How to Install a Whole-House Ductless System | Ask This Old House 

A system like that installed is 20k so it's really simple til you have to work on it

@@bmillwood6666 What’s complicated about working on a heat pump…do tell us…

There are shows back 30 years where his Dad was the HVAC guy and Richard part of the team doing the Labor.

Richard Trethewey

Thank you so much Jack this will be very helpful for me when making a decision to retrofit an HVAC in my home.

I will use this advice when we go for our heat pump, thank you for the insight 🙏🏾

Dave C. Your install is very simular to my system in Central Va but I did not expect the two ton Mitsubishi to provide 99% of my heating needs. I do bring up the hotwater heat a few days a year when we have zero degree mornings. The unit will be break even after four winters and whats not to love how they manage summer time humidity?

Wow, you're an idiot.

Electric heat would work if the electricity remained cheap... or, if you generated your own electricity via rooftop solar... hmmm... an idea whose time has really come?!

+S. Brian Chong , It takes a LOT of PV to feed heating systems!! For our current house, estimates for 12.5 KW of PV panels, would only cover about HALF or less, of our winter electric bill, for a 1970’s basic, substandard construction, 1500 s.f. tract house. We have 4 adults living here, all running multiple electronics, some are 24/7....efficiency of those cannot be decreased, yet. If we first get one of the highest efficiency heat pump mini-split ductless systems [Daiken, Fujitsu], THEN that same PV array, MIGHT almost feed our whole electric bill, including heating...that is, Until the utility jacks-up electric costs again. Also figure: Tax assessors jack-up property value/taxes, every time they see a property improved...new roof, adding a driveway, solar energy installations, other houses sold for massively higher prices during the year, etc. Electric resistance heat [portable heaters, baseboard heaters, etc.] are costly to run, due to electricity costs increasing so much. But electric resistance heaters CAN be more efficient than HVAC blowing through many feet of ducting [depending on how well or not the ducting is insulated], because blowing the air you just paid to heat, immediately loses upwards of about 75% of the heat you just paid to make; that is how promoters of baseboard heaters, or ceiling radiant electric, got away with claiming those cost less to use than central HVAC. Still interested in Solar heating? Cheapest solar heat we’ve experimented with, was Solar Air Heat panels. I built a 64 s.f. array, using recycled aluminum cans [there’s some magic physics for choosing that]. Booted those thru a small south window, in a 100+ y.o., approx. 900 s.f. house which had been “brought up to code”, in SW WA State. Used that for about 3 years with the original cheap corrugated greenhouse plastic panels [bad idea]; upgraded cover material after a few years, to Twinwall Polycarb. panels, which sealed better, &, added a 4” duct fan to boost air flow through the system. Some use computer fans run directly off a little solar panel. That saved between about 100 to 300 kWh, off usual electric heat energy costs [usual heat included a Cadet wall heater in each room, or, a single oil-filled radiator running on 600 watts only]. That translated to saving between $10 to $50 per heating month. CAVEAT for our location: There are about 2 weeks, approximately between Christmas and New Years, when we closed the boot box vents, then opened them once the “dark days” passed. But that was real money saved. CAVEAT for season: Solar Air Heating panels need to be covered during summer, to avoid heating the area and adding to urban warming, or melting down its components.

He also described the cables for the heating wrong! They go on the bottom of the sheetrock and then a skim coat to hide the cables, can't touch the insulation.

HVAC pros are really good at installing technology that ends up draining the bank accounts of people in the long and short term.

@@bebo5558 exactly, how the hell could one have hot wires touching insulation that woudl be a fire hazard.

Yeah, the rafters aren't connected with nails to the walls and joists so that's good.

@@percyfaith11 so how do you think that they are connected?

@@allanmann2597 ask David Bergen. He's the one that thinks mounting the air handler to the rafters will prevent vibrations from being transferred to the living space. Hint, it was sarcasm.

@@percyfaith11 Since you don't know how well this works, it works great, you should refrain from sarcasm. You only make yourself look ignorrant.

@@davidbrogan606 Ignorrant?? What is more ignorant than to suppose that mounting an air handler to the rafters will prevent vibrations from being transferred to the rest of the house? How's that work when the rafters are nailed to the joists which are connected solidly to the rest of the house? You have to isolate the vibrations from the structure with rubber pads or other vibration isolation material. I'll refrain from sarcasm when you refrain from silly statements.

