I've had MANY saxophone teachers over the decades and Rick Rossi is FAR AND AWAY the best, clearest, most committed, and most effective teacher with whom I've ever been lucky enough to work. Thank you Rick!
I like the way Joe Allard formulated proper lip and tongue position: rest the lip against the teeth as in saying the letter "v" and allow slight pressure to spread the lip outward, and say a soft "kihhhh" to position the tongue. It's complementary with what's being said in this vid. IMO teaching the rolled-in lip position to beginning students is malpractice by teachers trying to get quick get-by results, either through laziness of lack of confidence in the student. Or maybe they're genuinely ignorant of the differences between clarinet and saxophone technique. Unfortunately it is still really common in school band programs. Then the young player hits a wall trying to develop tone and stamina. The lucky ones find someone who can recognize the problem and tell them they've been mis-taught embouchure.
Thank you so much for this video, Rick! I am a beginning tenor sax player - just a few weeks - and I think the difficulty I have been having with lip and tongue is because of the number of years I have played flute. Your new way to position my lip makes so much sense! Now for practice.
I came to this video because 1) I'm a sax player myself and 2) I witnessed an amazing NYC street concert yesterday with multiple sax players. The one who had the open lip embouchure had the best and biggest sound.
Changed my playing immediately!! Thank you! I can finally hit my high notes without the occasional squeak. Does feel weird after playing for 12 years the other way but I'll adjust. I always thought it was because I wouldn't relax my shoulders and didnt have a good reed. But even with changing my reeds, trying different ones, and relaxing my shoulders they still didn't want to come out. Subscribed!!
Very useful information. Those who are pointing out that this is not new information must have started playing after the Internet became available, or had the advantage of having a teacher who learned from Joe Allard or one of his students. Some of us started playing before the Internet and were not near a saxophone teacher when instructional material such as this was rare.
Thanks Heath! I appreciate the support. You'd be surprised at how few people are aware of the Joe Allard information, but you're right about that and to clarify, my concept of embouchure and sound is also coming from my other main influence which is Joe Viola who taught at Berklee School of Music in Boston. He was the first one who had me focus on being aware of how much air I was using to play the horn. He was all about starting with the air first and then speeding it up to produce the sound. Joe Allard was a few months later and he focused on airstream too but more about rolling the bottom lip out and getting it out further on the reed and also getting the tongue up and back. My embouchure is a combination of both of those guys who in my opinion were the greatest masters of the saxophone. Eddie Daniels, Dave Liebman, Michael Brecker and many other contemporary greats studied with Joe Allard, but what's most important is that that embouchure technique WORKS! It totally fixed my embouchure and I'm indebted to both of those guys.
You're welcome! I wish that Joe Viola and Joe Allard had written books about saxophone sound production in addition to their exercise books. I was mostly self taught, but I was lucky enough to study with Dave Tofani for a few lessons and he taught me how to execute the overtones more efficiently than I had previously. I've also benefited greatly from Liebman's books and videos over the years. There is always more to learn and more ways to think about what one already thinks one knows. The basics of breathing and tone quality are should always be a saxophonist's first priority. Thanks again for this video and your reply!
Cool, I've heard from other sax friends about Dave Tofani. He's pretty heavy. Yeah it would have been great to have more information coming directly from Viola and Allard. I really thank Joe Allard's student for having the fore thought to get Joe on video before he was too old. I remember that he was losing his short term memory by the time I started studying with him because he could never remember what we had done from lesson to lesson LOL but it was still great every lesson. And Liebman's book and video on sound come straight from Allard's concepts so yeah I also was really happy that Liebman put that out. It really helped me to clarify some of the concepts. I have some more concepts on how to further develop the embouchure and sound that I've been working on with students. I'm not comfortable in front of a camera or I would share more videos but I am working on producing some more soon in spite of that. lol
I didn't take many lessons from Tofani, because he lives quite a distance from me, but he knows his stuff. The video of Allard, "The Master Speaks", is not very good, because he was suffering from dementia by then. However, there is some good information in it. Liebman is the man! When I first started playing the saxophone and I was trying to do overtones, I emailed him with questions, and he replied. I was like some doofus sending an email to Michael Jackson for singing advice! I've since played with Liebman, and he's a very nice person in addition to being a fantastic player and educator. Your video was very well done and I hope that you produce more of them!
