We did actually mean to mention this! We added about 4 / 5 metres in total to our length and it's been over a year and can't say we have noticed any issues. However I agree the water pump is probably under a bit more stress. We fitted the pipes with as little sharp bends as possible to create as little stress as possible.
In my opinion I don’t think will cause must tear in the water pump, as minibuses also have heat exchangers (central heating style )in the back for the same vehicle.
I think the added stresses on the existing parts of the system the main water pump) are negligible. Also the argument often heard is the cooling system not able to cool as well as before is somewhat of a myth since the heat moved away from the main cooling system into a boiler is actually removed from the system so any cooling issues are a non issue...
We adjust are travel style to suit the system, for example in the morning if the water is cold, we will drive to our next destination and on the way stop to use the water / wash or do it once we arrive. I dont like leaving the engine idling exspecially when parked next to other people.
For those like to try something like this, every combi boiler normally used to heat a house has a calorifier in it, complete with a pressure release valve and a mixer valve. If these boilers are disused usually the boilers are fine and can be had for scrap metal prices... Ask your local friendly central heater people... If you were to plumb in a hydronic heater like a webasto or the like you can have heating in the van, hot water for the galley and even (if plumbed right) a preheating system for the engine for when you are in a very cold climate... Also the use of a hydronic heater device lets you create hot water without the need of the engine to run...
The GMC motorhomes from 1973-78 had this as a stock system in the vehicles. Hot water was supported also by the engine. I think the tank should be much closer to the engine and reduce the coolant needed and exposure of the hoses to failure and damage. Water pumps may also have added stress. It depends on the vehicle. Some vans already have rear heat blowers that could be used for this. My 2017 GMC van did.
I brought a ex telecom van 20 years ago they came with a water tank mounted in the engine bay with a thermostat on to control how hot the water gets; it works in exactly the same way and had a pipe run to the back of the van with a small sink on the inside of the back door the engineer could use to wash his hands.Found it the other day in the loft will be going on Gumtree shortly lol.
Clever idea, I'm thinking of doing the same for my van, I'm guessing you just cut a hole in the floor at the back of the van where the calorifier is for routing the coolant hoses in from the engine?
Just bought this system from your link. Thanks so much, for this video, epic inspiration, been looking for a better heating system. Thanks for this 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Great video and have often thought of doing similar but using T peices from the engine and a 12v solinoid valve to turn on and off so as not to starve the van heater when it cold in cab. Eventually decided on a 12 volt 300 watt immersion heater but this does take 25 amps so you need to be driving not just idling and takes hours.
We looked at getting a 12v imersive fitted to ours but decided the power requirements would be to high to heat the water when we are parked up and it be easier just to run the engine. Can't say we have any issues with cab heaters due to the unit, it does take slightly longer to heat up when its cold but no issues once its all heated.
Great video, thanks for sharing April and Shane. Inspired by your setup we're planning on using a calorifier for our Ducato as well. Did you consider undermounting the calorifier, to save space? A wide 15 liter version might fit in between the fuel tank and the exhaust silencer. In terms of heat economy it might not be the best solution, but it saves a lot of space inside the van. Leaving out the accumulator would also do that. Not sure how bad the pulsing would be. On top of that we're considering using a dual coil calorifier and hooking up the second circuit to a Bobil heat exchanger. It's a fairly inexpensive way to heat up water using hot air from the diesel heater. This way, when we're more than 12 hours at the same location we can still have warm water. In warm climates, hot waste air can be diverted underneath the van. Another option is to use a 12v immersion heater (in the calorifier) for those occasions. I believe they are 300-500w, so on a 2kWh battery you would have at least 2 hours to heat the water in the calorifier, and have 1kWh spare. Would love to hear your thoughts on this! Regards, J&M
Very sorry only just seen this. Under mounting is an option and would save space, I have seen some setups like this and in our next van it may be an option, maybe add additional insulation around the existing to help keep more heat in. We did look at the two coil version but due to where we layer out everything couldn't make it work. I've seen setups where people use a heat exchanger on the room heater to heat up a separate coolant pipe system which you could feed into the second coil, so when your heating your room. You are heating the water as well. Let me know if you do any of these options, be good to hear how it went.
