And they said it couldn't be done. Stop shooting the wrong monsters and start being alive some more. Here, let me give you a hand. Keep an eye out for more in this series! Twitch: / sobaddoom
Great video! Interesting to see an actual person talking in a Doom video, given how many Doom RU-vidrs represent themselves using their avatars. Looking forward to the next one!
I can't overstate how impressed I am by this tutorial. Legit, if I wanted to teach someone how to Doom, and I had ONE tutorial to show them, this would be it.
So the rules for combat puzzles are (in no particular order): 1. Decrease the number of hostilities from blind spots. The smaller the amount of attacks that are outside your field of view, the better. 2. Reduce the types of different attacks (I.E. Hitscan, seekers, etc.) to one. They’ll take up less room in your mind. 3. Regain as much space as possible for maneuvering. Don’t get trapped! It’s oversimplifying obviously, but that’s what I mainly got from this video
The first prioritization strategy reminds me of Cost of Delay Divided by Duration. This is a strategy used in product development for deciding what to work on next. The "cost of delay" in this instance would be how much damage an enemy can cause per unit of time and the duration would be how long it takes to kill the enemy. So enemies that don't cause much damage can still have high priority if they're weak enough.
"If at any point, a player asks 'what the f am I supposed to do here' that's a combat puzzle" Ah, so getting lost in a maze for 5 minutes not knowing what any buttons do what is a combat puzzle. Good to know (I jest, I jest, I am a Jester)
Hi Jester, I am an unfunny person. The difference is in the situation the question is asked. Are you asking like it's a Sunday and you're trying to figure out how a brand new toaster works, or are you asking as if you've lost control of your car and are about to veer off a cliff?
Doomer man understands system simplification better than many coders. Have sensible default behavior, but also analyze whole system and look where meaningful reductions in cognitive load can be achieved. Good video.
Outstanding video man! The fact that analysis at this depth on this game can exist almost 30 years after its release is not only a testament to the game's staying power but also your ability as a player, writer, and content creator. Keep it up!
Damn got the trick question wrong! Funny video, not the kind that makes me go LOL but the kind that makes me smile occasionally and appreciate the editing. Also surreal seeing this type of video in the classic doom space...you did a great job at melding this genre of youtube video with classic doom. Not sure how well this topic can be taught since context informs like 99.999% of combat, and experience is obviously the best way to get better, but I appreciate the effort and fun look at some fundamentals that I take for granted and only register both unconsciously and automatically in my mind when playing.
Also while I think it's impossible to create any universal rules about doom combat, and just loose generalizations is even difficult to create, your point about simplification is definitely one of those generalizations, simplifying angles of attack, types of attacks, simplifying situations to make them more manageable, is a good general rule of thumb (exceptions still remain though, sometimes you may want to release more crap into a fight to cause an infight which may temporarily cause more chaos than there was originally, for example)
Haha yeah you're definitely not the "target audience" since you're kind of absurd at this game. :P But I'm glad you could get some enjoyment out of it! Context absolutely is 99% or more of combat. It was difficult to talk about this while trying not to get into *space* or *infighting* and other things, since they all deserve their own video. But hopefully it's a nice toe-dip into breaking down combat. We have to start somewhere! Thanks, bud.
> Funny video, not the kind that makes me go LOL but the kind that makes me smile occasionally So, this is an incidental comedy. Now let's see if SoBad can do comedy puzzles...
Fun and funny, and THANK YOU for the MAP NAMES in the upper right corner! I know it's a lot of work, but it's a great way to expose people to new levels and match it to a name. Much appreciated!
Welcome back mate, you were missed. As an aside, I try to include as many monsters as possible in my large fights, since it does lead to interesting fights and lots of infighting. Sometimes you have to prioritise running around like a clueless moron in order to survive. And I'm reeeeally good at that
yea but just there mere idea that "noob traps" exist at all, as per this video's demonstration, i would be terrified of running cluelessly right into one and trapping myself.
@@dfghj241 that's part of the fun. Frustrating at times, but I can appreciate that the map author has planned for my 'Oh fuck, what do I do now?' style of gameplay.
You goofy lad you, I adore your script and presentation. I learned something and I had a great time throughout. The generously sprinkled impromptu additions and jokes are just the best.
You make a good point that a part of enemy priority is what weapons you have. For example, in a map I'm working on, an early fight pits you against teleporting-in waves of zombiemen, shotgunners, and imps that caps off at the end with a hell knight. . . . But all you have at that point is the regular shotgun. So what sounds on its face like a really easy encounter becomes more interesting because the arsenal is so limited.
