They made the characters strength be lore accurate, my boy Chef has flames hot enough to cook a medium rare steak in 20 minutes while the "False Son" has a fucking laser beam of death. It only makes sense I guess.
don't forget that false sons laser has a 0.45 proc coefficient (or so i've heard), which is an attack that hits cross map 10 times per second for 4 seconds, while chef cleaver has a 0.5 proc coefficient, hits 2 times (if you're lucky) and you only get 3 charges
Well at least in False Sons case. Being on the "overtuned" side of the balanced spectrum is more fun then Chef on the polar opposite end. Although I may have a hot take that his balance is fine considering Loader and Railgunner have existed on a level I'd consider much above the rest of the cast for quite a while without much change there. And it is satisfying playing a character based on a boss, and have them actually feel like a boss.
I agree with the boss comment, so many games give you a boss character unlock…and then they feel weak. False Son feels op. And he should be. Is a tough boss.
Loader and Railgunner require at least SOME skill to utilise their incredible power. Yes, it's relatively easy to learn them, but you can't win just by mashing buttons. They actually reward you for trying. False son doesn't do that.
I think instead of "Loader and Railgunner," you meant to say "Desparado Bandit" because that's the actually broken survivor. Loader and RG require some competence before they become really strong meanwhile you can practically infinitely stack desparado for as much damage as you'd like
@@seraphi.m that also requires some competence and time management, or you will be blasted the second you go onto next stage and face a horde of elite elder lemurians without your desperado stacks.
Agreed, slight nerfs at most would be fine. Boss characters should be strong! Plus, I still think Loader is the GOAT and I would hate to see her nerfed in any way... having an unbalanced roster is more fun than a forced balanced one imo (look at forced balancing on a game like Helldivers). Chef needs some love tho
I honestly like that he’s as op as he is. It doesn’t have that “boss when you fight him vs when you unlock him” joke to make like I thought it would. But nope. He is as scary and powerful as ever lol.
@@raven_knight_076 I think railgunner blows. Maybe it’s a skill issue. I got beef with the scope sensitivity and the weird refraction shader they slapped around the edges that make enemies appear one place when they are at a completely different place. That and both of her utilities suck. I do not like her, and it’s not like I’m terrible at fps games, I just don’t think it was translated well to railgunner. She just feels weird.
@@lilwheedleI don't wanna be mean but absolutely skill issue. being able to oneshot most enemies and bosses for the first 4 stages cannot be weak. Honestly her worst attributes are movement(the only part of her kit that requires skill) and aoe(which doesn't matter since you can just one shot all of the big threats first, then worry about the baby Lemurians).
i argue that the alt laser for false son helps more when you are planning to pick up multiple stone flux pauldrons. you dont have to even hit an enemy to get the spikes back so you can choose either if you want more speed now or spikes
I found the instant beam is neat in longer runs where it gets lots of charges and where you can pew a lot while staying mobile (and where slowly channeling the long beam would get you killed). But it feels very painful in early and midgame (especially if the game does not hand you any hp-ups).
Kinda surprised there was no mention of the wonkiness of aerial slam. Namely how the longer it's "active" the wider its range gets. This can be artificially extended through the use of Milky Chrysalis to the point it can hit EVERYTHING on the map.
I think simply making false son bigger by default would be a cool nerf 1. It looks cool 2. It increases his hitbox making it harder to dodge things 3. Fitting through some stuff becomes impossible like getting that leg chest in abyssal depths (if you can even get it as he is now). 4. Smallse son eww, big son YEAA :DD It looks cool, it makes him stand out AND its sort of a nerf for how overtuned he is, but maybe there is a reason that every single survivor is the same size, for example, fitting through spaces to get to the tp that would otherwise be troublesome Edit: Yea this is just an idea that i thought was kinda cool, not a necessity. If you guys want to play it, there is a mod called SillyFalseSon I think. You can adjust the size of him in the config. have fun
@@VulcanicCloud It's not a non-factor for balance - size can have noticeable mechanical effects in games like this. I agree it would be cool if the playable character false son was the exact dimensions of the boss, but I'd want that just for the flavor I won't pretend it's needed as a mechanical adjustment.
@@VulcanicCloud That is how balancing work. In a game where dodging and avoiding getting hit matters, character hit box matters. If you make 2 characters that do the exact same thing with exact same number and the only different is in the hitbox, one of them will do better than the other.
I think the alt special is being undersold. You get a ton of repeatable charges for it when paired with flux pauldrons and the fact that it's instant lets you spam the spikes way more. You need a lot more health to make it work tho. You can basically play him as a ranged character most of the time if you want to and a damn good one.
Just got done with my eclipse 8 grind for commando and im doing false son now and the difference is actually hilarious Haven't had an eclipse climb this easy ( so far ) since I did loader. The fact that almost every item is good on him just makes runs so consistent.
