How to Distinguish a late vs. early Bf 109 with  

85 years ago on this day did take off the first Messerschmitt Bf-109.

Truly the most ambitious crossover in History, Flo and Chris in one of Bernard's videos.

I always thought that the easiest way to distinguish an early 109 an the later ones was the extreme of the wings. In early models its more squared and in later ones the're rounded like an spitfire or something. I am wrong?

He missed another important visible big difference: the wing tip shape!!!

Identifying Bf Yep, it's Bf

I thought you would mention the square wingtips and the elbow-shaped air intake. Good vid nevertheless

That "Wehraboo" part, xD Let's just say that "F" is fitting for this.

Aerodynamically redesigned nose section including spinner, round wing tips (how would you miss that ?), redesigned oil cooler, redesigned wing mounted coolers, missing support struts under the elevators, round turbo charger intake (again, very significant), no wing mounted guns, actual working engine mounted gun, these are the visible differences between E and F. Adolf Galland used his very own specially field modified Fs: one had the 7,9 mm MGs replaced by 13 mm ones but without the ugly bubbles, the other had the same wing guns as the E-4. Only visible differences between F and early G (G-1 to G-4 that is) are the deletion of that triangular shaped glas panel below the windscreen, two small bulges on the upper wings due to wider tires and a deeper oil cooler. Wing gun pods were optional on both. One mostly unknown difference between F and G (if you look at old photos) would be the oil leaking off the G oil cooler, being visible under the belly or on the drop tank. For the glas panels on the F: they were often over-painted, so one could assume they were already deleted on the F. From G-5/6 onwards, cowling mounted 13mm MGs and the famous bubbles were added. The rack to mount a drop tank or bomb was fixed in place on most aircraft. Also from G-5/6 on, the Erla-Haube was introduced along with the tall wooden rudder. Engine mounted 30 mm MK108 was put into limited service. Some late G-5 and -6 (G-5/AS and G-6 AS, all with Erla and tall wooden tails) received specially charged DB 605AS engines for high altitude with larger turbo chargers, resulting in the asymetrically shaped cowling, that we usually know from the later K-4. Note: it wasn't introduced on the K and the shape was to accomodate both the 13 mm MGs and the larger supercharger, thus having the bigger bulge on the left side. G-14 was a try on standardization; Erla-Haube and tall wooden tail became standard. Still there was the "odd" high altitude model (G-14/AS) with the "K-4 cowling". G-10 came after G-14 and made the high performace DB 605D engine (similar to the AS engine) and the 30mm MK108 standard, thus the asymetrical cowling was there to stay. Late G-10s received even wider tires, resulting in huge bulges on the upper wings. Antenna masts were often deleted. K-4 was literally the same as G-10 with the addition of outer wheel well covers and a fully retractable tail wheel. Fw-190 next ?

cool to do a more detailed version. Early kestrel prototypes. g model wing tips, K model and post war Spanish mods

The most prominent feature is the continous lines of the front, across the engine cover and prop hub, of the Gustav and later. As opposed to the promonent edges of the E-model.

That's easy. The early ones are full of holes from .303 machine guns. The later ones are full of holes from 20mm cannons. 😋

You forgot the from 109f on they had round wing tips.

And rounded end on wings on later models, bulges over cannons over engine?

Bis out here almost running out of breath talking about the BF 109. Can't blame him though, did the same thing when making a 10 minute presentation on WW2 history back in high school.

Personally a good way to distinguish them is the little air filter next to the nose of the aircraft. With the early versions it has a lot of edges, but starting with the F it was rounded (and the tropical variants have an extended air filter for sand and dust in North Africa). Another feature is when the 7.92mm machine guns were changed to 13mm heavy machine guns. You can always tell which machine guns the 109 has because of the two bumps on the top of the nose (for the 13mm) starting with the G-6 I believe. There are of course other changes, but these are ones you can pretty much always rely on :)

