How to Find the Property Lines of Any Home (Version 4) 

Yes, good points. A metal detector can be helpful. In Version 2 of this series I was able to demonstrate some good practices for that.

At some point, at least for residential properties, there would have been survey pegs that are likely still buried just below the surface. The APPROXIMATE locations you identify in your videos are where a metal detector should then be used to locate the original nailed or metal survey pegs. The greatest errors in the app based locating approach you describe are the hardware limitations of the phone or tablet GPS system, which are more significant for small residential properties than the 2D/3D geometry mismatch.

Yes, thank you. This video needed effort.

Thanks for the not DO. Also on my Channel are 15 Use Cases that discuss when important Survey's are recommended and sometimes when they are not. My neighbor wanted to build a swing set near his back property line, and he felt like getting a $1,200 survey for that use case was not needed.

For my subscribers reading comments........This guy wants you to spend $1,200 or $2,000 to get your property Surveyed before even trying other solutions that can range from $5 to $8.

@@MarkTheRealtor you are going to cost people a lot of money surveys get you within .5 inches. If you rely on 3 FEET accuracy, you could be in a lot of expensive trouble.

@@edwardfisher2787 Edward, I have coached 1,000's of home owners to find their properties either EXACTLY, or within inches of exact. Again this year I will order, pay for, and review around 60 Survey's. And every year 6 of them are wrong. I mean dead wrong. Any suggestion that Surveys are Perfect and GPS is always wrong has been shown to be a wrong assumption.

@@edwardfisher2787 If you get within 3 ft, you can find a buried steel pipe stake which is usually quite sufficient.

Good work Rick. I like it.

Hi Joe. Over 100 experts have told me the 15' cushion and now measuring over 200 properties, I have not found that to be true. At least in my part of Missouri, when I slow down, let the devices acclimate with 15 satellites connected, they are almost always within 3' of actual survey stakes.

You noticed. Impressive. Thank you. Yes, RPN.

I remember when HP-35 was new. 1973, I think.

@@jimbell4137 Very observant Jim. 1985 HP-41CX with programmable cartridges. RPN with no equals sign. It still works.

@@MarkTheRealtor My father bought my sister and I TI SR-50 calculators when they came out, in 1973. $170. Much cheaper than the HP-35.

@@jimbell4137 Hi Jim. Thanks for the memories. Too fun. I miss those days.

Well received. Thank you for your thoughts.

Thanks for the note. The buzzer is typically bad news.

For viewers reading comments, the solution you will see over and over again is to pay $1,300 or $2,500 for a Survey. Legally Survey's are supposed to be the most accurate, but I have had Survey's done where there was over 100' of inaccuracy. With the video's on my channel you have more tools to use now.

@@MarkTheRealtor tell them about dual-frequency GPS in smartphone, and sbas support.

So interesting. It does sound like a complicated puzzle.

Hi Dan. Sure, no problem. I found mine on Amazon and have used it so many times. Search "Huge Inflatable Globe, 1 Meter in Diameter, Earthball". The volume is so vast, consider going to a gas station and using there tire inflation pump.

@@MarkTheRealtor much appreciated!

Thanks Folee. Was hoping that did not disappoint anyone. It certainly is new news.

This does sound like a Licensed Surveyor needs to come in and figure it out. They have the equipment and expertise to be precise. Sorry this is happening to you.

Hi John. It's a pedestal. And it was about 40" off the ground. During the readings there were 12 or more satellites tracking the location at all times. The parallax to which you are referring over that 40" of height may have caused the measurement to be off 0.00001 meters which is roughly the width of a human hair. I'm not putting the Garmin or my Phone on the ground for that type of tolerance.

Yes, thank you for the note. Yes it is widely understood that Survey's are more accurate. AND, we all know many will not pay the $600 or $1,200 to survey even a small parcel.

See ZED-F9P. Accurate to 10 millimeters. $600 with tripod, smartphone extra.

Hi Russ. Thanks for the note. Does your County have the parcels mapped accurately? IF so perhaps you could get the Lat/Long Coordinates off your County site? And then in hilly areas I would recommend a Garmin type of handheld that can triangulate off of 10+ satellites at once.

@@racker7855 Racker, he is asking about the tracking feature in OnX. Not about the difference between Survey's and the County GIS.

Hire a licensed professional.

@@robmcmillan3766 I don’t have that kind of money. 😏 I have 3 of the 5 pins located. Just need to clear brush.

