How To Make LOTS of Money With Your Tractor 

Under promise. Over deliver.

I've found it's best to have a written contract, stating the scope of work to be done and the price. If the customer wants work done outside the original scope, write a change order stating the additional work to be done and the customer cost. If you decide that you don't need to charge for the additional work, write a "no-cost" change order, stating the additional work to be done and that the original price stands. Get the customer's signature on the contract and any change orders. Having things in writing slows problems when it comes time to get paid for your work.

I'm a CPA who's primary experience has been with several general contractors. I can tell that without a doubt, the biggest thing they struggle with is estimating. So many variable and often low margins means it's really easy to mess up and get yourself underwater.

Very helpful tips. I bid professionally for my own work all the time, but when we get specs, the customer assumes accuracy of specs ;) I assume you remember this from your software days - and NOT fondly - LOL ;)

Your sound explanation makes great sense, and follows the “Golden Rule” when dealing with folks. “Under promise and over deliver” is not only a satisfying experience for the both parties, it builds trust, promotes future business, and extends positive word-of-mouth advertising. Very well done Tim. (Nice try Katriel :-) Blessings.

I do 50-70 tilling only jobs per year and have never quoted an hourly rate to the customer. You have provided excellent reasons for not doing so. The hourly rate does not answer the basic customer question of “how much will it cost?” -Larry in Salem, OR

1000 a day plus fuel . Any project works every time then just add days as customer adds more to the project . Fill up truck transfer and Machines send pic to customer of fuel receipt On way to job .

I did consulting work for many years. Estimating and communicating with the customer was problematic. I hated “time and materials (cost plus) contracts. These contracts demonstrate that the customer really doesn’t know what they want. In such cases, I would formulate a “statement of work” verbal for small jobs and formal for big jobs. The customer agrees and work begins and we avoid all the insufferable meetings while the customer, or agent, stews about the project content. A clear understanding of work scope is key to customer relations.

I agree that it’s better to bid the entire job rather than giving an hourly rate. Look forward to future videos on the topic

Tim, this should be required watching for contracting 101. The concepts and methods you are describing apply to almost any type of work that people are willing to pay for. I use roughly the same principals in repairing small gas equipment, E.g. lawnmowers, snow blowers, string trimmers, etc. It has worked for me for 40+ years.

I've found this to be the case with most anything, not just tractor work. Sometimes you eat a little bit of time, but you also don't have mad customers because of what they see as overcharging, and if you do a good job quickly, you don't have a mad customer who feels cheated if you don't charge them less. You just have to be very clear when the inevitable "scope creep" happens, that "I can do that, but that wasn't in my original quote and it'll cost extra."

There should almost never be a risk if bid correctly. EXCLUSIONS are a must in a cost figure. Never give a customer a cost on the spot. Rookie mistake. Equipment/tractor does not make an operator. Bad operator = bigger customer cost, usually low profit and bad customer relations.

As a customer in the past not knowing how long the job would take but having full confidence in the person operating the machine I haven’t had issues paying by the hour and a separate trip charge. I felt this gave us both a way out and was fair to the person doing the work.

as a customer, i completely agree, I can’t stand it when they quote by the hour. I don’t feel like babysitting adults to make sure they are actually doing the job and not hosing me on the hours sitting under tree watching YT videos. If it’s still the only option and I’m not available to be around, they’d better come in the quoted hours or they will never get called back for the next job and never getting any referrals, for sure. been there, done that.

Absolute wisdom! I only purchased my gently used 2015 1025R about a week ago. I'd always wanted a small John Deere all the way back to the 455. Recently, I had a shoulder injury that took away my ability to ride my motorcycle safely so I sold it and bought the tractor as my replacement "toy". It's my first very first tractor and me being me, I've sought out all the information and tips I can get my hands on to help my new hobby. I've watched countless TTwT videos and couldn't be happier with your content. It never even occurred to me that I could make money with it working for others. But after watching you, I might give it a shot. Thank you for your informative and very amusing videos!

Thanks for the tips. Just yesterday I was asked how much this mowing job would cost. I'm enjoying making money with my tractors.

