Been producing for about 3 years now. Now, THIS is thinking outside the box! Thanks so much for sharing this technique, man, I'm gonna try it out for sounds that need to be super wide and then use my other tricks for the more mono sounds. My mixes are gonna improve for sure (I'm aiming for a style similar to Madeon's that has a really thicc wall of sound). Cheers!
Late to the party, but wow this is so simple that i almost feel stupid for not coming up with this :D. These kinds of production videos really restore my faith in humanity
Bro this video is a nugget of knowledge that is hard to come by. I know this was 4 years ago but have you considered making more videos. Would like to see more tutorials.
Good point! When summing these different examples into mono, they will play at roughly the same level - i e softer, and sound pretty much the same. The split technique will however be much wider in stereo - compared to the other examples - as well as obviously having less artifacts from 'spreader' type plugins, since this technique does not use those. The only downside I could see to this technique is it could sound _too_ wide - but you've always got the option to then pan the channels more towards the center. For a background pad I would typically pan these channels fully left and right, but with a chord sound playing more of a lead type melody, I prefer keeping the different channels panned more towards the center.
Just discovered mono compatibility today lol I made a song that had backing vocals in stereo then tried to play it on m phone but I could only hear the lead vocal
The perceived width often comes from phase shifting and to my ears that always sounds a bit weird, hence I rarely ever use wideners/stereoizers. In a mixing situation where I have "no other choice" I will blend in a chorus or similar subtle stereo effect that uses pitch modulation and I rarely use it in 100% width.
I would firstly check whatever built in effects the patch may use, and then decrease the mix of the those effects - as well as the overall output channel stereo width - to an "in between" level where the processing still adds to the width, but don't mess up the mono mix too much.
In this case three channels is a good option. If you want to place one of the notes towards the center, I would suggest you do that with the lowest note of the three. The more "assymetric" your panning is, the wider it will be perceived. Perhaps your chord synth could be slightly tilted to one side by using two notes on one side and one on the other. As long as your full mix doesn't feel tilted you should be fine. Hope this helps!
@@bsways It's because we're combining mono channels (with different audio information), which don't cancel each other out when summing into mono. I hope this makes sense.
Then basic maths come in double the original chords in same midi pattern lowering octave (meaning your original 3 notes chord +lower octave 3 notes chord in same midi pattern)That would be even and you can continue with this trick.
Please check the comment section as this has been discussed previously! The method in the video is indeed only suitable for chords. For one shot samples I would typically experiment with "standard" widening techniques like chorus or reverb.
Sure, firstly you want to make sure that the reverb/delay settings don't use excessive stereo width, like values over 100% width, as some effect plugins offer this functionality. For any specific questions, don't hesitate to DM me on Instagram. Hope this helps!
i would argue its not super mono compatible, it just has less artifacts. there is a noticeable difference when pressing the mono button on my speakers. It becomes a lot smaller collapsed in mono
Sure, you're right! Signals panned to the sides will indeed be quieter when collapsed to mono, so one will have to adjust the levels, and balance the signals to an in-between level which doesn't sound too loud in stereo, and not too soft in mono, compared to your true mono sounds (typically kick, bass, lead vocal). The point using this method, instead of simply slapping a chorus on a center-panned mono synth and call it a day, is that here, the two channels doesn't share the same tone information and therefore sounds wider and at the same time has less artifacts when summed.
Being a beginner I usually split all synths to L-R and keep my kick and bass with very little widening I'm finding the bass patches I build on synths screw up when I mono them with utility any ideas why ?any help would be great
Double check that your synth patch doesn't have a chorus or (stereo-)unison mode activated, since those typically will create quite substantial problems when summing to mono. Same goes if you have several oscillators tuned to the same note, and at the same time panned across the stereo field. Hope this helps!