I was able to find some pre-owned ones on Amazon that were half priced. They are so accurate that they have become my favorite handheld.

Thank you for sharing Jim.

@cbdyna---- So how do the satellites orbit them? And the Moon, not to mention the international space station. The pix from there sure look like the Earth is a sphere.

@@terry2346 Satellites do not orbit an extended horizontal plane of varying heights along its length. It is why theres many solar powered drones that operate at 85,000 feet above the ground. Explain to me why I have no cellular signal on top of a mountain. Take all the time you need.

​@cbdyna because you are not within the functional footprint of the correct signal Tx/Rx. Remove your tinfoil/aluminum foil hat and do some research. All the answers are at your finger tip, just be prepared to research the research!

@@ronbrown1901 Hahaha. Functional footprint? Hahaha. You are trying to talk down someone who was directly involved with 17 Gig micro and other non-microwave frequencies. Put it to you this way sunshine, no antenna goes anywhere but to a pole. It is all land based Lorain. New digital is LoRaWan.

Thanks for weighing in Frank. Yes, I too have heard that intentional bias is added. In measuring dozens of properties I own or have under contract the accuracy is rarely outside of 5' and usually within 3'. Many of my parcels have had a survey prior, but the pins have been covered over the years.

Until 2000 something called S/A, or selective availability was used to deaccurize GPS but that was ended. For a long while smartphones used GPS that was commonly reference to be 10 meters accurate, though it was probably more like 5 meters. Recently smartphones have been built that have something called dual frequency GPS and sbas corrections. If your phone has both, the accuracy approaches 1 meter. If you're willing to spend about $600, you can get a GPS receiver with an accuracy of about 10 millimeters, a technique called RTK. But you will have a lot of learning to do. Even then, the problem is that most survey drawings don't even reference latitude and longitude: they reference distances to stakes in the neighborhood.

Good point Lee. Yes I was surprised about how much magnetic north and fluctuate from true north. And it moves every day. Ahhhhhh.

Great points. I order and pay for 60 Survey's a year and 10% of them are wrong. Often they are dead wrong. And the surveyors do enjoy saying the Title is dysfunctional. Sometimes, not always, they're right.

Hi Main. Okay, that is brutal. It sounds like an issue with your County GIS Dept having that plat shifted over 50'?

That’s because GIS uses tax maps. Tax maps only show the property lines approximately. When you open up your local GIS it probably has a disclaimer explaining that GIS is not exact.

@@tybrady4598 the lines are so fast off they could not even be considered "approximate".

Hope you like it!

With the current technology available to the public, I think this is the best we can do. Surveyor's have more expensive equipment and can get very accurate.

Thanks YTI for watching. Hopefully there were a few lessons learned in here.

Exactly go back to handwritten field Notes taken using magnetic comp. 100 yrs that were later used to set hwy 80 and mining claims ....

Wow, Andrew. I have never seen one in another language. Very interesting.

Very interesting Richard. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you. This video was longer than I expected. I should have simplified it.

Hi Sharon. I just spent a month making a new video about this very topic. Please check back tomorrow as it gets released. There will be a link in the comments you can use.

@@MarkTheRealtor thank you!

On top of the Google Earth standard accuracy, I overlay Parcel 2.0. It was easy to install.

A second of latitude is about 102 ft. A second of longitude at 45° latitude is about 78 ft. GPS canb do far better than these values. If a smartphone has dual frequency GPS capability it might have an accuracy of 2 meters. If it also has sbas capability, it might have an accuracy of 1 meter. You should look at the settings for Google Earth: I believe it will go to a resolution of 1 meter.

@@jimbell4137 Agreed Jim. I actually have a video where the 102' and my calculations were 80' across for the width. The SmartPhone is showing to be somewhat accurate, but my multi-channel Garmin is even more accurate.

The difference between Survey accuracy and GPS phone accuracy is clearly shown on most of my video's. On video and on spreadsheets. When you say it isn't accurate enough. May I ask, for who?

And yet 1,000's have used these methods to find their exact property corners. The most common method is to use the Apps to approximate the points. And then with a metal detector, find the exact OIP's in the field. Other Video's on my Channel show how to do this. @MarkTheRealtor

@@MarkTheRealtor Yep, all's well and good until one party disagrees or, as happens all the time, there is more than one iron at the corner, or no iron at all. Next thing you know, best friends are fighting and lawyers are billing hours. Nobody wins except the lawyers. There is a reason why surveyors and realtors are considered professionals; they know their business. A professional also knows when he's getting outside of his business.

