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Ive never been able to do high vocal cords I been able to do mid and low guttural but any time I try to do screams I scratch my throat and start coughing. I can do death metal all day comfortably but never was able to get those highs.
I love metal. I hear folks say the depths of hell on a lot of these videos. There here already. Hell doesn't exist yet. Well, in time as we know it. Rock on!
I am a metal vocalist, but I spent my formative singing years being classically trained in various choirs. Ironically, I had to utilize principles of choral singing in order to learn how to scream without hurting my vocal cords. Breath control, opening the throat, creating a wide space in the mouth, using the diaphragm, stance and posture, etc. Enunciation is especially important, since the distortion can easily obfuscate diction. I appreciate your analysis of the mechanics of it. You're spot on.
Dude, I'm gonna learn this now. Used to do a lot of choral work, too. Good to know I can learn this without annihilation on top of the damage and change my voice has gone through with age and abuse.
Hi, I teach vocal music and I love how you explain what's going on. You're definitely correct: even the coaches and instructors who are aware of good distortion don't have a working definition for everything that goes on when a vocalist growls or "screams". It's so refreshing learning more about this and being able to relate it back to what I already know, as well as teach my students about music they otherwise wouldn't be exposed to. I appreciate the work you're doing here and utterly respect your craft. Take care and stay safe!
Professional opera singer and classical teacher here! ☺️Firstly, thank you for your videos, I started following you because I’m interested in starting my own harsh vocals journey and you’ve been a godsend. I find it quite bizarre that classical singers would criticize this style, given what we do is also quite an extreme form of singing in its own way. I’m a spinto/dramatic soprano and sing predominantly Wagner, Verdi and Puccini, which features heavy orchestration of about 100 players for 3-4 hours with no vocal amplification. It’s physically demanding to maintain that level of projection, and you do have to be sensible to avoid injury. Musical theatre singers are also belting in 8 shows per week, which is also physically taxing. It seems hypocritical to call metal singing inherently damaging, especially without understanding the technique. Not to mention those people are painting opera as a stuffy, outdated and elitist art form that no one would want to listen to with that kind of attitude… it’s a losing situation for everyone 😳
Yeah it’s hard because at least a million years ago when I studied classical singing for my degree, it was totally unheard of and forbidden to explore anything like distorted vocals and extreme phonations. I was pretty much looked at like I was insane haha. And even now many years later with a lot more knowledge about these things I still find most traditional musicians find the extreme vocals not only to be off-putting in sound but people are still convinced that it cannot be healthy. Times are changing though and people like yourself have open minds and are getting into this stuff more and more every day! Thanks again for checking it out!!
Great comments! As a professional rock/metal bassist and singer for 45 years, and a lifelong classical music lover, I'll admit I never enjoyed harsh vocals until I heard women doing it. And that was just last year when I first heard Jinjer! I'm really only starting to enjoy listening to guys doing gutterals and screams now. And there pretty much have to be great cleans along with the uncleans or I'm out. Spencer from Periphery is pretty righteous, but Jinjer was my gateway drug. And I like a lot of the girls who scream, especially Courtney, Angela, Lacey Sturm from Flyleaf. There's something empowering in a woman screaming like a warrior boss. I think you're awesome! You say you were looked at like you were insane 😂 but I love your voice, and probably would have been in love with you if I'd been around! You freaking rock!
My voice coach growing up actually told me that metal vocals (screaming, growls, etc) are safe if you have the practice and training, and a classical background is a good place to start.
Oh my gawwwwd, I'm so sick of reactions of people saying the same cliche lines. Who's standing backstage doing this? Where's the distortion pedal? Maybe she just really is that talented at something that you don't understand. The best part is that she's definitely one of the best clean vocalists in the genre, just as an extra slap in the face. Or should I say, vocal folds?
Weird thing is that most of the reactions I saw from vocal coaches were them being really impressed by it and noticing how she is able to those vocals without damaging her voice. Seems I got lucky there.