@@kyaal thank you for the reply I ain't got any music on tis channel you are bang on I turned of the chorus on it even tho it was 10% it still had an effect I'm making beats 10 years and only now have began to grasp it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-u354aiViYSg.html this is as good I can throw out haha
Indeed! Depending on your production (and unless the stereo piano sounds terrible when summed into mono), it can make sense to simply narrow the stereo width to have less of a difference when comparing the stereo mix to the mono mix. Or, should the mono sum of the stereo piano sound weird you could also experiment by using only the L or the R channel which would take out any issues but on the other hand leave you with a mono piano. If your piano arrangement isn't too complex you could also try and split for example 3-note chords into 3 instances of your software piano and play each piano with one note each (in mono) and pan them separately. For some software synths there are also presets that spread the panning over the keyboard (The Korg M1 L+R piano comes to mind here). Hope this helps!
This method really requires chord synths. What type of ambience sounds are you using, and in what context of other sounds in the mix? If you describe it a bit further I'm sure there are some smart ways to make it wide without messing too much with the mono mix.
With a three note chord I would typically pan two of the notes to the left and one to the right. If you were to create three copies of the synth instead of two you could also experiment with three different pan positions of the three notes. I'm not afraid of having the stereo mix "unbalanced" - in regard to what type of sounds you pan to the left and right respectively. Should you for example have more of a synth pad to one side of your track, you could just pan something else to the right to fill out your stereo image. Remember that the more difference we have in one side compared to the other, the wider the mix will be perceived. Hope this helps!
This method is based on having different notes on different channels. If you only have access to one channel of recorded guitar chords this technique won't work. However - if you are about to record a guitar and want to use this trick, you could record the guitar in two takes with different voicings of the chord progression. Hope this helps!
If I understand your question correctly; Yes. To add on; hard panned signals will be perceived louder than their mono-summed counterpart so in order to not have the panned sounds too soft when replayed in mono you'd preferably want to mix those elements somewhat "too loud" in stereo. It's a matter of balancing your stereo mix to your mono mix. Run some tests with a mono-button and you'll quickly find out how it works!
I think the way hard-panned signals drop when summed to mono is actually good for mono compatibility. Gives more room for lead, drums and bass. At least Dan Worral thinks so anyway.
I love the sound of flangers doublers chorus's and unison.... how can I use these effects but have my correlation good …… cos im scared now all my tunes are gunna sound poo in mono arghhhhhh
naya ramirez Haha I see the struggle, well no need to worry! There are a couple of methods you could try if you really want to use the sound of chorus and similar effects in your mixes. First off, do you love the warbly quality of the effects, or the perceived width they create? If you mainly want the warbly sound, you could simply use those effects in mono and problem is solved. However if it’s the width you are looking for, then you could try to reduce the stereo width of the chorus to let’s say 50%. Those 50% width sounds could then also be tilted/panned to the left and the right of your mix. Listen to your mix in stereo and mono. Your stereo choruse’d sounds will have to be mixed a little ‘too loud’ in stereo in order not to be perceived too soft in mono. Let me know if these techniques work out for you!
@@kyaal thank you so much for your reply.. I love the weird quality's of the chorus and flanger and unison and doubles and I love the width they bring too.. love strange charecteristics in sounds and music haa.. when I check the sounds on ozone imager it's rite at the top where it should be... But I feel like the sound is ducking a bit in mono but dnt know if it's in ma head a bit.. I'm gunna have to get some big people's songs in mono to see if I'm worrying about nothing lol... If I have all my fave effects no more then 50 percent (cos I normally have it at like I dunno 40 or 45...) shud I be ok?? My sounds arnt even goin that far out of the middle pizza slice on isotope stereo imager... I think I'm just going to use a free vst blue cats that lets u put any of ur plug in effects to certain bands.. so i can just add weird Doublers an unison to just mids and highs... Wud that make a difference???? Sorry for writing an essay man dnt wanna annoy u
@@snoozyloco609 As always within mixing, it's hard to give any specific guidelines to what would be the best fit for your production. I'm not sure on what effect plugins you use, but note that when I mention for example "50%", I mean the _stereo width_ of your channel. That might - or might not - mean the same thing as "mix" or "dry/wet" in your effect plugin. The more you crank the wet signal as well as the width of your effect, the more likely it is you will balance the track 'too soft for mono' if listening in stereo, and 'too loud for stereo' if listening in mono. I hope this makes sense? If you apply the effects to only certain bands of your channel, the phase cancellation might be less noticeable, however it could also cancel frequencies in a more unpredictable manner when you compare your stereo mix to your mono mix. With that said - removing any chorusing and similar processing from lower frequencies in a stereo track would 99 times out of 100 benefit your mix. Oh - looks like we got a guideline after all!