Exactly. Pain Elementals become way more dangerous if all you have is rockets (and almost totally harmless if you have the bfg). Great mappers know this well and are super careful about what weapons they give you. It'll be fun to talk about all that stuff soon!
RU-vid is basically telling me I’m a sh** player at DooM by recommending this to me. This was an awesome video. Finally some good content thank you sir!
Hell yeah, I've been looking forward to the next How To Doom, and it didn't disappoint. This is a neat little bit of tech for designing combat setpieces with intention behind them that reaches a little further than what a fairly green mapper (such as myself) would think to include. Immediately through this lens, I look at my favorite wad (Going Down) and see that one of the keystones of its combat is letting you build a threat model in your head and then upending the table with a new one, repeatedly. Blind playthroughs of MAP14: Secrets and Lies showcase that beautifully as a cascading series of oh-shits and adjustments where you have to *very quickly* recalibrate your target priorities and spatial threat models as things go wrong, and that's the secret sauce to its feeling of "chaotic evil", imo.
Cyriak is especially good at giving monsters multiple ways to traverse areas or setting multiple triggers for the same trap, so his maps are harder to predict. It makes things so much more frantic and fun. Huge talent.
An IWAD map I think provides a good example of proper enemy prioritization is the opening of Perfect Hatred, particularly on fast monsters. You're being shot at by a bunch of Imps, and have a half dozen Cacos storming towards you, as well as one hidden near you blocking the radsuit, while you just have a Shotgun. Waking up and killing the Caco blocking the radsuit asap is imperative, but you gotta focus killing the Imps before targeting the other Cacos despite them being the more pressing threat, since you'll kill the Imps a lot faster and reduce the amount of fireballs you have to dodge. When I did my fast monsters Pistol start playthrough, I was struggling a lot here because I was mostly ignoring the Imps while focusing on the Cacos, but it became a lot more manageable when I prioritized taking out the Imps instead.
Bro that intro is off the charts!! Also, I probably wouldn't put a spider mastermind in the highest tier, as you pointed out (I know some people are gonna take that list too seriously). Most (good) mastermind fights are designed around getting out of their LOS and e.g. crushing them later, or around making them infight. You'll rarely have to face a mastermind upfront, and even then you'll rarely be killing her first, without using her for infighting.
You're absolutely right. I actually tortured myself about where to put her before just biting the bullet and putting her up top given the potential danger. :P
You did a great job of explaining how experienced players play the game, and things that are given for them or might not think about since they are on autopilot kicking butt. Great video, looking forward to the next one.
Thanks, bud! I forget if I mentioned this before, but your Rocket Jumping guide impressed the hell out of me. Made me want to make better stuff. You did a phenomenal job. Actually, here's a link to that for anyone leafing through the comments who might be interested: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QfYoztSMdRE.html
This is brilliant! I was instinctively doing the first thing you mentioned in prioritization, but by the time you got to the hell knight versus 30 revs, you got to an area I really need to improve on. Thanks a ton for these tips. Also, HUGE thanks for showing the map names in the corner. Liked, subscribed, commenting for the algorithm. I can't wait to see more from you. I shared this to the r/Doom subreddit, crediting you and hoping to get more eyes on your channel.
This reminds me about my rule when dealing most bosses in any video game where the bosses as minions which is "if I can kill all the extra damage first"
Wonderful job! Initially I thought the editing was too frenetic, but you established a nice style across the video once I was acclimated to it. It still might have been a bit much--when you pop in upside-down at the beginning I said aloud, "What the fuck is he doing?"--but the whole thing is informative and entertaining and establishes you as the only Doom player on earth willing to show his face.
woah this was a great video. super enjoyed the breakdown of the 'anatomy' of fights and situations. Honestly the on-the-fly puzzle solving mindset can be brought over into most competitive FPS shooters as well. Positioning, Target Choice, Rotating. Thanks for uploading. Earned a sub from me, homie.
Had an idea for another how to doom, if you decide to do another. A video on how to maneuver through dense slaughter map fights would be useful. So basically how to get from enemies pouring in from all sides to circle strafing to win. You could discuss how to identify a good gap vs a bad gap, where to use the plasma to cut through vs rocket launcher vs BFG, using pain states to delay specific monsters and create a gap, and how to clump up enemies (I think this has to do with the fact that if they're further away, they move more and attack less, so as you circle around, the nearer monsters move less than those further away who move towards you, which on average keeps everything moving towards the center as you circle strafe).