G'day Harsh but constructive criticism follows... You said , "there were changes made..." about a thousand times, and almost every time you failed to go on to explain what any of the changes actually were....(Grrr !). You came accross like a Wannabe War Historian with a deep desire to present themself as knowing vastly more than they actually understand. Pretty much everything you say betrays your shallow misunderstanding. That Emil looked to have a Canopy off a Dietrich - which had less vertical Frame-Struts than did that of the E-model...; and the "later Canopy" - ie the "Galland 'Clearview' Hood", was not at all in any way "more rounded"..., because it was still composed of three Flat-Plane Surfaces projected back from the Windshield Frame..., it had larger unbraced Perspex Side-Panels - and from the rear end of the Canopy the bottom edge of the Rear Canopy-Fairing's Perspex was slightly curved, as it swept upwards. "there were more Ribs in the later Ailerons...", but you neglected to mention HOW MANY extra Ribs... There NEVER EVER WAS any Strut bracing the ELEVATOR on any Messerschmidt, nor on any other Hairygoplane either...; that Strut braces the HORIZONTAL STABILISOR, or "Tail-Plane" - whereas the ELEVATOR is the movable "Flappy Bit" hinged onto the rear-edge of the H. Stab. Didn't the Tailwheel RETRACT, on the Friedrich & Gustav, as against the fixed Dragmaker of the Emil ? (it slips my mind...). You should probably reshoot this, going slower, maybe with a handful of Cheat-Notes to remind you of the specifics behind, "...and on the later models this was also changed..." nonsense..., with which you repeatedly "confessed" to the Camera that you couldn't remember quite what the later changes actually consisted of being. Here in Oz we don't subscribe to the infamous AmeriKan motto of, "Fake it 'till you make it...! When we detect anybody attempting to make that sketchy Plot lift up and fly over the fence..., we condemn them for being a pathetic pretentious Tryhard-Wannabe... How you present yourself is up to you, but if nobody points out where you're making yourself look silly then you'll be in dire danger of believing all your own Bullshit - and everybody knows where that leads "Good Germans" (look up a bloke named Joseph Goebbels, he was once FAMOUS for believing his own Bullshit, and for quite a while the strategy appeared to be panning out quite well for him - but that didn't last). Harsh, but fair. Take it easy, Such is Life... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

I always distinguished between the major alphabetical differences in the aircraft by the presence (or absence) of the tail bracing struts, the shape of and length of wing, and the presence of the "G" model gun bulges ahead of the cockpit.

I remember back in 2008-10 on IL2 1946 modding forums where people would discuss in great detail differences between various 109E variants. I still know to this day about the early canopy of E3 and the new blocky one on E4. Damn those were the good times...

The real deal is distinguishing all the million versions of the Gustavs (I think something like 15 major ones too?). God, the modelling hobby has filled me with useless knowledge...

You forgot about the side-intake for the supercharger. It got bigger and round and an actually funnel.

The War Thunder mention is really icing on the cake

Maybe you should have mentioned the square vs round wingtips, as that is how allied pilots would have distinguished between the E and latter models....just saying 😶

nice video

Wing tips.

Did Bf 109 always that small or Bismarck is just really tall?.

What was the purpose / how did they decide what colors to paint each plane?

Try telling apart all the Gustav sub variants of the 109… so many and so much cross over. Hard to tell if you’re looking at a late G-6 or a G-14, the various AS sub variants can be hard to tell apart and easy to confuse with a G-10 at a glance.

It's a fucking bf109. BF. It was called bf109, the official designation.

Which plane really got you into aviation? My first tickle was like the Sopwith Camel as child, but what made me go full GEEEEEEEK was the JU 87 Stuka.

So an E-1 without the MG FF's in the wings......would it have the bulge under the wing or is this only on E-3's to E-7's ?

You stuck with a lot of tiny details and forgot the wing tips.

Early or late? neither. The BF109E was a Mid production design, you totally omitted the early jumo powered models, the BF109 B/C and D!

Dora, Emil, F and Gustav- if you can't identify each on sight, well you just are ignorant.