Hi! Great idea! I am considering this calorifier system as well, but I don’t know yet if I’m gonna drive every day to a new spot. So the additional diesel heater system is a good idea as well. My question around this: can I add the diesel heater system afterwards, if I see I need it? I guess I will have to buy the dual coil calorifiers from the beginning? Can I leave one input (for the future diesel heater) open/not connected, until I think I need one? Or does everything need to be connected ? Thank you for the info! 🙏🏽 great video guys! Helps a lot!
I really wish I travelled enough in my van to justify this because it really is my favourite system. So far I'm pretty stationary in the same city but travelling every now and then. It would kind of ruin stealth if I idled where I'm parked at every time I needed hot water which sucks :(( Maybe in the future if my job/life changes I will travel full time and get this.
Did you have to reduce the Internal Diameter (ID) your pipe to use this calorifier? Did it cause any issues? My heater box feed pipe has an ID of 20mm my calorifier coil connectors are only 16mm. I'm afraid this will cause a back pressure.
How do you stop heating and thus boiling off all your water? It appears the long distance to the water tank dissipates heat. I worry that I'll boil all my water away.
Never had any issues, I think as its in a sealed unit the water does not boil away as there is no where for the vapour / liquid to escape, we done 12 hours drives and its all been fine.
Most probably, since it is technically just a water storage unit with a coil running through it, you will just need a clever network to recycle the water and possibly filter it? To stop the shampoos effecting the tank? You could possibly drop to the 6l size tank also. If you do this please let me know how you get on!
You would need a heavity power setup to be able to substain the power requirements for a long period. I did the math with our setup an a 1kw 12v element and it would use a huge chunk of our power reserves to get the water heated up in the 30 to 45 minutes it would need to run. I believe 1kw @ 12v needs 80+amps an hour to run.
Great video, really useful info and well explained. I note the comments embedded in the video on only cutting into one coolant pipe? Do you have any simple drawings to visualise this?
Great video thanks, where did you get the long hoses to go from the engine bay to the calorifier at the back? Oh and what size internal diameter? Many thanks Ian
Just insulate the tank with foam and you'll have water maintaining hot temperatures for upto 3 days. I wonder if there's a system that allows air-heating using engine's coolant?
Are tank is insulated with foam. Lasts maybe 12 hours but really depends on the ambient temperature. You want a heat exchange unit, its basically how your air blowers in the cab work, some vans like a mini bus come with a second heat exchange unit in the rear to provide more heating when the engines running using the coolant system.
Some years ago I fitted a calorifier like yours to a campervan but I used "tee" pieces as I thought that when the heater was off there was no flow through the heater pipes. Is this not so? Because I'm about to do it again to a new campervan build I'm doing at the moment.
We have always had hot water even when the cab heaters are turned off, I believe there is alwasy a limited flow, but I could be wrong. Can only tell you, it works fine for our van being installed inline, and I know of a couple other people who did the same as us and have not had issues. Good luck with your build!
Hi, any problems with the cabin heater now you have conected the tank? Is it inline before or after the cabin heater? Do you have to have the cabin heater on to get circulation on your system?
Yes we always empty the tank during winter when the vans not in use, there is a pressure release valve with a manual override. We did leave it one winter by accident but found not issue (but we probably got lucky).
Hi guys, fantastic idea and very well executed!! Just been discussing that very idea this eve… I have a question for you; what wattage does your immersion heater draw when you heat up the water when stationary ? Just calculating the inverter size needed coupled with everything else on the load. Cheers
Thanks. I believe our immersion is 1000w. We don't use ours on the inverter as it would deplete our battery bank to fast. Its hooked into our mains hook up point, so only usable if we have a mains power supply.
I wish Dad & I had this in our motor caravan back in the 80's. We had a instantaneous gas heater, which was very temperamental. May I ask why it's installed in series with the heater matrix? Presumably you don't get hot water if the heater's off, do you?
Modern systems are more reliable including gas! No we still have hot water even if the heaters are off, the heater matrix in vehicles still heats up, which is why if your been driving for a period of time and go from cold to hot air you get instant hot air from the blowers.
