Fall of Elturel: www.dmsguild.com/product/2946... Eventyr Games DIA guide + Avernus-as-a-sandbox: www.dmsguild.com/product/2950... Amazing DIA maps: / pogs_props Alexandrian Remix: thealexandrian.net/wordpress/...
Our DM just refused to include the elephant and instead it was one of the player characters who turned out to be Zariel's former buddy who lost her powers and memory, it made the entire story so much cooler and personal.
I will never agree that lost memory anything is anywhere near fun. For any reason. “Hey dm, my character is stupid can u put all the thoughts in my head for me?” Or “hey npc, you know nothing? But might remember at the moment when it matters most and take all the thunder away from the party mid intense battle or whenever its convenient? O, ill just snack and watch while being an irrelevant bystander to the story your telling in front of us… naaaaaw you can roll for me too! (Gets up… walks out.)
Spoilers for some big things in the module: My DM did a similar thing. I chose to be a reincarnated Planetar Aasimar Cleric. After some time, it was revealed that I was called Nascius and that I was in a relationship with Zariel. It was all really great and helped motivate me to redeem her. And of course, I had a major mind blow moment after reading the module at the end of the campaign and learning there was a Planetar in the Companion that had the name my DM had called my character.
How can anybody not read the whole thing before running it...? I read the whole thing out of mild curiosity before ever even playing D&D, and figured that would only scratch the very tip of the prep iceberg for anybody who actually runs campaigns...
Our DM did a lot of changing and homebrewing. Two of our characters came from or from around Elturel. We actually started the campaign QUITE a bit before Elturel got dragged to hell, and we spent a few days there, so when the city vanished it was very impactful. Very epic campaign, and it yielded my favorite PC which I've played so far.
I love Descent into Avernus. Other than changing the intro, I haven't had to make any other changes. My party is having a great time and I'm enjoying all the options.
We're about 2 years in... 76 sessions... All that was said in the video is true. DiA is an absolute mess. Half the extra modules didn't exist when we first started, so I had to revamp a ton of things. Fortunately, the sandbox portion was finished by the time we exited hellturel. From there, I used it as my own experience to make them feel the dangers of hell. I feel like the book's slight jaunt from location to location leaves out so much of what AVERNUS is. The random encounters should be much more involved to show that IT IS HELL. Ugh, I could go on for ages. Good video, there's so much more to cover.
76 sessions? Thats incredible. The way my group is going we’ll be done by around session 40! Obviously i’ve tweaked it in many ways and our groups are very different (as all are) but it’s still cool to see how others experience it IMO.
Hey man. Really great video, and it is much appreciated. I’ve actually viewed this video among others to gather insight and get myself in the mood for the campaign a couple times. My group is about to start their 19th session, and I’ve just come back to see this video once again. Very cool!
Great video! I love the suggestions you did and it s awesome to see how you changed the campaign to fit your players. Love the Flashback/ time loop idea
Just skipped Baldur's Gate lol. Characters started at lvl4, investigated and defeated some cultists and as they made their victorious way into the city, they got dragged into Avernus with it. I feel going all the way to Baldur's Gate while Elturel marinates in hell takes away a lot of the urgency of the campaign.
I've had the same issue with Dragon Heist. The best part of the game is when you get a tavern and assuming you have money you can upgrade it and deal with the guilds. My players didn't have any money because at that point you only did a single mission and your payment was the tavern. I ended up doing a lot of my own writing to make the adventure work and more exciting. I picked the summer villain and since their background is that they are benefactors and loaners they were happy to see a group of people want to improve the neighborhood. So of course the BBEG are the ones who helped you. The players didn't see it coming. The whole adventure happens in a huge city with a lot of law enforcement that's quick to remind your players they should just do nothing. The cops actually do the investigation for you if you let them. There's a chase at some point that's really bad. 5th edition is not a good system for this type of game.
I just came across the video a year later and I really appreciate the truthful review plus the comments as you and the community saved me serious money. Very helpful; thanks.