Bernard has split into two it seems

F-Y-I The ribs you were referring to are applicable for the ailerons, not for the flaps. Also some other external changes to the late4 version models (Gustav) will include bulges in/on the upper wing surfaces reflecting the larger sized main wheels, along with bulges on either side of the upper cowling in front of the cockpit front window. The bulges were needed to fit the larger breech assemblies of the increased caliber fuselage machine guns used on “G” and “K” versions. H-T-H.

That’s one sexy plane!

in k 4 the front part with the 2 machine guns is different for better visibility and aerodynamics probably

The 109E was an outstanding fighter. However the compromises needed to increase raw performance decreased it's overall effectiveness. After the E it was all fighting uphill for the 108 and it ceased to influence the course of the war. 1941 was it's end, yet it is the later variants that attract the fanboys. The 109K was not the fighter that people think it was either, it was not effective despite improved top speed. I've been thinking of doing my own video in order to show that the criticisms that get brushed off by the 109 fans were actually far more valid than people assume. The US alone built five fighters that were available in great quantities that were definitely superior to the 109. After the E, the 109 had flaws that made it an inferior fighter.

How could you miss the wing tips?In general,A to E variants are quite boxy,with sharp edges while F and later are getting more sleek and streamlined.

He missed out all the key differences except two ! Not an expert, should have been one of those the video was to educate ! Starting at the front the spinner has a large hole in the front, a ring of rivets would be here (pointing a few inches aft of the tip),this spinner is not genuine and missing such, and almost straight sides to it. The engine cowling has two vents here the aft edges being more bent (unlike the restored flyers and many models) revealing the engine corners inside. The top is not hinged down the middle and its profile is more angular , flat topped then at these vents suddenly changing angle to dowward as opposed to a gentle curve all the way along the top. It has a kidney tray shaped bulge here at its back edge, the sides of the bulge feather down and blend into the cowling unlike replicas. Cowling has a gap you can get finger tips into, being a larger radius than the rear cowling at the top. The exhausts have an L plate above and below them, the F and G shroud was only above and bends to half way down over them. The lower cowling has two bulges one more prominent and tear drop shape than the other and the underside radiator oil cooler is deeper often with a dividing flap inside. This cowling is removed completely whilst the F and G was hinged along the stbd side.The carburettor intake is more boxlike and smaller. The rear upper cowling has a pair of vent holes on top and vertical vents on the stbd side. The canopy has thinner frames all round, the E1 and some E3 had rounded top edges fore/aft for its entire length with a rounded top front glazing in sideview. E1 had machine guns MG17 in the wings so nothing protruding out of the wings, E3 could be the same machine guns or cannon MG-FF. E4 was MG-FF the barrels protruding out. A very visible difference was the wingtips, blunt whilst the F and G had rounded wingtips and a long pitot tube attached to the wing leading edge on the port side in that area. Flaps hang down only whilst the G opened in both directions. tailplane struts are only on the E. Tail fin edge dead straight up to the aerial post, the F and G radiuses round to the post. Fuel filler cap is lower down on the F and G and later G had de-boile, large blisters here (points fwd of windscreen). Wings dont have small blisters here above the tyre bays whereas later with larger wheels such were added. Some G's had a 'Galland' hood where the middle and rear units were as one. In summary the immediate things to look for are spinner, cowling side profile, wingtips, carb air intake and tailplane struts.

I only really tell "early ones from later ones" at a glance and the most obvious way is looking at the wing tips and supercharger inlet on the side of the the engine. Early model 109's had flat wing tips and a small rectangular grille barely noticeable seen on the 109 in the above vid while later models have rounded wing tips and an obvious 90 degree inlet pipe sticking out of the side of the engines supercharger. This change happened roughly when the E becomes an F so all square wing tipped 109's with a small rectangular supercharger inlet is probably an E model or earlier while all 109's with rounded wing tips and a pipe inlet on the supercharger is probably an F or later. I'm sure someone will tell me that's not a reliable way of telling them apart because maybe some shared all these features during their transition, I wouldn't know tbh, but for me it's just a fast way to roughly figure out if it's most likely an early or later 109 model. To figure out what specific model it is after that brief assessment, I'd have to look a little longer at what's featured on it and not featured as the case me be

Wait... On the background there is an airplane with the markings of the Spanish Ejército del Aire ("Army of the Air", our oficial term for Air Force). 1:14 Also Spain built the production license for the Me-109 and build its own local variant called the HA-112, with HA standing for "Hispano Aviación" (Hispano Aviation), which were the ones supplying the engines for the Spanish variant.

