How to fix your diagonal movement! 

I was thinkin the same thing lol

Goldeneye players too

we need a list of 3d games, that fail to normalize some movement vectors.

Speedrunners when not every single little exploit is kept in for them and not every little aspect of a game is designed around them

​​@@danolantern6030lol games usually arent designed around speedruns but devs may choose to leave in some bugs runners use. Like ocarina of time 3d they left in super slides but fixed but the buggy crouch poke. now modern zelda games they fix all the fun bugs before any of the game breaking stuff lol

let's say you're going right, whether you go up or down as you go right, in this scenario you'd still only move right at the same speed.

Still doesn't make send

​@@motc8238But if you want to just say go forward if you keep holding right you would end up completely wrong

​@@motc8238 actually, you'd be going a lot slower becaused the horizontal speed is less than the total speed, instead of being equal like if you went straight

running in a zigzag wouldn't increase you're vertical velocity.

Doesn't count for the fact that you run SIGNIFICANTLY faster by running diagonal along a wall in Doom/Doom 2. That's just a straight up bug.

That's not true. The actual reason for that is that all directions of movement max out at Speed 40. However, a glitch that allows you to move and strafe in the same direction simultaneously can give you a speed of value of SR50 or SL50 (Strafe Right 50 or Strafe Left 50) It's only faster than running on long stretches where you can do it for long enough. That's why they'll usually just run forward or to the direction of the next objective if they're in a small room.

And Goldeneye

​@@platinumfactoryes, a good example of the movement shown in this video would be diablo 1.

@@platinumfactoryea you can run along a wall and run faster…

Pythagorian theorem is one of my most used formulas. Trigonometry is so useful.

Pythagoras is the most used theorem outside of school and direct mathematics istg

When you throw a football or any ball. Although you may not realize it, you are calculating the force needed to throw the objects in an arc which is the basis of the theorem

I mean I get mad in general when people ask/say stuff like this regardless of any specific math-topic. Yeah you MAY NOT need it, but you probably don't know your future profession when you are still in school, so it's better to learn it so you are not an idiot when you want to have an engineering or science degree. And even here in videogame development. Computer Science is literally a branch of math and we are surrounded by computers these days

He explained it explicitly trying to fit it to use that math technique. Still useless lol.

Remember, you don’t need to outrun the monster. Just outrun your friends!

lmao🤣🤣

😂😂

@@meteylmaz4366 note to self, run at an angle which you can run directly to your friend to clothesline them, whilst moving diagonally.

The World is not Enough on N64 in a nutshell

This is such an important thing. So many devs lost this mindset.

I tried normalizing movement for something. It really didn't feel right. Even if you're going the same speed, it feels slower

​@@mchlkpngBecause you basically are. You're not going forwards as fast, nor are you moving to the side as fast.

@@anonymousapproximation8549 true

Nah its not better lol

Same!

I just clicky cause I wanty. Sides, could use polar coordinates instead of this Kardashian coordinates and save some computing power 🤣

​@@hikari1690That would work, but wouldn't save any computing power.

Big brain

​@@hikari1690Cartesian*. Kardashian coordinates would be used to measure amount of plastic in a bimbo

One reason it's so common is because, like, just normalizing diagonal movement in a game like this would knock the pixel art character out of alignment with the pixel grid. Minecraft has no excuse tho lol

i dont think godbridging exists in topdown pixel games though

​​@@varglbargl Yeah, if you have a game where the character moves at least a pixel at a time, then you would need around 10 pixels for it to move 7 diagonally (for it to be close to the ratio). You could of course like make it walk half the speed, so you can have a character that moves two pixels in one direction move one in both (the diagonal can be divided in two axis movements), but then diagonal movement becomes so slow it rarely would make sense to use it (it does make some sense though because it would take the same time to walk diagonally and to walk only in the 2 directions that correspond to it)

​@@raven-aanother solution: make the character's minimal speed X pixels/frame and round normalized diagonal velocity to nearest integer.

it's extra math, normalizing the vector isn't as simple as dividing by a specific factor if the game allows multiple movement speeds

It"s also literally one of the most commonly used formulas in real life to measure distances in all kinds of situations.

