I thought if a player was injured, you had to disclose it before you traded him. That would put it on the Avs unless Johansen is legitimately injured and didn't tell Avs management or decided he was injured after the trade, in which case I think terminating his contract is fair.
As an Avs fan that watched almost every game, I don't think he told the avs. They would have preferred to put him on IR and use the cap space. The whole reason they traded him and gave up a first round pick to get rid of him is because he was playing terribly in every role they tried him. If the avs knew he was injured badly they'd have put him in recovery so they could use him at 2C in the future.
@@zachgamingzone I really got no clue about "behind the scenes" of pro sports but wouldn't you assume that staff that works with him basically everyday on and off the ice should notice anything in general and make tests for that? 😅
@@Taubogason.40 Hockey players are not even remotely similar to everyday people, and the same goes for the medicine involved. I'd say it's more akin to wartime soldiers and field medicine. The first priority is returning to the fight rather than rest and recovery. Case and point: Alex Killorn (very good middle six forward) broke his leg in the 2021 Cup Final. He decided to just have his whole effing fibula replaced with a metal rod so he'd be ready to go if the series went to seven games. He didn't get to play again that series, but he did skate the Cup around Amalie Arena. Legendary? YES. But also common in the NHL. Edit: punctuation
@@boltinabottle6307 I know that it's a lot different but it's kind of weird to me that Avs either did not know about a "potential career ending injury" or let him play (considering his AAV and benefit of LTIR) and even traded him. I also do not know his injury history, so he might have had problems with something for some time or bad luck with several similar injuries. 😅
It's not shocking if Johanssen happens to have an injury that he was willing to play through on a cup contender but wasn't willing to for an AHL team. It's unlikely such an injury would be career ending and that's what's always been bizarre about this one.
Another possibility is that Philly wants a way to get out of the contract. Ryan has hip issues, so it is possible he's been playing with terrible pain for quite a while, and it has gotten worse. Just look at Backstrom. He suffered for years before retiring.
he was never ever gonna play in the NHL for Philly. Briere made that clear. He said he'd play for Torts. Briere said Ur going to the AHL bud and then the guy suddenly says 'ow my leg'
Philly isn't getting out of the contract, Ryan was traded by Torts in Columbus. I am guessing he had no choice, so an injury was the only way to keep his $8M and not lost marketability by being assigned to the AHL
As a preds fan this one stings😭, at one point during the 2017 playoffs he got injured before the finals which was considered a huge blow to us and “reasons why we lost” that final, seeing him without a contract will never sit right with me😢
@@1aml3g3nd13 not sure if you remember games 1, 3 or 4 but the Preds were torching Murray left and right. Then all the guys scoring got injured and Vernon Fiddler wasn't enough to pull it off.
With how harsh they worded the statement, im willing to bet the Flyers Organization has proof of some type of breach. Wether that is hes not actually injured, Possibly a text chain or video evidence of him doing something that proves he is worthy of playing ALH or NHL hockey. You never see orgs do things like this unless they are 100% sure they are going to win.
Video of him surfaced and was seen by the team of him dancing at his wedding, lifting and carrying his new wife around, etc., allegedly. And there was something about him aggravating an injury while playing on a hoverboard-I wouldn’t be shocked if either of those things factor in.
The burden to prove Johansen didn't breach his contract is likely on him, and whether he succeeds is anyone's guess. If somehow the contract termination is overturned his days playing in the NHL may be numbered considering that last season, for the 1st one since the lockout-shortened 2012-13 one, he came nowhere close to averaging ½ point per regular-season game. That he's in his 30s, even if only his early ones, may mean his next contract will be a short one or, if outside the NHL, somewhere overseas.
his contract probably includes language that he can play. If he turns around and says he can't play and refuses to, that seems like an obvious material breach. His own claims are the proof if they dispute the contract he signed.
You would almost assume that he was willing to take massive amounts of pain meds to play through the injury with Colorado chasing a cup, but once he got traded to Philly he wasn't willing to play through it anymore. Still extremely shady, Colorado may not have even known he was managing the injury, or injured at all. Or Colorado lied, and then they should be on the hook. Likely this just gets settled in arbitration and everyone walks away.
yeah this is probably a large part of it. Lots of guys are willing to play through injuries to have a shot at winning, very few are going to deal with the injury and get buried in the minors so a crap team they've been traded to can get a pick, and some minor cap relief. It seems like the Avs and the Flyers both thought they were going to get what they want at the expense of the player, and it didn't quite work out like that.