Guys... this is not a new concept... this is just the right way of doing it explained in a different way... nice didatics BTW... sax is a reed instruments... less lips in the reed... more vibration.... more sound... more air flow more sound... steady air flow better sound... good instructional video ... if you was near me i will get myself in few of your classes :D)
+Alexandre Leitão Thanks for your comment Alexandre Leitão! You're absolutely right! Not a new concept at all. I learned it all from first Joe Viola of Berklee School and then reinforced again months later with a slightly different approach with Joe Allard of Manhattan School of Music. That was almost 30 years ago and both of them have been teaching that concept of embouchure their whole career. Guys like Michael Brecker, David Leibman, Eddie Daniels and most of the great saxophone players have had a lesson with Joe Allard. I consider those two guys to be sax doctors . I came to Joe Allard for one lesson and my playing improved probably 20%. And Joe Viola gave me another 10 to 20% in his first lesson. The funny thing is, very few teachers seem to know about it. None of my teachers all the way through graduate school knew of this concept. But as you say, more air flow, more sound. It's pretty simple but it took me a while to unlearn what I had been practicing all my life and to really understand how to effectively work the various exercises that I got from them into my daily routine of practice. Once I started doing that, I started to get consistently better sound. So when I start students off, I get them off to a good start and they don't have to unlearn anything. They just work various exercises into their practice routine and they develop a sound very quickly and naturally.
+Los Angeles Jazz Bands lol... it's still making me sweat to loose the basic embrouchure... people underestimate long tones... they think is just blow and hold for the time... but is more about trying to adapt your embrouchure to get a better sound... is as much listening as playing ... right now I'm lazy... so I don't do it how much I should :)... can I ask a favor?... if you have the time can you cover some smooth jazz licks? those ascending pop licks that just sound amazing... I never could learn them... maybe with you didactics I can understand how to came up with such lines ... and again... you are are great teacher... please keep up with the good work
Thanks Will... Two other things you might try is to use a softer reed then the one you're probably using. I would guess you are using a 2 1/2 or 3. Try a 2 while you're trying to make the changes. You'll see it's so much easier to put the air in and it helps to keep you from biting. Another thing to check your grip from your jaw is to try to take your top teeth off of the mouthpiece while you're holding a long tone. That is a great indicator for how tight you are with your jaw. if it opens up your sound then you know you're too tight. Good luck and let me know how it's going.
I have been using #2 for years Rick. Re: the top teeth, I actually have to work on having the top teeth evenly touching the top of the M/Pc...that is starting to work...I've been playing with them off! The pitch would drift as you can imagine!
Oh OK... that's good that you're not using a hard reed. It's the reason why most people bite so hard. Yes, when you first start working on the top teeth off of the top of the mouthpiece the pitch is definitely wild for a bit (especially in the upper register) but you can see how much it can also open up your sound too right? The key to the pitch is getting the back of the tongue up (and back in your mouth) in that "fast cold air" position. You can also achieve that position of the tongue by singing the highest pitch you can and then keeping your tongue in that position as you play. Let me know if that helps you to get better pitch.
I don't think I could play without my bottom teeth under my lip. But what I don't do is pull my lip in and stretch it over the teeth. I try to keep my lip soft so the reed can vibrate more freely. My teeth are still under the lip but they aren't pressing too hard. Just enough to keep a nice closed seal around the mouthpiece.
Thank you! It is more then useful, i changed my embouchoure like you showed and much much better then the "classic" one. It takes some weeks but it is working well! Thanks again, i recommended it for everyone!
Hi, just wanted to address a common misconception - the diaphragm is an involuntary muscle. You mentioned that you just "push" your diaphragm more to stabilize the sound. There are no sensory nerve endings on that muscle(it does control 75% of the movement involved with breathing), but you can only control the muscles around the diaphragm and use body mapping to make sure the diaphragm is not hindered. I hear to way too often.