Sorry I dont have anything technicall, I created this rought diagram a while back, its nothing special and may not be what your looking for? but the installtion isnt as complicated as it first appears. Any questions let us know! imgbb.com/b2Gw0H4
@@adventuresinacamper makes sense, just tap into the coolant hose that is exiting the heater matrix and back into that same hose on the return. i get it. thank you
A bit late I realise, but I think I might have bumped into you guys at Quirky a couple of years ago? Anyway I had a question about the heater hose from the engine - do you know what the spec / where to buy it? Is it like a 15mm or something? Cheers 🙂
I always thought it was so wasteful to lose all the heat from the engine (an ICE is only about 35% efficient) and then use a totally separate (propane/diesel/electric) system to heat the water up from scratch - crazy humans! Question, please: If the heat from the cooling system is being absorbed by the tank... How do you heat the cabin in the winter whilst driving? Is there enough residual heat coming back into the heater matrix? Does it take ages to heat up the heater vents' air?
We havent noticed any issues in the winter, I think it is slower for the heater matrix (cab heaters) to initially heat up, probably I wouldnt say its anything noticable / concerning, maybe 5 minutes longer.
@@shanerutter Thank you for your prompt and insightful reply - really appreciated. And thanks also for bringing this system to people’s attention in such an informative manner. Good work. Enjoy your travels :)
We have a Shurflo water pump which works on pressure, due to the lack of water pressure the pump keeps pumping water into the system until the pressure builds up and it cuts out. As you use water, the pressure drops and the pump kicks back in. Hope that helps!
Where you cut the pipe... there is normally a switch/valve to allow fluid into the heater matrix which is controlled by the heater on/off controls. Did you cut before the switch or after? I’m assuming before otherwise you’ll have to turn on the cab heater in order to heat your water up.
I believe the switch you mention is on the heater matrix or very near it, since we cut inside the engine area I believe it was before. However I am lead to believe the heater matrix still has a minimum flow of coolant, as even if we have the cab heater off / cold, the water still heats up.
@@adventuresinacamper thank you for getting back to me. I realised the same as I was driving noticing that the heater is still warm when off. I’m going to be doing the same as you on a Sprinter 2016 and I thank you for showing me this amazing idea. 👍👍
That’s what I was looking for! :) How long do you have to drive to heat up the water ? So for example I often travel short distance like 20-30 minutes, would this be enough? Ps, winter is coming here in Germany :D
About 30m should do it. But it really depends on how cold your water is and how fast your engine heats up? For example if your driving for 20m at 60mph it will get hotter quicker than driving for 20m at 30mph.
@@adventuresinacamper not at all true - bc the engine thermostat controls the temperature - it does not vary with speed otherwise manufacturers could control emmisions.. In a unit such as yours I would expect the engine to reach full operating temperature within 3 to 5km, depending on ambient temperature.
Speed is probably the wrong wording, work load on the engine. For example sitting idle takes longer for the engine to heat up, going for a drive putting the engine under load causes it to heat up quicker. By speed i was referring to the revs as in my van its more revs to maintain 60mph than 30mph the engine is under a bit more load.
Thanks, are you referring to the cooland pipes from the engine? They are just 5m lengths of engine coolant pipe, just measured the diamiter of the pipes for my van and brought the same ones in the required length to reach to the calorifier and back to engine.
@@adventuresinacamper the pipes that come from the engine bay to the calorifier , as they leave the engine bay they look as if they are insulated i can only find the big diameter stuff what you would use in the construction industry can you advise
@@bernardpepper6568 There is no insulation on those pipes other than the pipe it self, it is engine coolant hose which is quite thick rubber pipe by itself. Here is an ebay listing I found of the type of stuff we used. Hope that helps. www.ebay.co.uk/i/113822964820?chn=ps&var=414028965093&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=414028965093_113822964820&targetid=1000147648940&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1006653&campaignid=10199631037&mkgroupid=101938325957&rlsatarget=aud-381667280803:pla-1000147648940&abcId=1145985&merchantid=119065133&gclid=CjwKCAiAiML-BRAAEiwAuWVggkNwNRCFa0NGGqZ_E6m3XPwaJFQJjCQf_bPU3gJ0s60I_ZopmSZz5RoCnXIQAvD_BwE
Great video! I have been looking for build with this style water heating for a while. My one question is do you remember the diameter of the coolant pipe and where you got the pipe from? I am thinking of doing this on a Fiat Ducato but trying to cost up this heating system. Thanks
I think it was 15mm inner diamater pipe and we got it from ebay, I initially cut the pipe on the vehicle and meased the inner diamater, cannot garantee your pipe will be of the same diamater. Ours is a Fiat Ducato.