It is a good explanation how it works and what it is. However, it is horrible how to video.

Yes unless the master bedroom is in the attic...then what? I'm trying to figure out how to add heat to an old house with an attic bedroom. Does anyone have advice?

Not New but Old and used in ASIA and Europe for a long time..

An AC unit is a heat pump, a one way heat pump.

How much did you end up spending on the system?

JudgeDroid I think just short of $4000

Woah! That's awesome. I've been looking for an alternative to running duct in our house. This is such a cool idea!

Grand Junction Guy There are actually ducted systems using the same base compressor to get air to different rooms. Much smaller than typical ducting so if there is a minimum attic or crawl space it can be done. Or can have a paired unit in another part of the house. So one condenser unit but multiple mini-split indoor units, each with it's own settings. Costs a lot more though. In my case one more indoor unit would have doubled the cost. One unit works pretty good for my little house (800 square feet.) Then add electric or portable AC to areas it can't reach well.

Thanks for your help. I'll check it out. Got a 70s style ranch house, and baseboard will be fine, we'd just prefer to switch at some point, and it's a lot about the cost of removing all the drywall and installing duct. Had no idea this existed, so it's cool to have options!

MaximilianK1 Google Mitsubishi CituMULTI R2 systems

You've glossed over the fact that most houses have unconditioned attics. You can't (ok, you can, but you absolutely shouldn't) install a/c equipment or even ducts in an unconditioned attic. This is building science 101.

Will agree the lack of technically compete techs is a evolving problem but Mitsubishi has addressed the servicing of their products with online diagnostics that should help. The low cost of many brands suggest they are following tv's as being throw-a-way products.

@@trevorlambert4226 Insulated ductwork fixes that mostly, but your cost for that part of the system just tripled.

Well yes and no, You see in a standard heat pump the Air Conditioner capacity for cooling cant be over sized, both by code and actual operation. It will cause mold, temperature swings and freezing up. BUT an AC system only makes a 20 degree difference in temperature by design, So it is only cooling 90 degree outside to 70 inside, where as a heat pump must do 40-50 degree differences. But with a single speed compressor ether the AC is oversized and the heat pump side is undersized or the other way around. Now with VFR we can have a properly sized heat pump compressor that's got the capacity but can scale its power down so its not grossly oversized in cooling mode.

Ozzie Sheppard That makes sense. Though then this implies a few more steps than just “if inverter then better performance” like Richard explains it. Thanks for the info anyway!

Any time, I think he just says that to make it simple for people that don't understand things like manual J calcs, ETC.

On top of the benefits Ozzie mentioned, inverter mini splits just about always have an electronic TXV and variable speed fans inside as well as out. Compared to a conventional unit, they run close to optimal over a huge range of conditions.

Ye cannat break the laws of physics cap'n!

It'd be about 35-40K for me to do that same system for one of my customers.

I know this man and his family. He said they’ve had a subpar experience. Energy bill didn’t decrease any significant amount. And the air handler is very loud.

@@DctorSkillz1 OOF!

It’s 20 to 30 year old tech at this point

Prices will date the programme and negatively affect its resale value. They were given in the first series, but then stopped when it was renewed. Google is always going to give you today’s market price anyway, so what’s the point?

My Father had this system in his home in NCarolina. It was great until the ceiling fell in and the entire system had to be abandoned. It was a friggin catastrophe when it happened!

My issue would be heat rises and it is already above your head.

there are at least 2 videos of Tom installing a whole house fan in a residential home

How about a swamp cooler instead?

I was just in the DR and there was only one place that I saw one of these....but it was the best A/C out of every other building we went into.

Turk Blackwell yeah they’re great. In DR this is honestly their only option since you can’t have a window unit (theft prevention/windows have rebar). I have seen them in Mexico and here in NJ at my barbershop. At the resort we stayed in Mexico the unit was so efficient that we kept it at 69°F while outside temperatures were in the high 90s

Do you know how much HVAC techs make down in the DR? My wife and I have been looking into moving there

@@davidcerino1145 i wish i could move there but with money

@@wilg4654 same here. I install these systems in WA state. While I am aware that I cant make nearly half of what I make here down in the DR, I was hoping at least I could land a specialization job like this down there.

