I always thought so, therefor 1.09 x inner leg cm instead , then measuring from pedal spindle. But even then, having the saddle a bit higher works better for me .
There's been lots of different methods floating about for years,a common few were when your sat on the bike with your heel over the pedal axel your leg should be straight so that when sat on it with the ball of your foot over the axel it should be slightly bent, there are others but as commented they're designed to get you in the ball park and you tweak from there 😊
Method 2 0.883 was an absolute revelation for me… my saddle has come down 4 cms… I know I’m older now and have probably shrunk a bit but thinking back I can’t recall where my old position came from probably heel on pedal. Phil is so right about the window of flexibility in riders. My new position is far better I have reduced saddle pain, have better cadence and less numbness in the hands. Thanks for posting up the video
wrist pain ...only in my right wrist....now hold on I mean when cycling not...err.. anyway...I am on a "treking" mountain bike...actually just changed from a Giant Rincon after 4 years to a Trinx X7 Quest 29"... still same issue on longer than 1 hour rides??? ...thanks for this seat advice
Great video!! Would love a video showing saddle fore aft especially how much fore and high up a cyclist fit should be and why it helps to engage glutes more?
Phil's a great guy, sparing his time to deliver free tips & advice. Newcomers & those contemplating "jumping" on 2 wheels may also well appreciate a update brief on saddle types. Pro's & con's, if any, of different types, widths, groove or no groove etc. Newbies in the bike store facing a myriad of choice 🤔
Half way in the video now, you speak about the Lemond method (factor 0.883) and measuring from the saddle _to the centre of the bracket._ That ignores the crank length, which is a mayor factor, isn't it?
The best advise I got in that regard: Go all the way back and test ride it. Almost guaranteed to feel awkward. Then keep moving it forward in 5mm increments and test ride. Repeat until you feel a light weight on your hands. Fine tune to have quads and hammies fatigue at roughly the same time, hence load distribution is equal.
Great timing. New saddle came in to work office this morning(SMP Well). Closed the door and started fiddling away with old saddle and new to mark as close as I can. Wish I could record trying to hold myself steady on desk saying "yup that feels good" 😂. Great point about eveyone having a "window"; I found it with my old saddle through trial & error. I could ride for long miles and feel great. Here's hoping the SMP is in same range to start. I've always wanted a fitting but money is an issue, being curious isn't so it goes a long way for one to "learn" their bike components and not be afraid to tinker around.
Had 3 fits in the past and frankly both sucked other than they both agreed on saddle height-crank length - the rest I threw out and did it myself including the saddle fore/aft and was a early adopter of short nose saddles before they became a thing
My last saddle height fit injured me actually, he had me excessively high which caused medial tendon pain and inflammation. I lowered it and the pain and inflammation subsided.
Very late reply but standing next to the bike for saddle height doesn't make sense to me because it depends on your wheels. For an extreme example if you put 10" wheels on your bike for some reason the saddle wouldn't be anywhere remotely close to your hip. Saddle height isn't based off the ground to the saddle. It's based off the crank to the saddle.
The Lemond method worked terribly for me, it got me to put the saddle way too high by around 2cm. Before I lowered it I had to compensate the length pretty badly with my hips.
There is no such thing as perfect saddle height. In fact, Phil Burt says this in his book on bike fitting. The great Eddy Merckx didn't believe in it either, he would change his saddle height during races.
I’ve a question. I’m 46 or 47 in Jan. stupid Q. Does saddle height drop at all. Mine is Alu welded in no grease winter bike. I’m 73.5 to 74.5. This is stuck at 73.5. Same on summer bike feels great. Winter one feels low
I'm "blessed" with short arms, short legs and long torso... like the tip of my fingers is at groin height when on average it's peoples' palm or wrist that at the level. Was great when I was still playing rugby, low center of gravity and all that. Everything else is a pain, like getting fitted for suits, I find I have to get everything adjusted to the point of getting it tailored is easier.
I just used to guess my saddle height but it was always so I could only touch the floor with my toe on one foot. I heard about the 109% method which is where you multiply your inseam by 1.09. This is measured from the top of the saddle to the top of the pedal so it takes into account the length of the pedal arm. My saddle was very close to that result already so I trust that method. So when I get a new bike I just set it to that number and it saves a lot of hassle getting the seat right.
Yeah it’s stupid…I’ve been racing for 20+ years. Crank length absolutely does impact not just height but forward or back saddle position as well (and even cleat position) so just using old school mid of BB isn’t very smart. It matters less for people who cruise around doing 1-2wkg Audax all the time but for maximal racing it 100% matters.
@@KatieKookaburra Hello Katie!…presumably and debatably this measurement is about some hypothetical optimal leg extension or angle between the tibia and femur which would have to be based on where the pedal spindle is as affected by crank length and as the other poster pointed out even where the cleat is fore and aft on the shoe if you include the effects of ankle articulation and the length of the foot nevermind different musculature. It’s kind of a geometrical puzzle that ignores strength/torque imo. The only explanation I can think of for using the bb as the reference point would be an assumption that the crank length selected for a particular frame has been optimized by whoever selected the crank for a particular size and geometry frame…which would require careful matching to the specific rider…this is not a paid commercial for bike fits before purchasing but I hope Phil appreciates it! I guess this why the height is a box rather than one absolute position. Do you think cycling appeals to obsessives?
Hi there I’m with Phil now and he said: “BB is the one fixed point on the bike so we measure from there to the saddle. But of course crank length will affect how far your knee extends.”
I ran across the seat height to hip bone theory on a PT site. My seat was at a comfortable height and I checked this method by standing next to my bike. I was amazed how it seemed to be spot on! Katie could you possibly ask Phil to explain the cleat position to saddle height ratio the next time you do a video with him. Great stuff you provide on your channel! Much gratitude.
I measure the from tip of the saddle nose to the center of the stem and that gets me within a couple of mm for my saddle position fore\aft. then I just has to futz with it until I feel comfortable. Center of the crank bolt to the top of the seat rail along the seat tube for height. Has not failed me in years.
Again another easy to grasp master class from Phil...cycling can be intimidating to those of us who are afraid of touching anything on the bike lest we screw it up. Thanks, Katie and Phil!
Phil explains the aspects of bike fitting so well, and it really helps me to understand not only how to achieve the correct bike setup but why it is important, and the implications of a poor fit. Thanks for asking the right questions Katie and for your fantastic advice Phil.