Thanks for , info . Looks an ideal set up . What was the cost please and did I hear correctly , if required you can turn on an emersion heater to heat the water , when you have not driven for a day or so. Cheers Ralph
The calorifer was about 350 I think then then pipes and connections on top, I don't have an exact cost. Our calorifer has a 230v immeraion heater installed so if we had electrical hook up we can heat the water, but this has actually stopped working so needs further investigation.
We haven't had issues in the 1+ year we have been using it, in all tempature you see in the UK. With the engine maintaining the coolant tempature and the flow I doubt the tempature will be noticible, however it be good to hear from people who have this type system in the sub 0 tempature.
You meaning the water in the tank? The calorifer is inside the van so the inside of the van would have to be uncomfortably low, the calorifer is insulated so will stay warm for a long period. We haven't had any issues with freezing, however if you arnt going to be using the van during cold weather you should empty the tank to be safe.
Sorry meant to ask . Does it also come as a complete kit , expansion tank and heater , I assume the filters are separate . I do really like this , cheers for info
I'm not sure if anyone does kits, I think it all depends on your setup. Surecal where we got ours the calorifer description told you what size expansion tank you needed. The water filters are separate, you don't need them but we have them to help make sure our water is save go drink.
Yes we are in the UK. I am not aware of there US shipping, however it is a large item, so I would think it would be very expensive. Thanks for watching.
Putting any other device in line with another works great as long as you have both devices valved open. In this case the heater valve of the van's heater needs to be open (full) to allow hot water to flow through the calorifier as well... or is your heater valve a bypassing type?
From what I understand the heater matrix on the vehicle is always open (there is no valve, other than maybe an emergency bypass) and coolant is always flowing, even if you have the cold air on in the cab, the heater matrix is still being heated, so fitting inline works, however I cant be sure on all vehicles, but I would suspect most vehicles work the same way.
@@adventuresinacamper There is for sure a means to regulate the amount of flow reaching the heater matrix. Every vehicle has a knob or a dial on the dash connected to this valve. It could be that a heater valve can not be fully shut off but I am not sure about that.
@@koningbolo4700 Yep just did a couple searches your probably right, I think I intsalled our unit on the in ways direction so the calorifer is before the heater matrix. The carlorifer does not have a value on the heater side, so probably why it still gets hot even if we are using just the cold blowers in the cab.
@@adventuresinacamper If your heater core adjustament valve closes all the way when you don't want any heat (turned the dail way down) then your calorifier will not get any flow no matter where in the line the thing is plumbed in...
@@koningbolo4700 What if he connected it up before the valve of the heater matrix? then it would always be heated but that shouldn't be a problem unless it's empty.
No worries. It was just a random place on ebay. I think they where 16mm inner diameter right angles but you will need to verify what size you need as all vehicles are different and even our van had different diameter pipes available.
We hooked it in before the heater matrix, ran the engine and felt the pipes to see which one heated up first. On the calofier I don't think it matters which way.
So it would be more efficient to have the hot water from the engine entering the calorifier at the lowest point, and returning from the highest; heat rises and so the fresh hot water will be coming into contact with colder water and that increases the temperature gradient, and thus the efficiency.
Great idea but where can you buy such a small indirect hot water cylinder ? Also how do you regulate the heat and stop the flow when the water is becoming too hot ?
@@adventuresinacamper thanks for the reply. What I'm trying to say is the water in the cylinder will continuously get hot. If you drive for a long way, have you got some way of diverting the hot water away from the cylinder ? I see you have a pressure relief valve. I'm surprised it's never been set off, or have you never driven far enough in it? Since writing the comment , I've fitted a 30 litre direct cylinder which I heat using a generator. Your way is obviously a better idea but finding a small indirect cylinder is almost impossible.
We have a 2l expansion tank installed on the hot water out, so as the water expands due to heat the expansion tank allows the expansion. You need a expansion tank based on the size of your calorifer. We have drove for 12+ hours at times and never had an issue due to the expansion tank. Without it, you are right the emergency pressure relieve valve would have triggered.
@@adventuresinacamper I've fitted a 5l expansion vessel although I'm not sure if it's overkill really as I only keep the generator on for 30-45 mins to heat the water up enough. I notice that your cylinder is only 10 litres . Do you find that enough to shower with ?