Thanks for pointing out the pain meds angle. I think people would be surprised what a lot of players take to play through injuries or even just while they’re injured.
This was my thought. He already had one poor go around with him; why put yourself through more torture. Clearly with Torts, the guy either loves you or hates you and the rumors of his relationship with Johansen were not good. So why submit yourself or take a knee trying to appease him when all it does is allow Torts to treat you like garbage.
nah, he said publicly he had no issues with Torts and wanted to play. IT was Briere who said no we don't want you, you WILL go to the AHL. johanson was only taken to mke the walker trade happen. He was NEVER gonna play for the Flyers. Now he makes up a fake injury because he doesn't want to go down to the AHL. Like hes too good for that
Torts got more out of Philly than anyone expected but everyone blaming the coach. Do your job, get paid or deal with the people above you period. Welcome to the real world!
Did he though. He undermined players he is supposed to be developing, rode the team through several brutal slumps with no turn around, watched while they traded away Walker for a pick, who was clearly the glue that made the team go, continued to do exactly what he was doing before while the team dropped like from a near certain playoff spot to missing the playoffs as multiple teams on life support passed them, resulting in a high pick draft pick, during a year where everyone thought the team was in prime rebuild, waiting for Michkov. It will be very interesting to see how this goes, now that they got MM much sooner than expected, but I just don't find Torts antics to be as enjoyable as other people do.
A bit of a shame. Johansen was a super talented player. He had that early 33 goal 63 point season with Columbus and was one of my favourite players. Good skater , great with the puck and at the time a goal scorer. Since then he's only scored more than 20 goals (26 both times) twice. He has put up a lot of 50-60 point seasons where he has been more of a playmaker and where he scored 14 or 15 goals in a good year. Age and injury seemed to be catching up with him even while having a couple of those good seasons with Nashville , along with one of the 26 goal seasons he also had two less than a half point a game seasons and they finally managed to move his salary to Colorado who gave him one more chance to recapture what had been a pretty good set of skills. That experiment failed early as he got 13 goals and 23 points in 63 games. They moved on and tried Casey Mittelstadt. Philadelphia took on that contract, moved Sean Walker who apparently they were afraid they couldn't resign? and got a first round pick while taking on the salary of a player who pretty obviously can't contribute anymore. He was the second line center on the best offensive team in the league and he barely scored a third of a point a game. Walker signed for five years at $3.6 million. He was very signable. Philadelphia took on the last year of this contract of this player whose career was obviously over to get the first round pick. Now they want to have their cake and eat it too by weaseling out of their obligation to pay this guy. They don't pay him they should have to give the pick back. The transaction was for them to take on that responsibility for Colorado. That's why they got Colorado's first round pick in 2025. The whole LTIR landscape and using your cap space to take on other teams mistakes is sordid enough without the team weaponizing their cap space then trying to invalidate injured players contracts. I don't think Philly wins this one. .
The narrative on Walker from the jump was that he "exceeded expectations" and Philly wanted to sell high. The Flyers only got walker as a throw in for moving Ivan Provorov for picks, and helping the Kings dump the Cal Peterson contract. The Kings were flush with D-man and they had to move contracts to make space, so it was a fait accompli, that Walker, was odd man out, having worked his way back from a surgically repaired knee that kept him out over an entire season. At the time, 99% of the flyers fan base, never heard of Sean Walker and thought they were just getting an AHL level player in return for getting rid of Provy and adding to their draft capital. Having watched the Kings for a lot of years, I tried to tell people that Walker could end up being a huge surprise, as only a few years ago, Walker was playing 1st pair with Doughty before he blew out his knee, and damn if I wasn't right. Walker was literally the Flyer's best D-man pretty much all year, and the glue guy that made the team go. When they traded him, the team went right down the tubes as I expected them to. They did have a bit of bad luck in that they had also lost Jamie Drysdale for the season with yet another shoulder injury, so they could ill afford to trade Walker and still try to make the playoffs and actually compete, but it was pretty clear, that they never seriously considered this, always planned to trade Walker, never even considered trying to either keep him or re-sign him. The forced trade for Drysdale, after the debacle with Cutter Gauthier meant that they had to take on an extra D even though that wasn't part of the original plan.