Good Video Tim. I had a lawyer years ago that told me that " If It wasn't wrote down , It' didn't happen ".. for a contract. From that day on. I write everything down and go over it with the customer before starting projects . It save a lot of Headaches

I never quote an hourly rate!! I always give a project cost. I always give a written scope of work which includes what I expect. Anything outside of this plan, may be extra.

I dumped a load of sand for a customer over 12 years ago. I had to split the load up and made 5 piles all over the back yard so they didn't have to bring the front end loader on the low boy. I guess when time came for payment and the tractor guy to spread it they didn't like the price of that. They still have 5 piles of sand sitting in their backyard! It's growing weeds and probably trees by now LOL. It wasn't easy dumping it most of it was off camber and had to reposition alot to not be leaning my truck, I wouldn't doubt if my tire tracks are still there.

This makes sense ‼️ I’ve been quoting job at $60 per hour and the customer and I are not always happy afterwards. Thanks for the information!👌🏻

Great advice!!! Customers also don’t understand how much maintenance will it cost to tractor or skid loader!!! I knew nothing as well till I bought my tractor!

Great explanation. I almost never quote by the hour. On top of what you said, the customer may feel like they have to micromanage your time if they are paying you by the hour and an hourly rate leaves room for people to doubt that you're using the time efficiently. Quoting a lump sum eliminates that doubt.

Having worked in he diesel repair field...This is absolutely the way to go about things. The customer will hear the lowest number you say. Quote by the job, not the hour. This isn't like working at Wal-Mart. Great video Tim

Who cleans and polishes the equipment? That John Deere behind you is spotless and sparkling. Good job Tim and Christi .

Very helpful, thanks Tim

Good video. I'm enjoying the Q&A with the insurance agent and gaining knowledge on what I should be asking my agent.

1. Check your state for requirements to collect sales tax for mowing, landscaping, snow plowing. Last time I checked Minnesota doesn’t have a sales tax for snow plowing but does for lawn mowing. Operating without a sales tax permit can get you in big trouble and could possibly get you into losing all of your business equipment. 2. Potential customers are going to judge you from the second they see your truck, trailer, tractor, you etc. If you pull up in a lifted F350 with giant wheels they are going to think it’s going to be very expensive to hire this guy. If you pull up in a 30 year old Chevy S-10 with rust, duct tape and mismatched body panels they might be too embarrassed to even hire you and they might be wondering what rock this hick came out from under.

Yeah I got a quote from Aarons Hogan Walker for a tractor repair of $3600 now they want almost 6000 and they also tell me oh we can’t get the Parts COVID-19 they had the tractor a month Not a happy camper here

Tim, do you charge a minimum? Loading/unloading and destination has to be factored. How do you handle those "hidden" charges?

Spoken like a true ex-Software Engineer, under-promise and over-deliver wins every time !

Just starting out, I was considering quoting an hourly rate "Not To Exceed (NTE)" which put the risk on me if it took longer or shorter than I'd expected but you have me rethinking that strategy. Thanks!

When I quote a job, I double my price. They either take it or not, it's not my primary source of income so why work with margins. There is less and less people willing to do manual labor these days. So u want it done your going to pay a premium. Just ordered a new deere 35g excavator thanks to lazy people

You have to show confidence in your estimating while talking to the customer that goes a long way, and yes stick with the estimate given. If the project turns less profit it will be a lesson learned

All good advice. Keep in mind, your backlog of work, the next 3 days weather, and your travel time and expense. Use your ears, if there is some horror story the potential client feels the need to tell you what a victim he is, figure your time for reestablishing his faith in contractors. Figure the job, then double it, better to walk away than compete with an experienced payer with penalties. I spent 45 years bidding for work, You will sometimes make some, break even, and lose some. When all said and done, make a living, and be able to afford to upgrade every 3000 hours and pay for repairs. Keep your equipment clean and trucks with good tires.

Great job Tim! Looking forward to more videos along this subject line😀

How about 3+ hours to load and unload Grease

Anytime you deal with money, put it in writing. Always have a contract.