I think I love altering the campaign way more than following it even if it was good. I say that but it's likely not true I wouldn't want to rob us of a well written campaign. I will share one that was so rewarding for everyone. I gave Amric an immunity to fire activated device. He also kept two full barrels of burning oil on either side of him with a barbed devil behind each. His escape plan was dumping the barrels and catching them on fire. I created a really snappy fire mechanic that had heat damage, smoke incapacitating and such. On my sons first turn he cast erupting earth and used an item that allowed him to change the element of his spell once a day. He changed the earth into ice. Even though I wanted to use the fire system, what he did was so impressive it was more fun for everyone to see the bad guy get so thoroughly outsmarted.
I had my characters start at lv4 in avernus waking up on the shores of the river Styx with no memory. They had their memories restored by maggie where they remembered why they were there and what they had to do
You made some fantastic points in this video. Out of the book its nowhere near ready made. As a sourcebook for the DM to interweave the players and trace their own path. Fall of Elturel was a fantastic re-start of a module, and your take on Baldurs Gate, Hellturel and Avernus fits so much better.
I am currently running this campaign. To make the PCs care about the scenario, 2 are from Balder's Gate (one a member of the Flaming Fist, another a bard from the upper city), 1 a druid from the nearby Cloakwood, and also made Reya a PC (I've had a a few players start and stay with the campaign, a few left early, and a few came in later--hence Reya as a PC). Another hook is that one of the PCs unaffiliated with BG or Elturel is a Paladin of Bahamut, so that has worked nicely to hook him to the Tiamat cultists and then Tiamat and her minions in Avernus. They are currently level 9 and searching a wrecked flying fortress and the players seem to all be aving a good time.
You played it a year that is great I was in a group it was rush going through it as fast as possible missing the whole rollplay part and that I hate for that is where the game is going about I would think.
I just finished reading this one cover to cover. I'm going to put in some interesting self-made stuff about mephistopheles. I'm hoping one of my players needs to make a deal at some point
As you describe, the most cinematic scene happening offscreen is a let down, so I came up with a solution alongside a friend of mine. Run chapter 1 in Elturel. The cult is there seeking the sealed artifacts, Thavius is not in the manor, and as the party learns of the contract and they go confront him, the city is dragged into Avernus. Reya as an initiate cannot be recognized yet by cultists so she acts as the connection to authorities. Welcome to chapter 2: now the initial response to the Descent, as PCs now fight to save NPCs they have spent time with. Have Elturel be a bit more of a safehaven as the pcs were there to help, and a place they can return.
I’m running it now. Skipped Baldur’s Gate and had them start in Elturel, witnessing the descent. In retrospect, it might work even better to start in Baldur’s Gate but let BG get dragged into hell instead. Would be easy to tie in all the cultists, Thavius, etc.
That's a great idea; BG getting sent to Avernus would add actual stakes to early level stuff. Everything Elturel could be added as a BG political faction that supports the players early-on
I did not run candlekeep, my players were 5 clerics...yeah... I somehow managed to gaslighting them into believing than whoever is trapped into the shield is actually an angel, they ended up selling their souls to it for a safe passage into Avernus
I`m running this right now! And following the path of Avernus as a sandbox. My players will start chapter 3 tomorrow and i am really exited. I loved the solution for the location for the bleeding citadel but made me wonder. If the entrance is through that portal, and the concept is an open world, the characters can hear a rumor about that ("well there is this portal right there bro check it out"). And if we use some kinda guardian, like a big dragon or fiend do protect the entrance i think it would be more obvious. So pls make the video about your game, Im curios to know how u guys played this part. Already subscribed for more! Sorry for my english, not my first language
The way I ran it, the bleeding citadel was hidden behind the portal, which could be accessed through the arch of ulluch (i don't remember the name exactly but something like that). Because of the shifting nature of avernus, the arch is never in the same place. I do have to admit I soon stopped randomizing the locations (which I did by having players roll a d20 to see if the place the want to go to is still there) because it got tedious and I didn't want the game to be needlessly long. I used the framework in eventyr's game guide where they have to get a vial of super-blood in exchange for info on the citadel. Eventually this way they learn of the location of the arch. I had an androsphninx guard the arc and ask a riddle (don't remember what it was, I Googled d&d riddles) but they had Asmodeous helping them at this point so it wasn't a huge struggle.