I haven't picked up and played a sax in over 13 years and I recently purchased one thinking that I'd lost my embouchure completely and would have to go back to playing "Hot Cross Buns" lol. Surprisingly I still had a fairly decent embouchure, but I was noticing the things you pointed out in my old embouchure and I could tell the sound was fairly thin. I tried the new embouchure and the sound is much more robust, though it was also very obvious after switching that the 13 years most definitely took their toll on me and though I may not have to go back to Hot Cross Buns, I do have a lot of work ahead rebuilding it to get my range back. On the old embouchure I have my full range on the new I struggle with Low C and beyond and have trouble after High D. Unless I'm slurring a scale I can't hit the note on its own. This one lesson felt like it had opened a door that literally held me back 13 years ago and now I feel like my progress will be explosive thanks to you. :-)
It's really great to hear that! Once you open up and loosen the lips and realize the importance of letting the air do the work it can change everything. Then you start realize how hard you were working and how much easier it is to play the saxophone when you have a good airflow. I'm thinking about doing another video to take this new sax embouchure concept a little further. There's so many aspects to it. It's been a few years and quite a of students since that first video lesson and there's been some new ways to get students to get their air moving more. I've got some new imagery and drills to further develop that concept. I haven't had the time but I'd like to get to it this month.
If you decide to make another video I will most definitely look forward to it. I talked to a coworker of mine who is an ex band director and despite him being a math teacher now just hearing about your video just seemed to bring that passion for music to life. Though it did lead to 30+ minute conversation about the importance of a properly developed embouchure. Thank you so very much for all that you do.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm overdue for a follow up to that sax embouchure video. I think I might do a series of short lessons on different drills that you can do and to talk about some new ideas that I've been using with a lot of my sax students with a lot of success. Your words are inspiring! One thing that has been working has been to get my new students while their breaking in the new embouchure with the relaxed lips and lots of air is to go down to a 1 1/2 or 2 strength reed to start. It helps you to be able to relax as you begin to build up new muscles. Try it and watch the embouchure video again trying all the concepts with the sfter reed. ! I think you'll be thanking me again for that tip. :))
Thanks for your comment Alexandre Leitão! You're absolutely right! Not a new concept at all. I learned it all from first Joe Viola of Berklee School and then reinforced again months later with a slightly different approach with Joe Allard of Manhattan School of Music. That was almost 30 years ago and both of them have been teaching that concept of embouchure their whole career. Guys like Michael Brecker, David Leibman, Eddie Daniels and most of the great saxophone players have had a lesson with Joe Allard. I consider those two guys to be sax doctors . I came to Joe Allard for one lesson and my playing improved probably 20%. And Joe Viola gave me another 10 to 20% in his first lesson. The funny thing is, very few teachers seem to know about it. None of my teachers all the way through graduate school knew of this concept. But as you say, more air flow, more sound. It's pretty simple but it took me a while to unlearn what I had been practicing all my life and to really understand how to effectively work the various exercises that I got from them into my daily routine of practice. Once I started doing that, I started to get consistently better sound. So when I start students off, I get them off to a good start and they don't have to unlearn anything. They just work various exercises into their practice routine and they develop a sound very quickly and naturally.
But around the 8 minute mark, when you play the D without the key on the left hand, it first sounds so full and thick, like it has overtones as well. But when you press the high D key, it's a simple note, without the overtones.
Look at pictures of, and listen to, Dexter Gordon and Cannonball Adderley. The emboucher and sound can be observed and results heard from both examples. When a student has the concept in mind of what a big saxophone sound can be, they can more easily reproduce that sound.
what a great video! I used to play with the old embochure, but I've been playing with the new embochure for two weeks. I've noticed a great change in the sound, louder and thicker, but I'm having troubles with high notes. I play soprano and I have difficulties playing notes above high G, and my mouth muscles get tired much more! great video and very helpful :)
Soprano sax is tougher on everyone's embouchure. As you go up higher in the range you have to focus more on getting the tongue back in your mouth (which will also make your tongue go higher) That fast/cold air position is the key element in getting high notes to come out with the looser (more air) grip. Call me and I may be able to diagnose the problem easier. There's a lot of variables but try singing the highest note you can. Then with that same oral position, play the high notes and see if that helps. It's a bit of a struggle between keeping the front of the embouchure looser and yet getting the tongue up and back, but It's all about getting the tongue position right. Rick 818-209-2620
understood very clearly, and thanks because i have developed this annoying damn biting habit on the bottom lip ... :( . I pick up my sax, only to put it away again minutes later as a result of this.