​@@19Szabolcs91Measuring stuff uses trig more than pythagoras. It comes in handy for setting up perpendiculars though.

“You won’t, but the smarter kids will.”

​@@19Szabolcs91yea like i use it every day, i work at a photo shop and im definitely not gonna bust out a measure for a frame i know the sides of

My dad in school: "Fuck this algebra and geometry shit I'll never use it" My dad at work: is a carpenter

In many game engines, especially those that can be used for 3D games, you can actually move weird fractions of a pixel because they represent all positions in floating point. But if I'm trying to make a game look retro, I might use integers, either whole pixels or half or quarter pixels (the latter are useful if I want some things to move faster than others). And probably keep diagonal movement faster than rooklike movement because if players notice it and take advantage of it, well, that feels better than artificially slowing them down. (Not necessarily making diagonal movement 1.41 times faster, but perhaps 1.5 since that's easier to do fixed-point maths with.)

I think usually characters move more than one pixel per frame.

@@michawhite7613 I'm talking about numbers in-between whole numbers. For example, if your horizontal and vertical speed is 6 pixels, then by calculation your diagonal speed is about 8.5 pixels. The game engine does not let you move sub pixel, so you're relocated at the coordinates which may cause your character to move in a jittery way.

@@Pie_Mastah My intuition is that the difference between 8 pixels and 9 pixels isn't noticeable, but I could be wrong.

@@michawhite7613 only noticeable when in a pixel art style, when 8-9 pixels is like half the size of the player

It's incredible that they didn't fix this though. N64 was already an advanced time compared to the NES / snes era, and this diagonal problem is a well known one

Looking down to run the game at a constant 60fps is another speedrun strat for that game.

Pretty surprising to see this issue pop up even in more recent games. There is this indie Super Monkey Ball tribute game called Paperball which does the exact same thing, no vector normalization, so diagonal movements are simply faster. I know it's an indie game, but otherwise pretty well made, and it's so recent...

A fun side effect of having all of those different and weird control schemes is that some of them had a genuine advantage over the others, because of funky programming. :P

​@@vulkanosaureMy guess is it's a video game where the player is bounded to the square of the map Like, you can't just move quite a bit, you have to go from a square to another It's not possible to fix diagonal walk in those game, it would make the player stand between the squares, which would break the game

Go for engineering studies and oh boy you're going to need them a lot :D

​@Seppo could you imagine if, when your math teacher was asked "when will I use this", their response was "well do you like video-games"? I would've retained wayyy more math.

I find it a little bit astonishing how you can be into game development and not apreciate the insane amounts of math needed. OpenGL Rendering requires a ton of Matrices and Projection Math, a maybe quaternions. Physics Simulations require calculus and, well, physics. Everything is expresed with vectors. Meaning that you need to be VERY confortable with normalization, vector arithmetics, and maybe the dot and cross product. Strategy games requiere some knowledge of Dynamic Systems. RPGs and competitivr shooters require knowledge of calculus for balancing the attribute of enemies, weapons and characters by finding minima and maxima of functions. And i could go on for s long while I hope i don't discourage you from GameDev tho. Quite the opposite, i ecourage you dig deeper into the math. You might find it quite enjoyable when you explore the possibilities

For everyday life? Probably not, but math is the heart engineering, science and coding imo

I must say out of everything, Pythagorean theorem is the most used formula ever

👍

@@raya-fantasiaWhy’d you reply to your one comment?

Someone else commented before, but I think they deleted it

@@raya-fantasia Lol, people deleting their comment just to make you look a bit crazy. It's sort of like when a tonne of people upvote a comment... then the person changes the comment to something absurd, and you're like "why are so many people upvoting such a stupid comment?"

yes

wait until you learn some trigonometry

Its kinda more linear geometrics then algebra bc the formula is about a triangle and its sides but nevermind

dude you started learning algebra at 1st grade. trying to find out the answer to 1+1=x is algebra. I'm pretty sure you've used it in a lot of ways in your life now.