Well the first time I saw this song I was also quite sceptical because this is just really uncommon. Thought that maybe she had a pedal or a pitch shifter. But after seeing a few more songs you realize she is just really really good. Any sort of fakery of shenanigans would have definitely come out by now.
I want the magical 'scream pedal'. Sounds fun. Honestly, to me, it makes sense that there would be overlap. It still pretty much has everything to do with how you direct air, posture, diaphragm control, mouth shapes... etc. So if you can scream really well, what's holding you back from also singing well? You know? If anything, I would almost expect someone who can scream like that to be able to sing, even if they've never tried. Obviously they will have to learn to control pitch and stuff like that, but by the time you have a few screams secured, you're basically halfway to singing well already.
@@roblarne ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oanbEBbKWNM.html Mike is NOT cupped there You also have never seen her live... So you make up shit because you can't handle the truth. That she is capable of doing that without external aide
I dunno...I've been watching the vocal coach etc reactions to Pisces for a few days now and they seem overwhelmingly positive. Virtually everyone seems very impressed with her talent, if not a bit shocked when she goes into growl mode. I didn't really come across anyone turning their nose up at her. I think a lot of the 'laughing' when she shows how low her voice can go is nervous reaction/surprise...that's how I took most of it anyway.
All reactions are always positive whether they like what they are reacting to not. If they reacted and didn't like stuff people would storm the comments with hate and not like the content or watch it
Your videos have such a high value, I wish more people would watch it. I really appreaciate you taking time to explain these concepts, as I hope I can improve my vocals over time with these tips
I guess I've been lucky. Of all of the vocal coaches I've seen comment on Tatiana, they have been almost exclusively positive. Sure, there's the moment of shock at the first chorus (that's why I watch them), but pretty much everyone has been legitimately impressed. They're very clear to point out that no, she's not hurting herself, she knows what she's doing. I've only seen one person even doubt that it's her after finishing the video. The algorithm must be being kind to me :D
Hi, Mary. RU-vid’s algorithm served up this video bc I have been going through Helion Prime’s catalog. I was already thrilled you are part of that excellent band. But now i am blown away by the sophistication and insight you bring to your craft. This was a really interesting video. Thanks for putting it together and for bringing your instrument to HP.
I think I'm in love! This girl understands! And she lives it. I can tell by the strong speaking voice that she can sing like a siren. I was never into harsh vocals until I heard Tatiana. I still really only like it when it's done by a woman. And only if she also has a beautiful clean voice. It's the contrast that makes it awesome. This is one of my favorite Jinjer-related videos. I need to take this course!
Wow I can see why your video was the first to pop up when I asked how to sing like Jinjer. Very informative and fact based - awesome video. Btw I don’t/can’t sing so I had no clue what she was even doing - thank you
Just as a mention: All of the reactions I've seen so far, everyone gets surprised, nonetheless many of them (real and professional coaches/singers) get to the conclusion that even though they don't know the technics, they say she sings in a healthy way because she keeps singing after many years with no injuries or she shows no signs of damage after changing from screaming to clean voice, even some opera singers get it (you can watch The Charismatic Voice, she is even trying to learn) so we have opinions from both sides of course. Love your channel too :)
I don’t know man I think for every one who is giving it a chance, there’s 2 or 3 totally advocating against harsh vocals and/or saying weird things like she needs an effect pedal or backing tracks to make it happen. So, while it’s good to hear that some teachers are slowly becoming open to these things after years and years, it’s still really in general frowned upon by the formal clean singing voice teacher community.
I just want to say I love your videos they've been very insightful as I've always done clean vocals and never thought I'd be able to get into screaming and start learning those techniques. You encouraged me to get into it! I would love to see you cover David Draiman's technique in Down With the Sickness though! That would be awesome. Thanks so much for sharing with us!
Exactly. If you learn right you can do anything as well as taken care of your instrument. One person who can do it all thru all different styles of vocals. He has done it for years in over 10 + bands. I am talking about Mike Patton he his idolize by many vocalists and as a range like no other. Can change on a dime thru them all and been doing it night after night day after day for over 30 years. Now he is a amazing singer.