When I first got my tractor I had visions of using it to make extra money. I soon figured out people around here are way to cheap to make it worth my while.

I do this for a living and I have done this work hourly for years. I can walk up to a job and I can figure how much time I am gonna have in it pretty quick. Here everyone prices by the hour so they normally have already had a couple other quotes. I just say I get $100 hr for my dozer and $80 hr for the tractor and it will take me x hours. Some of my folks watch me the entire time doing the work because they are fascinated but also they are seeing how much work is done per hour...now remember they already had someone else tell them they could do it for $x per hour so they look at your time and the other quotes they got and it tells them if they were gonna get screwed. In your video you eloquently “screwed” someone out of $200. Here you wouldn’t ever get a call back like that...

I want to start a small property maintenance business I’m 14 and love working with my hands and heavy equipment I’d like a buy a tractor I’ve found a little ford 1220 it’s a 14 PTO hp tractor it’s little it’s got a mower deck and loader and it’s only got 638 hours it looks to be In great condition no dents no scratches the hours are some what low etc they’re asking $7500 is it worth that much??? Should I try to talk them down? If so how much should I try to get them down to 6500? 5500? What’s responsible? And can I run a tiller with that machine? It’s only 1500 lbs and it’s a hydro how should I quote tilling?

Hello Tim, When I first got my skid steer loader my neighbor wanted too hire me to clean out some old stumps in a fence row. We never talked about price or how long it would take to finish the job. When I was done with the job I printed up an invoice. It had my hourly rate and how many hours of running time for the loader. He would sometimes come too talk to me a few times a day. I added up the time we talked, if it added up to two hours I noted that he was not being charged for any down time. The only time I changed for down time is if it was a machine break down. Love the video's keep up the good work and god bless and stay safe.

Spot on Tim, basic Sales. What so FEW people in small business just don't get is that price for MOST people is NOT the most important thing. They think it is, customer don't. They want someone they can trust, someone that they believe will do a quality Job and most importantly, someone they LIKE! If they are dead set price Conscious, YOU don't want them as a customer because they will want their pound of flesh, Bitch about every single detail and then probably try to short pay you anyway. First thing I learnt even before I got into my own business was you DO NOT want every customer that comes along. Some the best thing you can do with is run as fast as you can from. Everyone in my industry had price lists for certain packages. First thing I stopped. When people rang me for a Price I said sure, let me find out the details of what you want so I can give you an accurate estimate. Might talk to them for 20 Min. building rapport and showing I was interested. I'd ask about details they never even thought of that showed them I knew my stuff because no one else ever spoke to them long enough to find out or ask. Others in my game said I was talking to them way too long. My booking rate was around 74% of people I spoke to. People that said I was talking to them too long were lucky to get a 1/4 of that. I asked the customer what they wanted, not what I wanted to give them. When I gave them a price, they couldn't run off and compare it to someone else hourly rate or Package because the estimate they got was exactly what they wanted. Plus, I was the guy that really seemed interested in helping them and giving them what they wanted, not just taking their money. SO many people when we got together would tell me, they were just there to pay the money. They had already made the purchasing decision on the phone when they spoke to me and that was it. I REGULARLY over quoted and then under charged. You know what sort of customer satisfaction that Builds? You know how many paid me the Full price AND tips because they thought I deserved the full quote amount? You have any idea how many referrals I got? I was THE guy for entire extended families. They told me the job, was I available , Booked and then asked how much? Best thing anyone can do going into business of their own is learn sales and marketing as well as advertising. Plenty of info on the net, plenty of basic seminars. Best investment of time and money a person going into their own business can make.

Happy customers are your best advertisement.

I’d be the one hiring someone and I really appreciate your explanation of how to set your pricing. If someone tried to give me an hourly rate, I’ll listen closely and ask for a realistic job cost, plus what problems might come up and possible cost. Thanks!!