Welcome to engineering - where we actually use the maths we were taught in school

I laugh when I think back to all the kids who thought that math was useless because they just wanted to become programmers

especially when you take linear algebra and it’s basically fundamental to computing graphics and games

divide the speed by sqrt2 and put it in both x and y of movement vector

Yeah!!! Xenoblade OST fans! Escoecially the night time theme!!!

Yess! Colony 9 night music is one of my favorite video game music pieces of all time.

I love this song!!

@@gavinli1368I recognized it right away bc it’s one of like 5 songs from the game I use to fall asleep lmao

I immediately knew it was a xenoblade song I just didn’t know which one, thank you

Ik I’m late at answering but, I did too 😅

Math is very dry stuff most of the time, and very exousting to take attention to. ( english is not my primar language, sorry for errors)

nah its not ur fault, they make it as boring as one could imagine

im happy that now (im at the very end of gen z) at least in australia them highschool teachers make maths interesting if not sufferable

@@zaplershorts7783 were u still sleeping

Thanks. It's a shame the uploader didn't give the actual answer and just "blah blah got it? ok bye" to us.

where shoul i copy it? in fuction load or update

@@alessioturco953 update probably

i would recommend learning how normalization works with math.

@@pyrytheburger3869 the reason for that was probably that he barely fit in one minute lenght of the video (which is a short). I might be wrong, but I guess that if he added explanation it would cross the "limit". Neverthless, quite bad that he didn't pin the answer (the one above) or write his own. Btw, I know this was 9 months ago xD

Which engine are you using?

easiest solution and it works perfectly, any other amount of directions and there is no need to divide the speed (didn't see that the comment is 8 months old)

Yeah. That sounds like the way to do it. Just make it like this then add 10% and it might feel better.

Yeah, I came back to this video after playing Stardew Valley for the first time, vertical movement is painful in that game

lol, this so much like that without coyote time players feel betrayed and claim your controls are unresponsive..

In 3D games, up velocity is usually done separately, bc of gravity, and u can’t add continuous velocity when jumping, so the jump strength is balanced around the jump height. Ofc space games are different tho

Coming from an avid OW2 nerd, you just helped me understand faster flying character's movement tech. Specifially, Echo's mainmovement ability lets her fly vertically while holding the a diagonal movement combination. This is just better to do as Echo when flying (which is what her thing is.) Now, mathematically, I will, be the Echo Diff, if not in frags; then at least in quicker fly speed velocity.

@@10_days_till_xmas Yeah typically character movement in 3D videogames would not be utilizing all 3 dimensions in the same way, so it is more like 2D movement in that regard. But it still applies to other use-cases outside of the main character's movements, such as with flying enemies, particles, and perhaps scenery.

@@10_days_till_xmas This made me think of flying around in Descent bumping into walls. It was the first game I played with fully 3D movement (up, down, rotation, rolling, etc.) and it got really confusing at times!

This very much applies to 4D games, where the ground is 3D, meaning you need to normalize a 3D movement vector.

I wouldn't say "arcs". Rather "the unit circle", the thing they taught in trigonometry class.

@@nickpatella1525 would rather say vector math

Thats probobly becouse the screen will move slower when you are still holding the same key since you cant move camera around to abuse fastness of it like in 3D games id say its a good idea to keep it fast like you did

little cheats like this are often necessary for things to feel good. it's particularly useful when running up slopes - players rarely want the physics to be realistic in that case, since it only slows them down

The thing about normalizing is that while you move at the same speed in the diagonal direction, you lose speed in the vertical or horizontal direction which discourages you to have a little fun when moving from point A to point B

@@Muho_is_meyeah I noticed this in Stardew Valley, the camera moves a lot slower when walking diagonally and it feels painful so I just avoid walking diagonally even though I know it’s the same speed

@PirateSoftware . That's the only bad thing that I ever found in Heartbound.