@@rickhofsess84 There is a video on my channel for 15 USE Cases. For some, a Survey is for sure the best. And for others, a Survey is overkill and just not needed. I love surveys but in our area spending $1,200 and waiting 3 weeks for results is not something the public can accept in most situations.

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry I do not know how to solve this one.

The municipal authorities do own the planting strip and the sidewalk however it is the homeowner's responsibility to repair and upkeep these same areas. It was explained to me that this is a "citizen contract" we have with the government.

@@TheDroppedAnchor Thank you for sharing this knowledge. Well received.

Hello Wizzardo. Good question. Each App will cast its own net. For LandGlide is has over 3,000 Counties in the USA and Canada. And I heard about some in New Zealand and Australia.

Good points. Well received. The reason I assemble these video's is because consumers deserve to know where their approximate property lines are. My neighbor wanted to know where their back property line was because he was building a swingset for his kids. He did not want to spend $600 and wait 3 weeks for a Survey. For sure, Survey's are more accurate. But there are many reasons why approximations can work.

Too funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Thanks Blains for watching and commenting.

Good thoughts pinschrunner. Well received.

@@MarkTheRealtor Good thought? Just place pins where you “think” they should be.

@@jdmather5755 I have never placed a pin in my life. And, on several of my video's I hire Surveyors to place the pins and I publish the results.

For the viewers reading comments, this guy and his comment is dangerous to your bank account. As property owners YOU have the right to know where your approximate and sometimes exact property lines are located. My neighbor is building a swing set for his kids near the back property line and the Apps were perfect for him. But people like this want home owners to spend $1,200-$3,000 every time they have even a curiosity about the land they own. On my channel I just released a video about when to use a Site Plan, a GIS Map, or a Survey. Please look for it as it explains more. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OdM0Bhy7LFY.html

Good point. Flat, it is.

Thanks for the note William. I did find some affordable Garmin's online that are pre-owned.

@@MarkTheRealtor My garmin works fine. It's my State Plane map that list coordinates in Feet that I can't figure how to convert to Lat/lon. Easting & Northing conversion didn't work either.

@@williamokrasinski9840 Good question William. I'm not sure on that one. There are some Garmin tutorials on RU-vid that perhaps could help?

Yes, good point TT.

Hi Steven. Thanks for the note. You have me thinking. I have not been able to find Parcel Data on Google Maps. Have you? Now, on Google Earth with the Parlay 2.0 overlay, it has been useful. Coach me back please.

@@MarkTheRealtor Google earth shows parcels lot and you can walk around your property and somewhat find your pegs. but somehow their incorrect. Like my neighbors, the lot line is literally going over his house. It seems like that data is out of alignment. then they sell these maps with the incorrect data to other apps and services.

@@stevenlouis1024 Thank you Steven for sharing.

Nearly word for word from the disclaimers I make in the video's. Not exact, but often very close. And in most of my video's I hire a Survey team to check the Accuracy of the Apps.

@@MarkTheRealtor I expected that you would make that disclaimer, I had to run out of the office and could not finish watching it. - I happened upon it because of frustrations I have with surveys that I work with that never seem to agree with each other on their bearings, they also never agree with Google Earth, or my own compass bearings. When I am trying to find a pin that is 1500 yards away in a flat field just 1 degree of declination is troublesome, putting it mildly. I have a brand new survey that was just supplied to me, 60 acre parcel, and every single bearing on the survey is almost exactly 2 degrees off from what Google Earth claims as being True North. Thanks for the video by the way, from what I saw it looked very well done.

@@katy-fulshearrealestate7675 Great points Katy! Thanks for the positive energy. You sound like the type of person who knows this already....but here goes. Are you aware that True North and Magnetic North are different? The actual magnetic north wobbles every year and does not go through the North Pole. Weird right?