@@gizmoitus Yeah I liked Walker in LA, but he did exceed my expectations in Philly. I guess for his own good I hope he does well in Carolina. They were running a tight little defensive ship in Carolina. I like to think that all the players aren't just interchangeable cogs which is how Carolina has started treating personnel. I don't expect them to lead the league again giving up the fewest shots against but it will be an interesting experiment. Personnel vs system, which trumps what when it comes to defensive play?
@@shellysmith1037 True he is totally done and I was shocked when Colorado took a chance on him. So when Philly got him they knew he was done. They just took on the salary. It seems disingenuous and I do prefer the word weasely to try to get out of paying him. Shea Webber isn't playing again. Carey price isn't playing again. The time not to pay them is before you give them the big long term contracts.
Went to Colorado to sit on the 2nd line. Ended up on the 4th line only a few months into the season. There were also rumblings that he just wasn't doing his part.
I really don't get the controversy. He has an injury and for a cup contender he is willing to risk further injuring himself even though he shouldn't play, but for a team that sucks he isn't willing to risk that.
i think a big part of this is the fact that the flyers wanted a way to stay under the cap without using LTIR. so even if this gets settled in arbitration and the Flyers still have a cap hit for johansen, it’ll almost certainly be low enough to keep them cap compliant. it’s a good business move by briere for a player that was never a part of the organization’s plans as long as they have a decent argument against johansen.
As a Nashville fan. I hate to see Joey in some not so GREAT news. But on the other hand, after this offseason. And the fact that if it happens, we get 4 mil in cap space. That could be HUGE! So I’m excited to see what happens
I remember when the Flyers acquired Keith Jones, he could skate but he was so banged up that he claimed he could not run at all. If they had him jog on a treadmill his career would have been over.
As a Flyers fan, I thought they got him to acquire the pick, then bury him in the minors. However I cant believe he pulled the injury card. Good Riddance
So Material Breach is when one of the two parties who entered into the contract fails to perform their contractual obligations in a way that assures the other party won't get it's fair value. Which means either Johansen was given some kind of treatment he elected to not follow or he showed up radically out of shape and the team has no belief he can get into shape to play.
Avs fan. I liked picking up RyJo as a low risk high reward player but he really played borderline effortlessly at times last season. The team substantially improved once he got traded. That said, his poor play could've been due to injury, right? I'm not sure what the protocol of disclosing injuries are but he must be in breach if Avs didn't know about it, traded him, and suddenly with no chance of playoffs, he admits to being injured. TBH, I'd do the same (legally, above board).
Johansen has been a solid playmaker and faceoff man in his career, but going to Colorado was a mistake; he wasn’t going to be much more than an experienced bottom-six depth player, there. Sounds like the Flyers didn’t do their due diligence in acquiring him. No clue why they got him; five capable Centers who all played over 71 games last year, and Johansen is older than all of them, plus faceoffs weren’t a big issue (19th)
It was never about RJ. They wanted the 1st round pick and they got it. They now have 3 1st round picks in '25 (12, 24, 31). The 24 is what they got from the Avs.
LTIR isn’t a perfect solution. You can use it to get under the cap but you won’t be banking cap space that you can use for future cap compliance on bonuses or other overages (it’s complicated; Charlie O’Conner breaks it down nicely on the PHLY podcast earlier this summer). Flyers are trying to get under the cap without tapping into LTIR for yet another player here. You also can’t demote or buyout an “injured” player. RJ doesn’t have a no movement clause and was gonna get sent down to the AHL after the Walker trade. Something the Flyers were well with their rights to do under the current CBA. But suddenly RJ decided he was so injured he couldn’t play in the Flyers organization after 63 games with the AVs. That’s suspicious and at worst; violates the spirit of the CBA. Termination or a settlement will essentially be a buyout without the cap hit. This is a smart move by the Flyers even if you don’t like the optics. I’m usually all for workers rights but I think the Flyers should win this or at least come out on the other side with a settlement that doesn’t penalize them at all (no cap hit and won’t give up that 1st round draft pick; which was the ACTUAL asset the Flyers were gunning for in the Sean Walker trade)
Probably will be a settlement, not unlike the way the Kings ultimately settled with Mike Richards. RJ will get most of his money. The Flyers will get some cap relief and won't have the contract anymore. This is why Nashville isn't planning to do anything with the money. Barry Trots is way too smart for that, smells the coffee and knows that this is far from a slam dunk.