@@tonydragon784 id recommend watching disputed origin's eclipse guide, there's soo much to get into really since everything needs context but that being said: Plasma shrimp + transcendence and or polylute Headset + bands Shatterspleen + crit Gasoline + ignition tank Spare drone parts + empathy cores ( although honestly drone parts by itself is pretty much a won run )
@@tonydragon784 dont let Eclipse scare you, especially when first starting the climb, a cautious slug completely negates E1. Send it and you'll get better just from playing. ATG/Bands are always good, movement speed is more important than in monsoon>, bleed is op. GLHF
I agree with the sentiment completely. They somehow managed to make a character more op than LOADER. I don't play loader BECAUSE of how op she is and yet, SOMEHOW, I love the false son. I'm a walking philosophical inconsistency.
@@dr.facilier5186if i can regularly crit most targets with dogshit ps4 stickdrift then so can anyone else. Most enemies in this game aren't particularly nimble and they tend to beeline straight towards you making them easy targets.
Yeah this character's release was like the second time I wasl ike "YES MORE STONE FLUXES PLEASE" (the first time was when I had a big egocentrism run and ended up with 60 irradiant pearls at the end after cleansing it all so I was too fast to control my characte). You get such a huge boost of stats from stacking stone fluxes, and (provided you can deal with the constant micromanagement of spamming out secondary attacks) the buffs from his passive can make up for the lost movespeed quite easily.
My favorite comparison for false son vs chef is false son's single debuff counts twice for deathmark while chefs 2 debuffs dont count at all. Thanks Gearbox
The main advantage to alt lazer is that you can infinitely stack spikes, whereas default lazer lasts longer than you spikes duration, especially if you charge it up all the way.
Its cooldown also helps with continuous stacking, plus getting a second laser isn't exactly a hard achievement in E8 runs tbh. Its not that bad, even compared to the regular one. Its just not as good in early-game and has more demanding aim (like really demanding, pretty much gotta be spot-on in longer ranges)
hopoo makes broken survivors: oh its fun and you don't have to pick them it's just whatever playstyle you want! gearbox makes broken survivor: OVERTUNED i get hating the gearbox execs for dropping the dlc in the state it was in but i think these devs are cooking with this big boy. the character is fun to play and i play games to have fun.
People hate false sun being broken because he has so many bells and whistles with the weird stat increases, unique mechanics, and versatility. All of that while being the odd one out in terms of character design and status amongst the other survivors. Although gearbox making him is probably the main reason he's disliked, tbh I think there's validity with the other reasons and people would have found him abrasive even if hopoo created him. Personally I find loader and railgunner more broken but they're more strictly limited to one-shot stuff which i think people are used to being extremely powerful so they get the blind eye. (Plus it's basically impossible to nerf loader/railgunner because their entire identity and playstyle IS dealing unprecedented amounts of damage with single abilities, and while that is disgustingly powerful, to take it away would make them zero fun; whereas false sun could probably just be tuned down and still be enjoyable because his strengths are more cumulative)
@@ryder281 absolutely disagree ngl. The entire point of false son as a playable character is that you're *playing as a boss*. imagine if Providence was a playable character and they made his commando tier, that wouldn't make sense and would feel jarring. I think op characters are fine, and he's also not even the strongest survivor in the game so there's no reason to nerf him. if he was absolutely insane, clearly above runner and loader, then I'd agree. But as we're playing as a boss and it still feels like it, yet still not being #1 in the game? this is fine to me.
@@JMStheKingFair point of view. I think I just personally wish he played more like a typical survivor rather than a playable boss, but that doesn't make a lot of sense so maybe he just isn't for me. I do actually like the point you brought up of, "we're playing as a boss and it still feels like it, yet still not being #1 in the game" Didn't think about it that way until you mentioned it but good point and I honestly agree. that makes me respect the design that went into him a little more when looking at it from that angle.
Laser burst is highly underrated. Because it’s instant and you get more stocks with growth and it always gives you back 30%, stacking spikes is so much faster. Continuous beam for solo, burst for coop
Some have argued that playing as a Boss doesn't really fit being a "Survivor" and I can see what they mean, but at the same time it's cool as heck! If only he was the same size as his Boss self so it would feel more like playing as a Boss.
I’ve been rocking the single laser to make him feel fair, the current long laser is brain dead. It’s actually solid but harder to use. Allows you to weave spikes slams /attacks on a boss while keeping the percent stack up. It’s faster off rift barely on killing level one boss with no items. Also it procs bands at range! It’s really buggy though, hit scan and didn’t actually pierce for shit. If they made it wider and pierce like it states it would be really good! I love the burst feel vs the I’m looking at you pew pew feel.