@@MarkTheRealtor Yeah, I am aware of this. I check and verify the latest declination on the day of my visits at the lat/long I am visiting. - The real question I have is for the survey crews that supply the surveys I work with. It's not the geo location points, but it's the bearings they show on the survey. - I have checked Google Earth (GE) bearings against a number of known geo-locations in the US - such as the Four Corners Monument, and GE is always within a 1/4 degree of the geo-locations marked bearings. So I have to assume that I can trust GE to be at least within 1/3 of a degree of accuracy, yet when I lay bearings on a brand new large-scale survey, the surveyor's shown bearings are off, and usually consistently within the survey I am looking at. Such as the one I mention above. In that survey, every single shown property line's bearing is off by almost exactly 2 degrees, 2 degrees higher than the bearings from GE. And it's not like the surveyor is showing Magnetic North, if so in this particular geo-location he would be under, not over. Are there any surveyors reading this that can answer that question? Do you check your equipment and make sure it's adjusted for true north? Or is this something that really doesn't concern you that much? In the end, if the readings are all consistent and the markers are all identified it really doesn't change much as far as the boundary lines are concerned. So maybe they aren't too worried about it? >>>> EDIT: So I got my question answered, at least mostly answered. I met the survey crew at the property this morning in order for me to see exactly where the marking pins were located. The bearings that are shown on the survey and the metes and bounds, they did not do. They don't take bearings themselves unless it's a new survey for a new parcel to be filed. In this case, they pulled all of the bearings off of the existing metes and bounds filed at the county and just wrote them into the new one. This property was originally surveyed about 60 years ago, so it's pretty difficult to know how good the equipment that was used was at the time.

Good point Guy. Yes, we are all sure the The Earth is really Flat.

I can agree with you on one point. The accuracy comes from both GPS -and- the GIS County data. GIS does not stand for Get It Surveyed. Did you even watch the video? I did get it Surveyed and the results are shown and discussed. If you want to be 'snarky' please pay attention before you start typing.

@MarkTheRealtor I did watch it but do you know how many people are going to think they can survey their property using an app after watching? I also know that isn't what GIS stand for that's a surveying joke because so many GIS maps are not close to accurate. My friend uses onX and while we were hunting. He said this says it's your neighbors property can I park here. I said yeah that's my property, not his. It's closer in subdivisions like you sho, but rural areas are atrocious.

Made me smile. Too funny.

@@MarkTheRealtor how so

For people reading these comments, the accuracy during my videos is Measured right on the Video.. Sure it's easy to say "Hire a Surveyor" but how many people are going to pay the $1,200-$2,500 for a survey. There are at least 20 reasons why homeowners want an approximation of their property lines with out paying all that money.

Everyone needs a "real surveyor". Until they find out it's $1,200 and takes 3 weeks. Then people get to decide if they want to be approximate with Apps or exact with a Surveyor.

@@MarkTheRealtor why would you need “approximate” property lines? You need exact lines so you know where to put the fence and order to build

@@corevette My neighbor was building a playfort for his kids and wanted to know where his back property line was so he stayed on his land. It was perfect for that application. On my Channel there is a video of 15 use cases. For some, Survey's are the best way to go. But not always please.

No where accurate enough. If it helps you find a surveyor’s pin that’s great but just using the apps and gps without finding a corner pin is worthless. Hire a surveyor if you really need to know where your property lines are.

@@polyuniverse1908 So my neighbors wanted to know where his back property line was so he could build a playfort. The Apps helped him find the back property line within a few feet. It helped, and he didnt' spend $1,200 and wait 3 weeks for a Survey. That's just one example of 15 that I have.

Your Country does not have GoogleEarth and GPS (or other satellites)? I tested it the date With and Without WIFI and the accuracy was better with Wifi. My experience and your comment do not align. The accuracy was tested right there next to the Registered Survey. It seems you did not watch the entire video as it was right there in front of your eyes. Correct, Graticule boxes change based on the Lat/Long. No Duh! "Resolution Boxes" ? Really?

@@MarkTheRealtor Maybe instead of WIFI you meant WAAS?

I think the message is that GPS can provide an approximation, but can't be relied on for down to the foot, much less fraction of an inch accuracy. My concern is that even when professional surveyors are used, you may only obtain accuracy to within a foot, maybe inches, but even then, a margin of error exists. The point is that if your intent is to construct a property line barrier like a fence, wall, or hedge, some give and take with your neighbor may be in order, esp where uneven terrain or ground movement exists. IMO. G'luck.

Okll​@@c-qc-q2021

@@c-qc-q2021 Surveyors can get things down to about about half an inch or even tighter if need be.

He specifically says this is why you need a professional surveyor at 12:15. Maybe listen to the video before ripping the guy a new one.

Definitely need a surveyor, the error is only less than half inch.

And yet 1,000's have watched this video over and over because it has helped them. With over 2,000,000 views this channel is helping property owners say Yes, just yes.

Thanks David for the laugh.

Hey Tommy. Great comment and thanks for watching those and understanding where I'm coming from. Many will watch 90-seconds of those 4 video's and then lash out with their anger. So, I appreciate your style.