Laughs in 2021 housing market voice

Radiant heat is terribly inefficient. I’d imagine electricity bill is a quarter. Probably 20 years. Plus radiant heat is very dry

bdbrolly oh these systems are neat. Mitsubishi has a system that allows for dual heating and cooling simultaneously.

Just adding a note here that I recently saw one demoed that took this to all another level. They've actually added brains to that manifold box and some kind of valving. Let's say you've got one air handler on the west side of the house that's getting direct sunlight in the evening and that room is heating up. At the same time the basement bedroom is running at 65° because it's subterranean. This one is smart enough to interconnect those two in such a way that it actually dumps The heat from the bedroom down into the basement. Basically before it dumps temperature to outside or pulls temperature from outside it balances the inside first

Kevin Johnson Still 25k

You make absolutely no sense. Your system is broken if your coil is icing at 98F.

Ben Hines I like the idea of wall mount outdoor better

Top of the unit also bolts to the house which he didn't show.

@@garyduke23 Also looks like they still needed to screw it down to the concrete pad. They probably did that last.

@@dylanreischling4151 you probably need some distance from the house...

@@ovidiuciuparu6421 what?

😢

Now you need wind power turbines or solar panels and a storage battery to power your system.

Sounds like they were poorly sized or installed wrong

I think it's less complicated when you look at it as 4 small systems. They run independently of each other other than they're connected to same outside unit.

How much ball park figure does it cost to buy hardware & installation?

@@CharlesLukoba i have a 3 ton, 3 zone units. One 18k btu and two 9k btu. Contractors wanted to charge me 20k, I have a 609 universal license so I bought the equipment from a distributor for $4900. All together with everything I had to purchase to get it running, I spent $6500. I installed it myself.

A Font Jesus so the profit margin (greed)company’s charge is what kills making it more affordable for the average consumer not so much the equipment .i couldn’t sleep a night knowing I ran my company that way ,I’m not the cheapest in my field but I’m not raping customers just to have excessive profits for my Benefit .no I’m not in the ac heat biz ,so maybe I’m disconnected on actual labor cost of these type systems ,so I would like to hear somebody chime up on justifying such a jump in price of 6-7 grand materials to a total 20 grand with installation .i could see if access is limited complicated and more time consuming but a traditional house with a clear attic and or crawl space I wonder .

@@kevinclark4459 when I looked at my quote they wanted to charge me to mount the evaporator head which is the part that blows the heat into the house, $4500 per evaporator. Mounting that evaporator is the easiest part of the job.

This is amazing. Do you think it will do the job in a New England cold weather?

Richard Garrow just a single unit like showed in the first half of video with the electric heater was ab $2600 to have installed for a very large room. Don't know too much more. They are basically maintenance free and fewer points of failure compared to a traditional central air. They last a very very long time too. Especially since you don't use it as much only when the room is being used. It can cool the room down from 80 to 66 in minutes while 100 outside it's great

Richard Garrow yes...Dan Lacker here has presented a good estimate, I was gonna say 2000 or a little more for a single head unit for one room from my experience in construction

Thank you both for your replies it is extremely helpful.

300$ - single unit with 4" flexible duct that throws hot air into outside space through a hole in a window or in a wall. Requires cloze to zero installation (attaching adapter for its duct to a window). Comes with this adapter [4"duct->window]...

thank you Alek much appreciated information..

😆 say what now ??

There's backup electric heat.

They’ll still heat down to -15f

@@mark31383 Ooh - we have had -20F here in Flagstaff, but only once. We have a gas fireplace that will probably be our backup for the really cold days.

This reminds me of an episode of Futurama where Amy and fry go for a ride on mars in her car and each person has their own climate control zone and they keep offsetting each other by increasing hot and cold instead of turning both down.

hot air rises, heat transfers to cold...... that's why they're called hot air balloons, not heat balloons LOL

Yes sir, heat pumps are only good till about 35-40 degrees Fahrenheit. Here in Texas we actually install heat pumps and gas together(Dual Fuel system) from time to time. Primary source of heat is the heat pump and if it cant keep up or runs for an extended period the gas furnace will engage and shut down the heat pump.

@@jesseluna4731 Ahh - so installing 2 systems is a sure way to save money?