Any idea why they went with the squared off canopy later on? the early rounded canopy looks more pilot friendly. Just ease of production?

E model had square wingtips, while later models had rounded wingtips.

A huge difference you seem to have forgotten is the wingtips: the F swapped the E’s square tips with the rounded one. The F and onwards also had a noticeable droop to the top of the engine cover: this had to do with the switch from the DB601 to the DB605

Easier version on how to distinguish E series = Box wings F and G series = non box-y wings

For me its the tailplane... absence of the supporting struts is obvious.

Wing tips change from square to rounded too

What about the rounded wingtips on later models ?

Gotta be German with a name like Bismark aye ;))

The deadliest fighter in history sure is small.

That was fun to watch, thank you...

Nice style of conversation . Like it

Don't forget the Wingtips. The F-Model onwards had rounded Wingtips

ahh what a way to wake up. to watch Bismarck and friends describe this rather important information ha ha ha ha...but i love this stuff

good work guys

Great video, really professional. What is the interest in ww2 history in Germany? It's very popular here in the uk....It's a fascinating period of history ☺☺☺

👍 👍 👍!!!

Don't call it an "E" model, it is called Emil! (and Friedrich and Gustav...)

Thank you! 109 RI? Reconnaisance with 4-blade propeller? There were. Edit - there were 2 struts in rhombic configuration for the rear landing gear... It was replaced with the low-weight alu wheel and quite long skid... No rubber "details".

How did Messerschmitt decide on that canopy design? They did it over a rund. (Round in German)

Honestly it's pretty cute these guys have a house wives club. lol.

Whaaaat? Isn't the essiest way to tell E and early vs F and later, is the rounded wing tip, rounded prop hub and rounded air intake on the later models....? Also minor changes on each variant

I will keep this in mind next time I find one in the wild

If very handsome it's a Kurfürst.

The best place to be during this recording is over on those chairs. I was getting tired watching them run around

You need to redo this topic. You need to get footage of an older model and use it to compare the two. Maybe get one of the last models to use as a comparison.

Turns out, Krauts are not just good at war, but also at teaching the history of it

Omg I NEED a video like this but for all the Panzer 4 variants. PLEASE.

Difference between E and F is easy, what about the visual differences between F and G?

The top of the engine is of course the easiest way to see if it is an E or an F or G.

Hey man I love your videos really help me especially with my endeavor of being a ww2 historian/expert, but I have a question, I know that you will probably not see this comment, but my question is about the Waffen SS I know that they're we're a division of the Schutzstaffel as the Allgemeine SS we're responsible for enforcing Nazi racial laws the SS-Totenkopfverbände were responsible for the concentration camps and Einsatzgruppen among there many sub divisions an example would be the Einsatzkommando we're responsible for killings of citizens but what was the purpose of the Waffen SS? That is my Question

E has angular nose F has round nose with elevator struts Early G round nose, no elevator struts Late G as above with cowling gun blisters

Filmed 5 minutes before closing time?

Ihr 3 seid alle Deutsch ist das nicht komisch,Englisch zu sprechen?

Bro just play war thunder and you will be a expert in Bf 109s Ausführungen even the trop. and normal one.

The Spitfire was a superior design to the Me 109. Later, the Me 109 was outclassed by the P 51 Mustang that had to fly 700 miles to Berlin and was still able to reign supreme over the Nazi capital. Then it had to fight its way back over hostile territory -- while engaging ground targets of opportunity. The Me 109 was a failure. It was checked over Britain and swept from the skies over Germany by superior opponents.