I've got my own Infernal campaign that I'm revamping from AD&D 1e to Castles & Crusades. Just going to grab this to use the maps and setting info. I find the concept of the Blood War utterly lame, but in my campaign it's an apocalyptic war so the Celestials will be in Avernus, hoping to distract the devils from the party, who is on their own mission. But my campaign starts at around 8th level so by the time they get to Avernus, they'll like be around 15th level or higher.
BG is a great place and contrasts how truly awful hell is even compared to murder town. Skip half of BG start at level 3 at Low Lantern with a dead three attack similar to how Dragon Heist starts and sow the seeds of Reya asking for help, Zodge drafting them after seeing them defend themselves. The Vanthampurs are too great villians to miss, and when killed, you can have them show up as devils in the Elturel arc. The dead 3 dungeon is just un inspired compared to the Villa and one dungeon crawl is enough, the only thing it adds is meeting a wounded Mortlock V which is better done at Low Lantern or in the streets
Are there any companies or authors which ARE making ready made adventures that a DM could just pick up and run without needing to fix a bunch of narrative weak points?
Avernus as a sandbox? But it's already a sandbox. The book straight up encourages the GM to avoid just railroading either path and instead recommends allowing your players to explore and uncover the paths at their own pace. It's even filled with fun unique locations which are completely optional while further detailing other potential paths such as allying with Tiamat. I'm pretty sure it even suggested creating unique locations all of your own making. I mean I literally just finished reading the book and it seems like a lot of the problems people are complaining about are simply caused by not paying attention to what was written. Also these books are ALWAYS intended to be a framework for the GM to flesh out. No book can ever reasonably cover every possible contingency. I do agree that delaying the inciting incident is a solid improvement. But that's as simple as having the players uncovering the plan before Elturel's Fall and then having them rush to the city. Only to arrive mere moments before the inevitable. Probably best to reserve Candlekeep for the players if they manage to escape the city in time so they can still get to Avernus. Other than that it's an amazing adventure filled with possibilities depending on the player's choices and the GM's predilection.
We started and I jumped right the to scab and gave my players a giant war machine... they seem to be pretty happy exploring Hell so far. They were already in Hell to begin with for other reasons not DiA... so they will most like just try to rride the sunken city back into the mortal plane... or I guess they have to spend an eternity in Hell... we will see.
I solved the problem of Elturel by making the dark secret of the party as them helping Baphomet in the kidnapping of Ulder, and so making them see what happens to the city and the aftermath in Baldur's Gate
The Alexandrian Remix. It's a series of articles. I don't have the link handy but just Google avernus Alexandrian remix and you'll see it. It's really impressive work
I completely agree with everything you said, it's also the reason I'm NEVER buying a WotC adventure book again. They are all pretty terrible and require to much tinkering. It's hilarious how a Paizo adventure for Pathfinder 1/2 can be run easier (even in 5e) than a bloody adventure made for 5e.
I’m really disappointed with WotC. You are right, there are a lot of great concepts but they are sewn together like a blind person with a dull needle. I used the Fall of Elturel to begin the game. The ending was awesome for the players, a whole city drawn into Avernus before their eyes. I also used notes from Alexandrian Remix to fix a lot of the game. Of course adding some of my own to match the play style of the group. I’m hoping you can do a video about the Avernus part of your game. I love the idea of one of the players staying to succeed Zariel. Consider that stolen ;) -Tim
I changed so much of this it wasn't funny. Zariel wanted to use the people of Elturel for her army, yet devils are running around killing people. I had them protecting the rest of the town from the demonic portal.
Zariel wants to rebirth their souls as Lemures and then promote them to higher ranked devils for the blood war. Their physical bodies do still need to be destroyed first. Their souls already belong to her thanks to the Creed Resolute.
I had a min/maxed character so I pretty much soloed Zariel (which I was a bit hated for at a time) and we essentially fought against Zariel, Krull (warlock tortle), Arkhan(a guy with a hand of Vecna) and Adult White Dragon at the same time which was epic as fuck. Also, consider a fact that every single one of us had our own agendas in this campaign and we essentially fought each other as well. Damn, these are good memories.
I was going to comment on the changes you made to the module for your group- then you said the quiet part out loud. You like other systems because you’re there to tell a story, not play a game (5e). More people need to branch out like that. D&D isn’t the only game in town, Avernus won’t fit every group.