Defeating the smaller group of monsters that are attacking from a different direction first actually is analogous to tactics in a real-life firefight. When you’re getting flanked by a maneuvering squad, it’s critical to deal with them as quickly as possible so you’re no longer getting shot at from multiple directions.
i guess the way of thinking about it is like, theres the monster priority of how dangerous they are, the spatial priority depending on where they are, and then the infight potential depending on the enemy formation.
This is an absolutely incredible video holy shit, it's easy to follow and makes total sense. On top of that it's hilarious and engaging. That'll sure get me through Sunlust now!
I like your analysis style! Great video And it’s true. When I interviewed Sandy we talked about combat puzzles. They were totally made for OG DOOM, not just Eternal Chaingunners are a good example of a glass cannon I think too. High priority. Context is key, I think cyberdemons can get pretty nasty especially if a player is more novice, and how it’s all placed. Mastermind has a chaingun shotgun! Which is crazy. It’s all situational for sure
1- Finally! I was waiting for another how to Doom since that great video on Revenants. 2- It could be interesting a wad with 32 short fighting puzzles like those proposed by you. Or a level being a set of different but similar puzzles, like the 3 or 4 that you presented. 1 wad with 32 maps, each of one with 3 or 4 rooms of the "same" puzzle. Just to train Doomers, like the map made to practice killing Cyberdemons with 2 BFG shots each.
Great video! Another nuance to fighting Revs is that you can pacify them from attacking you with their missiles by kiting them from a short distance. So, you can kite a bunch of Revenants with little chance of them actually hurting you, while at the same time you can concentrate on killing enemies that CAN attack you like Hell Knights.
What a great video! I love the style and presentation to this, absolutely fantastic to engage this audience in a new and memorable way :) these tips will hopefully make me tackle UV a bit more comfortably now!
Yeah, Interesting thought! Quickly assessing situations, especially bad ones, are a mandatory skill also present in the OG DOOM and DOOM II. It's just that most of us dry-played it so many times that the encounters have their own "chroegraphy" to execute. It's a skill that really can help. For example, if people try to mess you around in the streets, quickly assessing to most threatful dude or ways to escape or have a profitable situation is key. Or in case of a car crash happening or about to happen. Long story shot: The quicker you assess a situation, the better you can deal with it. I think that, generally speaking in most arenas, shooting down the small hitscanners can make a huge difference. And, even if Revenants are fast, it actually plays in the player's favour, especially in the fight you did that has an extra Hell Knight. Because they do not shoot a too close range, it leaves a margin, and also their speed makes it easier for the player to put a Revenant (even if they do that themselves) between the shooting ones and them. Even if they do not infight, tanking the homing missiles can really save time. Regarding the Imp and the Hell Baron case... As a general rule of thumbs (and it also kinda work with the Pain Elemental), when you're fighting tough enemies or even in boss fights, it is preferable to clean the trash mobs first and then focus on the boss. Because too often, the boss deals big slaps while the trash mobs slowly nibble your health. Getting rid of those small fries can make you last longer in Boss fights, especially ones where the lone boss attacks permit you to heal if needed.
I see now that I wasn't supposed to suggest infighting as the real solution, because in basically every example given in the first 7 minutes infighting is an answer that works.
Yeah I wanted to dedicate a whole video to infighting (and start as simple as possible) so I tried to avoid it as much as possible here. It's really hard to talk about any concept/tool in isolation since every fight is kind of a mix of everything. :/ Though I do sincerely doubt infighting is helpful in the trick question example. You're tight on time and that knight can't do much for you. Also if he's not infighting and he does toss something your way, you have no armor so you might take 64 damage. You don't have the budget for that.
i love this video! i'm so impressed with the production values, the face reveal, and how funny it is! this is some doom content that is needed and it delivers!
Excellent video, before I watched this I was thinking about how there's almost nothing on monster prio and general combat strategy on youtube. Looking forward to more great content!
I think back on this video a lot. I think on some level I knew this information, but it's said so well and concisely, it's definitely updated my playbook. So very good.
Your strategy for Strength and Anger's final fight just blew my mind. That was as far as I could make it in Sunlust without saves and I was only on HMP, excited to work smarter instead of just dying with no clue what to do lmao
Don't feel bad though! That fight punishes you *hard* for being in slightly the wrong place. And there's something to be said about the fact that this strategy only "achieves" letting you focus on fighting 30+ revs at once. So you need to have your rev movement internalized pretty well too. In the video, it's trivial *by comparison* but it's still crazy dangerous. 80-damage rev rockets are no joke!