I want to thank Yoo young lady. This was very informative. This girl can sing. Another female vocalist that I have been exploring is Floor Jansen. Another talented vocalist!
The problems arise when people start engaging their true cords during the screams- like when you add some tone to a whisper: a true whisper won’t hurt you; but if you whisper at a louder pitch it’s very dangerous for the voice. A true false cord scream is in theory safe, but many people aren’t actually doing true false cord screams at all times. It’s kinda tricky even when you really know your shit... I hear a lot of screamers whose speaking voices sound lower and more deep - even if they’re not experiencing hoarseness or nodules.
Could explain what a “mid-growl” is? I was just told that’s what I do when I sing this song but I’ve never heard of that term and can’t find anything on it 🤦♀️
Just a medium toned/or sounding false cord scream- basically false cords but not elongated like aaaa shapes to sound high or oooo shapes to sound low. Normal pronunciation results in sort of a medium pitch or toned harmonics on the false cord growl. Hope that helps
VoiceHacks thank you! That really does help! I totally thought that person was trying to say I was still doing fry while Tati was doing false cord. But I still could figure out what a mid growl was or if you could even growl with fry which is what I first learned. I was completely lost as I haven’t even been doing this for a year yet 😅
Lamb Of God is rather popular with mids as well, and Austin Dickey has a lovely demonstration and tutorial on his channel using the "Pitbull" technique. It's a rather common scream.
@@voicehacks Just found your channel this morning and had to subscribe. Love how you break down everything to a beginner's level. It makes it all very easy to understand the science behind the technical aspects of vocals. Stay safe and keep up the amazing work!
Hey Maryz i didnt know you were also doing tutorials. This is amazing ! I didnt know about false cord ! Did you checked male singer from Igorrr ? I love his technique with a "half fry" (i know how it works inside but i dont have any tech word for this). He is the only one i know doing this. Wonderful work !
thank you so much!! I would love to see one of Noora Louhimo, Battle Beast, I know you did an analysis but these "tutorials" help see how to safely obtain similar technique from a professional perspective
@@christiancarter7563 Same boat. I practiced fry so much before attempting false cord that my false cords now seem to naturally want to close whenever I push into a scream. I'm hoping that I can soon feel this natural when toggling between open and closed.
@@assuntaboothe4093 Tatiana puts a lot of men to shame! While there is an obscene amount of difference between the quality of her sound and mine, I do feel that her level will be achievable with years of persistent practice and experimentation. Keep at it!
@Travis Fodrie After watching this, I have decided to switch my focus to false cord screaming. I really struggle with fry screaming because I have a hard time closing my throat. With my previous training, I naturally keep my throat open. So, I believe fry screaming could be a bit easier if I can false cord down first.
I guess I struggle with doing this without it tickling or irritating my vocal cords and causing a cough. I am a professional vocalist but I primarily sing with belts, mixed voice.....I just want to learn to do this
Please Mary, go and activate the automatic subtitules in all your videos so we, the non-native english speakers could understand your wisdom better 🙏 Thank you!!