Well maybe I didn't graduate 4th grade

I'm pretty sure that's not how Minecraft works. Minecraft's movement system is the same as any other 3D game, so going at a 45 degree angle from the grid won't be faster. In Minecraft, if you move at a 45 degree angle, you're most likely facing in that direction. So you're only holding one key. Hence, it only moves you at the normal speed.

this made me realize that sin²x+cos²x=1 also comes from the pythagorean theorem

trig moment

I know, right normalize it ! ok, show me the math,

when moving diagonally divide the speed by √2 to normalize it

​@firstname4337 divide the vector by the magnitude, also known as length. Generalized by sqrt(x^2 + y^2) for [x ,y] in R^2.

a general version of the solution where the angle of movement can be any angle (not only multiple of 45°) would be to use trigonometry ; vx = cos(angle) * velocity vy = sin(angle) * velocity then use vx and vy to increment your character's position. that's what you would need if your input system allow you to go in any direction (ex following your mouse)

Subpixels are a thing

you could just add (a) conditional check(s) for two perpendicular directions, and have them multiply ur effective speed by .6 to reduce it by 40%

@@ckorp666 doesn’t help

@@arctic8137 aight i wrote this real quick in GML, it should get the job done - player object create: spd = 6 diag_mult = 1 - player object step: xmove = (keyboard_check(ord("D")) - keyboard_check(ord("A"))) ymove = (keyboard_check(ord("S")) - keyboard_check(ord("W"))) xspd = spd * xmove yspd = spd * ymove diag_mult = 1 if !(xmove = 0) && !(ymove = 0) { diag_mult = .6 } x = x + (xspd * diag_mult) y = y + (yspd * diag_mult)

This is probably a late reply but oh well. To "normalise" like it says in the video, you divide the X and Y by the distance moved. So, If you are moving orthogonally, or vertically, divide the X and Y by 1. If you are moving diagonally, divide the X and Y by 1.4. The key thing is to slow yourself down if you are going diagonal. To implement this for any direction, you can do something like: (set initial movement) x = 2 y = 3 (work out length of move) length = √(x * x + y * y) (normalise movement by dividing by length) x / length y / length (movement should now be exactly 1 unit in any direction) (multiply by speed or whatever for final value). The other comment replied with multiplication probably because that's quicker for a computer to do iirc.

@@dephoro Sure, I was just explaining how to "normalise" a vector, so I kept the example as simple as possible. Normally my implementation doesn't use any branches at all. Normally it's just something like: - Get initial vector from input. - Normalise the vector (should just be a function called Normalise) Literally two function calls, you would be hard pressed to find a solution cleaner than that. The Normalise function is also quite a common operation that has been optimised to death(atleast with improvements to sqrt). You can modify it further if you need extra features, but I don't think it gets much simpler or faster than just input.Normalise(). If your engine doesn't have a native Normalise(), you can implement it yourself using pythagoras (it's a single line for the equation, and doesn't involve any branches). Normalise just takes a vector (an X and Y value) and outputs circular values for them, exactly as you describe(It outputs on a unit circle though). What is the difference between your solution and just normalise?

not physics

​@@Narvalo_Lastarnot high school

Bro taught one lesson of pre-algebra.

Yeah because he teaches it assuming that everyone here understands it, it’s more like a refresher

If the norm is zero, the player's not moving in the first place. Not really doing any game programming, but why not just calculate movement whenever there's a movement input?, like: if (inputX != 0 || inputY != 0) { norm = sqrt(inputX^2 + inputY^2); else { norm = 1; } moveVec = (inputX + inputY)/norm; (pseudocode cause I can't bother)

@@ExodiumTM I’m not working on a project atm but the reason I didn’t want to do this is because I don’t want to do an if check every frame or every tick if there is a natural workaround. I’m not sure if one is possible though

@@nuclear7622 to be fair, a single if statement is pretty irrelevant every frame, when other mechanics will inevitably be far more resource-consuming. But you're right, optimally you'd want a faster workaround