Philly owes us for the Weber offer sheet...so yes...I am hoping so here in Nashville. Besides...that contract was egregious at the time, especially in hindsight. Love Joey, but he wasn't the same after that Conference Final in 2017.
Players that make the league with pure skill but no drive just want that money and decline once they get it. Players who make the league with pure dedication and the drive to succeed, along with skill, they are the ones that don’t decline once they get paid. The canucks are victims of this recently
Jack Eichel story as an example of teams trying to force a player to go down a surgical path the player isn't on board with. Teams frequently do not have the interests of the player in mind. When it is convenient for them, many a team has sat on a player, or even ushered them into retirement. Joffrey Lupul in Toronto is a case study on this. It was pretty much an open secret that Lupul was ready to play, but the leafs wanted to keep him on indefinite LTIR, and essentially paid him to go retire. My guess is that, like many players RJ has a degenerative injury. It is something that he was playing through, but that was clearly limiting his effectiveness, leading to a fairly steady slide in production. If it's a hip injury as I've seen rumored, then that type of injury has ended the career of many an Athlete (Bo Jackson, for example) and very few players can come back from a significant degenerative hip injury and make it back to prior levels. Patrick Kane is a question mark, who has so far beat the odds, but it remains to be seen for how long. He had hip resurfacing surgery from probably the world's foremost surgeon for that. Other hockey players who had the same surgery have had limited to no success in returning to the game. Amongst that group are Ed Jovanaski, Carl Hagelin, Ryan Kessler, and most recently Nick Backstrom. The problem with hip injuries is that they can start as something that seems to just be deep bruising, that many players get from getting knocked into the boards, and then it doesn't respond well, and never gets better. Look at the list I posted-- they all retired in their early 30's. It is entirely possible that RJ is in the evaluation process, may have found out that things are bad, and the Flyers just don't want to be left holding the bag once again, on a player that they got in trade, who will never play again, especially considering this is the exact scenario they experienced with Ryan Ellis.
@@BrotherAlpha I have a feeling the injury isnt fake, but it isnt so bad he couldnt play if he wanted to. So he is using it and postponing treatment to try and eat up as much of the contract time as possible.
I wouldn’t want to play for Philly either. Their organization is an absolute dumpster fire, all the hype around one player who has yet to play a single NHL game yet is comical. “Oh he’s the next Ovechkin.” Y’all Flyers fans said that Samuel Morin was gonna be the “next Chris Pronger” how did that turn out? Torrey Krug, Ryan Johansson, Cutter Gauiter, none of those guys wanted to come to Philly, and honestly I can’t blame them. Toxic coach, dumpster fire of an organization, no passion or heart on the ice they are a mess. Before you throw me shade in the comments just note that I’m a Flyers fan as well.
The org is much better under Briere and Jones, with Comcast management that basically is letting them run the show, but they aren't perfect and have had some missteps. I am not a Torts fan, and I really don't like a lot of the things he's done the last two years, but it's also not his fault that the Flyers plan to build around Michkov and some of their other younger players and the players they have in the pipeline. As a fan, I am sure I don't have to remind you, that this team has had a string of bad luck that is close to biblical. Even before Morin we had players like Eric Wellwood who had to retire after severing his Achilles. We got JVR instead of Patrick Kane (bullshit), Nolan Patrick has to retire due to concussion and migraines just as he was ascending, Carter Hart fiasco, Ryan Ellis contract, Cutter Gauthier, then we sign Fedotov and Russia puts him in prison, and now without Carter Hart, we have another top goalie prospect who has decides after a month in the AHL he wants out of his contract, so he can go back and play in Russia. We also are emerging from an absolutely abysmal period of terrible GM moves and contracts literally everyone knew except for our GM and the people who hired him, were terrible. Briere did not hire Torts, so he's had to navigate this all as a first time GM who is still pretty green. Somehow with all this insanity, the team nearly made the playoffs, and of course we got Michkov as much as two years earlier than we expected to get him. Overall, I'd give Briere (and Jones) a B+ for what they've done so far, having been dealt with some shitty cards. The only thing that really concerned me, is that they went off the board for multiple draft choices. That could really age poorly, as they made a huge bet with those picks, and if other players they didn't take end up being studs, there could be some pitchforks getting passed around the streets of south philly. Briere is still on the list of a lot of Flyer's fans all time favorite Flyers, so he will get a lot more rope than someone else might, but if Torts manages to mess up Michkov's development, I can easily see Briere firing him.