Hello! You have very professional reactions, so I recommend a very unusual singer for vocal analysis: Diana Ankudinova, 15 years old, "Wicked games". I think you will be extremely surprised.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!! I started watching your videos almost a year ago and have grown so much as a harsh vocalist (have my diploma in classical voice and have been classically trained for 14 years). I have been breaking my brain trying to fry scream but the false cord growl is just what I’m able to do at this point. I practice alongside a lot of Jinjer tracks and have wondered why everyone says that Tati uses just fry screams but my growls still sound a lot like hers. YOU LITERALLY JUST SAVED ME FROM MY OWN BRAIN AND MY FEELINGS OF LIMITATION. Thank you so much for what you do. I hope to be able to afford a Skype lesson with you one day 💙💜
💕💕 So glad to be of help and don’t forget that lots of really good screamers can “only” false cord - I tell people not to obsess over chasing the fry too much - I also could only do false cord for many years before fry - Google my earlier band, Luna Mortis the screaming is all false cord, also look at Angela Gossow-era Arch Enemy, and Once Human, all false cord only 🤘🤘
VoiceHacks Thank you! 💙💜 I have definitely heard you say in videos to not obsess over chasing the fry, but I also am very hard on myself 😅 I feel like many of us trained vocalists don’t like the concept of not being able to master things. But truth be told I loooove a false cord scream in comparison to fry! Angela Gossow was the first female I ever heard do a death growl (circa 2008) so she is a huge inspiration. I also looked into Luna Mortis when I started watching your videos 🤘 I will have to look into Once Human though! Thank you once again you lovely human 💜😊💙
Yes it is more updated to actually use the words “vestibular folds” instead of “false cords”, however, this is not what the average person is googling or searching for and using the more common, “false cords” is just more relatable and searchable to the audience. That being said people barely spell “cord” right as well 😆
I'm confused, Mary Z! I could swear you've already made some reaction video about Tatiana's vocals some time ago where you said she was using fry...Then explained her physical uniqueness which lets her go deep in sounding. I've watched a lot of her lives and the duration she's able to sustain the harsh notes together with transitions from clean vocals led to an understanding, that she's totally using fry scream, please prove me wrong:D
I was incorrect! After teaching a bunch of clients her songs it became really apparent to me that it’s false cord - sometimes I get it wrong! But upon a closer look and spending more time it’s definitely false cord - I did take the video down because I realized it wasn’t right
Watched some studio work of hers, some lives, read some interviews as well and it's getting obvious that it is false cord! It looks as a master level in operating it tho, this girl is one of a kind. Thanks, Mary, for eyes opening 🖤
I honestly thought that Tatiana used a lower registered fry scream! Personally I have trouble with false cord and I am most comfortable with fry, so I may stand corrected.
@@voicehacks does that go for her higher screams as well? E.g. Judgment and Punishment. She has a lot of mid/high screams that sound more like Randy Blythe who does exclusively fry I believe.
Most of the nonmetal vocal coaches on RU-vid actually have good attitudes about Tatiana's growls. They will tell you that they don't know much about how she achieves it, but that it seems to be healthy for her since she's able to get back to her clean vocals with ease and without signs of any damage.
Indeed. The younger ones seem more open to it. There was one opera singer who just graduated from Juilliard who was thoroughly shocked and impressed. She had to look up stuff about the technique on the internet immediately! She's just getting into metal in general through viewer recommendations and she's really enjoying the ride so far.
Im blown away this is false cord! For the longest time I thought I could only fry but her style comes rather easy to me. No wonder it feels different compared to what I typically do!
Metal vocalists figure it out! Its just roaring! There is a reason for the false chord the same thing used by cats big cats cattle dogs(bark) hirses alpaccas kangaroos pigs bears ect ect ect its not a skill its more natural than a talking voice! We all grunt n growl when we are pissed off that is the primal growl and with a full burst its a roar And humans have one of the most grizzly roars on the planet
Amazing to see the imaging!!! I’ve learned an insurmountably astonishing amount from you about my own cords, what they’re doing and how to eventually with much practice control them ❤️
Ahh finally! I’m already able to do vocals like hers but I’d love to understand the why better 😁 Your channel was the first to teach me to scream tho 🤘
@@stoneshack2000 If you go to my youtube page I have a couple clips but not many. Most of what I post is on facebook. Here's a link to me singing a clip of the Pisces song if thats what you are looking for tho. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-erDDZ7zjsT0.html
@@eternalwizard776 Just listened to your video Mandi, I'm so impressed. You really really are awesome. and you are stunningly beautiful also, thanks again..by the way I just saw your cover of death grip, wow!!!
jim thank you! I only started learning harsh vocals last October so less than a year ago but you can thank Mary’s videos for most of it! Fry screams are what came first for me 😅
Does it matter? The points are all the same. That's what she likes like when she songs harsh vocals. It's a good demonstration. And it's the video that introduces so many people to Jinjer.