@@kyaal thank you so much for your reply :D i think im just going to use whatever i use anyway and worry less and just put it in a aux send so i can high pass the effects then :).. some friends have said high pass at 130... some people have said 200 :S one last question and i promise to never bug you again lol.. when i check on izotope and the correlation is near enough pinned at the top... does that mean i have nothing at all to worry about??
@@snoozyloco609 I'm happy to help out! I'm not familiar with Izotope's correlation meter, however a reading close to +1 would mean that most of your material is in 'mono' - makes sense since you typically place kick, bass and vocals in the very center. My best suggestion for your mix is that you compare stereo and mono and make adjustments to your chorus'ed tracks so that they are not too loud in stereo and at the same time not soft in mono.
@@kyaal there’s a few different ways! You can simply double click on the individual note and a bunch of parameters will pop up, including a pan knob. This is the easiest way to do it. But there’s also a section at the bottom of the piano roll that allows you to adjust pan, velocity, or other controls for several notes at once or individually.
@@Itsallawesome Cool! So by that you could then pan each note of __a chord__ to different panning positions? (Your description sounds a little bit like standard midi pan/automation which is why I ask.) Thanks!
This technique is best used for chord type sounds. Regarding ideas for widening monophonic sounds, please see the comment threads following the questions from @Solar Max and @vjhighlander.
Ludwiig, you are right, headphones reproduce stereo effects perfectly! However, there are many places where you listen in mono. For example in clubs, stores, fm radio, well basically you listen in mono whenever you don't listen in headphones or you are in the sweet spot between a pair of speakers. With my described method you can have an even wider stereo width than what you would get from using "stereo effects", as well as making your mix translate better into mono. Win/win!
Yes, if you fold the mix of the two panned synths to mono, it will sound the same as the full original mono synth chord. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any further questions!
@@kyaal thanks buddy, you gained a subscriber today... i have the first person on yt who actually replies and ask for more queries even... you are too god man..... Thanks thanks thanks.... surely will ask questions if i would have any question, do you have any Instagram.?
Yeah, cool for pads. But what abuot bass sound or synths? It seems like it contains of just one note (it's not a chord, like in your case), but sounds VERY WIDE! Example: main bassline in this song ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7RDpFNF3B80.html
With a one note pattern, like a bass line, width is typically created with the use of Chorus or pan spread of unison oscillators in the synth. With those methods there will always be a trade-off for mono compatibility. The more 'impressive' the width of your monophonic synth is in stereo, the more likely you will turn the level of that synth down, ending up with an un-balanced mix in mono. Regarding the linked video. The main part of the bass line sits in the middle of the mix, most likely a sub bass in mono, layered with a higher frequency range bass synth, which has been widened to bring your attention to the sides. The song indeed has a "wide" sound due to many of the sounds being heavily chorused/widened - but if you listen to the song in mono you will all of a sudden hear a quite different balance of the instruments. The intro melody is perceived quieter, same with pads and chord synths, and most noticeable, a substantial reduction of treble in the hi-hat and clap sounds, making the mix appear somewhat muffled in mono compared to stereo. With this said.. Sometimes it could make sense to use Chorus or similar. But it's important to keep track of your mix in mono during the mixing process, so it doesn't fall apart. A chorused sound would need to be mixed a little bit 'too' loud in stereo for it not to be perceived too quiet in mono. I would suggest that in cases where Chorus is your only option, try and keep the width setting at a lower percentage. Maybe 50% would do as good as 100%?
@@kyaal Wow... In fact your method perfectliy works not just with pads, but also with any sounds! For example with plucks: i've just got a fantastic groove, where bass is in mono and chord is separated the way you've discibed in this tutorial. Very cool! Thank you!
@@vjhighlander That's great to hear! Indeed, any chord synth works to split like this. To maintain focus of the 'important' sounds in a mix, I prefer to use less spread on lead-type chord sequences, and more spread on 'invisible' sounds like pads that stays in the background of the mix.
