964) 133. John XIII (965-72) 134. Benedict VI (973-74) 135. Benedict VII (974-83) 136. John XIV (983-84) 137. John XV (985-96) 138. Gregory V (996-99) 139. Sylvester II (999-1003) 140. John XVII (1003) 141. John XVIII (1003-09) 142. Sergius IV (1009-12) 143. Benedict VIII (1012-24) 144. John XIX (1024-32) 145. Benedict IX (1032-45) 146. Sylvester III (1045) 147. Benedict IX (1045) 148. Gregory VI (1045-46) 149. Clement II (1046-47) 150. Benedict IX (1047-48) 151. Damasus II (1048) 152. St. Leo IX (1049-54) 153. Victor II (1055-57) 154. Stephen X (1057-58) 155. Nicholas II (1058-61) 156. Alexander II (1061-73) 157. St. Gregory VII (1073-85) 158. Blessed Victor III (1086-87) 159. Blessed Urban II (1088-99) 160. Paschal II (1099-1118) 161. Gelasius II (1118-19) 162. Callistus II (1119-24) 163. Honorius II (1124-1130) 164. Innocent II (1130-43) 165. Celestine II (1143-44) 166. Lucius II (1144-45) 167. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53) 168. Anastasius IV (1153-54) 169. Adrian IV (1154-59) 170. Alexander III (1159-81) 171. Lucius III (1181-85) 172. Urban III (1185-87) 173. Gregory VIII (1187) 174. Clement III (1187-91) 175. Celestine III (1191-98) 176. Innocent III (1198-1216) 177. Honorius III (1216-27) 178. Gregory IX (1227-41) 179. Celestine IV (1241) 180. Innocent IV (1243-54) 181. Alexander IV (1254-61) 182. Urban IV (1261-64) 183. Clement IV (1265-68) 184. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76) 185. Blessed Innocent V (1276) 186. Adrian V (1276) 187. John XXI (1276-77) 188. Nicholas III (1277-80) 189. Martin IV (1281-85) 190. Honorius IV (1285-87) 191. Nicholas IV (1288-92) 192. St. Celestine V (1294) 193. Boniface VIII (1294-1303) 194. Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04) 195. Clement V (1305-14) 196. John XXII (1316-34) 197. Benedict XII (1334-42) 198. Clement VI (1342-52) 199. Innocent VI (1352-62) 200. Blessed Urban V (1362-70) 201. Gregory XI (1370-78) 202. Urban VI (1378-89) 203. Boniface IX (1389-1404) 204. Innocent VII (1404-06) 205. Gregory XII (1406-15) 206. Martin V (1417-31) 207. Eugene IV (1431-47) ( 208. Nicholas V (1447-55) 209. Callistus III (1455-58) 210. Pius II (1458-64) 211. Paul II (1464-71) 212. Sixtus IV (1471-84) 213. Innocent VIII (1484-92) 214. Alexander VI (1492-1503) 215. Pius III (1503) 216. Julius II (1503-13) 217. Leo X (1513-21) 218. Adrian VI (1522-23) 219. Clement VII (1523-34) 220. Paul III (1534-49) 221. Julius III (1550-55) 222. Marcellus II (1555) 223. Paul IV (1555-59) 224. Pius IV (1559-65) 225. St. Pius V (1566-72) 226. Gregory XIII (1572-85) 227. Sixtus V (1585-90) 228. Urban VII (1590) 229. Gregory XIV (1590-91) 230. Innocent IX (1591) 231. Clement VIII (1592-1605) 232. Leo XI (1605) 233. Paul V (1605-21) 234. Gregory XV (1621-23) 235. Urban VIII (1623-44) 236. Innocent X (1644-55) 237. Alexander VII (1655-67) 238. Clement IX (1667-69) 239. Clement X (1670-76) 240. Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89) 241. Alexander VIII (1689-91) 242. Innocent XII (1691-1700) 243. Clement XI (1700-21) 244. Innocent XIII (1721-24) 245. Benedict XIII (1724-30) 246. Clement XII (1730-40) 247. Benedict XIV (1740-58) 248. Clement XIII (1758-69) 249. Clement XIV (1769-74) 250. Pius VI (1775-99) 251. Pius VII (1800-23) 252. Leo XII (1823-29) 253. Pius VIII (1829-30) 254. Gregory XVI (1831-46) 255. Blessed Pius IX (1846-78) 256. Leo XIII (1878-1903) 257. St. Pius X (1903-14) 258. Benedict XV (1914-22) 259. Pius XI (1922-39) 260. Pius XII (1939-58) 261. St. John XXIII (1958-63) 262. Paul VI (1963-78) 263. John Paul I (1978) 264. St. John Paul II (1978-2005) 265. Benedict XVI (2005-2013) 266. Francis (2013 to Present