Hi Tim, this is very helpful video for me. I have one question about your suggested attachments for 1025R if we want to start making some money with this tractor. I have a new 1025R with backhoe, front loader and self attached lawn mower. We will buy this week grabber, still not sure what model. Now it would be perfect to know which other attachments you are suggesting to have for start up compact tractor business. And which models and producers. Consider that we don't have unlimited budget. Also what would be the best way to start promoting yourself when you don't have yet recommendations from other customers. Thanks buddy

I very rarely quote by the hour.You can't load equipment,drive to a job,come home and unload for short/small hourly jobs.I do lots of half day small excavating jobs that none of the bigger guys can or will touch,and everything is flat rate based.If your're quoting by the hour,you're generally leaving money on the table.

I agree I have always done work the same way I know my hourly rate and I just figured how long it will take to do the job. I have never given my hourly rate out

COMMUNICATE UPFRONT! Insurance, worker compensation, fuel, wear and tear, your comoensation, small equipment able to work where larger cant

Hey Tim this about the best advise I've heard in a long time .God bless.

I use to work for a sleazy guy that would tell customer "our minimum is $75". All the customer heard was "$75". We have NEVER bulled someone the minimum. So when I would bill them $150 to they would and angry and say, "your boss said it would be $75". When customers ask me how much I say, "I charge $150 flat rate for this job, regardless how long it takes." If the work is done in 1 hour, they are even happier.

Really good video, great information! You Explained everything very well.

As a customer of a service provider( such as yard work, carpenter or plumber), I prefer a job quote figure rather than a cost per hour. This allow me to decide if I can afford the work needed or do I need to adjust the scope of the work before we start. As you point out this normally makes the customer happy and the service provider also. No one like surprises when it comes time to pay the bill. Thanks for the excellent video.

Great advice. When I 1st started doing tractor work I would quote the hourly rate. After a few jobs I found out that wasn't gonna cut it for the amount of work it takes to do specific jobs,not including loading,strapping down tractor,drive time and unstrapping and unloading at the job. I have started pricing the job by a few factors like difficulty of the job, how much of the work is gonna be more strenuous on my equipment loading and unloading and drive time to and from the job etc. I've seen this is much more profitable and the customers are more happy with an estimated total price than just an hourly price.

Sharing this video with my neighbour with a backhoe, he needs to see this. Made the same mistakes myself, thanks for the great video.

When it comes to Bush hogging and tilling I charge a flat rate to show up and provide 1 hour of work. This equates to 3 hours of my time. Then a hourly rate for every additional hour. I have a good idea of how long it should take, so estimating is ez. But some people like to do it in stages. The way I price makes it simple for the customer. They call & say hey I want you to come and bush hog for 'X' amont of time on this date, because they know my advertised rates. Or they may ask if I can do it in 'X' hours because they only have 'X' to spend. Sometimes I know how long it'll take and it's more than they want to spend by 100-150 dollars so I cut em deal. That typically gets me referrals!

A VERY interesting point, you made. Your hourly rate is ONLY a mental fraction of the equation, interesting! The only catch 22 is how well you know the area of the job! Is it sand or hard clay? Are there rocks, roots or pipelines in the vicinity?

THE LAST thing you want is a jerk customer out there with a stopwatch timing you to penny pinch you after job is over. ALWAYS give a solid number!

Good advice overall. Once you have an adequate number of hours working the equipment in various tasks, the estimating should become easier and more accurate. As a professional mechanic I could tell you exactly how long it would take to R&R an engine or transmission and rebuild it, and if you couldn't beat the flat rate manuals then you weren't much of a mechanic...

That was a very informative and down to earth video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas.

Are there any non fixed costs to you that could eat heavily into profit between the time that you bid the job and actually do the work? Like price of fuel, etc.

An hourly rate is the only way to be fair. I've had garbage collectors come on to my property to get a pile of garbage. After 15 minutes they went back on the deal. Wanted a lot of money for a little work. I wanted to see if my neighbors kid would mow my yard. It is about 2 acres. Trees down blackberries creeping everywhere, so many projects I needed to know how much he would do it per hour. There was probably 6 to 20 hours work. No way could I pay him by the job. By the hour is the only fair way on a big job.