@@Redandranger Its not 2 systems. it's still one system, with 2 separate heat sources which can heat the home if the outside conditions becomes too cold for the heat pump to run. a gas furnace an evaporator coil and a heat pump for the condenser instead of a straight cooling unit makes it a dual fuel system. which is still "one system"

wrong it's embedded in the sheetrock I've installed quite a bit of it in the past,at least the products I've installed.

@@sirstomper how do you embed it in the sheetrock?

Nothing. Drywall is fire resistant.

@canuckguy worried You ever have your drywall catch fire?

Geoff Pritchard hey, if steel beans can burn...

You could but it’s quite a bit move invasive and complicated and won’t be half as comfortable

got'a set up that service call ;) Oh you DON'T want the extended warranty? No problem I'll just put this Teflon tape away. ;)

“Nylog is for techs that don’t know how to make proper flare fittings”. That’s what my AC teacher used to say.

@@peteaulit your teacher probably doesn't use digital gauges or a micron gauge either. Stuck in his old ways. Make good flares AND use nylog.

@@aaroncruz5854 funny... my teacher thought me how to use a micron gauge and the importance of using it. He was also an experienced refrigeration tech who knew how to make leak-free flare fittings having worked on semi-hermetic compressors, something that clearly a lot of techs lack these days. So is nylog a good thing to use? Maybe but it’s not necessary. Another thing he used to say is that you can make an AC tech out of a refrigeration guy but the other way around is much harder and I definitely second that!

@@peteaulit yes, going from hvac to refrigeration is more challenging. Only the good ones can push through and learn both. I would challenge that pressures for 410a and having flare fittings, while perfect, could still develop a leak. And better safe than sorry. Plenty of bad techs in commercial refrigeration also.

roadrunnersk2 a simple zoned HVAC system, while simple, does not quite have the same efficiency as these systems. Hell, if you have a furnace, often times the bypass will trigger the hi-limit when only one zone has a heat call. Of course, the other side of the coin is the problem with servicing these systems

Recall the RAID disk storage approach. Redundancy and low cost that enables using smaller but multiple units that can back each other up. Put a high seer small mini in each room or connected space as good load design calls for. Because of the herein discussed inverter technology, each one can have some oversizing without efficiency loss. If one unit breaks down, and that always happens at night or on a weekend (think OVERTIME), just open the doors and let the adjoining units carry until the errant unit can be repaired, during those wonderful "regular business hours". One compressor per house? No, don't make me! As I commented in another reply, air circulation and purification (exchanging with outdoor air) can be done separately. Or just open a couple of windows now and then?

This isn’t a HVAC class or a physics course. The details on how it’s done don’t matter here. He explains the basic refrigerant cycle and that’s plenty for people who watch this. Those who want more can find it online.

A week later, the family was diagnosed with liegionares disease, and a month after that the home burned down due to faulty electric in the unit itself

Ceilings impervious to nails, screws, drills, and just about any other kind of damage. And heat rises, so it keeps itself warm. /s

He is gaining Central air. I'm doing this for the ac the heat pump is just a bonus

Not worth it, do the math. Needs to be replaced in 20’years.... Thats $2k per year TCO plus utilities. No thanks.

Where are you getting this 40k number from? The outdoor units run from like 1000 to 5000, then each of the indoor units are 500 to 2000.. I could buy all the equipment for my 2000 sqft house for like 10k to 12k.

@@michaelblackmer8183 Plus licensed installers, running electric and plumbing to each location. His numbers has got to be more accurate than yours.

paid $4800, 1200sqft, 4 head

The Hi or high heat version of that equipment is efficient at lower temperatures

@@peteaulit you're right but not to 5 degrees

there's the rub. Nice and comfortable, except for your wallet.

$4,600 with 18 months financing interest free.

@@billyrowe0064 Where you get that info? It says 10K+ above, and I am sure this install was WAY more than that. Just a single mini split install maybe 4-5k!

Van L could you name a few models for residential inverter type heat pump systems? Thank you.

I saw these all over Australia when I was there. One benefit is in most the rest of the world ductless is common, older and affordable tech. But its still new to the US [ thanks to hvac manufacturing lobbyist] , and as usual the US consumers get charged a premium.

www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-POWERBANK-Included/dp/B074T365VP

Thank you Jason !

@@billblendick9780 You're welcome!