@@sobaddoom That's one of the tougher parts of improving at Doom in my books, at least for lower skill players. Even if they realize all of that about positioning, monster priority and so on? A lower skill player may not have the skill to capitalize or they get unlucky a few times and abandon the better strategy. This video was great to explain a simple but important aspect of Doom combat.
Great video, can't wait to see future videos on this topic, instantly subscribed. I've been playing Doom forever, as have most Doom players by this point, but even then it's still good to hear these things and have them reinforced even if you already do them subconsciously. When you posted your tier list, I personally had Spider Mastermind much lower and Lost Souls and Pain Elemental on top tier with Chaingunner. I'd also put Archvile a tier lower. However, this was because of me subconsciously already factoring in weapon choice (lost souls and pain elementals become significantly bigger issues when you have rockets) and infighting (archvile is very easy to distract, Spider is a great infighter). Cant wait for more!
Absolutely! The tier list gets jumbled up with each different gun and in every new room. (We could easily design a fight where the baron is the #1 guy to shoot). I'll "debunk" it more and more as I make videos that get into *space* and *weapon efficiency* and *infighting* and other fun stuff. But we have to start somewhere! Totally agree with your instincts regarding where you've placed those monsters. It all depends on the context!
You did pretty great in front of the camera, mate! You kept the informative stuff while still being funny and now also visually more interesting, so great job!
I definitely have to practice some more! Lost tons of takes to looking away from the camera before I finished my whole sentence. But anything and everything with time, right?
A great way of putting what we do into words. Also really like the inclusion of the map titles, so people can have a go at the background chaos themselves.
excellent advice. ur previous video on how to deal with revs genuinely made me better at playing doom and i've honestly been kind of disappointed u hadn't made another for some time because i was craving more instruction like that. i've been playing for a very long time but haven't until recently really been concerned with being good at the game, particularly, and the rev video came along at the perfect time to help me toward that goal this video seems to cover something a bit more fundamental than the rev video, and i think that's a great place to start for a series like this. i think if u play doom long enough this kind of thing becomes second nature, but having it spoken abt explicitly i'm sure will help a lot of ppl not get locked into having to dodge multiple projectile types and avoid chip damage when it isn't necessary, which ofc, is absolutely necessary to playing anything challenging i really really enjoyed the movement guide on revenants and've been wishing there was someone out there that spoke abt movement in doom, as i feel that's kind of the difference between someone who can play the iwads well and someone who can tackle any challenging map relatively blind w/o too much frustration. i hope u decide to do more guides like that when u feel its appropriate. thank u for doing the community this service!
My tier list is a little different from this video, and it's because of the second part of this video. It's not "who can hit me the hardest", I just shouldn't get hit lol. The question that defines the list is "who makes dodging the most complicated or impossible?" That means a nerf to arachnotrons and imps, and a buff to Revenants, pain elementals and Mancubi, in a vacuum. This allows me to predict more fights, as it's easier to dodge a stream of projectiles, even if they are numerous. This is still just a generic tier list, and staged encounters are still context sensitive, but it gives a better basis for my priority checking. For example, I think I would have solved the trick question simply because of the question I have when making the tier list - "Who makes dodging the most complicated?"
I totally agree. I actually had a whole section of the video focusing on "doing what's best for you". Some people will just never get hit by the mancubus ever because they're gods. So their personal tier list would feature him much lower. But I cut it out because the video was already getting long and the whole thing is so context sensitive anyway. It's just meant to be an absolute first step to considering if there's a better monster to be shooting right now.
I started my first playthrough of Ultimate Doom 4 days ago, I ended the game 3 hours ago on ultra violence and I wish I had the brains to make those simplifications before, it would've made some headaches WAY easier, specially E4M8, that level is absolute hell!. Hopefully I can apply the stuff you said in this video in Doom 2, I can't wait! Pretty amazed that people STILL make content about this game, that's insane.
Welcome to Doom! There's so much cool custom stuff out there waiting for you after you've smashed Doom 2. I swear, every new year becomes the best year to get into the game. Definitely check out the Cacowards when you're feeling more adventurous!
@@sobaddoom That's cool! Already taking an eye on plutonia aswell, although from what i've seen it's WAY harder than Doom 2, but yeah one step at a time
I want to thank you for including the wad names that you're showing footage from. I watch a lot of great videos with bits and pieces of footage like this and sometimes wonder what the wads are because it looks interesting and I'd like to check it out, and you're accreditation of the wads makes it much easier to track them down :)