@PInk77W1 23 дня назад

@@DiscipleDojo Popes Jesus picked 1. St. Peter (32-67) 2. St. Linus (67-76) 3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) 4. St. Clement I (88-97) 5. St. Evaristus (97-105) 6. St. Alexander I (105-115) 7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) 8. St. Telesphorus (125-136) 9. St. Hyginus (136-140) 10. St. Pius I (140-155) 11. St. Anicetus (155-166) 12. St. Soter (166-175) 13. St. Eleutherius (175-189) 14. St. Victor I (189-199) 15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217) 16. St. Callistus I (217-22) 17. St. Urban I (222-30) 18. St. Pontian (230-35) 19. St. Anterus (235-36) 20. St. Fabian (236-50) 21. St. Cornelius (251-53) 22. St. Lucius I (253-54) 23. St. Stephen I (254-257) 24. St. Sixtus II (257-258) 25. St. Dionysius (260-268) 26. St. Felix I (269-274) 27. St. Eutychian (275-283) 28. St. Caius (283-296) 29. St. Marcellinus (296-304) 30. St. Marcellus I (308-309) 31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310) 32. St. Miltiades (311-14) 33. St. Sylvester I (314-35) 34. St. Marcus (336) 35. St. Julius I (337-52) 36. Liberius (352-66) 37. St. Damasus I (366-384) 38. St. Siricius (384-99) 39. St. Anastasius I (399-401) 40. St. Innocent I (401-17) 41. St. Zosimus (417-18) 42. St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419) 43. St. Celestine I (422-32) 44. St. Sixtus III (432-40) 45. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61) 46. St. Hilarius (461-68) 47. St. Simplicius (468-83) 48. St. Felix III (II) (483-92) 49. St. Gelasius I (492-96) 50. Anastasius II (496-98) 51. St. Symmachus (498-514) 52. St. Hormisdas (514-23) 53. St. John I (523-26) 54. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30) 55. Boniface II (530-32) 56. John II (533-35) 57. St. Agapetus I (535-36) 58. St. Silverius (536-37) 59. Vigilius (537-55) 60. Pelagius I (556-61) 61. John III (561-74) 62. Benedict I (575-79) 63. Pelagius II (579-90) 64. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604) 65. Sabinian (604-606) 66. Boniface III (607) 67. St. Boniface IV (608-15) 68. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18) 69. Boniface V (619-25) 70. Honorius I (625-38) 71. Severinus (640) 72. John IV (640-42) 73. Theodore I (642-49) 74. St. Martin I (649-55) 75. St. Eugene I (655-57) 76. St. Vitalian (657-72) 77. Adeodatus (II) (672-76) 78. Donus (676-78) 79. St. Agatho (678-81) 80. St. Leo II (682-83) 81. St. Benedict II (684-85) 82. John V (685-86) 83. Conon (686-87) 84. St. Sergius I (687-701) 85. John VI (701-05) 86. John VII (705-07) 87. Sisinnius (708) 88. Constantine (708-15) 89. St. Gregory II (715-31) 90. St. Gregory III (731-41) 91. St. Zachary (741-52) 92. Stephen II (III) (752-57) 93. St. Paul I (757-67) 94. Stephen III (IV) (767-772) 95. Adrian I (772-95) 96. St. Leo III (795-816) 97. Stephen IV (V) (816-17) 98. St. Paschal I (817-24) 99. Eugene II (824-27) 100. Valentine (827) 101. Gregory IV (827-44) 102. Sergius II (844-47) 103. St. Leo IV (847-55) 104. Benedict III (855-58) 105. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67) 106. Adrian II (867-72) 107. John VIII (872-82) 108. Marinus I (882-84) 109. St. Adrian III (884-85) 110. Stephen V (VI) (885-91) 111. Formosus (891-96) 112. Boniface VI (896) 113. Stephen VI (VII) (896-97) 114. Romanus (897) 115. Theodore II (897) 116. John IX (898-900) 117. Benedict IV (900-03) 118. Leo V (903) 119. Sergius III (904-11) 120. Anastasius III (911-13) 121. Lando (913-14) 122. John X (914-28) 123. Leo VI (928) 124. Stephen VIII (929-31) 125. John XI (931-35) 126. Leo VII (936-39) 127. Stephen IX (939-42) 128. Marinus II (942-46) 129. Agapetus II (946-55) 130. John XII (955-63) 131. Leo VIII (963-64) 132. Benedict V (964) 133. John XIII (965-72) 134. Benedict VI (973-74) 135. Benedict VII (974-83) 136. John XIV (983-84) 137. John XV (985-96) 138. Gregory V (996-99) 139. Sylvester II (999-1003) 140. John XVII (1003) 141. John XVIII (1003-09) 142. Sergius IV (1009-12) 143. Benedict VIII (1012-24) 144. John XIX (1024-32) 145. Benedict IX (1032-45) 146. Sylvester III (1045) 147. Benedict IX (1045) 148. Gregory VI (1045-46) 149. Clement II (1046-47) 150. Benedict IX (1047-48) 151. Damasus II (1048) 152. St. Leo IX (1049-54) 153. Victor II (1055-57) 154. Stephen X (1057-58) 155. Nicholas II (1058-61) 156. Alexander II (1061-73) 157. St. Gregory VII (1073-85) 158. Blessed Victor III (1086-87) 159. Blessed Urban II (1088-99) 160. Paschal II (1099-1118) 161. Gelasius II (1118-19) 162. Callistus II (1119-24) 163. Honorius II (1124-1130) 164. Innocent II (1130-43) 165. Celestine II (1143-44) 166. Lucius II (1144-45) 167. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53) 168. Anastasius IV (1153-54) 169. Adrian IV (1154-59) 170. Alexander III (1159-81) 171. Lucius III (1181-85) 172. Urban III (1185-87) 173. Gregory VIII (1187) 174. Clement III (1187-91) 175. Celestine III (1191-98) 176. Innocent III (1198-1216) 177. Honorius III (1216-27) 178. Gregory IX (1227-41) 179. Celestine IV (1241) 180. Innocent IV (1243-54) 181. Alexander IV (1254-61) 182. Urban IV (1261-64) 183. Clement IV (1265-68) 184. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76) 185. Blessed Innocent V (1276) 186. Adrian V (1276) 187. John XXI (1276-77) 188. 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St. John Paul II (1978-2005) 265. Benedict XVI (2005-2013) 266. Francis (2013 to Present