Never give price in person unless it’s something very basic. I like to put on paper all my material and overhead for the job, though we own our equipment and trailers you too incorporate that into the proposal and any speciality attachment. If you didn’t have any of this you would need to rent thus pricing needs to be soaked into the bid. After we crunch all the overhead numbers, risk assessments if their are any to consider when performing the job I begin to work my profit numbers. We don’t have a formula for this it’s all based on years of experience as all sites conditions vary. We bid per job, provide scope of work and that gets sent to customer with their signed acknowledgment before moving on.

Written scope of work costs! Anything else is an additional cost. Had to many customers/changing things/ that they want adds to the cost period. Had customers not happy with what was done. Contractors lean on their property! Court costs are a painful process. I'm a professional and have no desire to make it that far with a problem customer. You can't make them all happy! In writing is the way to go! Legally for all concerned.

I just did a septic job, tree, and a spring development over the weekend all 3 jobs took less time then I thought but I still charged to quote I priced them. They were happy and didn't complain about it being so expensive but I paid for all the materials out of my pocket before I did the job. Thanks Tim. Great video.

Great point, great customer service strategies, I see why you are successful! Thanks for sharing!

I tell the person that I need to make at least a certain number per hour, and give them a minimum price, plus an idea of what it should cost. Not all projects take the planned time, and it's an estimate, not a firm figure. It can be tough doing new jobs that I don't know exactly how long it will take to do a job. I have a set price for things that I do often.

Time and materials (Hourly) is no go for me as customer. How do you know when the job is done? When the check book is empty

I've found giving back some $ if the project goes extremely well go a long way to getting repeat customers.

First step is to buy the tractor. I'd have a 1025r today if JD would ship the belly mower. Looking at mid-late August now...🤷‍♂️

i did that , chain jerk, ... it was my own chain and truck ... and when it snapped it came flying at me and left a series of chain shaped marks on the hood, the roof but did not break any glass or my head ... lucky

I'll give you another example of when you might want to charge by the hour but say you have to be there with your equipment everything unloaded 5:00 in the morning you can't start your job until 10:00 in the morning I've actually had that happen there's a lot of really crazy jobs where we've had to be on site with our equipment and we had to wait let's say on someone else either to get there or to get their job done before I'm even allowed to start my job

This is so true. I quote a customer for 500 and even that it was hatd work and one blade of my triller got broken, it toke me less yhan 5 hours and the customer gave me an additional 200$. He was helping me with picking up the rocks too.

So yes that does mean they're really situations where I've actually had to wait 5 hours or longer before I really did any actual work or at least work with my equipment

I believe I asked you these questions a few years ago.

In the automotive repair business we do not charge by the “hour anymore is the price per job because if you quote hours and you finish early you can get sued for fraud

Bangger of a video ......... not sure why it doesnt have triple the views .....

What about lawn aerating with the compact tractor?

My starting breaking-the-ice negotiation point is always what it might cost them to rent a machine and do the work themselves. A half day rental is rarely four full hours after considering travel time refueling pressure washing and returning the machine undamaged.

Thank you Tim. Have been looking for more of this type of content from you.

Sure don't what to get caught piddling! Very good information presented here that needs consideration. Well organized and understandable. Looking forward to continuing this topic.

People dont seem to understand the difference between an estimate and a bid. An estimate is just that. It isn't a locked in price, a bid is.

I DONT WORK FOR HOUR MONEY BUT FOR JOB DONE.

Newbies or those without experience always ask hourly rate (since they are basically clueless). With experience comes the ability to accurately quote based on scope of work with a contingency clause. Want to see how slow a tractor or heavy equipment can work? Accept a quote based on hourly rate......Game here in NE Texas are wingnuts with a wore out tractor and 6' mower offering to mow lots and acreage. Every time I see someone mowing a field in 1st gear low I know they are on the hourly rate. Excuse is always the same line of BS: "Well this field is new to me so I have to go slow....".

Damn solid advice.. As a potential customer i dont care about hourly rates and extra fees for this and that. If its 300 squirrelskin project I'm happy to even maybe pay a tad more than the project was worth even when everything is smooth sailing and done as promised and faster than discussed.. Here's the 300 squirrelskins to a job well done. Simple and effective pricing is worth something to me. Its the "making my too big project for me" simple an easy for me with some monetary contribution was just the thing i needed as the customer.