Here's an exploit with fase son: The arial charged slam animation does a little jump before making you shoot downwards, until it detects touching the ground which starts the attack. The hitbox does grow while falling (unsure if damage is fixed or not), but not because of distance fallen but because it increases every frame (cheaper to calculate). Turns out if during the little jump at the start you're already touching the ground (you jumped into a platform or my most consistent way to do this you jumped while walking up an almost vertical slope) you never "land" so you act like you're always falling. The hitbox keeps growing and it isn't blocked by walls, meaning if you wait a full minute you can get the entire map, but you can also just wait some 20 seconds and you can get rid of any wisps annoying you. The False Son keeps doing the falling slam animation which prevents you from doing anything but walk/running, using equipment or jumping (which makes you finally land activating the attack) you can not use any of your skills during this animation loop.
Characters don't have to be "balanced" in ROR2, as there's no PvP mode. Consider the modern classic Slay the Spire. Judging by pro player win rates, Watcher is best, Ironclad is second, and Defect/Silent sit at the bottom. However, this imbalance is irrelevant, as competitive players set goals such as doing as well as possible with each character and in "rotation" (winning game after game, switching characters each time). The same can be said for ROR2. No matter how strong False Son or Loader are, you still have to use Commando (for example) if you want to achieve goals with Commando!
The alt laser shouldn't be considered as a standalone. You can do that to the reg laser. Alt Laser can stack to craziness too and flows harder into the whole Spike mechanic gameflow, and considering I do macro a lot, I highly prefer the alt over the regular one. Its one of those things you have to try more and understand its use-cases as you play honestly. Heck even though its not as strong/good right of the gate, its not like its bad either. In the end my goal in E8 runs is Mithrix, and alt laser helps me more on later stages generally than the regular does in my experience (though that's also a bit of playstyle)
Thorns don't work well on anyone, and Luminous shot is only decent early game, it falls off pretty hard once you start to get more items because it's a flat amount of damage that has no proc coefficient
@@risingoblivion2024 sure stacking lunar ruin is nice but having to get hit in order to get a 25% chance to do something that your secondary already does every 4 seconds is still garbage. Like you'd have to be getting hit every second just to match literally just using your secondary on cool down
My first run I thought he was bad then I realized you’re supposed to hold down the laser to charge it. And then the game proceeded to give me 5 mountain shrines on verdant falls with the tp reward being infusions, that quickly became a true god run
Once again, saying that the alt laser is useless is heavily misleading. You can't do anything else while shooting the default laser, so you'll lose all your lunar ruin stacks from charging it up. But if you don't charge it, it's damage is pathetic. Not to mention the fact that you can't keep slamming and whatever while using it also would noticeably hinder your dps and proccing, potentially completely negating its extra firepower. And you can't dash while using it because that would cancel the laser... And, again, you're severely slowed down while both charging and using it. Combined with how dashing cancels it, that leaves you pretty wide open for attack. And it has twice the cooldown of the alt... And a terrible proc coefficient... And the alt gaining charges with growth is far more useful than the default laser getting increased duration (for all the reasons above and more) Don't get me wrong, it's very strong, but the alternate is just way more versatile, even if it is weaker. It's not about which is better, they're pretty even overall. And I prefer the versatility of the instant beam over the commitment of the charged laser.
I still prefer to use alt R, cause it is instant and I can keep slaming and stacking Spikes, but I see why original R is "better"(i really dont like that you cant cancel it without using dash, thou)
I used false son for a bit without realizing you could charge the laser for more damage. I just grabbed a bunch of proc chain items and bleed and the pitiful damage of an uncharged laser beam didn’t even matter 💀 I don’t think I have stacked 700 bleed any faster, and I only play the game heavily modded so 🤷♂️
Imo false son SHOULD be strong. He’s a boss character, and playing a strong character in this game feels way better than playing a weak one. False son being a powerful option does not hurt or subtract from the game in the same way that Chef being a weak option does. Nerfs are definitely a fine idea, but the last thing we should do is fixate on them and go overboard.
I personally enjoy him so much his gameplay is realy fun but yeah hes overtuned when conpared to alot of chars but in my opinion seeker is actually stronger do to her having everything a strong char needs and more and can be invicible
I know he is batshit op I know he is an instant win button I know he has ridiculous synergies But i hope with all of my hearth that my false boy doesnt get butchered by the balance patch because i will be real sad
AND the slam bug isn’t fixed, well not completely. You can still infinite slam if you do the bug BUT slam into any location that is higher than where you started the slam. It’s baffling how bad of a job gearbox did with the AMOUNT of resources they have.
Amount of resources? Well, most valuable resource is time and they probably didn't have enough. But it's good to see them working on it, I think we will get fun tweaks to characters and items.