@joestfrancois 23 дня назад

Baptism the oldest debate in the Bible? OT aside, I think the oldest debate in the Bible is the faith vs works debate, included in the Bible itself. I know you are going to say I don't know enough to understand, but it isn't just stupid old me that argues this stuff. And when you talk about baptism, don't forget baptism for the dead, which Paul wrote about. I have never done a study of baptism, but even a cursory reading indicates there is no clear message in the bible on this subject, as with many subjects. Contradictions abound in the NT, they are the reasons for the debates. Ok, well every debate is not spawned by a contradiction, but many are.

@DiscipleDojo 23 дня назад

@@joestfrancois I'm not going to respond as long as you keep misrepresenting and then pouting over my criticism of your argument on a particular topic.

@joestfrancois 23 дня назад

@@DiscipleDojo JM, don't be silly. That I take exception to your categorizations of my understanding is a valid position. You tend to answer my positions by saying you have superior understanding of the subject matter. Now you fail to address a position because you have hurt feelings. Here, I will repost the statement without the snarky comment, lets see if you can address it now. - " Baptism the oldest debate in the Bible? OT aside, I think the oldest debate in the Bible is the faith vs works debate, included in the Bible itself. And when you talk about baptism, don't forget baptism for the dead, which Paul wrote about. I have never done a study of baptism, but even a cursory reading indicates there is no clear message in the bible on this subject, as with many subjects." That is pretty straightforward. Care to respond? Many theological debates are based on contradictions in the Bible. Your thoughts?

@DiscipleDojo 23 дня назад

@@joestfrancois I would say that we don't have much evidence that Christians saw a debate between "faith" and "works" until much later in Church history, after the Reformation at the earliesr, as far as I'm aware. Yes, there were many issues that Christians hammered out in the early church, so I may be missing some. But in terms of ongoing theological differences that continue to outwardly divide Christendom at an institutional level, the baptism one goes back all the way to the first post-Apostolic generations. That is why I said it's the oldest debate in church history. PS: Please don't confuse my annoyance at being mischaracterized with hurt feelings. I've pointed out your tendency to have more confidence than warranted when you act as if you've studied something fully and make definitive judgment statements that are dismissive (which seems to have really gotten under your skin since you have repeatedly brought it back up in nearly every comment you've left since then). But I've never mentioned intelligence, stupidity, superiority, or any of the other things you've accused me of. This is the Dojo. We spar here. Disagreement is welcome. Snark and false accusations isn't sparring, though. It's trolling. That's why I don't engage when you leave comments that contain such, and why I responded to this one that did not.

@joestfrancois 23 дня назад

@@DiscipleDojo wrote " I would say that we don't have much evidence that Christians saw a debate between "faith" and "works" until much later in Church history, " I see the passages in James about works and Paul's faith stuff alone as being a debate within the Bible itself. I have read stuff about this by some scholars as well, it is not my idea. So you are wrong about this. The debate over faith and works is in the New Testament itself. You can't wave it away and say it came later. As far as sparring and snarky, you do not spar with me, you tell me I don't know enough to make a statement. I may not know as much as you, but when I read something and give my opinion, it s a valid opinion. You don't give info on why it is not valid, you do as you have here in this little debate, just tell me I am wrong. If you just read the passages that include baptism and salvation, and I no longer like to pull out verses like that, by subject, but you can't help it sometimes, but if you read the passages, they do not agree. Sometimes it says you have to be baptized, sometimes it does not say you have to be baptized, and baptism for the dead is like saying you have to and trying to fix it for those who did not get baptized. I won't use the word "clearly' but the passages do not agree. Unless you include a convoluted explanation in an attempt to MAKE them agree. So when you tell me I don't know enough to make a statement I see it as I have not bought into a mountain of BS to try to say the Bible does not say what it says. The New Testament is clear as mud on many subjects and a lot of apologetics is to explain away what is written in the Bible.