Well said Tim! I own a small excavation business and I don't like to price most jobs by the hour. Now, some, yes I do price per hour such as land clearing and as you know, there is a list. This is an awesome video for someone trying to get started and "they" should consider your advice. I also do some tractor work as well and I agree with your thoughts. Thanks 👍

Great video! After doing a few jobs this year I was realizing quoting the job left a much happier customer than when I gave an hourly rate, and this helped identify those factors and will improve future bids and customer satisfaction. Thanks for making these videos!

That dude doesnt blink... does he have eye lids? lol

Thanks Tim! I considering getting into this type of work as a side gig and wondered about your approach in developing estimates. This makes a lot of sense!

Hey great video. Very informative.

As I have my own lawncare business. I like to over quote a job than under quote. The customer would rather hear that the job is cheaper than having to pay more.

Also when you tell the customer an hourly rate they feel like you might drag it out longer

I’m trying to start doing work with my 1025R TLB but the ads I’m placing haven’t been very effective. Where /how did you advertise in the beginning before having a robust referral method to getting jobs?

Very helpful I feel like I got took last year - had a 1 acre pasture to cut man came & looked said I charge $65 per hour & it will take about an hour- I'm thinking that sounds fair - he cuts it in 45 minutes ( I timed) he gets done & says that will be $ 150 ? I said but only took 45 min what happened to $65 - he said I have a minimum of $150 which was never told to me- I feel like I got screwed- I would never use him again & would pay someone $200 in the future if needed if they would just be honest about the price !

Hi, Tim! I think this may be the first time I've had a different experience than you. I find that laying out an hourly rate works EXCEPTIONALLY well for me. But there are some additional steps that I take to ensure the customer stays happy. For example, I take pictures of my hour meter at the start and end of the project. So, if the machine isn't running, I'm not charging. Additionally, I make a point of stopping at about the halfway point to gauge progress with the customer.

Bid a job once for $1k. Guy was thrilled. Said others were double that. Did the work in half the time I expected and told him $500. He got mad and said I’m not earning my potential. I told him. Life is not about $ but being honest with yourself and treating others with respect. He paid me and the jobs rolled in based on word of mouth. Made more money that summer with a side hustle than my regular job.

Tim great video. These are the lessons I’ve been learning the last few years.

I agree with your opinion. I brought my truck in for some work that I wanted done on it to a big chain company, and they quoted me 3 hours to get the work done, which I agreed to have the work done. It took them 1 hour and 15 minutes , and when I went to pay, I was charged for the full 3 hours, which I wasn't happy about. Long story short, corporate told me they were charging for the full 3 hours, and I never went back to them for work again. If they would have quoted by the job and not the hour, I'm sure I would still be a customer.

Hi Tim, iam planning on starting my own business, maybe you can help me with finding the right way of pricing: Iam planning providing me as a driver/operator for lawn equipment like a weedeater and a mower. So that means i would use their lawnmower/weedeater to mow their lawn. I would really appreciate some advice,thanks!:)

This is sound advice but back when I use to do commercial dozer work I had a slightly different way. I had a small JD 350 and did mostly driveways, road building and some land scaping. When a customer called me or in most cases show up at one of my jobs. First question always asked how much you charge an hour? Well at that time I got $35 hrs for me and my dozer that counted my time if I was operating dozer or doing something off the machine. That often got me more work because from that my goal was to get asked to do an estimate. I spent my life on heavy equipment and I was very good at knowing how long it would take me to do a job. This is the most important part of being a professional and get you more noticed than the things mentioned. The one thing I did have was a minimum hire time that was 5 hours and I had a equipment moving charge if I had to travel more than 20 miles. So for those small jobs if it only took 3 hours they know up front they had to pay for 5. This often meant they would find another little something to do to get their value and that made them and me happy. If a job was only 5 hours that was enough to make me profitable for a full day. That was good seasonal work and when I didn't have any dozer work I ran my own timber business to keep busy.

Loved the segment and would love to see more!