Why not Lowkey my first time ever tried saying first and I’m one for one because I was actually first cause you go and you put the newest in and I’ll show you the oldest and I was oldest comment
Cannot keep up with these cap rules. Carey Price is still being paid, maybe Louongo also. Players with his # of games often pack serious chronic injuries. Don't know his personal history but seems he is used up before his contract and now it is a hot potato. Philly is trying to sneak one over IMO. Pay the man.
Players play through injuries all the time. There certainly is a difference between playing injured for a team attempting to make the playoffs and playing in the AHL, and the only reason why you’re assigned to the AHL is due to the NHL coach not liking you when you played for him in another organization. There’s a reason why players elect for surgery during the season if they are on a bottom feeder team, and those on playoff contenders wait for the offseason. I do hope he win his grievance. NHL clubs need to stop treating players this way.
Treating players like what? Its pretty simple. He got traded to the flyers, didnt like it, didnt want to play in the NHL for them and with Torts, then when he said hes getting sent down to the AHL for conditioning he disclosed this "injury" and isnt sure he can paly hockey any more. I think its fair that a player you traded for, if hes refusing to play for your NHL club, possibly fakes an injury to avoid being put down in the AHL is in brach of both the spirit of the contract, as well as the actual material of the contract. NHL organizations dont use that type of wording unless they are sure they are going to win the grivence. He should accept hes been caught doing w/e it is hes in breach of and accept the consequences.
Every hockey player in their 30s is injured some way or another. That's the price you pay being a professional hockey player. He played in every game for Colorado last and when he was traded to Philly and was going to be sent down, he claimed to couldn't play through the injury anymore. What a shitty precedent to set going forward if whenever a player is going to be sent down to the minors they claim a injury so they can't be moved.
@@brokenarrow726 Good lord man, he was never going to play for the Flyers. They took him because Colorado insisted on it as part of the deal, so they could get the 1st round pick for Walker they always planned to get. They immediately assigned him to the AHL.
@@gizmoitus They actually didnt. They expected him to play in 2023-2024, but couldnt due to this random injury. You dont trade a promising prospect and a 1st for player that isnt going to play for your oganization and pay him $4M (Preds are paying the other $4M) Are you dense?
@@brokenarrow726 Am I dense? What are you even talking about? The Flyers didn't trade any prospect. They traded Sean walker and 5th round pick to get Colorado's 2025 1st. They had 4 healthy centers at the time, and no intenion on bringing in RJ, who Colorado was trying to get rid of. They had no reason to take on another Center which is why they immediately tried to send RJ to the AHL.
Nah he just doesn't want to play IN Philadelphia. He watched youtube videos of Kensington and is like "oh hell no" 🤣. But watch him sign with Edmonton for like 2 million in a few days.
The Flyers waived Johansen immediately after the trade. They didn’t want him in the locker room for the same reason Colorado didn’t. Johansen was just a cap dump for the sake of getting a larger return in the Walker trade. He wasn’t “injured” until he cleared waivers and it was clear that he was about to get sent to Allentown.
he was sent to the phantoms in lehigh... He was never playing for the Flyers, and the only reason Ryan found himself in the organization was because he's a cap dump.
Yeah I also see that 1st round pick they got from Colorado. The Yankees and Mets in baseball try to do this all tbe time (Jacoby Elllbury, Yoenis Cespedes). Guaranteed contract but it's alot of money and the guy isn't living up to it so we'll just void the remaining years. I guess because they are big east coast cities with lots of lawyers, they think they can get away with Bush League moves. Sending him to the AHL is punishment.
my fav preds player. loved his douche personality against kesler in 2017 playoffs. he was a great center in that playoffs until he got blood clot in his leg or something liek that.
Yeah if I'm injured and have a chance at a title I will go through. Trade me to a team that doesn't have a shot then yeah I'm shelving it and trying again next year.
That's because the Flyers organization demands that players give 100% effort, 100% of the time... No pretty figure skaters allowed... Even their mascot is Gritty... Ed Snider would be proud 🤟
Looking at his body language after scoring goals, he just looks bored. There’s not one spark of real excitement from him. I think that even the thrill of making obscene amounts of money has left him from the looks of it.