One other thing you can try that's not in the video and you're trying to adjust to the new embouchure with the relaxed lips and using a lot of air is to go down to a 2 strength reed for the adjustment period at least. It helps you to be able to relax as you begin to build up new muscles. Try it and watch the embouchure video again trying all the concepts with a softer reed. That along with just using the concept of NOT using an embouchure at all , but instead imagine that you're just trying to get a lot of air through a pipe. Just start with low pressure air and start to increase the volume and don't try to produce a sound, just keep speeding up the air. If you try that you'll start to see how the AIR is what makes the reed vibrate not your lips. The hardest part of explaining all of this is that the back of the tongue has to be back and up in that cold, fast air position. Watch that part of the video again and then start with the loose embouchure keeping everything but that back of the tongue really relaxed and I think you'll start to understand how the saxophone can actually be a really easy instrument to get a sound with little effort.
I see that you studied with the great Joe Viola and Joe Allard. I think it's great that you're passing on their brilliant words of wisdom in your own way. I still can't figure out how to do this though - my bottom lip hurt like crazy when I do it this "new" way. Is the ultimate goal to have no lip at all over your teeth? Thanks.
I know it's a little scary because it changes the very foundation of your sound production. The hardest thing for me to help you with in this video is the importance of the back of the tongue position. If you're willing to take about 3 private lessons with me, I could really turn your sound into a 30-50% bigger fatter sound and better response and ease of playing. If you want more knowledge on others who use this technique check out one of my teachers Joe Allard ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-K-0N7XETP5M.html and also Dave Liebman (who is a student of Joe's) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ROPRATRrGjA.html ..... I also got a lot of my knowledge from Joe Viola of Berklee School of music. The two Joe's taught the "Who's Who" of saxophone players. Brecker, Eddie Daniels, Liebman, and so many other amazing players in the world. So take a look at those videos and then if you still want some help I can give you some skype lessons to help you to put it together. It's not an easy change but WELL worth the effort! If you want to talk to me about it, call me at (818) 209-2620
Ultimate Saxophone Lessons Upon going back and watching again I realize saying that it contradicts everything I've learned is pretty drastic. The embouchure is actually spot on with what I've been taught (which makes sense, because I've briefly studied with professors that teach the methods of Joe Allard). The main difference in this video to what I've been taught is the tongue position, as I've always been told to use warm air. I appreciate your offer for a lesson, but I'm going to decline for now. Thanks
Zi Ruini It all depends what you want to sound like. Like he said in this example listen to the air without the tone. If you want to sound like his first example of a thin air stream then go ahead. This lesson is nothing radical that only this guy is talking about -it’s a very good take on a classic teaching. Even legit players and clarinetists have their own take on the turning out embouchure concept. It’s just physics man!
I think my lower is positioned like what you’ve described, that is, only the wet part over the lower teeth. But it hurts after practicing 10 minutes or so. What’s wrong?
why when i stop playing,on my lower lip,i found a line due to my lower theets? maybe that part of the lip shouldnt be incontact with my theets?I've got thick lips btw
Yes that is one of the symptoms of having your lip over your teeth which tends to make you bite more. More you squeeze the mouthpiece the more sore your lip will be. Experiment with rolling out the lower lip a little at a time I remember that it's only to allow you to get more air into the tube... If you can hear more air flowing freely (without playing a note... Just the airstream) then you will have remedied your problem of the pain in the lower lip and at the same time you will have a much bigger sound. The best thing is to go through the whole video a few times carefully trying to do all of the various changes and exercises and I think you will see some great results. Remember that that tongue position is really important as soon as you loosen up the bottom lip. If you check yourself with the tuner when you are playing with the bottom lip over the teeth you will probably notice that you're high register Will go sharp. It's a little bit of an involved process so if you have problems give me a call and I'll help you straighten them out. rick@losangelesmusicteachers.com (818) 209-2620
I found out blowing my new mouthpiece with a neck piece while I drive to get my lip braking the mouthpiece. Can you tell me what set up on the alto you are using of mouthpiece, reed, & ligature please ? glen
Great video Rick. Thank you. The mid d is even stuffier on tenor opening palm d helps. I get the tone matching exercise but can the stuffy d be cleared up in the setup of the horn?
Hi I do love your tone for a metal m/piece can you tell me what is your set up please. and I run out of air quick 45 seconds what exercise can i do to solve this problem please ? jaz
This is part of Joe Allard’s method. Larry Teal’s method of the lip tucked in is more thoroughly researched and has produced finer artists. However, there is more to sound production than the embouchure. The purpose of embouchure is to minimize the facial muscles constricting the air channel, because the face and throat muscles are connected. This man doesn’t explain properly the muscular connection of the face to the neck. If he understood the purpose of embouchure, he’d probably be teaching the lip tucked in method, which reduces strain in the neck.