@@KaptainKastle We don't have a shower hooked up to it. We have friends who used the 10l setup and said it works fine, however if you have room 20l would allow you to have longer showers.
Great video, thank you. I'm planning to do the same on a ducato. Do you by any chance remember the ID size of coolant hose you've used? Is it 16mm? If so, did it fit okay on the calorifier? I think mine has a 15mm connection, bit worried if it would leak with 16mm hose over it. Any boring technical details would be greatly appreciated (first time I'm doing plumbing) Cheers
Its been so long, but I believe it was 16mm inner diameter. I believe mine was 15mm as well, I did the jubelies up really tight though and it seems to have held fine. You could if you wanted to convert down from 16mm to 15mm pipe to get a better seal.
Hi, for a shower I would recommend purchasing a shower mixer tap, this way you can control the tempature of the water by mixing in cold water as required, as the water in the unit gets really hot. Our van is fitted with 12mm flexi pipe and the calorifier has 15mm push fit connections. We used a 15mm push fit to 12mm barbed connection, then ran the hot water pipe to are facets (sink), but you would run this to your shower mixer tap or via a Y spliter if you want to supply multiple taps.
Hi it should work with any engine, it just uses the engines coolant fluid to heat the water. However I am not an expert and lack knowledge when it comes to older vehicles, but it should be the same.
@@adventuresinacamper the 50A rating is likely when only relying on DC from battery bank. If the engine is doing the most of the heating then the battery bank would be supplemental. I believe the electric coils are typically only used to keep it within a warmed up range so that coolant heat exchange has less time needed to get it to boiling temps. But that depends on the design and would need to confirm with SureCal. I know other companies design them that way.
Can I come see you and maybe you can help me? Next week I am getting the lines put in by a mechanic mate. But setting the tank etc is leaving me concerned.
Are you referring to the piping for the water side? or the coolant pipes from the engine? We are not experts, just showed how we did it with our setup, I can try and help you remotly, what van do you have and what is your current water system setup? Do you have the same calorifer as us?
@@adventuresinacamper we have only a small mini camper. Toyota estima. The pipes I'm worried about is connecting up the tank etc. Then connected a sink tap to it and then a shower hose. That be great to help remotely.
We have the following calorifer. www.surejust.co.uk/10-litre-vertical-single-coil-surecal-calorifier. They have documentation with diagrams explaining how to hook it up. As for water tanks, this depends on your vehucle we have a 65l under slung tank, I presume you couldn't for this? So would need to find somthing you could fit. The system requires pressure to work so you will need a pressure water pump, we use a 30psi shurflo pump.
You will need Water tank (size is up to you) - to hold your water Accumulator (not 100% required, but this will help stop pulsing of the water coming out of the taps) Water Pump (We use a shuflo pump) Calorifier expantion tank (sized to the calorifer, to allow the water to expand when it heats up) Plus all the pipes, connections and other little bits. Then its anything specific to your setup so for you it would be a mixer tap for you sink, and a mixer value for your shower.
@@vvkilin I havent tried it so not sure, I think the main difference is you could add isolation values to the parallel setup to isolate the unit if you had a leak for example.
The water stays hot for a long period (up to 12 hours depending on conditions), after 30 to 40 minute drive. You can also just leave your engine idling to heat the water up, or you can get units with immersion heaters such as a 230v element or even 12v (havent tried these). Really depends on your style of travel, if you are going to be stopped for days and dont want to run your engine, then this probably isnt for you, unless you get a system with a second coil and use another system to also heat the water like a space heater.
Hi Guys, great video and you have convinced me that this is the way to go. However, i have a question... Can you explain your decision to put the calorifier in series with your heater matrix? in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cFkOs8MyZFw.html the guy installs Tees in place of elbows and has the heater in parallel. There must be pros and cons but i wondered how you arrived at your decision. Happy travels
Thanks for watching! The people we learned this setup from had installed it this way, and as it worked for them we decided to go with the same installation, I guess it means only cutting one pipe compared to both. The main benefit I see going parallel is you could install taps so that you could isolate the calorifer if say you had a leak... But in all honesty its not to hard to disconnect are L piece and just connect it back into the main lines removing the calorifer from the loop. There could be benefits such as your water may heat up quicker, but I cannot confirm. If you go with the parallel setup, let us know how you get on / what heat up times you get, be interesting to compare!
